"Vic Smith" my brain wrote in message
...
big snip to remove thinly-disguised and transparant advert for
MacGregor junk
But please don't make my ears turn red. OTOH, since I'm an old
navy guy, that might be impossible.

--Vic

An old navy guy? Sure you are, Vic. I bet Nathan Branden is your best
friend.

Wilbur Hubbard

As I do extensive reading in trying to select what boat will suit me
best, I realize just how much fun boating is.
And I haven't even left the basement!
Right now I'm leaning toward the MacGregor 26M.
Might be new, might be used. It's usually called a "motor sailor"
It's a high volume boat, inexpensive, and generally frowned upon by
the "high speed" sailing crowd. When under sail it doesn't perform as
well as dedicated sailboats, though no single keel sailboat of similar
size is exactly a speed demon.
Some of the Mac's sailing performance deficit is inherent in its dual
purpose design, and some appears to be because those who buy this Mac
are not hard core sailors, and don't lend much effort to getting the
most of its sailing capabilities.
Everybody has different preferences in what they want from a boat, and
I'm laying out some of mine here. They might change when I get more
experience, and they are in the end a balancing act, as always.
-- Sailing area. The boat will be used exclusively to cruise the west
coast of Florida, from the panhandle to the Keys.
-- Purpose. Slow cruising and fishing. Hook swinging in shallow,
sheltered areas, exploring islands. Shallow draft (+-18") is
essential for this, and I won't bend here. I don't dinghy. Had
enough dinghying/whaleboating when I was in the navy.
On the fishing side it looks like the Mac cockpit is small, and
freeboard all around is high, so it's sure not the best fishing
platform, but I could fish off a jetski, so it's not a deal killer.
Cruising might be a month out from home port, and I'll cover that
under other categories. Might get some subjects confused in a
category, but I'll do my best to keep organized.
-- Economy. My purchase/equip budget is @30k. But that's if ongoing
costs aren't going to eat me up.
The Mac is trailerable, so when not in use it can be stored at
relatively low cost.
Despite its detractors, the Mac can move under sail from one place to
another. It might be tender, it might not point well, etc, etc. No
fuel used under sail.
Under power at less than hull speed, I believe the boat is a fuel
miser compared to similar sized power boats and heavier
but similar sized sailboats. When wind on the freeboard affects
that economy, there's probably wind to sail instead.
On the economy related new/used issue, I'll make my points under
the construction topic.
--Livability. I just don't have the experience here, from what I've
read the Mac is as comfortable as any 26. Since I've tented for
weeks at a time, I don't see a problem with it. I'm not going to be
living on the boat. Me and the wife on 2-6 week cruises, and we
are not tall, and not fat.
--Construction. I've seen many "better" sailboats recommended by the
"real" sailors to those considering the Mac 26M. This in order to get
a "real" used sailboat for the price of a new Mac.
When I started looking at some of the recommendations I found most
are boats 20-40 years old. There might be a problem even getting
insurance on these.
Besides, who wants a decrepit (insert pet sailboat here),
mildew-stinking, stringer rotting, engine-dying, sail-rotting,
barnicle-embedded, crap-in-the-bilge old ill-maintained boat when you
can get a new Mac? Some of these sailors bragging about how well
their cachet-name sailboat is maintained probably don't do anything
but shine brightwork, and leave Brasso swirls when doing that.
Besides that, some of these boats are floating supported by 1/8" of
glass over 1/4" of chopper-gun crud over a layer of poorly wetted
cloth.
From what I've read the production process used in building the Mac
has more QC than most boat builders use. I still don't know enough
about that and other construction details to buy one, but I can find
out, even if I have to visit the plant. No teak, plenty of minor
fit/finish complaints, light hardware, etc.
A solid boat suitable for my purposes, or so it seems.
Anyway, even an experienced surveyor can't always find the real
quality of a boat. Somebody recommended the Parker-Dawson 26
over the Mac and when I looked for info I found owners discovering
deck cleats had not even large washers as backing. One came adrift
because of this and he lost the boat on the rocks.
http://www.parkerdawson.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=288
Now I'm not knocking this boat, just saying even a new boat must be
gone over with a fine toothed comb, and an old boat may have well
concealed problems that won't be found without taking it apart
If they weren't questionable due to age, I'd much prefer a Dawson over
a Mac. Of course they were 40k new in 1983, and cross oceans.
Some people are willing to buy an old boat and spend a lot of time
bringing it up to snuff. Not only do I not have the time or
inclination, I get irritable when pulling off half-assed or unsuitable
mods.
So besides the issue of how a boat has been maintained and whether
initial construction is going to bite you, there is the "clean slate"
factor in making modifications. This is possible even with a used
recent Mac 26, because they aren't normally used as liveaboards
and probably not much as overnighters.
From perusing the Mac site I see some have added air, gensets,
dodgers, extra fresh water, etc. The cabin is an open design from
the factory with minimal cabinetry.
When first looking at sailers, I tended toward a small diesel for
economy when motoring. But now I think the lost interior space and
maintenance/cost issues of the diesel in a 26' boat make me lean in
favor of a small 4-stroke on the transom.
Just as most sailboaters recommend against the Mac 26M, the owners
of the Mac 26M generally recommend max HP OB. I'm not buying that
either, since I won't be pulling tubes or skis as many of them do, or
be in a hurry as many of them are.
I'll be looking for my balance between sailing and powering in terms
of OB weight. Depending on tradeoffs, I'm not even sure I would get
the boat on plane, which is one of its hull-type selling points.
I had originally thought along the lines of a 24' Carolina Skiff for
mostly short fishing trips, maybe some hook swinging under a popup
which some CS owners do. The CS is another economical, shallow draft
and highly modifiable boat.
But on a price/versatily basis the Mac has the CS beat - for me.
Anyway, I'm still learning and all ears for any comments. But please
don't make my ears turn red. OTOH, since I'm an old navy guy, that
might be impossible.

