On 24 Mar 2007 16:50:30 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:

With a single outboard, you can realize some pretty impressive speeds
when in the "powerboat mode".

Strangely enough, this hardly interests me, although since it's there
I'll probably make use of it at one time or another. I'm really not
at all interested in speed, and would be content with a trawler or
tug if that could happily meet my finances. My goals have a lot
vested in economy. Sails suit that well with the silent pleasure
aspect of sailing thrown in.

As far as interior accommodation goes- that small cockpit that
restricts your fishing room translates into about 3 times the interior
cabin room of most 26-foot powerboats.

Good point, and one I easily forget when thinking about how I'm going
to fish from that boat. I *really* need some hands-on time.

As you can see, there are certain brands of boats (usually among the
more moderately priced) where ownership comes with a steady barrage of
nasty comments from nasty people who can't wait to tell you what a
dunce you were for not buying whatever brand they happen to own. I
have to wonder how many people wind up buying a beat up old hulk with
an "acceptable" trade name on it just to avoid dealing with such
jerks?

Or a new Honda instead of a used Chevy (-:
Being a used Chevy guy, my skin deflects all arrows.
And has some bearing on why I can afford a boat in the first place!

I still think you'd be no worse off with a new Mac 26, (given the rest
of your requirements) than you would be with a 1979 version of a
"real" sailboat (with "real" headaches) for maybe the same kind of
money.

Thanks for your comments, Chuck.

--Vic

On 24 Mar 2007 18:13:21 -0700, "Two meter troll"
wrote:

Any ways you got good advice from a bunch of folks: since i do not
"sail" but was on ships for most of my life.

I'll sure remember what you said about wiring.

I would say the other leg of this stool is to go a talk to some of the
folks down on the gulf coast of florida and on up to texas face to
face and ask questions. if this boat is not going to be anyplace else
you might not need what you think you need.
2MT

Sounds like an excellent idea. And a nice vacation too!

--Vic

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:48:24 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

Now I want to try that Flying Scot, but I've got no
doubt it'll make the Max 26 feel like a dog under sail.

More like 3 dogs :-)

The Flying Scot will run circles around it.

The mac 26 is just too big a compromise in my opinion. Most people
end up using them under power most of the time, and they aren't nearly
as well suited for that as a real power boat.



Far from defending the Mac26, I will say that there are situations when it
seems to be appropriate. For example, I know a couple who have one, and they
almost exclusively explore the marshland near a community in the SF bayarea.
They don't venture out onto the bay much... perhaps 5 percent of the time
and then only in the south bay. They like bird watching and don't want to
kayak, since they stay out for a couple of days in a row. I think they do
sail it a bit, but mostly they motor very slowly hither and yon.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Vic Smith wrote:


Thanks. Nice boat, but might be a bit rich for my blood. Hadn't seen
it before even with all my browsing. You may be right on target
though, and I take your advice to try out what I'm buying before I buy
it to heart. You gave me another avenue to explore.
Although I'm not young, I'm still in pretty good shape, and do like
the idea of sailing, having crewed some.

--Vic

Heck, Vic.

My boat is smaller that that - a LOT smaller - and we do fine for
a few nights.

Who you are with makes a big difference.

Richard

On Mar 24, 6:52�pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:48:24 -0600, Vic Smith

wrote:
Now I want to try that Flying Scot, but I've got no
doubt it'll make the Max 26 feel like a dog under sail.

More like 3 dogs * *:-)

The Flying Scot will run circles around it.

The mac 26 is just too big a compromise in my opinion. *Most people
end up using them under power most of the time, and they aren't nearly
as well suited for that as a real power boat.

Good observation.

It may be regionally significant, or not. The best months for sailing
in my region are when it's pretty cold and still peeing down rain in
the spring and fall. The winds don't come up until late in the
afternoon a lot of midsummer days when the weather is warmer.

As a result, most of the sailboats in this corner of the country
operate under power most of the time. Sailing seems to be reserved for
racing, or for screwing around with for an hour or two after arriving
in the general vicinity of the ultimate daily destination. Of course
there are scattered exceptions, just enough to prove the rule. From
that respect, a MacGregor that spent most of its time in powerboat
mode wouldn't vary much from a more elite brand doing the same thing.

