wooden liveaboard
 

Hi group

OK, now I've exhausted my search around usenet and the wider web for
information on this topic I thought I'd post for some fresh thoughts and
ideas.

I'm considering buying a wooden boat as a liveaboard, and I have some
major concerns. Almost everyone I come across - surveyors, brokers,
finance houses, insurance companies, usenet posters - seems to balk at
it to lesser or greater degrees. It seems established that they require
regular and vigilant maintenance. I don't want to buy a money pit, and
two marinas I've come across are so fed up with people abandoning wooden
boats they won't allow them. Any thoughts on this?

I've been quoted GBP950 (about $1800) for a survey on the hard, and the
surveyor will do an initial walk-through to see if it's worth going
ahead even to that stage. It's 45 feet long, and is carvel constructed.
I don't yet know the year or specific hull material. The beams are
about 2" x 2". I'm going to go along tomorrow and try to have as many
of the floorboards up as possible so that I can go through with a
bradawl and check for sponginess.

Think I should not risk it and try and find myself a nice tongue in
cheekeasy/ steel-shell?

Biz

wooden liveaboard
 

biz wrote:
Hi group

OK, now I've exhausted my search around usenet and the wider web for
information on this topic I thought I'd post for some fresh thoughts and
ideas.

I'm considering buying a wooden boat as a liveaboard, and I have some
major concerns. Almost everyone I come across - surveyors, brokers,
finance houses, insurance companies, usenet posters - seems to balk at
it to lesser or greater degrees. It seems established that they require
regular and vigilant maintenance. I don't want to buy a money pit, and
two marinas I've come across are so fed up with people abandoning wooden
boats they won't allow them. Any thoughts on this?

I've been quoted GBP950 (about $1800) for a survey on the hard, and the
surveyor will do an initial walk-through to see if it's worth going
ahead even to that stage. It's 45 feet long, and is carvel constructed.
I don't yet know the year or specific hull material. The beams are
about 2" x 2". I'm going to go along tomorrow and try to have as many
of the floorboards up as possible so that I can go through with a
bradawl and check for sponginess.

Think I should not risk it and try and find myself a nice tongue in
cheekeasy/ steel-shell?

Biz

There is nothing wrong with wooden boats except
that wood may deteriorate in water and is food for
some water creatures.

On the positive side:

1) they are easy to maintain if you know what
to do and how to do it.
2) The materials are easy to work with and
readily available.
3) Fairly large wooden boats are usually
available at a small fraction of the cost for a
similar fiberglass boat. (At our marina one of
the tenants was living aboard a 60' wooden boat
that was given to him after he rescued it when it
sank at the dock.)

In order to make them easier to maintain, some
wooden boat owners cover the outside of the hull
with a fairly thin layer of fiberglass to keep the
water and critters away. There are many workboats
that have been treated in this way.

If a wood boat is what you want, I'd say go ahead
and get one. You'll know within a few years
whether it is still what you want ;-)

Luck,

Don W.

wooden liveaboard
 

Don W wrote:

In order to make them easier to maintain, some wooden boat owners cover
the outside of the hull with a fairly thin layer of fiberglass to keep
the water and critters away. There are many workboats that have been
treated in this way.

Thanks for that, Don. My very first foray into wooden boat maintenance
was to buy a 1950's GP14 sailing dinghy last summer. On telling an
expert it had been sheathed in glass fibre, his response was "it's a
write-off". He said the only reason you'd sheath a wooden boat in glass
is if the rot has gone beyond repair and you want to eek a couple more
seasons out of it.

Also, I thought glass would prevent the wood from expanding and lead to
it busting itself apart? It seems like such an easy solution, but I've
read that it's death to a wooden boat.

If a wood boat is what you want, I'd say go ahead and get one. You'll
know within a few years whether it is still what you want ;-)

My worst scenario is getting a loan to pay for the boat, being unable to
fund the ongoing repairs and maintenance and landing up with nowhere to
live. Quite a lot riding on the risk, you might think!!

wooden liveaboard
 

Charlie Morgan wrote:
On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 20:19:40 +0000, biz
wrote:
My worst scenario is getting a loan to pay for the boat, being unable to
fund the ongoing repairs and maintenance and landing up with nowhere to
live. Quite a lot riding on the risk, you might think!!

I seriously doubt you will be able to find either a loan, or insurance
for a wooden boat. Especially one that needs work. If you can't do it
"out of pocket" from existing funds, then I'd say you need a new plan
with a different boat.

I've got an unsecured loan from my bank at quite a reasonable fixed rate
6.9%. I've got about 60% of the asking price in savings actually, but I
don't want to leave myself with no ready cash. But then I'll need quite
a bit to pay for the survey and haul-out, and any hull-work that needs
doing while it's on the hard.

I can handle the thought of annual haul-out and re-painting, but what
keeps me awake at night is possible re-planking running into thousands
that will effectively write it off, and with it my home. I'll be
saddled with still paying off the loan while having to pay rent
somewhere, plus I may have to pay thousands to dispose of the boat!

In fact I don't expect I'd get that far from the results of the survey.

wooden liveaboard
 

* biz wrote, On 3/6/2007 4:14 PM:
Charlie Morgan wrote:
On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 20:19:40 +0000, biz
wrote:
My worst scenario is getting a loan to pay for the boat, being unable
to fund the ongoing repairs and maintenance and landing up with
nowhere to live. Quite a lot riding on the risk, you might think!!

I seriously doubt you will be able to find either a loan, or insurance
for a wooden boat. Especially one that needs work. If you can't do it
"out of pocket" from existing funds, then I'd say you need a new plan
with a different boat.

I've got an unsecured loan from my bank at quite a reasonable fixed rate
6.9%. I've got about 60% of the asking price in savings actually, but I
don't want to leave myself with no ready cash. But then I'll need quite
a bit to pay for the survey and haul-out, and any hull-work that needs
doing while it's on the hard.


So you're going to buy a boat you can't insure with money you don't
have? That makes sense.

I can handle the thought of annual haul-out and re-painting,

You're assuming you can find a yard that would haul a wooden boat.
They won't at my yard, or most of the urban yard where space is cheap.
I don't even think they would haul to scrape the bottom, they
certainly wouldn't to replace planks.

but what
keeps me awake at night is possible re-planking running into thousands
that will effectively write it off, and with it my home. I'll be
saddled with still paying off the loan while having to pay rent
somewhere, plus I may have to pay thousands to dispose of the boat!

In fact I don't expect I'd get that far from the results of the survey.

With vintage glass boats being relatively cheap, why would you
consider a wooden boat? At least with a glass boat, if it passes the
basic hull survey, then it has a predictable value and you can fix up
medium size problems like a soft deck or old rigging or engine without
worrying that you're throwing good money after bad.

wooden liveaboard
 

Jeff wrote:
* biz wrote, On 3/6/2007 4:14 PM:
I've got an unsecured loan from my bank at quite a reasonable fixed
rate 6.9%. I've got about 60% of the asking price in savings
actually, but I don't want to leave myself with no ready cash. But
then I'll need quite a bit to pay for the survey and haul-out, and any
hull-work that needs doing while it's on the hard.

