biz inscribed in red ink for all to know:
Hi group

OK, now I've exhausted my search around usenet and the wider web for
information on this topic I thought I'd post for some fresh thoughts and
ideas.

I'm considering buying a wooden boat as a liveaboard, and I have some
major concerns. Almost everyone I come across - surveyors, brokers,
finance houses, insurance companies, usenet posters - seems to balk at
it to lesser or greater degrees. It seems established that they require
regular and vigilant maintenance. I don't want to buy a money pit, and
two marinas I've come across are so fed up with people abandoning wooden
boats they won't allow them. Any thoughts on this?

I've been quoted GBP950 (about $1800) for a survey on the hard, and the
surveyor will do an initial walk-through to see if it's worth going
ahead even to that stage. It's 45 feet long, and is carvel constructed.
I don't yet know the year or specific hull material. The beams are
about 2" x 2". I'm going to go along tomorrow and try to have as many
of the floorboards up as possible so that I can go through with a
bradawl and check for sponginess.

Think I should not risk it and try and find myself a nice tongue in
cheekeasy/ steel-shell?

Biz

If you are interested in learning and applying the craft of wooden boat
building, you can have a very nice boat for surprisingly little initial
outlay.

But others have made the point: You had best be ready to do the work..
there will be a lot of it. Wooden boats want very much to turn back
into mulch. It will be your responsibility to stay ahead of this process.

All that taken into consideration, a well cared for wooden boat is
truely a thing of beauty...

bob
s/v Eolian (fiberglass)
Seattle

On Mar 7, 6:10 am, "NE Sailboat" wrote:
Wood strip construction is strips of wood, say 2" by 2" which is screwed
together as it is assembled on the frame of the boat. The strips are also
screwed to the frame. Because you are using smaller pieces of wood than
carvel, no bending [ not much anyway ] and the strips are butted tight, so
no big seams to fill.

is this what some people call "Lap Strake"


Check out the West System site. When Gougen [ spelling?? ] first got
started in epoxy, I believe they used the epoxy with strip plank.

Yes, good book . I bought one in 1982.


I am no expert but I think cold molding uses larger wood such as a plywood
layed across another piece of wood.

that is one way. the G bros describe using cedar vener about 4"x 1/8"
Basically making your own plywood.

then there is what I hear called strip construction. common on a canoe


To your statement about epoxy and wood .. and the Ugh word.
Do you paint your wood? Would you paint your wood if you have a wood boat?

just the outside. on my old sprit sailed swampscott sailing dory
(Chappell) I used turpintine-linsed oil- pine tar.

Epoxy is a good covering, better than paint. Both seal and protect. Epoxy
does it better.

now that statment opens a can of worms im sure some would debate. It
all about intended use.


I think you need to do some reading on wooden boats. Your ignorance of the
subject is evident.

My dear poster. Did i call you ignorant? Did i even suggest that you
were stupid?

Diffrent regions use similar words to describe diffrent things. in
this case boat construction.

from my humble experince I would use epoxy on a plywood bottom. But
never on a 58' carvel planked bottom.
but I guess you forgot to detemine what we were actually talking about
before deciding to call me ignorant.

GFY

Bob .. strip plank is Strip Plank ..

No, it is not lap stake.

Seriously,, if you don't know the difference between a strip plank and lap
stake constructed wooden boat ...

Your not ignorant, just uninformed about wooden boats.

=========================================
"Bob" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Mar 7, 6:10 am, "NE Sailboat" wrote:
Wood strip construction is strips of wood, say 2" by 2" which is screwed
together as it is assembled on the frame of the boat. The strips are
also
screwed to the frame. Because you are using smaller pieces of wood than
carvel, no bending [ not much anyway ] and the strips are butted tight,
so
no big seams to fill.

is this what some people call "Lap Strake"


Check out the West System site. When Gougen [ spelling?? ] first got
started in epoxy, I believe they used the epoxy with strip plank.

Yes, good book . I bought one in 1982.


I am no expert but I think cold molding uses larger wood such as a
plywood
layed across another piece of wood.

that is one way. the G bros describe using cedar vener about 4"x 1/8"
Basically making your own plywood.

then there is what I hear called strip construction. common on a canoe


To your statement about epoxy and wood .. and the Ugh word.
Do you paint your wood? Would you paint your wood if you have a wood
boat?

just the outside. on my old sprit sailed swampscott sailing dory
(Chappell) I used turpintine-linsed oil- pine tar.

