Ante Topic Mimara wrote:

Skip Gundlach writes:


While it's apparent that you've got a very long learning
curve ahead of you (it seems you haven't any background
in boating so don't know what to specify), the other
responders haven't made your life simple.



You are correct when you believe I have no background
in boats, for I have never even stepped on one, except
for small open ones like 10-12 foot long boats, like
rowboats and such. Why it is so difficult to get clear
answers from people is not something which I understand!
I would have believed everyone would be stepping all over
themself to show me things to research, but not a lot of
this has this happened. I have read from several, of things
which I should go and read, but everyone uses this strange
new terminology and this jargon. Is there a good online
dictionary of yacht-language? If it is so, I should go and
use it, so that I can know these same terms.


I see we all got off on the wrong foot. Let's try again.....

From what I recall in the thread, you and your (wife?) are completely
new to boating, are looking a powerboat with an aft cabin for under
$11k, are on some narrow river you want to cruise up and down, and may
sometimes go on the ocean. That's more than we knew at first, but still
not enough to give you useful information.

If you tell us more of what, where and who you are, we can help you
better. For instance, which river (we may know it) and how far up and
down it you want to go, what you want to do at first (stop at marinas,
cruise in little side creeks, just be on the water....) how often you'll
be staying onboard overnight, and anything else you feel comfortable
saying about your dream. The more we know, the better job we can do.

You see, we all probably have had friends that have been in your
position, that got a boat and immediately "ran" before they knew how to
walk. Most times, the mishaps were merely amusing afterwards; some were
potentially dangerous.

A friend of ours went out for his first sail with us and within 3 months
(no more experience), got a $6k boat of dubious condition (he overpaid)
and immediately went south towards the islands. Luckily, he had enough
minor mishaps early on that he learned to slow down and learn what he
was doing. He sure had a lot of funny "experience learned" stories when
he flew back from Florida 6 months later.... (We could do the same trip
in 3 weeks.)

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Nomen Nescio wrote:

Paul stepped up to the mike, and delivered this of himself:
]
] I think it should be emphasized that this is a list of project
] boats.

And you get this idea where? What is it with you people? You
all are acting like you're guarding the secrets of the freaking
universe, when all this Topic-Mimara guy wants is someone to
help him figure out what he wants! Geez, its a freaking boat
for crying out loud! How you all can overcomplicate it the way
you have, is beyond me. He's not asking for an advanced course
on celestial navigation. He said it himself: He wants a boat he
can put on a river, and take out to the ocean once in a while.
It isn't like he said he's intending to circumnavigate the earth.

Please do not write if you are angry. These people are trying to
see they are being helpful. If I do not understand what they are
writing, then I should learn what I want. I am thinking that I
do not need to take up a boat, if it is as difficult as it now
is. It is not nice to tell people they are not helping if they
are trying to help. I should learn more what I am trying to be
asking, before asking.

---
-
Topic-Mimara
Unique in the World!
---


-=-
This message was posted via two or more anonymous remailing services.

Nomen Nescio wrote:

Paul stepped up to the mike, and delivered this of himself:
]
] I think it should be emphasized that this is a list of project
] boats.

And you get this idea where? What is it with you people? You
all are acting like you're guarding the secrets of the freaking
universe, when all this Topic-Mimara guy wants is someone to
help him figure out what he wants! Geez, its a freaking boat
for crying out loud! How you all can overcomplicate it the way
you have, is beyond me. He's not asking for an advanced course
on celestial navigation. He said it himself: He wants a boat he
can put on a river, and take out to the ocean once in a while.
It isn't like he said he's intending to circumnavigate the earth.

Please do not write if you are angry. These people are trying to
see they are being helpful. If I do not understand what they are
writing, then I should learn what I want. I am thinking that I
do not need to take up a boat, if it is as difficult as it now
is. It is not nice to tell people they are not helping if they
are trying to help. I should learn more what I am trying to be
asking, before asking.

---
-
Topic-Mimara
Unique in the World!
---


-=-
This message was posted via two or more anonymous remailing services.