So you're going to buy a boat you can't insure with money you don't
have? That makes sense.

Heh - I have found an insurer that's quoted me 400-500 quid. Got a
couple more leads to try too.

You're assuming you can find a yard that would haul a wooden boat. They
won't at my yard, or most of the urban yard where space is cheap. I
don't even think they would haul to scrape the bottom, they certainly
wouldn't to replace planks.

It's currently owned by the owner of the marina. He's hauled it himself
in the past couple of months to paint the underside.

With vintage glass boats being relatively cheap, why would you consider
a wooden boat? At least with a glass boat, if it passes the basic hull
survey, then it has a predictable value and you can fix up medium size
problems like a soft deck or old rigging or engine without worrying that
you're throwing good money after bad.

Yes, the economics of this are interesting. There's a magazine article
I haven't read but have seen referred to that tots up the cost including
initial outlay and ongoing maintenance and compares GRP to wood.
Comes out about even. Then it's a question of whether you're interested
in actually doing the work, year on year.

I can't get a mortgage on a wood boat, and so have limited my budget to
GBP10k (not including survey 1.5k, 1st year's insurance 0.5k and
immediate work 2k). I could get a mortgage on a glass or steel boat
(even then I can only get a 75% mortgage, so unless I get a loan to make
up the rest this only extends my budget to around 12k).

Another thing that keeps me awake at night is if wooden boats are hard
to sell.

wooden liveaboard
 

I have to agree with Jeff. You must have a LOT of time or a VERY LOT of
money to own a wooden boat. Also you do not want to have to spend all of
your time fixing your boat, you want to spend the majority of your time
sailing her.

Ansley Sawyer
SV Pacem

wooden liveaboard
 

It's been said that you don't own a wooden boat, you rent it.
At least boats you can't store inside.
"biz" wrote in message
...
Hi group

OK, now I've exhausted my search around usenet and the wider web for
information on this topic I thought I'd post for some fresh thoughts and
ideas.

I'm considering buying a wooden boat as a liveaboard, and I have some
major concerns. Almost everyone I come across - surveyors, brokers,
finance houses, insurance companies, usenet posters - seems to balk at it
to lesser or greater degrees. It seems established that they require
regular and vigilant maintenance. I don't want to buy a money pit, and
two marinas I've come across are so fed up with people abandoning wooden
boats they won't allow them. Any thoughts on this?

I've been quoted GBP950 (about $1800) for a survey on the hard, and the
surveyor will do an initial walk-through to see if it's worth going ahead
even to that stage. It's 45 feet long, and is carvel constructed. I don't
yet know the year or specific hull material. The beams are about 2" x 2".
I'm going to go along tomorrow and try to have as many of the floorboards
up as possible so that I can go through with a bradawl and check for
sponginess.

Think I should not risk it and try and find myself a nice tongue in
cheekeasy/ steel-shell?

Biz

wooden liveaboard
 

* biz wrote, On 3/6/2007 4:53 PM:
Jeff wrote:
* biz wrote, On 3/6/2007 4:14 PM:
I've got an unsecured loan from my bank at quite a reasonable fixed
rate 6.9%. I've got about 60% of the asking price in savings
actually, but I don't want to leave myself with no ready cash. But
then I'll need quite a bit to pay for the survey and haul-out, and
any hull-work that needs doing while it's on the hard.

So you're going to buy a boat you can't insure with money you don't
have? That makes sense.

Heh - I have found an insurer that's quoted me 400-500 quid. Got a
couple more leads to try too.

You should compare that to a comparably sized glass boat to see what
the premium is. Perhaps they are more forgiving on your side of the
pond; perhaps the wooden boat there are newer than here in the States.


You're assuming you can find a yard that would haul a wooden boat.
They won't at my yard, or most of the urban yard where space is
cheap. I don't even think they would haul to scrape the bottom, they
certainly wouldn't to replace planks.

It's currently owned by the owner of the marina. He's hauled it himself
in the past couple of months to paint the underside.

Uh, its easy for the yard owner to make an exception for himself. You
should ask around at nearby marinas to see if there is any issue in
your area.



With vintage glass boats being relatively cheap, why would you
consider a wooden boat? At least with a glass boat, if it passes the
basic hull survey, then it has a predictable value and you can fix up
medium size problems like a soft deck or old rigging or engine without
worrying that you're throwing good money after bad.

Yes, the economics of this are interesting. There's a magazine article
I haven't read but have seen referred to that tots up the cost including
initial outlay and ongoing maintenance and compares GRP to wood. Comes
out about even. Then it's a question of whether you're interested in
actually doing the work, year on year.

I have friends that have lived aboard, and followed a migratory
lifestyle for the last 27 years. They do a huge amount of maintenance
work on their boat, partly because they like to by mainly because they
can't afford to pay any one else. Their current boat is a 41 foot
glass boat, which they bought pretty cheap but has probably gone up in
value with all the work that's gone into it. I doubt very much
whether they could have done this with a wooden boat. In fact, their
first larger boat was wood, and they spent more time working on it
than sailing - when they decided to live aboard they sold it and moved
to glass.


I can't get a mortgage on a wood boat, and so have limited my budget to
GBP10k (not including survey 1.5k, 1st year's insurance 0.5k and
immediate work 2k). I could get a mortgage on a glass or steel boat
(even then I can only get a 75% mortgage, so unless I get a loan to make
up the rest this only extends my budget to around 12k).

500 pounds for insurance on a 10K hull? That's 5%. Does that include
hull insurance or just liability?


Another thing that keeps me awake at night is if wooden boats are hard
to sell.

Certainly your market is reduced.

wooden liveaboard
 

"biz" wrote in message
...
Hi group

OK, now I've exhausted my search around usenet and the wider web for
information on this topic I thought I'd post for some fresh thoughts and
ideas.

I'm considering buying a wooden boat as a liveaboard, and I have some
major concerns. Almost everyone I come across - surveyors, brokers,
finance houses, insurance companies, usenet posters - seems to balk at it
to lesser or greater degrees. It seems established that they require
regular and vigilant maintenance. I don't want to buy a money pit, and
two marinas I've come across are so fed up with people abandoning wooden
boats they won't allow them. Any thoughts on this?

I've been quoted GBP950 (about $1800) for a survey on the hard, and the
surveyor will do an initial walk-through to see if it's worth going ahead
even to that stage. It's 45 feet long, and is carvel constructed. I don't
yet know the year or specific hull material. The beams are about 2" x 2".
I'm going to go along tomorrow and try to have as many of the floorboards
up as possible so that I can go through with a bradawl and check for
sponginess.

Think I should not risk it and try and find myself a nice tongue in
cheekeasy/ steel-shell?

Biz



Biz:

For about 20 years I was such a wooden boat nut I built a couple and
subscribed to WoodenBoat magazine religiously.

That's what it is. A religion.

Boats are built of wood because it was at one time the superior material.
Better than reeds (on the Nile) for example. Or hides. Even ships were
built of wood.