Epoxy is a good covering, better than paint. Both seal and protect.
Epoxy
does it better.

now that statment opens a can of worms im sure some would debate. It
all about intended use.


I think you need to do some reading on wooden boats. Your ignorance of
the
subject is evident.

My dear poster. Did i call you ignorant? Did i even suggest that you
were stupid?

Diffrent regions use similar words to describe diffrent things. in
this case boat construction.

from my humble experince I would use epoxy on a plywood bottom. But
never on a 58' carvel planked bottom.
but I guess you forgot to detemine what we were actually talking about
before deciding to call me ignorant.

GFY

Spelling .. ?? Morgan, you old pirate...

==============================


"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 21:58:42 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:

Bob .. strip plank is Strip Plank ..

No, it is not lap stake.

Seriously,, if you don't know the difference between a strip plank and lap
stake constructed wooden boat ...

Your not ignorant, just uninformed about wooden boats.


Speaking of ignorant... Its LAP STRAKE, which Bob seems to know, and you
don't.

CWM

No, it is not lap stake.

Im no expert but I think cold molding uses larger wood such as a plywood
layed across another piece of wood.

No, I think that is not correct. So do I get to call you ignorant or
stupid?

Seriously,, if you don't know the difference between a strip plank and lap
stake constructed wooden boat ...

SInce you are so set at criticizing instead of understanding I am
going to assume you are simply an arogant ass. The correct term is
STRAKE and not stake as you use. I have a like for your enlightment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strake

You are also wrong about cold mold method as discribed by the G. Bros.

Now about your "strip planking." I under stand the process. It was
your vague use of the term and your other ignorant statments that lead
me to believe you simply had a novice understand of strip plank
construction methods. Yes, taking 2"x2" chunks of wood and fastening
to one another by side nailing is an old Recreational Small Home Build
method. Then with recent improvments, ie epoxy saturation, it is
possible to incapsulate the whole thing............. That is where I
stop and say that is not a wood boat. It is a boat made of, not GRP,
rather Wood Reinforced Epoxy. Saturating wood such as cedar and red
wood is not in my opinion a wood boat. It sure do look pretty as a 17'
canoa on top of your Subaru Outback though.

Hell you can use foam, cardboard, plywood, veners, C-Flex, and stucko
on chicken wire then slop epoxy over it all. I would not call that a
wood boat either.

But I think what ****ed me off more was your asumption that I was
ignorant simply when I was attempting to understand your use of the
phrase "strip planking"

Your not ignorant, just uninformed about wooden boats.

So excuse me for having a westcoast vocabulary and a desire to
understand your developing maritime language skills.
In other words............... Arg ! that aint no wood boat Dick.
GFY

Bob,

If a boat is built of 12,000 pounds of wood and 1000 pounds of epoxy, what
would you call it?

Wooden Boat, says I. The epoxy cannot fully saturate the wood if it's more
than perhaps an 1/8 inch thick and quite porous to begin with (end-grain
balsa and the like excepted, but then how many boats are built butcher-block
style?).

It ain't steel, it ain't ferro, it ain't GRP, it ain't aluminum (or even
al-you-minnee-um). It's wood, sealed, laminated, and/or otherwise
incorporating epoxy and/or fiberglass into its composition.

Karin

"Bob" wrote in message
ups.com...
No, it is not lap stake.

Im no expert but I think cold molding uses larger wood such as a plywood
layed across another piece of wood.

No, I think that is not correct. So do I get to call you ignorant or
stupid?

Seriously,, if you don't know the difference between a strip plank and lap
stake constructed wooden boat ...

SInce you are so set at criticizing instead of understanding I am
going to assume you are simply an arogant ass. The correct term is
STRAKE and not stake as you use. I have a like for your enlightment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strake

You are also wrong about cold mold method as discribed by the G. Bros.

Now about your "strip planking." I under stand the process. It was
your vague use of the term and your other ignorant statments that lead
me to believe you simply had a novice understand of strip plank
construction methods. Yes, taking 2"x2" chunks of wood and fastening
to one another by side nailing is an old Recreational Small Home Build
method. Then with recent improvments, ie epoxy saturation, it is
possible to incapsulate the whole thing............. That is where I
stop and say that is not a wood boat. It is a boat made of, not GRP,
rather Wood Reinforced Epoxy. Saturating wood such as cedar and red
wood is not in my opinion a wood boat. It sure do look pretty as a 17'
canoa on top of your Subaru Outback though.

