Hi group

OK, now I've exhausted my search around usenet and the wider web for
information on this topic I thought I'd post for some fresh thoughts and
ideas.

I'm considering buying a wooden boat as a liveaboard, and I have some
major concerns. Almost everyone I come across - surveyors, brokers,
finance houses, insurance companies, usenet posters - seems to balk at
it to lesser or greater degrees. It seems established that they require
regular and vigilant maintenance. I don't want to buy a money pit, and
two marinas I've come across are so fed up with people abandoning wooden
boats they won't allow them. Any thoughts on this?

I've been quoted GBP950 (about $1800) for a survey on the hard, and the
surveyor will do an initial walk-through to see if it's worth going
ahead even to that stage. It's 45 feet long, and is carvel constructed.
I don't yet know the year or specific hull material. The beams are
about 2" x 2". I'm going to go along tomorrow and try to have as many
of the floorboards up as possible so that I can go through with a
bradawl and check for sponginess.

Think I should not risk it and try and find myself a nice tongue in
cheekeasy/ steel-shell?

Biz

biz wrote:
Hi group

OK, now I've exhausted my search around usenet and the wider web for
information on this topic I thought I'd post for some fresh thoughts and
ideas.

I'm considering buying a wooden boat as a liveaboard, and I have some
major concerns. Almost everyone I come across - surveyors, brokers,
finance houses, insurance companies, usenet posters - seems to balk at
it to lesser or greater degrees. It seems established that they require
regular and vigilant maintenance. I don't want to buy a money pit, and
two marinas I've come across are so fed up with people abandoning wooden
boats they won't allow them. Any thoughts on this?

I've been quoted GBP950 (about $1800) for a survey on the hard, and the
surveyor will do an initial walk-through to see if it's worth going
ahead even to that stage. It's 45 feet long, and is carvel constructed.
I don't yet know the year or specific hull material. The beams are
about 2" x 2". I'm going to go along tomorrow and try to have as many
of the floorboards up as possible so that I can go through with a
bradawl and check for sponginess.

Think I should not risk it and try and find myself a nice tongue in
cheekeasy/ steel-shell?

Biz

There is nothing wrong with wooden boats except
that wood may deteriorate in water and is food for
some water creatures.

On the positive side:

1) they are easy to maintain if you know what
to do and how to do it.
2) The materials are easy to work with and
readily available.
3) Fairly large wooden boats are usually
available at a small fraction of the cost for a
similar fiberglass boat. (At our marina one of
the tenants was living aboard a 60' wooden boat
that was given to him after he rescued it when it
sank at the dock.)

In order to make them easier to maintain, some
wooden boat owners cover the outside of the hull
with a fairly thin layer of fiberglass to keep the
water and critters away. There are many workboats
that have been treated in this way.

If a wood boat is what you want, I'd say go ahead
and get one. You'll know within a few years
whether it is still what you want ;-)

Luck,

Don W.

Don W wrote:

In order to make them easier to maintain, some wooden boat owners cover
the outside of the hull with a fairly thin layer of fiberglass to keep
the water and critters away. There are many workboats that have been
treated in this way.

Thanks for that, Don. My very first foray into wooden boat maintenance
was to buy a 1950's GP14 sailing dinghy last summer. On telling an
expert it had been sheathed in glass fibre, his response was "it's a
write-off". He said the only reason you'd sheath a wooden boat in glass
is if the rot has gone beyond repair and you want to eek a couple more
seasons out of it.

Also, I thought glass would prevent the wood from expanding and lead to
it busting itself apart? It seems like such an easy solution, but I've
read that it's death to a wooden boat.

If a wood boat is what you want, I'd say go ahead and get one. You'll
know within a few years whether it is still what you want ;-)

My worst scenario is getting a loan to pay for the boat, being unable to
fund the ongoing repairs and maintenance and landing up with nowhere to
live. Quite a lot riding on the risk, you might think!!

It's been said that you don't own a wooden boat, you rent it.
At least boats you can't store inside.
"biz" wrote in message
...
Hi group

OK, now I've exhausted my search around usenet and the wider web for
information on this topic I thought I'd post for some fresh thoughts and
ideas.

I'm considering buying a wooden boat as a liveaboard, and I have some
major concerns. Almost everyone I come across - surveyors, brokers,
finance houses, insurance companies, usenet posters - seems to balk at it
to lesser or greater degrees. It seems established that they require
regular and vigilant maintenance. I don't want to buy a money pit, and
two marinas I've come across are so fed up with people abandoning wooden
boats they won't allow them. Any thoughts on this?

I've been quoted GBP950 (about $1800) for a survey on the hard, and the
surveyor will do an initial walk-through to see if it's worth going ahead
even to that stage. It's 45 feet long, and is carvel constructed. I don't
yet know the year or specific hull material. The beams are about 2" x 2".
I'm going to go along tomorrow and try to have as many of the floorboards
up as possible so that I can go through with a bradawl and check for
sponginess.