Until iron (first) and then steel came along.

And for smaller boats fiberglass.

Substitutions are usually made because a superior technology has emerged.

Sure, stick with wood for purposes of tradition and nostaglia. NOT for
practical reasons of maintenance and durability. And certainly not for
economy. Here, as everywhere, you get what you pay for.

So ponder first: do you want to be a boat maintainer? (I have a friend who
LOVES to take care of his wooden boat. Nothing wrong with that. That's his
hobby. He doesn't pretend to be a sailor.) Or do you want to spend more of
your time boating (or, for a liveaboard, living?)

The choice is clear if you REALLY know what you want.

Best,

Dick B.
M/V "Annie" (a fiberglass tugboat)

wooden liveaboard
 

Hi:

Depends oun how you want to live....................... My step dad
fished a 58' wood dragger built in 1912 was repowerd
with a 6-71 in the early 50s (of course). F/V Madaline J. was a great
boat. Last I heard she was in the SF, CA area.

First, they are wood and live& last by breathing. Everything inside
will be much damper than a plastic boat. Your bread will smell like
disel. So your clothing and hair. Every thing will smell like boat! In
th pacific northwest (PNW) I can buy a 24'-40' wood salmon boat for
about $5,000-12,000. Most will have a 53 series Jimmy and were built
in 1930s -1950s. Excellent sea boats but, no mo fish so no mo use.
Would I buy one for a liveaboard???? U got 2 b nuts! Better live under
a bridge..... in the winter.... in a cardboard box...... Beside who
you going to get to replace planks, stems, and sister the ribs?

Plastic fantastic . Come on Barbie Lets go Pardy....................
Bob

wooden liveaboard
 

Jeff wrote:


Their current boat is a 41 foot glass
boat, which they bought pretty cheap but has probably gone up in value
with all the work that's gone into it.

That'll be the day.

wooden liveaboard
 

* Paul Cassel wrote, On 3/6/2007 8:36 PM:
Jeff wrote:


Their current boat is a 41 foot glass boat, which they bought pretty
cheap but has probably gone up in value with all the work that's gone
into it.

That'll be the day.

There are several comparables on Soundings and Yachtworld, asking
prices ranging from $42K to $86K. They paid well under the low end of
that, thought they probably had that much in before they moved
onboard. The boat is in very good condition now, and they could
certainly ask near the high end. These are folks who raise cash by
doing boat work, mainly canvas, varnish, and mechanicals while
traveling. Their previous boat went for about 20% more then they paid
for it after they lived on it for 15 years.

My last boat I sold for about 2% less than I paid for it 8 years
earlier. Had I been willing to hold out, I probably could have made a
profit, but I had no desire to own two boats at once! I won't be so
lucky on my current boat, since I bought her new

wooden liveaboard
 

There are still many boat made of wood along the coast of Maine. Last
summer, a traditional plank on frame yacht was launched not far from me.

No doubt a wooden boat requires more work. That is true.

If I were to look at a wooden boat, I would first look at the basics.
General condition. Rot. Type of wood construction. A strip plank
construction is easy to saturate with epoxy.

Unless the boat is beautiful, you should not offer much for it. The
insurance will be prohibitive.

What skills do you have? Are you a woodworker? Have you ever worked on a
wooden boat? Do you know about fastenings, rot, dead wood, keel, etc etc?

I saw an old wooden sailing boat that was for sail and she was in top notch
condition. Strip plank construction. Lots of epoxy saturation. Good paint
job. Updated engine, etc. She was beautiful. But even the owner told me
she was a lot of work. He loved her and hated her at the same time.

Another thing .. where are you planning on sailing? In the hot sun of
Florida, the decks, hull, everything starts to open up.

==========

I think you should move toward steel if you want affordable. Might not be
as pretty, but a simple metal hull can hold up.




"biz" wrote in message
...
Hi group

OK, now I've exhausted my search around usenet and the wider web for
information on this topic I thought I'd post for some fresh thoughts and
ideas.

I'm considering buying a wooden boat as a liveaboard, and I have some
major concerns. Almost everyone I come across - surveyors, brokers,
finance houses, insurance companies, usenet posters - seems to balk at it
to lesser or greater degrees. It seems established that they require
regular and vigilant maintenance. I don't want to buy a money pit, and
two marinas I've come across are so fed up with people abandoning wooden
boats they won't allow them. Any thoughts on this?

I've been quoted GBP950 (about $1800) for a survey on the hard, and the
surveyor will do an initial walk-through to see if it's worth going ahead
even to that stage. It's 45 feet long, and is carvel constructed. I don't
yet know the year or specific hull material. The beams are about 2" x 2".
I'm going to go along tomorrow and try to have as many of the floorboards
up as possible so that I can go through with a bradawl and check for
sponginess.

Think I should not risk it and try and find myself a nice tongue in
cheekeasy/ steel-shell?

Biz

wooden liveaboard
 

On Mar 6, 7:03 pm, "NE Sailboat" wrote:



A strip plank
construction is easy to saturate with epoxy.
Strip plank construction. Lots of epoxy saturation. Good paint
job. Updated engine, etc. She was beautiful. But even the owner told me
she was a lot of work. He loved her and hated her at the same time.

What do you mean by "...strip plank construction... with lots of epoxy
saturation....?" I know of carvel and a couple others...... When I
think of a wood boat it does not include epoxy. Ugh, now you have a
plastic boat with wood fibers instead of glass fibers. Do you mean
"cold molding?" Strips of ceadar held together with epoxy that hang
over a firplace? In my humble opinion a wood boat is held together
with bronze and craftmanship................. Arg !
Okay, okay............... I'll go with double hot dipped galvanized.
good enough for a workboat.
Steam Box Bob

wooden liveaboard
 

On Mar 6, 6:11 pm, Jeff wrote:
* Paul Cassel wrote, On 3/6/2007 8:36 PM:

Jeff wrote:
Their current boat is a 41 foot glass boat, which they bought pretty
cheap but has probably gone up in value with all the work that's gone
into it.

That'll be the day.

Agreed!

Any hidden, I mean not considered, costs?

My last boat I sold for about 2% less than I paid for it 8 years
earlier. Had I been willing to hold out, I probably could have made a
profit,

Lets see, just looking at inflation at 3% per year...... x 8 years =
24%
Looks like you lost 22% of your original "investment" just in
inflation. Now add ANY yard bill and that Christmas gift for the boat.
And your time is billed at $65/hour? Oh, I forgot, youre time is
worthless cause working on a boat is a labor of love........... Trust
me I would much rather be drinking a beer, sailing, or boning the guys
girlfriend two sllips down than adding more toxic chemicals to my
body.

Love is blind.......... and so are boat owners. espeically the ones
with a dream.

wooden liveaboard
 

Bob wrote:
On Mar 6, 7:03 pm, "NE Sailboat" wrote:



A strip plank
construction is easy to saturate with epoxy.
Strip plank construction. Lots of epoxy saturation. Good paint
job. Updated engine, etc. She was beautiful. But even the owner
told me she was a lot of work. He loved her and hated her at the
same time.

