* biz wrote, On 3/8/2007 6:23 PM:
Just a thought, but is the horrific amount of work on wooden boats
people keep talking about because their experiences have involved
maintaining varnished wood? I mean the boat I'm considering has no bare
wood at all. The superstructure is all made from ply and painted
several coats of battleship grey!

I know a few wooden dinghy owners who spend a lot of time sanding and
varnishing their dinghies, but surely if you just slap a load of paint
all over it that's lower maintenance than keeping up the healthy
polished wooden look? My boat in question is certainly not going to be
a great example of beautiful wood.

It sounds like you don't want a wooden boat because of the aesthetics,
but to save money. So how much do you figure you'll save?

Jeff wrote:

It sounds like you don't want a wooden boat because of the aesthetics,
but to save money. So how much do you figure you'll save?

OK, let's do some sums:

Wooden boat:

boat: 12k
survey: 1k
haul-out: 0.3k
initial work: 3k
TOTAL initial outlay: 16.3k
Annual haul-out: 0.3k
Annual work: 3k
Annual insurance: 0.5k
Annual loan repayment: 4.5k
TOTAL annual cost: 8k

End of 3 year loan have asset worth 12k.

GRP/steel boat:

boat: 30k
survey: 0.4k
haul-out: 0.3k
initial work: 0.5k
TOTAL initial outlay: 31.2k
Annual haul-out: 0.1k
Annual work: 1k
Annual insurance: 0.3k
Annual loan repayment: 4.5k
TOTAL annual cost: 5.9k

End of 3 years, have 30% stake in a 30k boat, 7 years left on mortgage.

Figures seem fair? sorry, all these are in pounds sterling. Roughly
double the numbers for $, isn't it these days?

biz inscribed in red ink for all to know:
RW Salnick wrote:

But others have made the point: You had best be ready to do the
work.. there will be a lot of it. Wooden boats want very much to
turn back into mulch. It will be your responsibility to stay ahead of
this process.

All that taken into consideration, a well cared for wooden boat is
truely a thing of beauty...


Thanks for that Bob

Just a thought, but is the horrific amount of work on wooden boats
people keep talking about because their experiences have involved
maintaining varnished wood? I mean the boat I'm considering has no bare
wood at all. The superstructure is all made from ply and painted
several coats of battleship grey!

I know a few wooden dinghy owners who spend a lot of time sanding and
varnishing their dinghies, but surely if you just slap a load of paint
all over it that's lower maintenance than keeping up the healthy
polished wooden look? My boat in question is certainly not going to be
a great example of beautiful wood.


No, the work I am referring to is staying ahead of rot. Any place where
fresh water can get to the wood will eventually rot. So sealing board
edges and seams is an extremely critical act. And it is made difficult
by the movement of the wood in response to changing temperatures,
changing humidity, and the normal flexing that happens as the boat moves
over waves. You must stay ahead of it. On a painted boat, the first
sign of rot is often paint bubbling up - kind of like what you'd see on
a car when rust is going on under the paint (if you are an old car buff,
you'll know what I mean).

Varnishing is a whole 'nother thing...

bob
s/v Eolian
Seattle

RW Salnick inscribed in red ink for all to know:
biz inscribed in red ink for all to know:

RW Salnick wrote:

But others have made the point: You had best be ready to do the
work.. there will be a lot of it. Wooden boats want very much to
turn back into mulch. It will be your responsibility to stay ahead
of this process.

All that taken into consideration, a well cared for wooden boat is
truely a thing of beauty...



Thanks for that Bob

Just a thought, but is the horrific amount of work on wooden boats
people keep talking about because their experiences have involved
maintaining varnished wood? I mean the boat I'm considering has no
bare wood at all. The superstructure is all made from ply and painted
several coats of battleship grey!

I know a few wooden dinghy owners who spend a lot of time sanding and
varnishing their dinghies, but surely if you just slap a load of paint
all over it that's lower maintenance than keeping up the healthy
polished wooden look? My boat in question is certainly not going to
be a great example of beautiful wood.



No, the work I am referring to is staying ahead of rot. Any place where
fresh water can get to the wood will eventually rot. So sealing board
edges and seams is an extremely critical act. And it is made difficult
by the movement of the wood in response to changing temperatures,
changing humidity, and the normal flexing that happens as the boat moves
over waves. You must stay ahead of it. On a painted boat, the first
sign of rot is often paint bubbling up - kind of like what you'd see on
a car when rust is going on under the paint (if you are an old car buff,
you'll know what I mean).

Varnishing is a whole 'nother thing...

bob
s/v Eolian
Seattle

replying to my own message

I should add that having the boat in salt water helps, because wood in
salt water doesn't rot. You'd think that would protect the boat below
the waterline, but don't forget that bilge water is frequently fresh
water, and condensation definitely is, so the failure can actually start
on the inside.