Daniel E. Best wrote:

Hey Nomen,
You get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? Or do
you just enjoy being abusive? So far today, you've been so
to two separate posters who offered reasonable opinions to
Topic-Mimara.

Gentlemen: Please do not argue on my behalf. I have read many of
posts by people who mean well, and have shown me rightly so that
I do not know a lot about boats. I do not want people to be angry
with one another. Perhaps I should have not expected people to
make suggestions about what I should look for, but rather to tell
me that I needed to learn more about what I should look for. If
this is so, then it is what I should do. I was only hoping that
those here would suggest boat names and makers so that I could
look them up on the internet to see what was available, before I
could decide what kind of boat.

I went to Yacht World website, and saw hundreds of boats made by
many makers. This is the resource I have now to use as a point of
starting to find out what is available. There are many boats not
far from me that are what I am looking at, and I shall go to see
what they look like up close, and ask many questions of the people
around them, to find out what it is that they will tell me about
boats.

But please do not argue on my behalf. Everyone is meaning well
here I know. I see many people telling me to learn more, as well
as I see people telling me it is too dangerous and costly.

Thank you for your help.

---
-
Topic-Mimara
Unique in the World!
---


-=-
This message was posted via two or more anonymous remailing services.

Daniel E. Best wrote:

Hey Nomen,
You get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? Or do
you just enjoy being abusive? So far today, you've been so
to two separate posters who offered reasonable opinions to
Topic-Mimara.

Gentlemen: Please do not argue on my behalf. I have read many of
posts by people who mean well, and have shown me rightly so that
I do not know a lot about boats. I do not want people to be angry
with one another. Perhaps I should have not expected people to
make suggestions about what I should look for, but rather to tell
me that I needed to learn more about what I should look for. If
this is so, then it is what I should do. I was only hoping that
those here would suggest boat names and makers so that I could
look them up on the internet to see what was available, before I
could decide what kind of boat.

I went to Yacht World website, and saw hundreds of boats made by
many makers. This is the resource I have now to use as a point of
starting to find out what is available. There are many boats not
far from me that are what I am looking at, and I shall go to see
what they look like up close, and ask many questions of the people
around them, to find out what it is that they will tell me about
boats.

But please do not argue on my behalf. Everyone is meaning well
here I know. I see many people telling me to learn more, as well
as I see people telling me it is too dangerous and costly.

Thank you for your help.

---
-
Topic-Mimara
Unique in the World!
---


-=-
This message was posted via two or more anonymous remailing services.

Jere Lull wrote:

Ante Topic Mimara wrote:

Skip Gundlach writes:

While it's apparent that you've got a very long learning
curve ahead of you (it seems you haven't any background
in boating so don't know what to specify), the other
responders haven't made your life simple.


You are correct when you believe I have no background
in boats, for I have never even stepped on one, except
for small open ones like 10-12 foot long boats, like
rowboats and such. Why it is so difficult to get clear
answers from people is not something which I understand!
I would have believed everyone would be stepping all over
themself to show me things to research, but not a lot of
this has this happened. I have read from several, of things
which I should go and read, but everyone uses this strange
new terminology and this jargon. Is there a good online
dictionary of yacht-language? If it is so, I should go and
use it, so that I can know these same terms.

I see we all got off on the wrong foot. Let's try again.....

Now there is something wrong with my foot? I see you are making
a joke with me! LOL!

From what I recall in the thread, you and your (wife?) are
completely new to boating, are looking a powerboat with an
aft cabin for under $11k, are on some narrow river you want
to cruise up and down, and may sometimes go on the ocean.

This is something like what I was looking for. Aft Cabin is not
critical to my wants, but could be something I would like, as I
have seen one on the internet that I liked.

That's more than we knew at first, but still not enough to
give you useful information.

What more information could you need? I am looking for a boat
in feet between 25 and 40, that can go in a river (meaning it
must not sit too deep in water) yet can follow a river all the
hundred of miles or so to the ocean. I do not believe I need
two engines, as that means one could go bad, and would be twice
trouble. Diesel, or gas, or alcohol fuel is unimportant, do you
agree?

