On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 18:06:22 -0500, DSK wrote:

.... A polishing system recirculates and each pass
through the filter removes more because a filter is much more than just a
fancy sieve. I dunno.

Sounds good in theory, and as Steve says his TP filters get a lot of gunk out of
there. But I still have no confidence at all that they are not shedding gunk
too.
/snip/
Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Actually, 'depth' filters sound TERRIBLE in theory.
Use a what?
A toilet roll? A kitchen roll? Gimme a break.

It is in practice that they do best.
Over the road operators brag repeatedly about astronomical mileages -
some of them practice only filter change and filter bowl oil make up
only... no complete oil changes.

Winnowing through the stuff from true believers, it looks like depth
filters can carry a much larger particle load and can filter to
smaller particulate sizes. They will certainly trap water, though I am
unsure how far that reduces the filtration efficiency and/or increases
particle transmission.

Depth filters have plenty of background: I ran an aircraft rated depth
filter made of deep cloth layers for five years in a light airplane.
The brand was "Winslow" You bet the price did not compare with a
kitchen roll however.

Brian Whatcott Altus OK

Concerns were expressed on this thread about pulling too much flow thru a
polishing filter. I polish with a Racor 500 in a stand-alone system. Some
time ago I called Racor and found out it's cartridge is rated for 20-25psi.
I equipped my polishing system with a vacuum gauge, same as on my engine.
Vacuum can then be monitored and regulated in a couple ways. One way is
variable speed pump. The other uses a bypass valve, so that not all fuel
being pumped goes thru pump. I'll usually keep the filter vacuum around 10
psi to be conservative. When it rises 5psi that's sign the filter is getting
clogged.

As for stirring up the crud, one guy told me he shoots a jet of air around
the bottom of his tanks. Has a small L-shaped copper tube on an air hose,
and with it tied to a dowel/rod pushes it to bottom and "aims" it around.
He'll them sometimes just let the thing bubble away while polishing to help
keep particulate matter in suspension.

Before "bubbling" the tank or doing anything else, first pump a quart or two
off the bottom into glass jar and check for water. And continue this,
discarding the water, until no more is seen.

FWIW.
Len

--
Eliminate "ns" for email address.

Concerns were expressed on this thread about pulling too much flow thru a
polishing filter. I polish with a Racor 500 in a stand-alone system. Some
time ago I called Racor and found out it's cartridge is rated for 20-25psi.
I equipped my polishing system with a vacuum gauge, same as on my engine.
Vacuum can then be monitored and regulated in a couple ways. One way is
variable speed pump. The other uses a bypass valve, so that not all fuel
being pumped goes thru pump. I'll usually keep the filter vacuum around 10
psi to be conservative. When it rises 5psi that's sign the filter is getting
clogged.

As for stirring up the crud, one guy told me he shoots a jet of air around
the bottom of his tanks. Has a small L-shaped copper tube on an air hose,
and with it tied to a dowel/rod pushes it to bottom and "aims" it around.
He'll them sometimes just let the thing bubble away while polishing to help
keep particulate matter in suspension.

Before "bubbling" the tank or doing anything else, first pump a quart or two
off the bottom into glass jar and check for water. And continue this,
discarding the water, until no more is seen.

FWIW.
Len

--
Eliminate "ns" for email address.

About 4 years ago there was a couple guys on the group who managed truck
and heavy equipment fleets. They swore by the paper filters (paper towel
or TP) and used them on their own personal trucks. You could probably
find the threads on google.

Rufus

About 4 years ago there was a couple guys on the group who managed truck
and heavy equipment fleets. They swore by the paper filters (paper towel
or TP) and used them on their own personal trucks. You could probably
find the threads on google.

Rufus

Steve,

Thanks for the pics of your system. Any suggestions on TP vs PT
filter?

Doug

"Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 18:01:15 -0500, DSK wrote:

Steven Shelikoff wrote:

..The main advantage of the paper depth filters is that they can filter
down to very small particle size and they can hold a whole lot of crud,
large and small, without clogging up. IOW, perfect for fuel polishing.

