On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:18:48 +0000, Ed wrote:

One reason for not going I/O in florida is that fact that we have a 12 month
season. An I/O has a finite time in the salt water and since our boats are in
the water 3x those of northern boats, the I/O will get trashed faster. An
outboard can be lifted 100% out of the water when not in use.

Nope, not so. Here on the West Coast our season is pretty much 12 months as
well. I was referring to the boats in the marinas, that are in salt water 24/7/364
(one day a year to scrape'n'paint). Don't know of anyone that pulls their boat
out "for the winter" - winterizing is mainly put a tarp on it, maybe add a
heater.

However, one difference might be that due to lower water temps, the drive
doesn't gunk up as fast. Also, there seems to be a feeling in SE US that salt
water is like acid - perhaps your water is saltier?

Also, based on pics I've seen of SE US, the average age of boats around here is
MUCH older, so for most of these, the only way to get 4-stroke was to go I/O.
I'm slowly seeing the workboats converting to 4-stroke outboards, but most of
them are still I/O (those that aren't true inboards or diesels)

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36

Hi Lloyd,
Another reason for greater longevity in the northwest is the "blessing" of
colder water. Each 10 Celsius ( 18 F)will double rate of corrosion.
I'd guess I/Os will last forever in the Bay of Fundy.

surfnturf


"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:18:48 +0000, Ed wrote:

One reason for not going I/O in florida is that fact that we have a 12
month
season. An I/O has a finite time in the salt water and since our boats
are in
the water 3x those of northern boats, the I/O will get trashed faster.
An
outboard can be lifted 100% out of the water when not in use.

Nope, not so. Here on the West Coast our season is pretty much 12 months
as
well. I was referring to the boats in the marinas, that are in salt water
24/7/364
(one day a year to scrape'n'paint). Don't know of anyone that pulls their
boat
out "for the winter" - winterizing is mainly put a tarp on it, maybe add a
heater.

However, one difference might be that due to lower water temps, the drive
doesn't gunk up as fast. Also, there seems to be a feeling in SE US that
salt
water is like acid - perhaps your water is saltier?

Also, based on pics I've seen of SE US, the average age of boats around
here is
MUCH older, so for most of these, the only way to get 4-stroke was to go
I/O.
I'm slowly seeing the workboats converting to 4-stroke outboards, but most
of
them are still I/O (those that aren't true inboards or diesels)

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36

Hi Lloyd,
Another reason for greater longevity in the northwest is the "blessing" of
colder water. Each 10 Celsius ( 18 F)will double rate of corrosion.
I'd guess I/Os will last forever in the Bay of Fundy.

surfnturf


"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:18:48 +0000, Ed wrote:

One reason for not going I/O in florida is that fact that we have a 12
month
season. An I/O has a finite time in the salt water and since our boats
are in
the water 3x those of northern boats, the I/O will get trashed faster.
An
outboard can be lifted 100% out of the water when not in use.

Nope, not so. Here on the West Coast our season is pretty much 12 months
as
well. I was referring to the boats in the marinas, that are in salt water
24/7/364
(one day a year to scrape'n'paint). Don't know of anyone that pulls their
boat
out "for the winter" - winterizing is mainly put a tarp on it, maybe add a
heater.

However, one difference might be that due to lower water temps, the drive
doesn't gunk up as fast. Also, there seems to be a feeling in SE US that
salt
water is like acid - perhaps your water is saltier?