Hell you can use foam, cardboard, plywood, veners, C-Flex, and stucko
on chicken wire then slop epoxy over it all. I would not call that a
wood boat either.

But I think what ****ed me off more was your asumption that I was
ignorant simply when I was attempting to understand your use of the
phrase "strip planking"

Your not ignorant, just uninformed about wooden boats.

So excuse me for having a westcoast vocabulary and a desire to
understand your developing maritime language skills.
In other words............... Arg ! that aint no wood boat Dick.
GFY

KLC .. there are still lots of wooden boats, both sail and power, up where I
keep my boat.

Years ago, I almost bought a wooden sloop. Built by Bud McIntosh up near
Dover, NH as I recall.

I backed off after the survey. Had rot in the transom.

Well, last spring ................ yup. There she was "The Toddy ll".

And she was still beautiful. She needed some TLC but there is just
something about a wood boat.

Strip plank boats are rather easy to build. Hard to repair though. With
the new epoxy's, I'd build a strip plank boat in a heart beat.

I don't know much about the cold molded boats. My teacher at my Power
Squadron course said they are very sweet. He used to own a Hinkley. If he
thinks they are sweet ;;;;;;;;;;;; they are sweet.

I was told the other day that a couple of boat builders down east will build
the hull for a customer and they the owner gets to finish her.

Using strip plank and lots of epoxy .. bet one could get a very nice hull.

Bob has that fever .. wood boat fever. This can be a very dangerous
condition.

Bob ,, if you are reading ... I know of a wooden sloop built in the early
1950's that is for sale. You would not know it to look at her, that is for
sure.

There is another beauty down east which is owned by a minister that I've
seen. She is spectacular. And she is strip plank with lots of epoxy.

The minister loves her, he just can't keep up with her and the flock at the
same time.

If wood is what you want .. go for it.

Just don't tell yourself that we are exagerating about the work involved.

It is ................ hours .................... and hours
..................... and hours ................. of work to keep up a wood
boat.

And .. if it is done right ?

Worth every minute.



"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
et...
Bob,

If a boat is built of 12,000 pounds of wood and 1000 pounds of epoxy, what
would you call it?

Wooden Boat, says I. The epoxy cannot fully saturate the wood if it's more
than perhaps an 1/8 inch thick and quite porous to begin with (end-grain
balsa and the like excepted, but then how many boats are built
butcher-block style?).

It ain't steel, it ain't ferro, it ain't GRP, it ain't aluminum (or even
al-you-minnee-um). It's wood, sealed, laminated, and/or otherwise
incorporating epoxy and/or fiberglass into its composition.

Karin

"Bob" wrote in message
ups.com...
No, it is not lap stake.

Im no expert but I think cold molding uses larger wood such as a plywood
layed across another piece of wood.

No, I think that is not correct. So do I get to call you ignorant or
stupid?

Seriously,, if you don't know the difference between a strip plank and
lap
stake constructed wooden boat ...

SInce you are so set at criticizing instead of understanding I am
going to assume you are simply an arogant ass. The correct term is
STRAKE and not stake as you use. I have a like for your enlightment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strake

You are also wrong about cold mold method as discribed by the G. Bros.

Now about your "strip planking." I under stand the process. It was
your vague use of the term and your other ignorant statments that lead
me to believe you simply had a novice understand of strip plank
construction methods. Yes, taking 2"x2" chunks of wood and fastening
to one another by side nailing is an old Recreational Small Home Build
method. Then with recent improvments, ie epoxy saturation, it is
possible to incapsulate the whole thing............. That is where I
stop and say that is not a wood boat. It is a boat made of, not GRP,
rather Wood Reinforced Epoxy. Saturating wood such as cedar and red
wood is not in my opinion a wood boat. It sure do look pretty as a 17'
canoa on top of your Subaru Outback though.

Hell you can use foam, cardboard, plywood, veners, C-Flex, and stucko
on chicken wire then slop epoxy over it all. I would not call that a
wood boat either.