If you tell us more of what, where and who you are, we can
help you better. For instance, which river (we may know it)
and how far up and down it you want to go, what you want to
do at first (stop at marinas, cruise in little side creeks,
just be on the water....) how often you'll be staying onboard
overnight, and anything else you feel comfortable saying about
your dream. The more we know, the better job we can do.

The river is not important. You may pick any river from Miami
to Maine, and all are the same, as far as I am thinking. I
am afraid of the hackers to know who I am, so I do not think
I will like telling people who I am. Who am I is important in
what way to me knowing what types of boat should I look at?

I know I cannot go past a certain point up the river, not that I
want to go up the river (a funny joke!) and I know that at the
other end is a very large ocean city with lots of boats.

I am thinking that on nice weekends, I may want to take a boat
down the river a hundred or more miles to where the ocean is,
so that we can eat a dinner in the town by the ocean. Also, we
will stay on this boat on other weekends, but not on every
weekend there is. In the springtimes, we may want to go out on
to the coast, and go to other cities on the ocean for two or
more weeks. By looking at maps, I see many big cities very near
by to the end of the river I live near, and all from Jacksonville
Florida to Philadelphia Pennsylvania are within the reach of
what I am thinking as a major springtime trip of two or three
weeks time. Are there not places along the coastline where I
could stop the boat for food and fuel and other things such
as these?

I am also thinking that this trip kind is in years, two or more
away from me. I know that I will have up to one years that I
will have to clean and tidy up boat, and fix any things that
need to be done, and another years and a few month plus that
I will have to get used to being on the boat up and down the
river, and maybe going to the ocean and back in a weekend.

As for staying on the boat for over nights, I have a house and
this is where we sleep when normal, but with a boat, we will
stay on the boat on some nice weekends, when it is not cold
or too hot. In the number of weekends in one year, we would
probably want to stay on the boat perhaps one or two weekends
for every month of a whole year. If it is hot, do boats have
the conditioner of air? This is another thing I do not know,
but I have seen where some boats have hook up to power on shore,
so would that be how the conditioner of air would have power?

Is this the right things I need to think about how I will learn
to use the boat, and what I should do with it?

You see, we all probably have had friends that have been in
your position, that got a boat and immediately "ran" before
they knew how to walk. Most times, the mishaps were merely
amusing afterwards; some were potentially dangerous.

Perhaps I should not go to boating as a hobby then. It seems
like everyone is telling me I will die in a shipwreck.

A friend of ours went out for his first sail with us and
within 3 months (no more experience), got a $6k boat of dubious
condition (he overpaid) and immediately went south towards the
islands. Luckily, he had enough minor mishaps early on that he
learned to slow down and learn what he was doing. He sure had
a lot of funny "experience learned" stories when he flew back
from Florida 6 months later.... (We could do the same trip
in 3 weeks.)

I thank you for writing your message to me. Maybe I should now
think about not buying a boat if it is unsafe and dangerous.

---
-
Topic-Mimara
Unique in the World!
---


-=-
This message was posted via two or more anonymous remailing services.

Jere Lull wrote:

Ante Topic Mimara wrote:

Skip Gundlach writes:

While it's apparent that you've got a very long learning
curve ahead of you (it seems you haven't any background
in boating so don't know what to specify), the other
responders haven't made your life simple.


You are correct when you believe I have no background
in boats, for I have never even stepped on one, except
for small open ones like 10-12 foot long boats, like
rowboats and such. Why it is so difficult to get clear
answers from people is not something which I understand!
I would have believed everyone would be stepping all over
themself to show me things to research, but not a lot of
this has this happened. I have read from several, of things
which I should go and read, but everyone uses this strange
new terminology and this jargon. Is there a good online
dictionary of yacht-language? If it is so, I should go and
use it, so that I can know these same terms.

I see we all got off on the wrong foot. Let's try again.....

Now there is something wrong with my foot? I see you are making
a joke with me! LOL!