Also, based on pics I've seen of SE US, the average age of boats around
here is
MUCH older, so for most of these, the only way to get 4-stroke was to go
I/O.
I'm slowly seeing the workboats converting to 4-stroke outboards, but most
of
them are still I/O (those that aren't true inboards or diesels)

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36

Carlos,

Ed, Paul etc. make some very good points. However, I would like to offer
some alternate views. Even though I grew up on the water in Pakistan and
was on boats a lot as a kid, it was after living in the USA 8 years that I
moved from Manhattan to Long Island. I had NEVER thought of myself as a
boater - as a kid I always wanted to be an Air Force guy not a Navy guy :-)
- but I was lucky enough to build a dream home on the South Shore of Long
Island in NY which is in a private boating community with a marina. So, NOT
having a boat was not an option any more. :-)

I decided to buy my first boat ever as a NEW boat, a SeaRay Sundancer 230. I
am really happy I made that decision 9 seasons ago. Even though it is a
single engine boat, I have gone from Bellport/Patchogue where I live to
Manhattan (when the WTC still stood and offered an incredibly beautiful
approach view - check http://imran.com and MY WTC) on the West and Shelter
Island etc. on the East, for overnight trips too. (Check
http://www.imran.com/boating/ )

I am delighted I bought a new boat, as I spent time learning and playing and
using and boating, rather than fixing and repairing and wondering.

I am delighted I did not buy my first boat as a 17' footer or something, as
I was able to learn and go far beyond what I would have done with that size.
At the same time, I am also glad I did not buy a 32-40 feet long boat or
something like that, as I was able to enjoy putting more hours on my 23'
boat than all my 20 or so boat-owner neighbors with bigger boats combined. I
am serious.

With the SeaRay Sundancer 230 (now they have 240s) allowed me to stay out as
many as FOURTEEN NIGHTS (not continuous of course) one year (when summer was
really great as opposed to this year), at places like Old Inlet at Fire
Island because it has a cabin and aft cabin, a standup head, a stove,
running water, etc. It also allowed me to go out to enjoy sunsets even if
the water was a little "bobby" as I call it, when a 17 feet boat would not
be having as much fun.

Now I am also fortunate to have a winter place on Singer Island, FL, and was
tempted to move the SeaRay there by truck and keep it in dry dock and use
when I am down there on weekends. Interestingly, the cost of moving it
there, about $1200, plus the dry dock ($200 x 6 months) $1200 and moving
back to NY next summer for $1200 would have totaled $3600, which is what it
ends up costing me to have a marina in NY haul, service, winterize, store,
and relaunch the boat next year. I am still toying with the idea but also
considering changing boats as the SeaRay has served me well for 9 Years but
I also want to be able to venture out further and to entertain more on the
boat.

I am DELIGHTED I was lucky enough to get a new boat - as I knew everything
worked the way it was supposed. One cannot and should not make a decision
to buy a boat based on assuming one is going to bang it up. Why would one
buy a new car then? After all, it will get dinged in the parking lot and
people do have accidents too.

The first thing I did on taking delivery of the boat at Surfside 3 marina
was to welcome on board a gentleman named Captain Glen, who they had
arranged to show me the ropes and it was the best $200 investment in getting
the boat from Lindenhurst NY to Patchogue NY. I learnt more in that 2 hour
time with him than I would have done in 20 hours or boating.

Since docking a single engine boat is no easy feat for a newbie, the BEST
$200 I EVER spent in boating was to invite him back for one more 2 hour
session to show me docking and by the grace of God, when I had been boating
for a few weeks I had a neighbor who is boating for a dozen years come ask
me to teach him how to dock. I am serious. Not that I am good, but that
people can be bad dockers because they do not make the effort to get someone
to teach them.

The third time I saw Captain Glen was when I wanted to go to Manhattan, NY.
I asked him how much would he charge for that (much longer trip) and he made
me a great offer. If he could bring his wife along for the trip he would
charge me nothing. It was a deal I have not regretted. We enjoyed a perfect
(day) trip to Manhattan, literally 2-3 weeks after I had the boat, and it
was an incredible learning experience too. It included the inland waterway,
going under drawbridges, and even a run on the open ocean along the beach.

Another great lesson was how quickly weather can change - and we were able
to get back home that evening by 7 PM or so, safe and without worry on my
part as I had an experienced teacher on board.

Over the last 9 years, have I "banged" the boat? Not really. Has it made the
acquaintance of small protruding nails in pilings at marinas? Yes, but
nothing that would keep me from getting a new boat. The Mercruiser 5.0L I/O
has worked perfectly and has 555 hours on it (only 8 hours this year due to
lousy summer).

