Hi:

Depends oun how you want to live....................... My step dad
fished a 58' wood dragger built in 1912 was repowerd
with a 6-71 in the early 50s (of course). F/V Madaline J. was a great
boat. Last I heard she was in the SF, CA area.

First, they are wood and live& last by breathing. Everything inside
will be much damper than a plastic boat. Your bread will smell like
disel. So your clothing and hair. Every thing will smell like boat! In
th pacific northwest (PNW) I can buy a 24'-40' wood salmon boat for
about $5,000-12,000. Most will have a 53 series Jimmy and were built
in 1930s -1950s. Excellent sea boats but, no mo fish so no mo use.
Would I buy one for a liveaboard???? U got 2 b nuts! Better live under
a bridge..... in the winter.... in a cardboard box...... Beside who
you going to get to replace planks, stems, and sister the ribs?

Plastic fantastic . Come on Barbie Lets go Pardy....................
Bob

Jeff wrote:


Their current boat is a 41 foot glass
boat, which they bought pretty cheap but has probably gone up in value
with all the work that's gone into it.

That'll be the day.

* Paul Cassel wrote, On 3/6/2007 8:36 PM:
Jeff wrote:


Their current boat is a 41 foot glass boat, which they bought pretty
cheap but has probably gone up in value with all the work that's gone
into it.

That'll be the day.

There are several comparables on Soundings and Yachtworld, asking
prices ranging from $42K to $86K. They paid well under the low end of
that, thought they probably had that much in before they moved
onboard. The boat is in very good condition now, and they could
certainly ask near the high end. These are folks who raise cash by
doing boat work, mainly canvas, varnish, and mechanicals while
traveling. Their previous boat went for about 20% more then they paid
for it after they lived on it for 15 years.

My last boat I sold for about 2% less than I paid for it 8 years
earlier. Had I been willing to hold out, I probably could have made a
profit, but I had no desire to own two boats at once! I won't be so
lucky on my current boat, since I bought her new

There are still many boat made of wood along the coast of Maine. Last
summer, a traditional plank on frame yacht was launched not far from me.

No doubt a wooden boat requires more work. That is true.

If I were to look at a wooden boat, I would first look at the basics.
General condition. Rot. Type of wood construction. A strip plank
construction is easy to saturate with epoxy.

Unless the boat is beautiful, you should not offer much for it. The
insurance will be prohibitive.

What skills do you have? Are you a woodworker? Have you ever worked on a
wooden boat? Do you know about fastenings, rot, dead wood, keel, etc etc?

I saw an old wooden sailing boat that was for sail and she was in top notch
condition. Strip plank construction. Lots of epoxy saturation. Good paint
job. Updated engine, etc. She was beautiful. But even the owner told me
she was a lot of work. He loved her and hated her at the same time.

Another thing .. where are you planning on sailing? In the hot sun of
Florida, the decks, hull, everything starts to open up.

==========

I think you should move toward steel if you want affordable. Might not be
as pretty, but a simple metal hull can hold up.




"biz" wrote in message
...
Hi group

OK, now I've exhausted my search around usenet and the wider web for
information on this topic I thought I'd post for some fresh thoughts and
ideas.

I'm considering buying a wooden boat as a liveaboard, and I have some
major concerns. Almost everyone I come across - surveyors, brokers,
finance houses, insurance companies, usenet posters - seems to balk at it
to lesser or greater degrees. It seems established that they require
regular and vigilant maintenance. I don't want to buy a money pit, and
two marinas I've come across are so fed up with people abandoning wooden
boats they won't allow them. Any thoughts on this?

I've been quoted GBP950 (about $1800) for a survey on the hard, and the
surveyor will do an initial walk-through to see if it's worth going ahead
even to that stage. It's 45 feet long, and is carvel constructed. I don't
yet know the year or specific hull material. The beams are about 2" x 2".
I'm going to go along tomorrow and try to have as many of the floorboards
up as possible so that I can go through with a bradawl and check for
sponginess.

Think I should not risk it and try and find myself a nice tongue in
cheekeasy/ steel-shell?

Biz

On Mar 6, 7:03 pm, "NE Sailboat" wrote:



A strip plank
construction is easy to saturate with epoxy.
Strip plank construction. Lots of epoxy saturation. Good paint
job. Updated engine, etc. She was beautiful. But even the owner told me
she was a lot of work. He loved her and hated her at the same time.

What do you mean by "...strip plank construction... with lots of epoxy
saturation....?" I know of carvel and a couple others...... When I
think of a wood boat it does not include epoxy. Ugh, now you have a
plastic boat with wood fibers instead of glass fibers. Do you mean
"cold molding?" Strips of ceadar held together with epoxy that hang
over a firplace? In my humble opinion a wood boat is held together
with bronze and craftmanship................. Arg !
Okay, okay............... I'll go with double hot dipped galvanized.
good enough for a workboat.
Steam Box Bob

On Mar 6, 6:11 pm, Jeff wrote:
* Paul Cassel wrote, On 3/6/2007 8:36 PM:

Jeff wrote:
Their current boat is a 41 foot glass boat, which they bought pretty
cheap but has probably gone up in value with all the work that's gone
into it.