IMHO the only benefit is that they soak up a lot of water. They probably
do
trap a lot of particles but also shed them.

That hasn't been my experience with them. My experience is that they do
not shed significantly (they haven't clogged the 2 micron Racor behind
them yet) and that they do trap a lot of particles. I guess they also
make good water separaters but I wouldn't know that since I've never had
a problem with water in my fuel even before I put on the GCF filters.

.... The Racor 2 micron filter that's past the
TP filters is now 2 years old and is still clean.

That's like bragging about how many times you can use the same condom.
You

lol, not quite. Otherwise, we'd be changing Racor elements every time
we start the engine. Unlike condoms, the Racor elements are safe to
keep using until they get dirty.

could have spent the same amount of money on filter elements instead of
the
TP filter system, and have cleaner fuel.

That also hasn't been anywhere near my experience.

A lot of boats have their primary fuel filter in a difficult location.
That's not an excuse to try and stretch the filter, it's a reason to
either
1- buy a different boat or 2- remake the system so that you can change
the
filter element easily & quickly.

My Racor is very easy to change. The engine mounted filter a little
less easy, but it's still only a 10 minute job. Changing either of them
required bleeding the fuel system though. With what I have now, I can
change either the GCF filter or the Racor and not get any air into the
engine. I can shut off fuel to the engine and bleed the part of the
system with those filters with the walbro pump. I can even change the
GCF filters and bypass them to keep the engine running if it's
necessary. I do have to shut off fuel to the engine to bleed them
properly, although filling them with fuel before putting the lid on
really helps there so if it was really an emergency, I could probably
keep the engine running.

BTW if you buy filter elements by the carton, you can carry a lot of them
and not pay much.

The main problem is that I had to change 2 of the Racor elements when
the engine died after operating only 20 minutes each. And with the
amount of crud in the tank, that trend was likely to continue for a long
time. That's totally unacceptable no matter how cheap you get the
elements (they're still expensive even by the case) or how many you
carry. The GCF 01-Jr filters before the Racor totally solved the
problem and cost me about the same as having the tank cleaned and the
fuel in it polished. Now, I have that accomplished and still have the
system installed for future use.

I know a lot of people here will tell you a lot of bad things about the
GCF PT or TP filters. But probably none of those people actually used
them to solve a specific problem. I have first hand experience and for
me, they're working great.

Steve

Steve,

Thanks for the pics of your system. Any suggestions on TP vs PT
filter?

Doug

"Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 18:01:15 -0500, DSK wrote:

Steven Shelikoff wrote:

..The main advantage of the paper depth filters is that they can filter
down to very small particle size and they can hold a whole lot of crud,
large and small, without clogging up. IOW, perfect for fuel polishing.

IMHO the only benefit is that they soak up a lot of water. They probably
do
trap a lot of particles but also shed them.

That hasn't been my experience with them. My experience is that they do
not shed significantly (they haven't clogged the 2 micron Racor behind
them yet) and that they do trap a lot of particles. I guess they also
make good water separaters but I wouldn't know that since I've never had
a problem with water in my fuel even before I put on the GCF filters.

.... The Racor 2 micron filter that's past the
TP filters is now 2 years old and is still clean.

That's like bragging about how many times you can use the same condom.
You

lol, not quite. Otherwise, we'd be changing Racor elements every time
we start the engine. Unlike condoms, the Racor elements are safe to
keep using until they get dirty.

could have spent the same amount of money on filter elements instead of
the
TP filter system, and have cleaner fuel.

That also hasn't been anywhere near my experience.

A lot of boats have their primary fuel filter in a difficult location.
That's not an excuse to try and stretch the filter, it's a reason to
either
1- buy a different boat or 2- remake the system so that you can change
the
filter element easily & quickly.

My Racor is very easy to change. The engine mounted filter a little
less easy, but it's still only a 10 minute job. Changing either of them
required bleeding the fuel system though. With what I have now, I can
change either the GCF filter or the Racor and not get any air into the
engine. I can shut off fuel to the engine and bleed the part of the
system with those filters with the walbro pump. I can even change the
GCF filters and bypass them to keep the engine running if it's
necessary. I do have to shut off fuel to the engine to bleed them
properly, although filling them with fuel before putting the lid on
really helps there so if it was really an emergency, I could probably
keep the engine running.