But I think what ****ed me off more was your asumption that I was
ignorant simply when I was attempting to understand your use of the
phrase "strip planking"

Your not ignorant, just uninformed about wooden boats.

So excuse me for having a westcoast vocabulary and a desire to
understand your developing maritime language skills.
In other words............... Arg ! that aint no wood boat Dick.
GFY

"NE Sailboat" wrote in message
news:HuKHh.1566$pi.707@trndny09...
KLC .. there are still lots of wooden boats, both sail and power, up where
I keep my boat.

Years ago, I almost bought a wooden sloop. Built by Bud McIntosh up near
Dover, NH as I recall.

I backed off after the survey. Had rot in the transom.

Well, last spring ................ yup. There she was "The Toddy ll".

And she was still beautiful. She needed some TLC but there is just
something about a wood boat.

Strip plank boats are rather easy to build. Hard to repair though. With
the new epoxy's, I'd build a strip plank boat in a heart beat.

I don't know much about the cold molded boats. My teacher at my Power
Squadron course said they are very sweet. He used to own a Hinkley. If
he thinks they are sweet ;;;;;;;;;;;; they are sweet.

I was told the other day that a couple of boat builders down east will
build the hull for a customer and they the owner gets to finish her.

Using strip plank and lots of epoxy .. bet one could get a very nice hull.

Bob has that fever .. wood boat fever. This can be a very dangerous
condition.

Bob ,, if you are reading ... I know of a wooden sloop built in the early
1950's that is for sale. You would not know it to look at her, that is
for sure.

There is another beauty down east which is owned by a minister that I've
seen. She is spectacular. And she is strip plank with lots of epoxy.

The minister loves her, he just can't keep up with her and the flock at
the same time.

If wood is what you want .. go for it.

Just don't tell yourself that we are exagerating about the work involved.

It is ................ hours .................... and hours
.................... and hours ................. of work to keep up a wood
boat.

And .. if it is done right ?

Worth every minute.


Back in 93 or so when we were looking for our first boat, we found a wooden
schooner up in Alameda by the name of "Manu Re-re" ("flying bird).
Magnificent boat, I fell in love with her immediately. About 34 feet on deck
IIRC, plus bowsprit and boomkin for a LOA of around 40'. She was born in
1959, giving me an immediate affinity for her as we shared birth years. Two
deck houses, tiller, tops'l, gaff rig...she was a beauty. But she needed
refastening, my husband hated the tiller and refused to consider a wooden
boat, and so we passed her by for a CT-41 that ended up having such rot in
her deckhouse that we had to completely rebuild it.

In the end, we may well have been ahead to have bought Manu Re-re. I want a
do-over! lol

On Mar 7, 5:02 pm, "KLC Lewis" wrote:
Bob,

If a boat is built of 12,000 pounds of wood and 1000 pounds of epoxy, what
would you call it?

Thank you for a question instead of useing this as an oportunity for a
slap down. For me, and this is only a very personal opinion although
shared by a few others, I would call that 12K boat: a bunch of wood
cobbled and stuck together with glue. I certainly would not call it a
wood boat. For me, and I must stress the word me, a wood boat is just
that.... wood..... wood that breaths. Wood when areas of operation,
intended use, availible resourses determine materials, design, and
craftmanship.

For me a wood boat is mechanicaly fastned not held together with glue
and embalmed with plastic.

A wood boat alows mosture to migrate in and out. And when not doing
what a boat does best: float in water. Will shrink and start to pull
appart.......... just enough to calk the seams again. That is if it is
a carvel type, what the Limys call a clinker, and not a lap strake
design.

Call a vessel made with a 12:1 ration of wood to epoxy a wood boat as
well as call thoes Pergo Floors... Wood Floors. Just be cause its
shinny and the picture looks like wood dont make it so. In fact lets
just callem what they are......... Pergo boats. You heard it here
first!

Hey NE Sailboat, when ya gonna get that nice pergo boat in the water
before she starts to pull apart? What, oh thats right plastic dont
shrink do it.

Bob
Owner of a 26,000lb GRP boat. As seen in Clasic Plastic.
And loving every blister shes got.

ups my typo............

carvel is similar to strip plank
lapstrake is same as Limy Clinker

Darn, never thought i would ever get so heated over something as bland
as the definition of wood. I guess times have changed.
Bob