That'll be the day.

Agreed!

Any hidden, I mean not considered, costs?

My last boat I sold for about 2% less than I paid for it 8 years
earlier. Had I been willing to hold out, I probably could have made a
profit,

Lets see, just looking at inflation at 3% per year...... x 8 years =
24%
Looks like you lost 22% of your original "investment" just in
inflation. Now add ANY yard bill and that Christmas gift for the boat.
And your time is billed at $65/hour? Oh, I forgot, youre time is
worthless cause working on a boat is a labor of love........... Trust
me I would much rather be drinking a beer, sailing, or boning the guys
girlfriend two sllips down than adding more toxic chemicals to my
body.

Love is blind.......... and so are boat owners. espeically the ones
with a dream.

Bob wrote:
On Mar 6, 7:03 pm, "NE Sailboat" wrote:



A strip plank
construction is easy to saturate with epoxy.
Strip plank construction. Lots of epoxy saturation. Good paint
job. Updated engine, etc. She was beautiful. But even the owner
told me she was a lot of work. He loved her and hated her at the
same time.

What do you mean by "...strip plank construction... with lots of epoxy
saturation....?" I know of carvel and a couple others...... When I
think of a wood boat it does not include epoxy. Ugh, now you have a
plastic boat with wood fibers instead of glass fibers. Do you mean
"cold molding?" Strips of ceadar held together with epoxy that hang
over a firplace? In my humble opinion a wood boat is held together
with bronze and craftmanship................. Arg !
Okay, okay............... I'll go with double hot dipped galvanized.
good enough for a workboat.
Steam Box Bob

Different people mean different things by "strip planking".

Here in the UK it refers to the method used by the East German boatbuilders
when they built so many folkboats in the 1960's-1970's. Also Borrensen of
Denmark when he built those beautiful Dragon Class yachts around the same
period.

AFAIR, the hull consisted of oak or ash frames, 2" by 2", shaped or
laminated, and set at fairly frequent intervals. Narrow strip planking,
usually mahogany, and about 1/2" by 1", was used to cover the framework and
was nailed, using silicon-bronze barbed nails inserted vertically, i.e.
nailing the planks into the previously nailed plank. The planks were
fastened to the frames using silicon-bronze screws, plugged and glued to
match the planking. I am not sure if glue was used along the seams, but the
result was a much tighter and neater finish that traditional carvel
construction. The planks were very narrow, and the finish was varnished, and
impeccable. There was no caulking.

The Folkboat sold in vast quantities in the UK, and many are still sailing.
The cost was around £4500 for a complete sailboat with all equipment. The
Borrensen Dragon was the ultimate in appearance and construction and cost
around £7500 all up. Times have changed!

There is no problem maintaining a wooden boat so long as you don't want to
sail it!

Dennis.

* Bob wrote, On 3/7/2007 1:44 AM:
On Mar 6, 6:11 pm, Jeff wrote:
* Paul Cassel wrote, On 3/6/2007 8:36 PM:

Jeff wrote:
Their current boat is a 41 foot glass boat, which they bought pretty
cheap but has probably gone up in value with all the work that's gone
into it.

That'll be the day.

Agreed!

There are lots of cases of boats given a lot of TLC going up in value.
Its not likely to happen with me, but it does with a few. What's
not clear is whether you actually "earn" at a reasonable rate while
working on your own boat.


Any hidden, I mean not considered, costs?

Sure plenty, but that wasn't really the point.


My last boat I sold for about 2% less than I paid for it 8 years
earlier. Had I been willing to hold out, I probably could have made a
profit,

Lets see, just looking at inflation at 3% per year...... x 8 years =
24%

Again, not the point. The point is that with virtually no hull work,
and a little bit of engine work I was able to continue using the boat,
and then sell it for good money.

Looks like you lost 22% of your original "investment" just in
inflation. Now add ANY yard bill and that Christmas gift for the boat.
And your time is billed at $65/hour? Oh, I forgot, youre time is
worthless cause working on a boat is a labor of love........... Trust
me I would much rather be drinking a beer, sailing, or boning the guys
girlfriend two sllips down than adding more toxic chemicals to my
body.

Unfortunately, I can't afford to own a cruising boat unless I do the
bulk of the work. It was a bit different before I retired, but its
been six years since anyone else has done any work on her. This
Spring I'll have someone do the SailDrive seals because my yard won't
let me do that, and in the Fall I'll have a rigger pull the mast, but
that should do it for a few more years.

However, doing the bottom on my boat is a few hours of prep and a few
hours of nasty work. And I can skip a year every now and then. Even
If I had to pay, it wouldn't be that much money. Dealing with the
bottom of a wooden boat would be a lot more expensive, and woe be to
the poor soul that tries to skimp.


Love is blind.......... and so are boat owners. espeically the ones
with a dream.

There's no doubt that there are a lot of hidden costs that make a boat
a bad investment, compared to real estate. The point, however, is
that with a glass boat a minimal amount of care will keep the boat
viable and it becomes reasonable to spend money on improvements, etc.
With a wooden boat, a year or two of neglect, even unintentional,
could mean the total loss of the investment. Live on a glass boat for
ten years and you could probably stay on it for another ten or you can
get some money out of it. Live on a wooden boat and you might find
yourself with nothing.