What do you mean by "...strip plank construction... with lots of epoxy
saturation....?" I know of carvel and a couple others...... When I
think of a wood boat it does not include epoxy. Ugh, now you have a
plastic boat with wood fibers instead of glass fibers. Do you mean
"cold molding?" Strips of ceadar held together with epoxy that hang
over a firplace? In my humble opinion a wood boat is held together
with bronze and craftmanship................. Arg !
Okay, okay............... I'll go with double hot dipped galvanized.
good enough for a workboat.
Steam Box Bob

Different people mean different things by "strip planking".

Here in the UK it refers to the method used by the East German boatbuilders
when they built so many folkboats in the 1960's-1970's. Also Borrensen of
Denmark when he built those beautiful Dragon Class yachts around the same
period.

AFAIR, the hull consisted of oak or ash frames, 2" by 2", shaped or
laminated, and set at fairly frequent intervals. Narrow strip planking,
usually mahogany, and about 1/2" by 1", was used to cover the framework and
was nailed, using silicon-bronze barbed nails inserted vertically, i.e.
nailing the planks into the previously nailed plank. The planks were
fastened to the frames using silicon-bronze screws, plugged and glued to
match the planking. I am not sure if glue was used along the seams, but the
result was a much tighter and neater finish that traditional carvel
construction. The planks were very narrow, and the finish was varnished, and
impeccable. There was no caulking.

The Folkboat sold in vast quantities in the UK, and many are still sailing.
The cost was around £4500 for a complete sailboat with all equipment. The
Borrensen Dragon was the ultimate in appearance and construction and cost
around £7500 all up. Times have changed!

There is no problem maintaining a wooden boat so long as you don't want to
sail it!

Dennis.

wooden liveaboard
 

* Bob wrote, On 3/7/2007 1:44 AM:
On Mar 6, 6:11 pm, Jeff wrote:
* Paul Cassel wrote, On 3/6/2007 8:36 PM:

Jeff wrote:
Their current boat is a 41 foot glass boat, which they bought pretty
cheap but has probably gone up in value with all the work that's gone
into it.

That'll be the day.

Agreed!

There are lots of cases of boats given a lot of TLC going up in value.
Its not likely to happen with me, but it does with a few. What's
not clear is whether you actually "earn" at a reasonable rate while
working on your own boat.


Any hidden, I mean not considered, costs?

Sure plenty, but that wasn't really the point.


My last boat I sold for about 2% less than I paid for it 8 years
earlier. Had I been willing to hold out, I probably could have made a
profit,

Lets see, just looking at inflation at 3% per year...... x 8 years =
24%

Again, not the point. The point is that with virtually no hull work,
and a little bit of engine work I was able to continue using the boat,
and then sell it for good money.

Looks like you lost 22% of your original "investment" just in
inflation. Now add ANY yard bill and that Christmas gift for the boat.
And your time is billed at $65/hour? Oh, I forgot, youre time is
worthless cause working on a boat is a labor of love........... Trust
me I would much rather be drinking a beer, sailing, or boning the guys
girlfriend two sllips down than adding more toxic chemicals to my
body.

Unfortunately, I can't afford to own a cruising boat unless I do the
bulk of the work. It was a bit different before I retired, but its
been six years since anyone else has done any work on her. This
Spring I'll have someone do the SailDrive seals because my yard won't
let me do that, and in the Fall I'll have a rigger pull the mast, but
that should do it for a few more years.

However, doing the bottom on my boat is a few hours of prep and a few
hours of nasty work. And I can skip a year every now and then. Even
If I had to pay, it wouldn't be that much money. Dealing with the
bottom of a wooden boat would be a lot more expensive, and woe be to
the poor soul that tries to skimp.


Love is blind.......... and so are boat owners. espeically the ones
with a dream.

There's no doubt that there are a lot of hidden costs that make a boat
a bad investment, compared to real estate. The point, however, is
that with a glass boat a minimal amount of care will keep the boat
viable and it becomes reasonable to spend money on improvements, etc.
With a wooden boat, a year or two of neglect, even unintentional,
could mean the total loss of the investment. Live on a glass boat for
ten years and you could probably stay on it for another ten or you can
get some money out of it. Live on a wooden boat and you might find
yourself with nothing.

wooden liveaboard
 

Wood strip construction is strips of wood, say 2" by 2" which is screwed
together as it is assembled on the frame of the boat. The strips are also
screwed to the frame. Because you are using smaller pieces of wood than
carvel, no bending [ not much anyway ] and the strips are butted tight, so
no big seams to fill.

Check out the West System site. When Gougen [ spelling?? ] first got
started in epoxy, I believe they used the epoxy with strip plank.


"When I think of a wood boat it does not include epoxy. Ugh, now you have a
plastic boat with wood fibers instead of glass fibers. Do you mean "cold
molding?" ".

I am no expert but I think cold molding uses larger wood such as a plywood
layed across another piece of wood.

To your statement about epoxy and wood .. and the Ugh word.

Do you paint your wood? Would you paint your wood if you have a wood boat?

Epoxy is a good covering, better than paint. Both seal and protect. Epoxy
does it better.

Building a boat is similar to other building products. The builder uses
readily available material to build with.

Strip plank is a very good method of construction, popular with the home
builder.

I think you need to do some reading on wooden boats. Your ignorance of the
subject is evident.

============



"Bob" wrote in message
ps.com...
On Mar 6, 7:03 pm, "NE Sailboat" wrote:



A strip plank
construction is easy to saturate with epoxy.
Strip plank construction. Lots of epoxy saturation. Good paint
job. Updated engine, etc. She was beautiful. But even the owner told
me
she was a lot of work. He loved her and hated her at the same time.

What do you mean by "...strip plank construction... with lots of epoxy
saturation....?" I know of carvel and a couple others...... When I
think of a wood boat it does not include epoxy. Ugh, now you have a
plastic boat with wood fibers instead of glass fibers. Do you mean
"cold molding?" Strips of ceadar held together with epoxy that hang
over a firplace? In my humble opinion a wood boat is held together
with bronze and craftmanship................. Arg !
Okay, okay............... I'll go with double hot dipped galvanized.
good enough for a workboat.
Steam Box Bob

wooden liveaboard
 

Jeff, any boat which is neglected will soon start to show it.

There are many very beautiful wooden boats still afloat.

I think the issue here is the HULL. Since that is the part that sits in the
water and takes the most abuse.

If was a very rich person, I would get one of the cold molded yachts built
for me. And I would have wood decks, lots of teack, etc.

But .............. poor as a church mouse so ...... plastic.. lots of
plastic.


"Jeff" wrote in message
. ..
* Bob wrote, On 3/7/2007 1:44 AM:
On Mar 6, 6:11 pm, Jeff wrote:
* Paul Cassel wrote, On 3/6/2007 8:36 PM:

Jeff wrote:
Their current boat is a 41 foot glass boat, which they bought pretty
cheap but has probably gone up in value with all the work that's gone
into it.

That'll be the day.