--Vic




..

On Mar 24, 2:15 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
"Vic Smith" my brain wrote in messagenews:3qta03hvvu4h42k6s9tndks71gfi69aio8@4ax .com...
big snip to remove thinly-disguised and transparant advert for
MacGregor junk

But please don't make my ears turn red. OTOH, since I'm an old
navy guy, that might be impossible.

--Vic

An old navy guy? Sure you are, Vic. I bet Nathan Branden is your best
friend.

Wilbur Hubbard

Was Nathaniel Branden in the Navy?

snip might be impossible.

--Vic

.

Well this one I have a little bit of experiance with; used boat = rip
every stitch of wire out of the boat and re run it all.
In my experiance the problems i have had on most boats have been with
wireing and standing rigging.
standing rig i usually have enough stuff to fix it on hand. but a
short or a loose wire in the bilge etc can cause things to go
gunnybags at the wrong time. most of the electrical is coverd up so
you cannot see what is wired correctly and what is not .

2MT

On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 13:32:11 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

--Livability. I just don't have the experience here, from what I've
read the Mac is as comfortable as any 26. Since I've tented for
weeks at a time, I don't see a problem with it. I'm not going to be
living on the boat. Me and the wife on 2-6 week cruises, and we
are not tall, and not fat.

With all due respect, that boat will get very small for two people
after a few days of cruising. I appreciate what you are trying to do
but I hate to see you spend money on a boat that neither sails, motors
or cruises very well. See if you can rent one for a week before you
buy.

In the long run I think you'd be happier with something like a RF246
with a 4 stroke outboard on it.

http://www.rosboroughboats.com/

Try to find a good used one.

..