Keeping the boat in a boat house (if it is not a sail boat) will help by
keeping off the rain.

bob

No "PlasTeek" or real teak for me. Give me 316
Stainless steel handrails. Then all I've got to
do is keep them bedded so they don't leak ;-)

Don W.

Right on Don! A man with common cents.

Got to rebed the wood and plastic stuff too. So why not go all the way
with 316L!
Wood sure is lovely and easy to admire................................
on another guys boat!

Might have to make it to a Port Townsend Wood boat show again. God
there are some beautiful boats out there.

So do you think the orignal poster is going to buy a real wood boat
for a liveaboard?

Bob

30K pounds seems like a lot. There are hundreds of 38+ foot boats In
the USA for under that, and a quick search of YachtWorld shows a
number in the UK. For instance, a '97 Dehler 41 asking 29K would be a
fine boat, and more likely to hold its value than an ugly wooden boat.

One point in your calculations: if your cash flow is less with the
glass boat, why not take out a shorter loan? That way you'd be a full
owner or a quality boat in 6-7 years.


* biz wrote, On 3/8/2007 6:55 PM:
Jeff wrote:

It sounds like you don't want a wooden boat because of the aesthetics,
but to save money. So how much do you figure you'll save?

OK, let's do some sums:

Wooden boat:

boat: 12k
survey: 1k
haul-out: 0.3k
initial work: 3k
TOTAL initial outlay: 16.3k
Annual haul-out: 0.3k
Annual work: 3k
Annual insurance: 0.5k
Annual loan repayment: 4.5k
TOTAL annual cost: 8k

End of 3 year loan have asset worth 12k.

GRP/steel boat:

boat: 30k
survey: 0.4k
haul-out: 0.3k
initial work: 0.5k
TOTAL initial outlay: 31.2k
Annual haul-out: 0.1k
Annual work: 1k
Annual insurance: 0.3k
Annual loan repayment: 4.5k
TOTAL annual cost: 5.9k

End of 3 years, have 30% stake in a 30k boat, 7 years left on mortgage.

Figures seem fair? sorry, all these are in pounds sterling. Roughly
double the numbers for $, isn't it these days?

"Don W" wrote in message
news


KLC Lewis wrote:

I plan to use that "PlasTeek" stuff to replace the wooden grabrails on
Essie. Not because I have a problem with keeping up with varnish on them
(relatively minor compared with the rest of my wood trim), but because I
don't want to put varnish on them -- too slippery for a hand-hold. A
couple of years ago I stripped them down to bare wood and treated them
with Penetrol, but I'd need to recoat them once a month or so in active
sailing and that's too much work for me. Don't know that I'd use it
extensively, but I do use Marine Grade HDPE all over the boat. It's great
stuff, and nothing will stick to it.

No "PlasTeek" or real teak for me. Give me 316 Stainless steel handrails.
Then all I've got to do is keep them bedded so they don't leak ;-)

Don W.


Stainless is a very good solution. Quite a bit more expense than plastic,
though.

"RW Salnick" wrote in message
...
replying to my own message

I should add that having the boat in salt water helps, because wood in
salt water doesn't rot. You'd think that would protect the boat below the
waterline, but don't forget that bilge water is frequently fresh water,
and condensation definitely is, so the failure can actually start on the
inside.

Keeping the boat in a boat house (if it is not a sail boat) will help by
keeping off the rain.

bob

Fresh water kills wooden boats. Which is why woodie owners often keep salt
blocks in the bilges.

KLC Lewis wrote:
"RW Salnick" wrote in message
...
replying to my own message

I should add that having the boat in salt water helps, because wood in
salt water doesn't rot. You'd think that would protect the boat below the
waterline, but don't forget that bilge water is frequently fresh water,
and condensation definitely is, so the failure can actually start on the
inside.

Keeping the boat in a boat house (if it is not a sail boat) will help by
keeping off the rain.

bob

Fresh water kills wooden boats. Which is why woodie owners often keep salt
blocks in the bilges.



After 38 years, the bilge of my woodie is well pickled with
antifreeze, oil, sal****er and you name it. And yes, a little rock salt
in there doesn't hurt.
G

After 38 years, the bilge of my woodie is well pickled with
antifreeze, oil, sal****er and you name it. And yes, a little rock salt
in there doesn't hurt.

What no disel ?

Ummmm, ever wonder how to describe that "boat smell" to a non-wood
boat person ?!? I think you just did.

And dont forget a few scews, cut nylon zip ties, wood shavings, and
what didn't disolve of that 10mm wrench.
Bob