Agreed!

There are lots of cases of boats given a lot of TLC going up in value. Its
not likely to happen with me, but it does with a few. What's not clear is
whether you actually "earn" at a reasonable rate while working on your own
boat.


Any hidden, I mean not considered, costs?

Sure plenty, but that wasn't really the point.


My last boat I sold for about 2% less than I paid for it 8 years
earlier. Had I been willing to hold out, I probably could have made a
profit,

Lets see, just looking at inflation at 3% per year...... x 8 years =
24%

Again, not the point. The point is that with virtually no hull work, and
a little bit of engine work I was able to continue using the boat, and
then sell it for good money.

Looks like you lost 22% of your original "investment" just in
inflation. Now add ANY yard bill and that Christmas gift for the boat.
And your time is billed at $65/hour? Oh, I forgot, youre time is
worthless cause working on a boat is a labor of love........... Trust
me I would much rather be drinking a beer, sailing, or boning the guys
girlfriend two sllips down than adding more toxic chemicals to my
body.

Unfortunately, I can't afford to own a cruising boat unless I do the bulk
of the work. It was a bit different before I retired, but its been six
years since anyone else has done any work on her. This Spring I'll have
someone do the SailDrive seals because my yard won't let me do that, and
in the Fall I'll have a rigger pull the mast, but that should do it for a
few more years.

However, doing the bottom on my boat is a few hours of prep and a few
hours of nasty work. And I can skip a year every now and then. Even If I
had to pay, it wouldn't be that much money. Dealing with the bottom of a
wooden boat would be a lot more expensive, and woe be to the poor soul
that tries to skimp.


Love is blind.......... and so are boat owners. espeically the ones
with a dream.

There's no doubt that there are a lot of hidden costs that make a boat a
bad investment, compared to real estate. The point, however, is that with
a glass boat a minimal amount of care will keep the boat viable and it
becomes reasonable to spend money on improvements, etc. With a wooden
boat, a year or two of neglect, even unintentional, could mean the total
loss of the investment. Live on a glass boat for ten years and you could
probably stay on it for another ten or you can get some money out of it.
Live on a wooden boat and you might find yourself with nothing.

wooden liveaboard
 

biz inscribed in red ink for all to know:
Hi group

OK, now I've exhausted my search around usenet and the wider web for
information on this topic I thought I'd post for some fresh thoughts and
ideas.

I'm considering buying a wooden boat as a liveaboard, and I have some
major concerns. Almost everyone I come across - surveyors, brokers,
finance houses, insurance companies, usenet posters - seems to balk at
it to lesser or greater degrees. It seems established that they require
regular and vigilant maintenance. I don't want to buy a money pit, and
two marinas I've come across are so fed up with people abandoning wooden
boats they won't allow them. Any thoughts on this?

I've been quoted GBP950 (about $1800) for a survey on the hard, and the
surveyor will do an initial walk-through to see if it's worth going
ahead even to that stage. It's 45 feet long, and is carvel constructed.
I don't yet know the year or specific hull material. The beams are
about 2" x 2". I'm going to go along tomorrow and try to have as many
of the floorboards up as possible so that I can go through with a
bradawl and check for sponginess.

Think I should not risk it and try and find myself a nice tongue in
cheekeasy/ steel-shell?

Biz

If you are interested in learning and applying the craft of wooden boat
building, you can have a very nice boat for surprisingly little initial
outlay.

But others have made the point: You had best be ready to do the work..
there will be a lot of it. Wooden boats want very much to turn back
into mulch. It will be your responsibility to stay ahead of this process.

All that taken into consideration, a well cared for wooden boat is
truely a thing of beauty...

bob
s/v Eolian (fiberglass)
Seattle

wooden liveaboard
 

On Mar 7, 6:10 am, "NE Sailboat" wrote:
Wood strip construction is strips of wood, say 2" by 2" which is screwed
together as it is assembled on the frame of the boat. The strips are also
screwed to the frame. Because you are using smaller pieces of wood than
carvel, no bending [ not much anyway ] and the strips are butted tight, so
no big seams to fill.

is this what some people call "Lap Strake"


Check out the West System site. When Gougen [ spelling?? ] first got
started in epoxy, I believe they used the epoxy with strip plank.

Yes, good book . I bought one in 1982.


I am no expert but I think cold molding uses larger wood such as a plywood
layed across another piece of wood.

that is one way. the G bros describe using cedar vener about 4"x 1/8"
Basically making your own plywood.

then there is what I hear called strip construction. common on a canoe


To your statement about epoxy and wood .. and the Ugh word.
Do you paint your wood? Would you paint your wood if you have a wood boat?

just the outside. on my old sprit sailed swampscott sailing dory
(Chappell) I used turpintine-linsed oil- pine tar.

Epoxy is a good covering, better than paint. Both seal and protect. Epoxy
does it better.

now that statment opens a can of worms im sure some would debate. It
all about intended use.


I think you need to do some reading on wooden boats. Your ignorance of the
subject is evident.

My dear poster. Did i call you ignorant? Did i even suggest that you
were stupid?

Diffrent regions use similar words to describe diffrent things. in
this case boat construction.

from my humble experince I would use epoxy on a plywood bottom. But
never on a 58' carvel planked bottom.
but I guess you forgot to detemine what we were actually talking about
before deciding to call me ignorant.

GFY

wooden liveaboard
 

Bob .. strip plank is Strip Plank ..

No, it is not lap stake.

Seriously,, if you don't know the difference between a strip plank and lap
stake constructed wooden boat ...

Your not ignorant, just uninformed about wooden boats.

=========================================
"Bob" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Mar 7, 6:10 am, "NE Sailboat" wrote:
Wood strip construction is strips of wood, say 2" by 2" which is screwed
together as it is assembled on the frame of the boat. The strips are
also
screwed to the frame. Because you are using smaller pieces of wood than
carvel, no bending [ not much anyway ] and the strips are butted tight,
so
no big seams to fill.

is this what some people call "Lap Strake"


Check out the West System site. When Gougen [ spelling?? ] first got
started in epoxy, I believe they used the epoxy with strip plank.

Yes, good book . I bought one in 1982.


I am no expert but I think cold molding uses larger wood such as a
plywood
layed across another piece of wood.

that is one way. the G bros describe using cedar vener about 4"x 1/8"
Basically making your own plywood.

then there is what I hear called strip construction. common on a canoe


To your statement about epoxy and wood .. and the Ugh word.
Do you paint your wood? Would you paint your wood if you have a wood
boat?

just the outside. on my old sprit sailed swampscott sailing dory
(Chappell) I used turpintine-linsed oil- pine tar.

Epoxy is a good covering, better than paint. Both seal and protect.
Epoxy
does it better.

now that statment opens a can of worms im sure some would debate. It
all about intended use.


I think you need to do some reading on wooden boats. Your ignorance of
the
subject is evident.

My dear poster. Did i call you ignorant? Did i even suggest that you
were stupid?