BTW if you buy filter elements by the carton, you can carry a lot of them
and not pay much.

The main problem is that I had to change 2 of the Racor elements when
the engine died after operating only 20 minutes each. And with the
amount of crud in the tank, that trend was likely to continue for a long
time. That's totally unacceptable no matter how cheap you get the
elements (they're still expensive even by the case) or how many you
carry. The GCF 01-Jr filters before the Racor totally solved the
problem and cost me about the same as having the tank cleaned and the
fuel in it polished. Now, I have that accomplished and still have the
system installed for future use.

I know a lot of people here will tell you a lot of bad things about the
GCF PT or TP filters. But probably none of those people actually used
them to solve a specific problem. I have first hand experience and for
me, they're working great.

Steve

I had thought of a bubbling mechanism to stir the tank while polishing.
Also thought if the return from the polishing system was placed at the
opposite end of the tank from the uptake it might keep things mixed
up a bit. I have a draincock at the lowest of each of my tanks so draining
out water and a bit of sediment is pretty easy.

Doug

"Len Krauss" wrote in message
...
Concerns were expressed on this thread about pulling too much flow thru a
polishing filter. I polish with a Racor 500 in a stand-alone system. Some
time ago I called Racor and found out it's cartridge is rated for
20-25psi.
I equipped my polishing system with a vacuum gauge, same as on my engine.
Vacuum can then be monitored and regulated in a couple ways. One way is
variable speed pump. The other uses a bypass valve, so that not all fuel
being pumped goes thru pump. I'll usually keep the filter vacuum around 10
psi to be conservative. When it rises 5psi that's sign the filter is
getting
clogged.

As for stirring up the crud, one guy told me he shoots a jet of air around
the bottom of his tanks. Has a small L-shaped copper tube on an air hose,
and with it tied to a dowel/rod pushes it to bottom and "aims" it around.
He'll them sometimes just let the thing bubble away while polishing to
help
keep particulate matter in suspension.

Before "bubbling" the tank or doing anything else, first pump a quart or
two
off the bottom into glass jar and check for water. And continue this,
discarding the water, until no more is seen.

FWIW.
Len

--
Eliminate "ns" for email address.

I had thought of a bubbling mechanism to stir the tank while polishing.
Also thought if the return from the polishing system was placed at the
opposite end of the tank from the uptake it might keep things mixed
up a bit. I have a draincock at the lowest of each of my tanks so draining
out water and a bit of sediment is pretty easy.

Doug

"Len Krauss" wrote in message
...
Concerns were expressed on this thread about pulling too much flow thru a
polishing filter. I polish with a Racor 500 in a stand-alone system. Some
time ago I called Racor and found out it's cartridge is rated for
20-25psi.
I equipped my polishing system with a vacuum gauge, same as on my engine.
Vacuum can then be monitored and regulated in a couple ways. One way is
variable speed pump. The other uses a bypass valve, so that not all fuel
being pumped goes thru pump. I'll usually keep the filter vacuum around 10
psi to be conservative. When it rises 5psi that's sign the filter is
getting
clogged.

As for stirring up the crud, one guy told me he shoots a jet of air around
the bottom of his tanks. Has a small L-shaped copper tube on an air hose,
and with it tied to a dowel/rod pushes it to bottom and "aims" it around.
He'll them sometimes just let the thing bubble away while polishing to
help
keep particulate matter in suspension.

Before "bubbling" the tank or doing anything else, first pump a quart or
two
off the bottom into glass jar and check for water. And continue this,
discarding the water, until no more is seen.

FWIW.
Len

--
Eliminate "ns" for email address.

I believe that was for OIL not diesel.

Rufus wrote:
About 4 years ago there was a couple guys on the group who managed truck
and heavy equipment fleets. They swore by the paper filters (paper towel
or TP) and used them on their own personal trucks. You could probably
find the threads on google.

Rufus


--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com