Think I should not risk it and try and find myself a nice tongue in
cheekeasy/ steel-shell?

Biz

"biz" wrote in message
...
Hi group

OK, now I've exhausted my search around usenet and the wider web for
information on this topic I thought I'd post for some fresh thoughts and
ideas.

I'm considering buying a wooden boat as a liveaboard, and I have some
major concerns. Almost everyone I come across - surveyors, brokers,
finance houses, insurance companies, usenet posters - seems to balk at it
to lesser or greater degrees. It seems established that they require
regular and vigilant maintenance. I don't want to buy a money pit, and
two marinas I've come across are so fed up with people abandoning wooden
boats they won't allow them. Any thoughts on this?

I've been quoted GBP950 (about $1800) for a survey on the hard, and the
surveyor will do an initial walk-through to see if it's worth going ahead
even to that stage. It's 45 feet long, and is carvel constructed. I don't
yet know the year or specific hull material. The beams are about 2" x 2".
I'm going to go along tomorrow and try to have as many of the floorboards
up as possible so that I can go through with a bradawl and check for
sponginess.

Think I should not risk it and try and find myself a nice tongue in
cheekeasy/ steel-shell?

Biz



Biz:

For about 20 years I was such a wooden boat nut I built a couple and
subscribed to WoodenBoat magazine religiously.

That's what it is. A religion.

Boats are built of wood because it was at one time the superior material.
Better than reeds (on the Nile) for example. Or hides. Even ships were
built of wood.

Until iron (first) and then steel came along.

And for smaller boats fiberglass.

Substitutions are usually made because a superior technology has emerged.

Sure, stick with wood for purposes of tradition and nostaglia. NOT for
practical reasons of maintenance and durability. And certainly not for
economy. Here, as everywhere, you get what you pay for.

So ponder first: do you want to be a boat maintainer? (I have a friend who
LOVES to take care of his wooden boat. Nothing wrong with that. That's his
hobby. He doesn't pretend to be a sailor.) Or do you want to spend more of
your time boating (or, for a liveaboard, living?)

The choice is clear if you REALLY know what you want.

Best,

Dick B.
M/V "Annie" (a fiberglass tugboat)

Hi:

Depends oun how you want to live....................... My step dad
fished a 58' wood dragger built in 1912 was repowerd
with a 6-71 in the early 50s (of course). F/V Madaline J. was a great
boat. Last I heard she was in the SF, CA area.

First, they are wood and live& last by breathing. Everything inside
will be much damper than a plastic boat. Your bread will smell like
disel. So your clothing and hair. Every thing will smell like boat! In
th pacific northwest (PNW) I can buy a 24'-40' wood salmon boat for
about $5,000-12,000. Most will have a 53 series Jimmy and were built
in 1930s -1950s. Excellent sea boats but, no mo fish so no mo use.
Would I buy one for a liveaboard???? U got 2 b nuts! Better live under
a bridge..... in the winter.... in a cardboard box...... Beside who
you going to get to replace planks, stems, and sister the ribs?

Plastic fantastic . Come on Barbie Lets go Pardy....................
Bob

There are still many boat made of wood along the coast of Maine. Last
summer, a traditional plank on frame yacht was launched not far from me.

No doubt a wooden boat requires more work. That is true.

If I were to look at a wooden boat, I would first look at the basics.
General condition. Rot. Type of wood construction. A strip plank
construction is easy to saturate with epoxy.

Unless the boat is beautiful, you should not offer much for it. The
insurance will be prohibitive.

What skills do you have? Are you a woodworker? Have you ever worked on a
wooden boat? Do you know about fastenings, rot, dead wood, keel, etc etc?

I saw an old wooden sailing boat that was for sail and she was in top notch
condition. Strip plank construction. Lots of epoxy saturation. Good paint
job. Updated engine, etc. She was beautiful. But even the owner told me
she was a lot of work. He loved her and hated her at the same time.

Another thing .. where are you planning on sailing? In the hot sun of
Florida, the decks, hull, everything starts to open up.

==========

I think you should move toward steel if you want affordable. Might not be
as pretty, but a simple metal hull can hold up.




"biz" wrote in message
...
Hi group

OK, now I've exhausted my search around usenet and the wider web for
information on this topic I thought I'd post for some fresh thoughts and
ideas.

I'm considering buying a wooden boat as a liveaboard, and I have some
major concerns. Almost everyone I come across - surveyors, brokers,
finance houses, insurance companies, usenet posters - seems to balk at it
to lesser or greater degrees. It seems established that they require
regular and vigilant maintenance. I don't want to buy a money pit, and
two marinas I've come across are so fed up with people abandoning wooden
boats they won't allow them. Any thoughts on this?

I've been quoted GBP950 (about $1800) for a survey on the hard, and the
surveyor will do an initial walk-through to see if it's worth going ahead
even to that stage. It's 45 feet long, and is carvel constructed. I don't
yet know the year or specific hull material. The beams are about 2" x 2".
I'm going to go along tomorrow and try to have as many of the floorboards
up as possible so that I can go through with a bradawl and check for
sponginess.