Diffrent regions use similar words to describe diffrent things. in
this case boat construction.

from my humble experince I would use epoxy on a plywood bottom. But
never on a 58' carvel planked bottom.
but I guess you forgot to detemine what we were actually talking about
before deciding to call me ignorant.

GFY

wooden liveaboard
 

Spelling .. ?? Morgan, you old pirate...

==============================


"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 21:58:42 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:

Bob .. strip plank is Strip Plank ..

No, it is not lap stake.

Seriously,, if you don't know the difference between a strip plank and lap
stake constructed wooden boat ...

Your not ignorant, just uninformed about wooden boats.


Speaking of ignorant... Its LAP STRAKE, which Bob seems to know, and you
don't.

CWM

wooden liveaboard
 

No, it is not lap stake.

Im no expert but I think cold molding uses larger wood such as a plywood
layed across another piece of wood.

No, I think that is not correct. So do I get to call you ignorant or
stupid?

Seriously,, if you don't know the difference between a strip plank and lap
stake constructed wooden boat ...

SInce you are so set at criticizing instead of understanding I am
going to assume you are simply an arogant ass. The correct term is
STRAKE and not stake as you use. I have a like for your enlightment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strake

You are also wrong about cold mold method as discribed by the G. Bros.

Now about your "strip planking." I under stand the process. It was
your vague use of the term and your other ignorant statments that lead
me to believe you simply had a novice understand of strip plank
construction methods. Yes, taking 2"x2" chunks of wood and fastening
to one another by side nailing is an old Recreational Small Home Build
method. Then with recent improvments, ie epoxy saturation, it is
possible to incapsulate the whole thing............. That is where I
stop and say that is not a wood boat. It is a boat made of, not GRP,
rather Wood Reinforced Epoxy. Saturating wood such as cedar and red
wood is not in my opinion a wood boat. It sure do look pretty as a 17'
canoa on top of your Subaru Outback though.

Hell you can use foam, cardboard, plywood, veners, C-Flex, and stucko
on chicken wire then slop epoxy over it all. I would not call that a
wood boat either.

But I think what ****ed me off more was your asumption that I was
ignorant simply when I was attempting to understand your use of the
phrase "strip planking"

Your not ignorant, just uninformed about wooden boats.

So excuse me for having a westcoast vocabulary and a desire to
understand your developing maritime language skills.
In other words............... Arg ! that aint no wood boat Dick.
GFY

wooden liveaboard
 

Bob,

If a boat is built of 12,000 pounds of wood and 1000 pounds of epoxy, what
would you call it?

Wooden Boat, says I. The epoxy cannot fully saturate the wood if it's more
than perhaps an 1/8 inch thick and quite porous to begin with (end-grain
balsa and the like excepted, but then how many boats are built butcher-block
style?).

It ain't steel, it ain't ferro, it ain't GRP, it ain't aluminum (or even
al-you-minnee-um). It's wood, sealed, laminated, and/or otherwise
incorporating epoxy and/or fiberglass into its composition.

Karin

"Bob" wrote in message
ups.com...
No, it is not lap stake.

Im no expert but I think cold molding uses larger wood such as a plywood
layed across another piece of wood.

No, I think that is not correct. So do I get to call you ignorant or
stupid?

Seriously,, if you don't know the difference between a strip plank and lap
stake constructed wooden boat ...

SInce you are so set at criticizing instead of understanding I am
going to assume you are simply an arogant ass. The correct term is
STRAKE and not stake as you use. I have a like for your enlightment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strake

You are also wrong about cold mold method as discribed by the G. Bros.

Now about your "strip planking." I under stand the process. It was
your vague use of the term and your other ignorant statments that lead
me to believe you simply had a novice understand of strip plank
construction methods. Yes, taking 2"x2" chunks of wood and fastening
to one another by side nailing is an old Recreational Small Home Build
method. Then with recent improvments, ie epoxy saturation, it is
possible to incapsulate the whole thing............. That is where I
stop and say that is not a wood boat. It is a boat made of, not GRP,
rather Wood Reinforced Epoxy. Saturating wood such as cedar and red
wood is not in my opinion a wood boat. It sure do look pretty as a 17'
canoa on top of your Subaru Outback though.

Hell you can use foam, cardboard, plywood, veners, C-Flex, and stucko
on chicken wire then slop epoxy over it all. I would not call that a
wood boat either.

But I think what ****ed me off more was your asumption that I was
ignorant simply when I was attempting to understand your use of the
phrase "strip planking"

Your not ignorant, just uninformed about wooden boats.

So excuse me for having a westcoast vocabulary and a desire to
understand your developing maritime language skills.
In other words............... Arg ! that aint no wood boat Dick.
GFY

wooden liveaboard
 

KLC .. there are still lots of wooden boats, both sail and power, up where I
keep my boat.

Years ago, I almost bought a wooden sloop. Built by Bud McIntosh up near
Dover, NH as I recall.

I backed off after the survey. Had rot in the transom.

Well, last spring ................ yup. There she was "The Toddy ll".

And she was still beautiful. She needed some TLC but there is just
something about a wood boat.

Strip plank boats are rather easy to build. Hard to repair though. With
the new epoxy's, I'd build a strip plank boat in a heart beat.

I don't know much about the cold molded boats. My teacher at my Power
Squadron course said they are very sweet. He used to own a Hinkley. If he
thinks they are sweet ;;;;;;;;;;;; they are sweet.

I was told the other day that a couple of boat builders down east will build
the hull for a customer and they the owner gets to finish her.

Using strip plank and lots of epoxy .. bet one could get a very nice hull.

Bob has that fever .. wood boat fever. This can be a very dangerous
condition.

Bob ,, if you are reading ... I know of a wooden sloop built in the early
1950's that is for sale. You would not know it to look at her, that is for
sure.

There is another beauty down east which is owned by a minister that I've
seen. She is spectacular. And she is strip plank with lots of epoxy.

The minister loves her, he just can't keep up with her and the flock at the
same time.

If wood is what you want .. go for it.

Just don't tell yourself that we are exagerating about the work involved.

It is ................ hours .................... and hours
..................... and hours ................. of work to keep up a wood
boat.

And .. if it is done right ?

Worth every minute.



"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
et...
Bob,

If a boat is built of 12,000 pounds of wood and 1000 pounds of epoxy, what
would you call it?

Wooden Boat, says I. The epoxy cannot fully saturate the wood if it's more
than perhaps an 1/8 inch thick and quite porous to begin with (end-grain
balsa and the like excepted, but then how many boats are built
butcher-block style?).

It ain't steel, it ain't ferro, it ain't GRP, it ain't aluminum (or even
al-you-minnee-um). It's wood, sealed, laminated, and/or otherwise
incorporating epoxy and/or fiberglass into its composition.

Karin

"Bob" wrote in message
ups.com...
No, it is not lap stake.

Im no expert but I think cold molding uses larger wood such as a plywood
layed across another piece of wood.

No, I think that is not correct. So do I get to call you ignorant or
stupid?

Seriously,, if you don't know the difference between a strip plank and
lap
stake constructed wooden boat ...