The 230 is/was a perfect size boat for me, perfect for the Great South Bay
(and pulling up into shallow water to wade to popular and filled up marinas
in summer) and for touching the ocean regularly and even going to Manhattan
NY and NJ. I would easily also have used it in FL but would never think
about taking it out to a long ocean trip. I am glad I got it new. And, God
(and banks ;-) ) willing, some day hope to get a bigger new boat but with
twin engines, so I can explore more of this great East Coast we live on
NY-FL.

I would buy a used boat for monetary reasons - or if I wanted to get a much
bigger boat that I would use much less. E.g. A new SeaRay Sundancer 36 feet
long 320 vs. say a 46 feet long older boat about 5-10 years old....the
bigger boat would also be useful if I was married with children or a
grandparent.

Just get the best boat you can sensibly afford but make the effort to get a
good Captain to show you how to be a safe and a good boater. That $200-600
over a few weeks will be the best investment you can make, no matter what
size or what year boat you get.

Hope this helps.

Imran Anwar
http://www.imran.TV (for CNN and Fox News interviews)

PS Lastly, make sure to join an organization like Boat/US and take advantage
of the services they offer. I do not work for or have any business dealings
with any of the companies mentioned in this posting.


On 11/9/03 1:19 PM, in article ,
"Kharlosan" wrote:

Hi all, I am not a boater yet but I am planning to be one very soon.
I live in South Florida and I think the kind of boat that fit in my desires is
a new Walk Around between 22 and 23 feet.
The advice I need is about the manufacturer brand I should consider, Outboard
or I/O, 4 or 2 strokes. Please let me know the reasons of your recommendations
and share your experiences.
Any other suggestion will be greatly appreciated.
Regards.
Carlos

Carlos,

Ed, Paul etc. make some very good points. However, I would like to offer
some alternate views. Even though I grew up on the water in Pakistan and
was on boats a lot as a kid, it was after living in the USA 8 years that I
moved from Manhattan to Long Island. I had NEVER thought of myself as a
boater - as a kid I always wanted to be an Air Force guy not a Navy guy :-)
- but I was lucky enough to build a dream home on the South Shore of Long
Island in NY which is in a private boating community with a marina. So, NOT
having a boat was not an option any more. :-)

I decided to buy my first boat ever as a NEW boat, a SeaRay Sundancer 230. I
am really happy I made that decision 9 seasons ago. Even though it is a
single engine boat, I have gone from Bellport/Patchogue where I live to
Manhattan (when the WTC still stood and offered an incredibly beautiful
approach view - check http://imran.com and MY WTC) on the West and Shelter
Island etc. on the East, for overnight trips too. (Check
http://www.imran.com/boating/ )

I am delighted I bought a new boat, as I spent time learning and playing and
using and boating, rather than fixing and repairing and wondering.

I am delighted I did not buy my first boat as a 17' footer or something, as
I was able to learn and go far beyond what I would have done with that size.
At the same time, I am also glad I did not buy a 32-40 feet long boat or
something like that, as I was able to enjoy putting more hours on my 23'
boat than all my 20 or so boat-owner neighbors with bigger boats combined. I
am serious.

With the SeaRay Sundancer 230 (now they have 240s) allowed me to stay out as
many as FOURTEEN NIGHTS (not continuous of course) one year (when summer was
really great as opposed to this year), at places like Old Inlet at Fire
Island because it has a cabin and aft cabin, a standup head, a stove,
running water, etc. It also allowed me to go out to enjoy sunsets even if
the water was a little "bobby" as I call it, when a 17 feet boat would not
be having as much fun.