If I were interested in sailing, I'd consider a Mac, too. I think you'd be
happy with it: it's not expensive and it will do the job. I read a review on
it years ago, and the only thing I remember as a possible disadvantage was
the hardware not being the best or sturdiest.

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On 24 Mar 2007 16:50:30 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:

With a single outboard, you can realize some pretty impressive speeds
when in the "powerboat mode".

Strangely enough, this hardly interests me, although since it's there
I'll probably make use of it at one time or another. I'm really not
at all interested in speed, and would be content with a trawler or
tug if that could happily meet my finances. My goals have a lot
vested in economy. Sails suit that well with the silent pleasure
aspect of sailing thrown in.

As far as interior accommodation goes- that small cockpit that
restricts your fishing room translates into about 3 times the interior
cabin room of most 26-foot powerboats.

Good point, and one I easily forget when thinking about how I'm going
to fish from that boat. I *really* need some hands-on time.

As you can see, there are certain brands of boats (usually among the
more moderately priced) where ownership comes with a steady barrage of
nasty comments from nasty people who can't wait to tell you what a
dunce you were for not buying whatever brand they happen to own. I
have to wonder how many people wind up buying a beat up old hulk with
an "acceptable" trade name on it just to avoid dealing with such
jerks?

Or a new Honda instead of a used Chevy (-:
Being a used Chevy guy, my skin deflects all arrows.
And has some bearing on why I can afford a boat in the first place!

I still think you'd be no worse off with a new Mac 26, (given the rest
of your requirements) than you would be with a 1979 version of a
"real" sailboat (with "real" headaches) for maybe the same kind of
money.

Thanks for your comments, Chuck.

--Vic

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 24, 6:52?pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:48:24 -0600, Vic Smith

wrote:
Good observation.

It may be regionally significant, or not. The best months for sailing
in my region are when it's pretty cold and still peeing down rain in
the spring and fall. The winds don't come up until late in the
afternoon a lot of midsummer days when the weather is warmer.

As a result, most of the sailboats in this corner of the country
operate under power most of the time. Sailing seems to be reserved for
racing, or for screwing around with for an hour or two after arriving
in the general vicinity of the ultimate daily destination. Of course
there are scattered exceptions, just enough to prove the rule. From
that respect, a MacGregor that spent most of its time in powerboat
mode wouldn't vary much from a more elite brand doing the same thing.


That's a real shame. here we can count on the usual South West winds to
come up around 1000 hrs and last until 1900 hrs.
We would go a whole season on a tank of diesel.

On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 21:52:12 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:48:24 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

Now I want to try that Flying Scot, but I've got no
doubt it'll make the Max 26 feel like a dog under sail.

More like 3 dogs :-)

The Flying Scot will run circles around it.

The mac 26 is just too big a compromise in my opinion. Most people
end up using them under power most of the time, and they aren't nearly
as well suited for that as a real power boat.