SInce you are so set at criticizing instead of understanding I am
going to assume you are simply an arogant ass. The correct term is
STRAKE and not stake as you use. I have a like for your enlightment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strake

You are also wrong about cold mold method as discribed by the G. Bros.

Now about your "strip planking." I under stand the process. It was
your vague use of the term and your other ignorant statments that lead
me to believe you simply had a novice understand of strip plank
construction methods. Yes, taking 2"x2" chunks of wood and fastening
to one another by side nailing is an old Recreational Small Home Build
method. Then with recent improvments, ie epoxy saturation, it is
possible to incapsulate the whole thing............. That is where I
stop and say that is not a wood boat. It is a boat made of, not GRP,
rather Wood Reinforced Epoxy. Saturating wood such as cedar and red
wood is not in my opinion a wood boat. It sure do look pretty as a 17'
canoa on top of your Subaru Outback though.

Hell you can use foam, cardboard, plywood, veners, C-Flex, and stucko
on chicken wire then slop epoxy over it all. I would not call that a
wood boat either.

But I think what ****ed me off more was your asumption that I was
ignorant simply when I was attempting to understand your use of the
phrase "strip planking"

Your not ignorant, just uninformed about wooden boats.

So excuse me for having a westcoast vocabulary and a desire to
understand your developing maritime language skills.
In other words............... Arg ! that aint no wood boat Dick.
GFY

wooden liveaboard
 

"NE Sailboat" wrote in message
news:HuKHh.1566$pi.707@trndny09...
KLC .. there are still lots of wooden boats, both sail and power, up where
I keep my boat.

Years ago, I almost bought a wooden sloop. Built by Bud McIntosh up near
Dover, NH as I recall.

I backed off after the survey. Had rot in the transom.

Well, last spring ................ yup. There she was "The Toddy ll".

And she was still beautiful. She needed some TLC but there is just
something about a wood boat.

Strip plank boats are rather easy to build. Hard to repair though. With
the new epoxy's, I'd build a strip plank boat in a heart beat.

I don't know much about the cold molded boats. My teacher at my Power
Squadron course said they are very sweet. He used to own a Hinkley. If
he thinks they are sweet ;;;;;;;;;;;; they are sweet.

I was told the other day that a couple of boat builders down east will
build the hull for a customer and they the owner gets to finish her.

Using strip plank and lots of epoxy .. bet one could get a very nice hull.

Bob has that fever .. wood boat fever. This can be a very dangerous
condition.

Bob ,, if you are reading ... I know of a wooden sloop built in the early
1950's that is for sale. You would not know it to look at her, that is
for sure.

There is another beauty down east which is owned by a minister that I've
seen. She is spectacular. And she is strip plank with lots of epoxy.

The minister loves her, he just can't keep up with her and the flock at
the same time.

If wood is what you want .. go for it.

Just don't tell yourself that we are exagerating about the work involved.

It is ................ hours .................... and hours
.................... and hours ................. of work to keep up a wood
boat.

And .. if it is done right ?

Worth every minute.


Back in 93 or so when we were looking for our first boat, we found a wooden
schooner up in Alameda by the name of "Manu Re-re" ("flying bird).
Magnificent boat, I fell in love with her immediately. About 34 feet on deck
IIRC, plus bowsprit and boomkin for a LOA of around 40'. She was born in
1959, giving me an immediate affinity for her as we shared birth years. Two
deck houses, tiller, tops'l, gaff rig...she was a beauty. But she needed
refastening, my husband hated the tiller and refused to consider a wooden
boat, and so we passed her by for a CT-41 that ended up having such rot in
her deckhouse that we had to completely rebuild it.

In the end, we may well have been ahead to have bought Manu Re-re. I want a
do-over! lol

wooden liveaboard
 

On Mar 7, 5:02 pm, "KLC Lewis" wrote:
Bob,

If a boat is built of 12,000 pounds of wood and 1000 pounds of epoxy, what
would you call it?

Thank you for a question instead of useing this as an oportunity for a
slap down. For me, and this is only a very personal opinion although
shared by a few others, I would call that 12K boat: a bunch of wood
cobbled and stuck together with glue. I certainly would not call it a
wood boat. For me, and I must stress the word me, a wood boat is just
that.... wood..... wood that breaths. Wood when areas of operation,
intended use, availible resourses determine materials, design, and
craftmanship.

For me a wood boat is mechanicaly fastned not held together with glue
and embalmed with plastic.

A wood boat alows mosture to migrate in and out. And when not doing
what a boat does best: float in water. Will shrink and start to pull
appart.......... just enough to calk the seams again. That is if it is
a carvel type, what the Limys call a clinker, and not a lap strake
design.

Call a vessel made with a 12:1 ration of wood to epoxy a wood boat as
well as call thoes Pergo Floors... Wood Floors. Just be cause its
shinny and the picture looks like wood dont make it so. In fact lets
just callem what they are......... Pergo boats. You heard it here
first!

Hey NE Sailboat, when ya gonna get that nice pergo boat in the water
before she starts to pull apart? What, oh thats right plastic dont
shrink do it.

Bob
Owner of a 26,000lb GRP boat. As seen in Clasic Plastic.
And loving every blister shes got.

wooden liveaboard
 

ups my typo............

carvel is similar to strip plank
lapstrake is same as Limy Clinker

Darn, never thought i would ever get so heated over something as bland
as the definition of wood. I guess times have changed.
Bob

wooden liveaboard
 

"NE Sailboat" wrote in news:HuKHh.1566$pi.707
@trndny09:

Bob has that fever .. wood boat fever. This can be a very dangerous
condition.



This condition IS treatable. Find someone with a wooden boat and offer him
Bob and Bob's sander, every weekend for the next month, to help him do what
he does all the time....sand and paint...sand and paint.

Bob'll soon come to his senses and start looking for a nice FIBERGLASS boat
to SAIL not SAND on weekends.

Wood nostalgia is wonderful during that first hour of sanding, but wanes
quickly as the sun tops the mast....

Larry
--
Can you hear the woodborers eating the hull as you lay in the v-berth?

wooden liveaboard
 

"KLC Lewis" wrote in
et:

my husband hated the tiller and refused to consider a wooden
boat,

Women love wooden boats because the HUSBAND does the
maintenance....continuously.

Anonymous

wooden liveaboard
 

In article HuKHh.1566$pi.707@trndny09,
"NE Sailboat" wrote:

I don't know much about the cold molded boats. My teacher at my
Power Squadron course said they are very sweet. He used to own a
Hinkley. If he thinks they are sweet ;;;;;;;;;;;; they are sweet.


Fiberglass is a poor copy of wood, except that it is more stable.

Raced a one-design fleet that had both cold molded and glass boats. The
wood boats were absolutely gorgeous (when not painted), lighter,
stronger and faster than the glass versions.

But though they were dry-sailed, the wood ones spent most of the winter
in the owners' heated garages being maintained.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's NEW Pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

wooden liveaboard
 

"Larry" wrote in message
...
"KLC Lewis" wrote in
et:

my husband hated the tiller and refused to consider a wooden
boat,

Women love wooden boats because the HUSBAND does the
maintenance....continuously.