Now I am also fortunate to have a winter place on Singer Island, FL, and was
tempted to move the SeaRay there by truck and keep it in dry dock and use
when I am down there on weekends. Interestingly, the cost of moving it
there, about $1200, plus the dry dock ($200 x 6 months) $1200 and moving
back to NY next summer for $1200 would have totaled $3600, which is what it
ends up costing me to have a marina in NY haul, service, winterize, store,
and relaunch the boat next year. I am still toying with the idea but also
considering changing boats as the SeaRay has served me well for 9 Years but
I also want to be able to venture out further and to entertain more on the
boat.

I am DELIGHTED I was lucky enough to get a new boat - as I knew everything
worked the way it was supposed. One cannot and should not make a decision
to buy a boat based on assuming one is going to bang it up. Why would one
buy a new car then? After all, it will get dinged in the parking lot and
people do have accidents too.

The first thing I did on taking delivery of the boat at Surfside 3 marina
was to welcome on board a gentleman named Captain Glen, who they had
arranged to show me the ropes and it was the best $200 investment in getting
the boat from Lindenhurst NY to Patchogue NY. I learnt more in that 2 hour
time with him than I would have done in 20 hours or boating.

Since docking a single engine boat is no easy feat for a newbie, the BEST
$200 I EVER spent in boating was to invite him back for one more 2 hour
session to show me docking and by the grace of God, when I had been boating
for a few weeks I had a neighbor who is boating for a dozen years come ask
me to teach him how to dock. I am serious. Not that I am good, but that
people can be bad dockers because they do not make the effort to get someone
to teach them.

The third time I saw Captain Glen was when I wanted to go to Manhattan, NY.
I asked him how much would he charge for that (much longer trip) and he made
me a great offer. If he could bring his wife along for the trip he would
charge me nothing. It was a deal I have not regretted. We enjoyed a perfect
(day) trip to Manhattan, literally 2-3 weeks after I had the boat, and it
was an incredible learning experience too. It included the inland waterway,
going under drawbridges, and even a run on the open ocean along the beach.

Another great lesson was how quickly weather can change - and we were able
to get back home that evening by 7 PM or so, safe and without worry on my
part as I had an experienced teacher on board.

Over the last 9 years, have I "banged" the boat? Not really. Has it made the
acquaintance of small protruding nails in pilings at marinas? Yes, but
nothing that would keep me from getting a new boat. The Mercruiser 5.0L I/O
has worked perfectly and has 555 hours on it (only 8 hours this year due to
lousy summer).

The 230 is/was a perfect size boat for me, perfect for the Great South Bay
(and pulling up into shallow water to wade to popular and filled up marinas
in summer) and for touching the ocean regularly and even going to Manhattan
NY and NJ. I would easily also have used it in FL but would never think
about taking it out to a long ocean trip. I am glad I got it new. And, God
(and banks ;-) ) willing, some day hope to get a bigger new boat but with
twin engines, so I can explore more of this great East Coast we live on
NY-FL.

I would buy a used boat for monetary reasons - or if I wanted to get a much
bigger boat that I would use much less. E.g. A new SeaRay Sundancer 36 feet
long 320 vs. say a 46 feet long older boat about 5-10 years old....the
bigger boat would also be useful if I was married with children or a
grandparent.

Just get the best boat you can sensibly afford but make the effort to get a
good Captain to show you how to be a safe and a good boater. That $200-600
over a few weeks will be the best investment you can make, no matter what
size or what year boat you get.

Hope this helps.

Imran Anwar
http://www.imran.TV (for CNN and Fox News interviews)

PS Lastly, make sure to join an organization like Boat/US and take advantage
of the services they offer. I do not work for or have any business dealings
with any of the companies mentioned in this posting.


On 11/9/03 1:19 PM, in article ,
"Kharlosan" wrote:

Hi all, I am not a boater yet but I am planning to be one very soon.
I live in South Florida and I think the kind of boat that fit in my desires is
a new Walk Around between 22 and 23 feet.
The advice I need is about the manufacturer brand I should consider, Outboard
or I/O, 4 or 2 strokes. Please let me know the reasons of your recommendations
and share your experiences.
Any other suggestion will be greatly appreciated.
Regards.
Carlos