Your opinion noted and respected.
I've spent considerable time reading the Mac forum and other sail
forums, including ASA. You're right about Mac 26's being used mostly
under power, but the same is true for all cruising sailboats, Mac or
not. The Mac just powers better.
I've read post after post from non-Mac cruising sailors who hardly
ever sail! They are frank when informal surveys are done.
Not enough wind to hoist sail. Too windy to hoist sail. ICW
unsuitable for sailing. Easier to just crank up the motor. Don't
want to beat against the wind. Prefer not to heel too much because
the drinks get spilled. And on and on. Others are marina or hook
sailors who seemingly *never* sail, but write posts about sailing
quite a bit, much as I'm doing and I don't even have a boat!
Just as a rough estimate from my reading, I'd say Mac owners spend
more time out in the water moving than the average sailboat owner.
Some of the Mac owners sail quite a bit and enjoy it. Some
of them have been sailing all their lives on quicker boats but still
are happy to sail their Macs. Since I'm not a sailing purist, and
have vowed never to be in a hurry, I have no problem with the Mac
being slow. I'll give a friendly wave to those who pass and leave
them to feel like happy because they passed a Mac. Since you were a
racing sailor, you may have difficulty connecting to that mindset.
Of course, maybe I'll trouble with it to when I get to sailing.
Bottom line is you want to sail, you hoist sail. If you want to race
under sail and brag about it, don't get a Mac.
Actually, on the power cruiser side, there seems to be even less
compromise.
Like sailers, power cruisers come in many flavors. Speed, cabin
size, fishing suitability, economy and weather handling quickly come
to mind. The Mac is again slow to the speedster, probably doing
12-15 knots with a cruising load and 50hp. Still faster than tugs and
trawlers at better economy. Might get superb MPG if powered right and
kept below hull speed. Most owners don't use it that way.
It's not a good fishing platform. It's better in weather than an open
boat and at least equal to a similarly priced power cruiser.
The cabin space is voluminous compared to motor cruisers of the same
length, though buried below deck and not well appointed stock.
The power cruiser aspect is what got me interested in the Mac in the
first place, when I realized that if I went with the Carolina Skiff my
sense of gas economy and no need for speed would have me running
it off plane. So in considering economical hull types I reached the
Mac, which might be called a semi-displacement hull, and has many
advantages over the Carolina Skiff in my eyes, though it's 8-10k more.
That's where I am now, compromised. And it's fun enough.
I've worn this subject out for now, and other facts are intervening.
Was going to Punta Gorda first week of April and try out some boats,
but I've been offered a six month contract that will probably draw me
out of retirement, which is good and bad.
Bad because I don't like work, good because I can get more boat.
Since in six months I might be too old to handle sail and have more
money too, that RF246 might look sweeter yet.
If I'm stuck here I'll call some sailing contacts and maybe crew on
Lake Michigan some weekends this summer to get a better picture.
Gosh, I hope I don't get seasick. That'll screw things up real good.

--Vic

On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 08:37:10 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 13:32:11 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

As I do extensive reading in trying to select what boat will suit me
best, I realize just how much fun boating is.
And I haven't even left the basement!
Right now I'm leaning toward the MacGregor 26M.
Might be new, might be used. It's usually called a "motor sailor"
It's a high volume boat, inexpensive, and generally frowned upon by
the "high speed" sailing crowd. When under sail it doesn't perform as
well as dedicated sailboats, though no single keel sailboat of similar
size is exactly a speed demon.

A bloke in the next slip to me, when I was in Singapore, had a brand
new MG. From talking to him it appeared that he had done considerable
sailing in the U.K. but his wife was Asian and had never been at sea.

They sailed the boat every weekend for the month or so I was there and
finally decided to sell the boat as winds in SEA are really not
reliable enough to make sailing interesting. Bought a power boat.

However, they liked the boat. Small, fast under power. A bit spartan
but fine for weekends. Not a boat for ocean voyages but nice enough
for short trips.

I would guess that if you have really, really, considered the
strengths and weaknesses of the boat and feel that the strengths
outweigh the weaknesses then it will be fine. A canoe just won;t do to
cross oceans and a 50 ft. sailing yacht isn't the thing for
gunk-holing.

Right. I'm not going to do an impulse buy.
Didn't realize finding sailing wind was such a problem until recently.
Here on Lake Michigan near Chicago calm is fairly rare, though it
spoils the occasional weekend day for sailors.
The times I've spent in Florida, always in the summer, there's
generally a good breeze off shore. Maybe too much for a Mac (-:
But the vagaries of sailing weather is probably one reason Mac sells
so many of this type boat. I think the main reason though is the
boat is versatile and inexpensive. Though I've never cared a whit
about skiing and tubing, many families enjoy doing it with their kids.
As a value proposition the boat works well indeed.

--Vic

On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 03:41:40 GMT, cavelamb himself
wrote:

Vic Smith wrote:


Thanks. Nice boat, but might be a bit rich for my blood. Hadn't seen
it before even with all my browsing. You may be right on target
though, and I take your advice to try out what I'm buying before I buy
it to heart. You gave me another avenue to explore.
Although I'm not young, I'm still in pretty good shape, and do like
the idea of sailing, having crewed some.

--Vic

Heck, Vic.

My boat is smaller that that - a LOT smaller - and we do fine for
a few nights.

Yeah, everybody has different preferences. And I'm old enough to know
better than commit to any dream world without trying it first.

Who you are with makes a big difference.

Got that covered. But then there's the other half who might
think different when she's locked on the same boat with me for days on
end. Wait a minute, maybe I don't have that covered myself!

--Vic