Anonymous

Not in this family. lol

wooden liveaboard
 

On Mar 7, 11:30 pm, Larry wrote:
"NE Sailboat" wrote in news:HuKHh.1566$pi.707
@trndny09:

Bob has that fever .. wood boat fever. This can be a very dangerous
condition.

This condition IS treatable. Find someone with a wooden boat and offer him
Bob and Bob's sander, every weekend for the next month, to help him do what
he does all the time....sand and paint...sand and paint.

Bob'll soon come to his senses and start looking for a nice FIBERGLASS boat
to SAIL not SAND on weekends.

Wood nostalgia is wonderful during that first hour of sanding, but wanes
quickly as the sun tops the mast....



Dont get me wrong........... I wood never own a wood boat. U got 2 b
nuts to own one or very very rich.
I have a GRP, 1979ventage. I love it. Why? Cause it aint wood!


Larry
--
Can you hear the woodborers eating the hull as you lay in the v-berth?

Ah,ship worms...... gribbles, torredo worms (which are not worms at
all... actually a clam)

Whats not to love about red lead, white lead, Dolpinite, pine
tar................. Arg!

uh, just about everything............. every spring and every fall.

but please do not tell me a Pergo boat incapsulated in epoxy is a
"wood boat" It just aint so. Theyre pretty, ridgid, water proof,
light,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and plastic.
Bob

wooden liveaboard
 

"Bob" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 7, 11:30 pm, Larry wrote:
"NE Sailboat" wrote in news:HuKHh.1566$pi.707
@trndny09:

Bob has that fever .. wood boat fever. This can be a very dangerous
condition.

This condition IS treatable. Find someone with a wooden boat and offer
him
Bob and Bob's sander, every weekend for the next month, to help him do
what
he does all the time....sand and paint...sand and paint.

Bob'll soon come to his senses and start looking for a nice FIBERGLASS
boat
to SAIL not SAND on weekends.

Wood nostalgia is wonderful during that first hour of sanding, but wanes
quickly as the sun tops the mast....



Dont get me wrong........... I wood never own a wood boat. U got 2 b
nuts to own one or very very rich.
I have a GRP, 1979ventage. I love it. Why? Cause it aint wood!


Larry
--
Can you hear the woodborers eating the hull as you lay in the v-berth?

Ah,ship worms...... gribbles, torredo worms (which are not worms at
all... actually a clam)

Whats not to love about red lead, white lead, Dolpinite, pine
tar................. Arg!

uh, just about everything............. every spring and every fall.

but please do not tell me a Pergo boat incapsulated in epoxy is a
"wood boat" It just aint so. Theyre pretty, ridgid, water proof,
light,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and plastic.
Bob

What is a wood boat joined with Resorcinol and encapsulated in paint, tar
and varnish?

If you want to join "Master Mariners," you must have a traditional wooden
boat built using traditional materials and methods. Sort of the
"fundamentalists" of the wooden boat world. But this doesn't mean that a
*modern* wooden boat is not a *real* wooden boat, any more than saying that
a *real* wooden boat must be trunnel-fastened rather than screwed together.
An encapsulated wood boat is exactly that -- you cannot take the wood out of
the equation just because you object to it.

On the other hand, I would have no objection to calling such a boat a "Pergo
Boat," although the Pergo people might. Maybe not -- they produce a
magnificent product.

wooden liveaboard
 

But this doesn't mean that a
*modern* wooden boat is not a *real* wooden boat, any more than saying that
a *real* wooden boat must be trunnel-fastened rather than screwed together.

Excellent point ! I guess the folks who stretched skins over wood
frames and burt hollow logs would say that 1928 cavel planked troller
was not a true wood boat.

On the other hand, I would have no objection to calling such a boat a "Pergo
Boat," although the Pergo people might. Maybe not -- they produce a
magnificent product.

Dont tell any one but I got a plank of that composit backyard decking.
you know the stuff made of sawdust and plastic. Ripped it down for
use under a sail track. Its great stuff, cheep, UV protected, tough,
stable, sorta looks like wood, and availible everywhere. Goes great on
my plastic boat! Now to get that last bit of wood of her. Next on my
list to deep 6 are thoes teak grab rails on top the house.
Wood........... I hate the stuff. Its a pain in the ass!

But in my heart, epoxy + wood are not wood boats.

Bob

wooden liveaboard
 

"Bob" wrote in message
ups.com...

Dont tell any one but I got a plank of that composit backyard decking.
you know the stuff made of sawdust and plastic. Ripped it down for
use under a sail track. Its great stuff, cheep, UV protected, tough,
stable, sorta looks like wood, and availible everywhere. Goes great on
my plastic boat! Now to get that last bit of wood of her. Next on my
list to deep 6 are thoes teak grab rails on top the house.
Wood........... I hate the stuff. Its a pain in the ass!

But in my heart, epoxy + wood are not wood boats.

Bob


I plan to use that "PlasTeek" stuff to replace the wooden grabrails on
Essie. Not because I have a problem with keeping up with varnish on them
(relatively minor compared with the rest of my wood trim), but because I
don't want to put varnish on them -- too slippery for a hand-hold. A couple
of years ago I stripped them down to bare wood and treated them with
Penetrol, but I'd need to recoat them once a month or so in active sailing
and that's too much work for me. Don't know that I'd use it extensively, but
I do use Marine Grade HDPE all over the boat. It's great stuff, and nothing
will stick to it.

wooden liveaboard
 

KLC Lewis wrote:

I plan to use that "PlasTeek" stuff to replace the wooden grabrails on
Essie. Not because I have a problem with keeping up with varnish on them
(relatively minor compared with the rest of my wood trim), but because I
don't want to put varnish on them -- too slippery for a hand-hold. A couple
of years ago I stripped them down to bare wood and treated them with
Penetrol, but I'd need to recoat them once a month or so in active sailing
and that's too much work for me. Don't know that I'd use it extensively, but
I do use Marine Grade HDPE all over the boat. It's great stuff, and nothing
will stick to it.

No "PlasTeek" or real teak for me. Give me 316
Stainless steel handrails. Then all I've got to
do is keep them bedded so they don't leak ;-)

Don W.

wooden liveaboard
 

RW Salnick wrote:
But others have made the point: You had best be ready to do the work..
there will be a lot of it. Wooden boats want very much to turn back
into mulch. It will be your responsibility to stay ahead of this process.

All that taken into consideration, a well cared for wooden boat is
truely a thing of beauty...

Thanks for that Bob

Just a thought, but is the horrific amount of work on wooden boats
people keep talking about because their experiences have involved
maintaining varnished wood? I mean the boat I'm considering has no bare
wood at all. The superstructure is all made from ply and painted
several coats of battleship grey!

I know a few wooden dinghy owners who spend a lot of time sanding and
varnishing their dinghies, but surely if you just slap a load of paint
all over it that's lower maintenance than keeping up the healthy
polished wooden look? My boat in question is certainly not going to be
a great example of beautiful wood.