Vic Smith wrote:
On 24 Mar 2007 13:24:03 -0700, "Tim" wrote:

On Mar 24, 2:15 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
"Vic Smith" my brain wrote in messagenews:3qta03hvvu4h42k6s9tndks71gfi69aio8@4ax .com...
big snip to remove thinly-disguised and transparant advert for
MacGregor junk

But please don't make my ears turn red. OTOH, since I'm an old
navy guy, that might be impossible.
--Vic
An old navy guy? Sure you are, Vic. I bet Nathan Branden is your best
friend.

Wilbur Hubbard
Was Nathaniel Branden in the Navy?

I knew a Branden in boot camp, but maybe it was Brandon.
We never used first names, so I have no idea on that.
Too busy boating right now to look in the boot camp book.

--Vic


I believe the Branden referred to here was a follower of Ayn Rand,
originator of the most turgid bits of pseudo-philosophy and prose ever
perpetrated on mankind. Or close to it.

On 24 Mar 2007 13:30:00 -0700, "Two meter troll"
wrote:

Well this one I have a little bit of experiance with; used boat = rip
every stitch of wire out of the boat and re run it all.
In my experiance the problems i have had on most boats have been with
wireing and standing rigging.
standing rig i usually have enough stuff to fix it on hand. but a
short or a loose wire in the bilge etc can cause things to go
gunnybags at the wrong time. most of the electrical is coverd up so
you cannot see what is wired correctly and what is not .

Rewiring an old boat first off would be my inclination too.
20-40 year-old wire, and 20-40 years of hatchet jobs done
to the wiring by "sailors." No thanks! .
Even on a new Mac 26M first thing you do if you intend
electrical additions is toss the stock electric panel and
get a beefier one that fits your needs.

--Vic

On 24 Mar 2007 13:24:03 -0700, "Tim" wrote:

On Mar 24, 2:15 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
"Vic Smith" my brain wrote in messagenews:3qta03hvvu4h42k6s9tndks71gfi69aio8@4ax .com...
big snip to remove thinly-disguised and transparant advert for
MacGregor junk

But please don't make my ears turn red. OTOH, since I'm an old
navy guy, that might be impossible.

--Vic

An old navy guy? Sure you are, Vic. I bet Nathan Branden is your best
friend.

Wilbur Hubbard

Was Nathaniel Branden in the Navy?

I knew a Branden in boot camp, but maybe it was Brandon.
We never used first names, so I have no idea on that.
Too busy boating right now to look in the boot camp book.

--Vic

On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 16:44:46 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

Although I'm not young, I'm still in pretty good shape, and do like
the idea of sailing, having crewed some.

Sure, sailing is great fun but it is difficult to get a boat that
sails well and cruises well, and still meets your shallow draft
requirement. You might want to get an inexpensive day sailor just as
a fun boat. There are lots to choose from, but one of my choices
would be a Flying Scot.

http://www.flyingscot.com/

They are good boats that sail very well and meet your specs with the
exception of cruising. You can beach them and go tent camping of
course. I'm guessing you could pick up a good used one with trailer
for less than $5K.

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:55:47 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

Vic Smith wrote:


I knew a Branden in boot camp, but maybe it was Brandon.
We never used first names, so I have no idea on that.
Too busy boating right now to look in the boot camp book.

--Vic


I believe the Branden referred to here was a follower of Ayn Rand,
originator of the most turgid bits of pseudo-philosophy and prose ever
perpetrated on mankind. Or close to it.

I started reading Atlas Shrugged once. Started. Quite a contrast in
the work of a Dostoevsky writing Crime and Punishment, and a Rand
writing her crap, though both were essentially writing about nihilism.
Dostoevsky knew what he was doing, however, in C and P.
There's a guy posting in the ASA group using the Branden moniker.
I don't bother with him either.

--Vic

It shows that you never bothered learning just about anything. A Mac26?
A Mac26? Bwahahahahhahahahhahahahhahahhahahahhahahahhahahah ahah! Were
you a WAVE in the Navy?

Wilbur Hubbard

Wilbur Hubbard