From what I recall in the thread, you and your (wife?) are
completely new to boating, are looking a powerboat with an
aft cabin for under $11k, are on some narrow river you want
to cruise up and down, and may sometimes go on the ocean.

This is something like what I was looking for. Aft Cabin is not
critical to my wants, but could be something I would like, as I
have seen one on the internet that I liked.

That's more than we knew at first, but still not enough to
give you useful information.

What more information could you need? I am looking for a boat
in feet between 25 and 40, that can go in a river (meaning it
must not sit too deep in water) yet can follow a river all the
hundred of miles or so to the ocean. I do not believe I need
two engines, as that means one could go bad, and would be twice
trouble. Diesel, or gas, or alcohol fuel is unimportant, do you
agree?

If you tell us more of what, where and who you are, we can
help you better. For instance, which river (we may know it)
and how far up and down it you want to go, what you want to
do at first (stop at marinas, cruise in little side creeks,
just be on the water....) how often you'll be staying onboard
overnight, and anything else you feel comfortable saying about
your dream. The more we know, the better job we can do.

The river is not important. You may pick any river from Miami
to Maine, and all are the same, as far as I am thinking. I
am afraid of the hackers to know who I am, so I do not think
I will like telling people who I am. Who am I is important in
what way to me knowing what types of boat should I look at?

I know I cannot go past a certain point up the river, not that I
want to go up the river (a funny joke!) and I know that at the
other end is a very large ocean city with lots of boats.

I am thinking that on nice weekends, I may want to take a boat
down the river a hundred or more miles to where the ocean is,
so that we can eat a dinner in the town by the ocean. Also, we
will stay on this boat on other weekends, but not on every
weekend there is. In the springtimes, we may want to go out on
to the coast, and go to other cities on the ocean for two or
more weeks. By looking at maps, I see many big cities very near
by to the end of the river I live near, and all from Jacksonville
Florida to Philadelphia Pennsylvania are within the reach of
what I am thinking as a major springtime trip of two or three
weeks time. Are there not places along the coastline where I
could stop the boat for food and fuel and other things such
as these?

I am also thinking that this trip kind is in years, two or more
away from me. I know that I will have up to one years that I
will have to clean and tidy up boat, and fix any things that
need to be done, and another years and a few month plus that
I will have to get used to being on the boat up and down the
river, and maybe going to the ocean and back in a weekend.

As for staying on the boat for over nights, I have a house and
this is where we sleep when normal, but with a boat, we will
stay on the boat on some nice weekends, when it is not cold
or too hot. In the number of weekends in one year, we would
probably want to stay on the boat perhaps one or two weekends
for every month of a whole year. If it is hot, do boats have
the conditioner of air? This is another thing I do not know,
but I have seen where some boats have hook up to power on shore,
so would that be how the conditioner of air would have power?

Is this the right things I need to think about how I will learn
to use the boat, and what I should do with it?

You see, we all probably have had friends that have been in
your position, that got a boat and immediately "ran" before
they knew how to walk. Most times, the mishaps were merely
amusing afterwards; some were potentially dangerous.

Perhaps I should not go to boating as a hobby then. It seems
like everyone is telling me I will die in a shipwreck.

A friend of ours went out for his first sail with us and
within 3 months (no more experience), got a $6k boat of dubious
condition (he overpaid) and immediately went south towards the
islands. Luckily, he had enough minor mishaps early on that he
learned to slow down and learn what he was doing. He sure had
a lot of funny "experience learned" stories when he flew back
from Florida 6 months later.... (We could do the same trip
in 3 weeks.)

I thank you for writing your message to me. Maybe I should now
think about not buying a boat if it is unsafe and dangerous.

---
-
Topic-Mimara
Unique in the World!
---


-=-
This message was posted via two or more anonymous remailing services.

Rufus wrote:

1) What time yesterday do you need to buy your boat? ..g

I do not need a boat yesterday! LOL! I am looking to find out
what boat is available, to decide if I can use one. Do you
know of different types of boats that might be of use?