Think I should not risk it and try and find myself a nice tongue in
cheekeasy/ steel-shell?

Biz

On Mar 6, 7:03 pm, "NE Sailboat" wrote:



A strip plank
construction is easy to saturate with epoxy.
Strip plank construction. Lots of epoxy saturation. Good paint
job. Updated engine, etc. She was beautiful. But even the owner told me
she was a lot of work. He loved her and hated her at the same time.

What do you mean by "...strip plank construction... with lots of epoxy
saturation....?" I know of carvel and a couple others...... When I
think of a wood boat it does not include epoxy. Ugh, now you have a
plastic boat with wood fibers instead of glass fibers. Do you mean
"cold molding?" Strips of ceadar held together with epoxy that hang
over a firplace? In my humble opinion a wood boat is held together
with bronze and craftmanship................. Arg !
Okay, okay............... I'll go with double hot dipped galvanized.
good enough for a workboat.
Steam Box Bob

Bob wrote:
On Mar 6, 7:03 pm, "NE Sailboat" wrote:



A strip plank
construction is easy to saturate with epoxy.
Strip plank construction. Lots of epoxy saturation. Good paint
job. Updated engine, etc. She was beautiful. But even the owner
told me she was a lot of work. He loved her and hated her at the
same time.

What do you mean by "...strip plank construction... with lots of epoxy
saturation....?" I know of carvel and a couple others...... When I
think of a wood boat it does not include epoxy. Ugh, now you have a
plastic boat with wood fibers instead of glass fibers. Do you mean
"cold molding?" Strips of ceadar held together with epoxy that hang
over a firplace? In my humble opinion a wood boat is held together
with bronze and craftmanship................. Arg !
Okay, okay............... I'll go with double hot dipped galvanized.
good enough for a workboat.
Steam Box Bob

Different people mean different things by "strip planking".

Here in the UK it refers to the method used by the East German boatbuilders
when they built so many folkboats in the 1960's-1970's. Also Borrensen of
Denmark when he built those beautiful Dragon Class yachts around the same
period.

AFAIR, the hull consisted of oak or ash frames, 2" by 2", shaped or
laminated, and set at fairly frequent intervals. Narrow strip planking,
usually mahogany, and about 1/2" by 1", was used to cover the framework and
was nailed, using silicon-bronze barbed nails inserted vertically, i.e.
nailing the planks into the previously nailed plank. The planks were
fastened to the frames using silicon-bronze screws, plugged and glued to
match the planking. I am not sure if glue was used along the seams, but the
result was a much tighter and neater finish that traditional carvel
construction. The planks were very narrow, and the finish was varnished, and
impeccable. There was no caulking.

The Folkboat sold in vast quantities in the UK, and many are still sailing.
The cost was around £4500 for a complete sailboat with all equipment. The
Borrensen Dragon was the ultimate in appearance and construction and cost
around £7500 all up. Times have changed!

There is no problem maintaining a wooden boat so long as you don't want to
sail it!

Dennis.

Wood strip construction is strips of wood, say 2" by 2" which is screwed
together as it is assembled on the frame of the boat. The strips are also
screwed to the frame. Because you are using smaller pieces of wood than
carvel, no bending [ not much anyway ] and the strips are butted tight, so
no big seams to fill.

Check out the West System site. When Gougen [ spelling?? ] first got
started in epoxy, I believe they used the epoxy with strip plank.


"When I think of a wood boat it does not include epoxy. Ugh, now you have a
plastic boat with wood fibers instead of glass fibers. Do you mean "cold
molding?" ".

I am no expert but I think cold molding uses larger wood such as a plywood
layed across another piece of wood.

To your statement about epoxy and wood .. and the Ugh word.

Do you paint your wood? Would you paint your wood if you have a wood boat?

Epoxy is a good covering, better than paint. Both seal and protect. Epoxy
does it better.

Building a boat is similar to other building products. The builder uses
readily available material to build with.

Strip plank is a very good method of construction, popular with the home
builder.

I think you need to do some reading on wooden boats. Your ignorance of the
subject is evident.

============



"Bob" wrote in message
ps.com...
On Mar 6, 7:03 pm, "NE Sailboat" wrote:



A strip plank
construction is easy to saturate with epoxy.
Strip plank construction. Lots of epoxy saturation. Good paint
job. Updated engine, etc. She was beautiful. But even the owner told
me
she was a lot of work. He loved her and hated her at the same time.

What do you mean by "...strip plank construction... with lots of epoxy
saturation....?" I know of carvel and a couple others...... When I
think of a wood boat it does not include epoxy. Ugh, now you have a
plastic boat with wood fibers instead of glass fibers. Do you mean
"cold molding?" Strips of ceadar held together with epoxy that hang
over a firplace? In my humble opinion a wood boat is held together
with bronze and craftmanship................. Arg !
Okay, okay............... I'll go with double hot dipped galvanized.
good enough for a workboat.
Steam Box Bob