Wood strip construction is strips of wood, say 2" by 2" which is screwed
together as it is assembled on the frame of the boat. The strips are also
screwed to the frame. Because you are using smaller pieces of wood than
carvel, no bending [ not much anyway ] and the strips are butted tight, so
no big seams to fill.

Check out the West System site. When Gougen [ spelling?? ] first got
started in epoxy, I believe they used the epoxy with strip plank.


"When I think of a wood boat it does not include epoxy. Ugh, now you have a
plastic boat with wood fibers instead of glass fibers. Do you mean "cold
molding?" ".

I am no expert but I think cold molding uses larger wood such as a plywood
layed across another piece of wood.

To your statement about epoxy and wood .. and the Ugh word.

Do you paint your wood? Would you paint your wood if you have a wood boat?

Epoxy is a good covering, better than paint. Both seal and protect. Epoxy
does it better.

Building a boat is similar to other building products. The builder uses
readily available material to build with.

Strip plank is a very good method of construction, popular with the home
builder.

I think you need to do some reading on wooden boats. Your ignorance of the
subject is evident.

============



"Bob" wrote in message
ps.com...
On Mar 6, 7:03 pm, "NE Sailboat" wrote:



A strip plank
construction is easy to saturate with epoxy.
Strip plank construction. Lots of epoxy saturation. Good paint
job. Updated engine, etc. She was beautiful. But even the owner told
me
she was a lot of work. He loved her and hated her at the same time.

What do you mean by "...strip plank construction... with lots of epoxy
saturation....?" I know of carvel and a couple others...... When I
think of a wood boat it does not include epoxy. Ugh, now you have a
plastic boat with wood fibers instead of glass fibers. Do you mean
"cold molding?" Strips of ceadar held together with epoxy that hang
over a firplace? In my humble opinion a wood boat is held together
with bronze and craftmanship................. Arg !
Okay, okay............... I'll go with double hot dipped galvanized.
good enough for a workboat.
Steam Box Bob

Jeff, any boat which is neglected will soon start to show it.

There are many very beautiful wooden boats still afloat.

I think the issue here is the HULL. Since that is the part that sits in the
water and takes the most abuse.

If was a very rich person, I would get one of the cold molded yachts built
for me. And I would have wood decks, lots of teack, etc.

But .............. poor as a church mouse so ...... plastic.. lots of
plastic.


"Jeff" wrote in message
. ..
* Bob wrote, On 3/7/2007 1:44 AM:
On Mar 6, 6:11 pm, Jeff wrote:
* Paul Cassel wrote, On 3/6/2007 8:36 PM:

Jeff wrote:
Their current boat is a 41 foot glass boat, which they bought pretty
cheap but has probably gone up in value with all the work that's gone
into it.

That'll be the day.

Agreed!

There are lots of cases of boats given a lot of TLC going up in value. Its
not likely to happen with me, but it does with a few. What's not clear is
whether you actually "earn" at a reasonable rate while working on your own
boat.


Any hidden, I mean not considered, costs?

Sure plenty, but that wasn't really the point.


My last boat I sold for about 2% less than I paid for it 8 years
earlier. Had I been willing to hold out, I probably could have made a
profit,

Lets see, just looking at inflation at 3% per year...... x 8 years =
24%

Again, not the point. The point is that with virtually no hull work, and
a little bit of engine work I was able to continue using the boat, and
then sell it for good money.

Looks like you lost 22% of your original "investment" just in
inflation. Now add ANY yard bill and that Christmas gift for the boat.
And your time is billed at $65/hour? Oh, I forgot, youre time is
worthless cause working on a boat is a labor of love........... Trust
me I would much rather be drinking a beer, sailing, or boning the guys
girlfriend two sllips down than adding more toxic chemicals to my
body.

Unfortunately, I can't afford to own a cruising boat unless I do the bulk
of the work. It was a bit different before I retired, but its been six
years since anyone else has done any work on her. This Spring I'll have
someone do the SailDrive seals because my yard won't let me do that, and
in the Fall I'll have a rigger pull the mast, but that should do it for a
few more years.

However, doing the bottom on my boat is a few hours of prep and a few
hours of nasty work. And I can skip a year every now and then. Even If I
had to pay, it wouldn't be that much money. Dealing with the bottom of a
wooden boat would be a lot more expensive, and woe be to the poor soul
that tries to skimp.


Love is blind.......... and so are boat owners. espeically the ones
with a dream.

There's no doubt that there are a lot of hidden costs that make a boat a
bad investment, compared to real estate. The point, however, is that with
a glass boat a minimal amount of care will keep the boat viable and it
becomes reasonable to spend money on improvements, etc. With a wooden
boat, a year or two of neglect, even unintentional, could mean the total
loss of the investment. Live on a glass boat for ten years and you could
probably stay on it for another ten or you can get some money out of it.
Live on a wooden boat and you might find yourself with nothing.