IOW, don't rush into things, or you'll burn out quick or get
into trouble. There's lots to know about boats, and what of
that actually matters really depends on the individual. Mostly
you need to learn about yourself in relationship to this boat
thing you're thinking of getting into.

Taking time is good advisement for me. Maybe I did not look into
what having a boat is about enough. That is what I had tried to
do when I came to ask about what kinds of boats there are. Can you
tell me more of having boats so I can look this up?

2) It's almost always really dumb, in every way, to buy big
expensive toys without having lots of personal experience. Once
you have experience, you start to know what questions to ask and
to form some of your own opinions. Without that, nothing anybody
says much matters one way or another.

How can one get "personal experience" without having experience
to the first place? I think you are trying to be telling me that
I am not smart enough to get experience without a boat, yet I do
not have a boat to get experience with. Maybe I do not need to
get into a boat, but instead go back to flying an airplane for
a hobby.

3) A boat isn't a set of skies - at least not for most people's
budget or liability insurance coverage. You don't go buy one and
try it out and have a bang bang weekend to talk about at the
office.

What is a "bang bang weekend" ? I do not know of this.

And how again am I to know about boats unless I ask? This is
going in many circles.

Unless you're in the bucks and can afford to write off some
really _big_ mistakaes.

How can I spend big money if I am wanting to find a boat that
does not cost many dollars? This I do not understand either.

So go get some experience. It's easy. It can be free. It's fun.

So far, it seems to have more danger in it than I thought it did.

You want sail boat?

No, I do not want a sailboat. I want a boat with a motor. How
does this advisement help me?

Go be rail meat for some racing skippers at the local yacht
clubs. Learn some ropes. Get screamed at. Bloody you hands.
Stuff a spiniaker.

What is this "rail meat"?

Why do I need to find "racing skipper" when I want to go slow
and have lazy cruises on the river?

What do ropes have to do with motorboats?

I do not want to be screamed at.

I would not like to have bloody hands.

What is a "spiniaker" and how do I stuff it?

How does all of these things I do not know help me decide what
kind of boat I should look at?

If I understand your meaning, you are telling me I do not need
a boat.

Puke over the side. Sop up brew at the commiseration bar
after the race. Take the CG Auxiliary courses.

I do not want to "puke" over the side. I do not even know what
that is, but it does not sound nice.

What is "brew" and what do I "sop" it with?

These are nautical terms so what do they mean?

Boats are great - go for it. But give yourself a chance.

Is that not what I thought I was doing?

Let somebody else pay the $2000 for a ripped sail.

I do not want sails.

Let somebody else insurance cover the gash he makes in the
paint of the neighboring rich guy at the dock.

You are making a joke with me! LOL

Make a fool of yourself in front of your sneering comrades
- who might at least get a good laugh out of it - instead
of in front of your scared ****less "significant other".
Let the _owner_ get freaked out when his GPS batteries run
out and the fog comes down - see how a real pro does
it so you find how _you_ would like to do it. g

Why do I need to make a fool of myself? Is this a part of
boating?

You may decide you'd like ocean motorboat racing better
- much faster, louder, and macho. Or maybe kayaking will
start to look better...

I do not live besides the ocean, and racing a motor boat is
not like what I was thinking about. What is a "kayaking" and
how is it better?

You have made me think of many more questions that I did not
know about, and I appreciate it! I will look these things up
and learn more, so I can ask better questions next time!

Many thanks!

---
-
Topic-Mimara
Unique in the World!
---


-=-
This message was posted via two or more anonymous remailing services.

Rufus wrote:

1) What time yesterday do you need to buy your boat? ..g

I do not need a boat yesterday! LOL! I am looking to find out
what boat is available, to decide if I can use one. Do you
know of different types of boats that might be of use?

IOW, don't rush into things, or you'll burn out quick or get
into trouble. There's lots to know about boats, and what of
that actually matters really depends on the individual. Mostly
you need to learn about yourself in relationship to this boat
thing you're thinking of getting into.

Taking time is good advisement for me. Maybe I did not look into
what having a boat is about enough. That is what I had tried to
do when I came to ask about what kinds of boats there are. Can you
tell me more of having boats so I can look this up?

2) It's almost always really dumb, in every way, to buy big
expensive toys without having lots of personal experience. Once
you have experience, you start to know what questions to ask and
to form some of your own opinions. Without that, nothing anybody
says much matters one way or another.

How can one get "personal experience" without having experience
to the first place? I think you are trying to be telling me that
I am not smart enough to get experience without a boat, yet I do
not have a boat to get experience with. Maybe I do not need to
get into a boat, but instead go back to flying an airplane for
a hobby.

3) A boat isn't a set of skies - at least not for most people's
budget or liability insurance coverage. You don't go buy one and
try it out and have a bang bang weekend to talk about at the
office.

What is a "bang bang weekend" ? I do not know of this.

And how again am I to know about boats unless I ask? This is
going in many circles.

Unless you're in the bucks and can afford to write off some
really _big_ mistakaes.

How can I spend big money if I am wanting to find a boat that
does not cost many dollars? This I do not understand either.

So go get some experience. It's easy. It can be free. It's fun.

So far, it seems to have more danger in it than I thought it did.

You want sail boat?

No, I do not want a sailboat. I want a boat with a motor. How
does this advisement help me?

Go be rail meat for some racing skippers at the local yacht
clubs. Learn some ropes. Get screamed at. Bloody you hands.
Stuff a spiniaker.

What is this "rail meat"?

Why do I need to find "racing skipper" when I want to go slow
and have lazy cruises on the river?

What do ropes have to do with motorboats?

I do not want to be screamed at.

I would not like to have bloody hands.

What is a "spiniaker" and how do I stuff it?

How does all of these things I do not know help me decide what
kind of boat I should look at?

If I understand your meaning, you are telling me I do not need
a boat.

Puke over the side. Sop up brew at the commiseration bar
after the race. Take the CG Auxiliary courses.

I do not want to "puke" over the side. I do not even know what
that is, but it does not sound nice.

What is "brew" and what do I "sop" it with?

These are nautical terms so what do they mean?

Boats are great - go for it. But give yourself a chance.

Is that not what I thought I was doing?

Let somebody else pay the $2000 for a ripped sail.

I do not want sails.

Let somebody else insurance cover the gash he makes in the
paint of the neighboring rich guy at the dock.

You are making a joke with me! LOL

Make a fool of yourself in front of your sneering comrades
- who might at least get a good laugh out of it - instead
of in front of your scared ****less "significant other".
Let the _owner_ get freaked out when his GPS batteries run
out and the fog comes down - see how a real pro does
it so you find how _you_ would like to do it. g

Why do I need to make a fool of myself? Is this a part of
boating?

You may decide you'd like ocean motorboat racing better
- much faster, louder, and macho. Or maybe kayaking will
start to look better...

I do not live besides the ocean, and racing a motor boat is
not like what I was thinking about. What is a "kayaking" and
how is it better?

You have made me think of many more questions that I did not
know about, and I appreciate it! I will look these things up
and learn more, so I can ask better questions next time!

Many thanks!

---
-
Topic-Mimara
Unique in the World!
---


-=-
This message was posted via two or more anonymous remailing services.

Have you considered looking into a charter club?

A good charter club with a lot of different boats will allow you
to learn boating skills from more experienced members and
instructors, and will allow you to try out different types of
boats and see what *really* fits your needs. (Or just as
importantly, find out what doesn't meet your needs!)

My husband and I looked at (and almost bought) a couple of boats,
but financial issues forced us to wait. While waiting we joined a
charter club so we could be on the water. It wasn't the same as
owning our own boat, but we learned a *lot* about boating from
people we would never have met otherwise. We also learned that
the boats we had been interested in would not have met our needs.
We finally did buy a boat. It's a bit more of a "project" than we
had hoped, but if we can survive the refit we know she will be
perfect for us.

We are sailors and it sounds like you are interested in power
boats, but there are clubs out there that should have what you
are looking for.

Best of luck

Cindy