On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 14:02:02 +1000, Herodotus
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:04:01 +0700, wrote:



However, as a good Moslem you are allowed four wives. Of course, If I
remember correctly, you must treat each wife equally so if you built
another boat......


Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

Bruce, Bruce, don't even suggest it. Another Englishman, Oscar Wilde
said that "The definition of bigamy is one wife too many; monogamy is
the same thing."

Sorry that you have missed out on reading any D H Lawrence. Surely you
must have heard of "Lady Chatterly's Lover', "Sons and Lovers" and
"Women in Love"? I know that I meet few Americans who have read any of
Hemmingway or Mark Twain apart from "Tom Sawyer", but I imagined that
you were of an earlier generation. A great American, Carnegie, gave a
lot of money to build libraries in places such as little N.Z. I used
to believe as a kid that therefore (kid logic) Americans were a very
well read people. This was reinforced when I was about 10 and somebody
bought me the 52 volume set of Encyclopedia Britannica - 'Great Books
of the Western World" - produced, not in the UK, but by the University
of Chicago. everything from Homer to Freud including Plato, Euripides,
Descartes, Shakespeare, Euclid and so on including my own Uncle
Herodotus after whom I named my boat. At 10 I believed that Americans
must be reading these. Pretty dumb huh!

cheers
Peter

Ah Peter, the last work iin morning after remarks, "I'd like to marry
you but I'd have to build a boat first...."

Probably in self defense, my mother introduced me to the public
library as soon as I could read. My Goodness, there was a lot of
information in that building and right on the way home from school --
if I took a bit of a detour. At one time I was the youngest person in
my home town to possess a "library card".

I guess I have read D.H. Lawrence, at least the more lurid parts of
Lady Chatterly. Really hard core stuff in my youth.

Hemingway, is good and bad. Most of the bull fighting books were great
on detail but dwelled, and dwelled, and dwelled, and dwelled on the
tension and fear building up before the matador enters the ring. I
found them tedious. On the other hand the old man and the sea, was, I
believe, one of the best books about small time commercial fishing
that has been written.

Mark Twain (which, by the way, is 12 feet) is a writer that I enjoy as
I do Kipling. Neither of them would be published in the present day of
"political correctness" which seems a puzzle as it is neither
political nor correct, but that is another story. I keep a copy of Kim
and re-read it at least once a year.

Most of my reading lately is trash. I work on the boat; I eat supper;
it's too early to go to bed; I read a book, the last thing I want to
do is read a good book because I've got to get up tomorrow and do it
all again, so I read trash. Science Fiction; Fantasy; Detective
stories, etc.

Well, given that you have a boy in high school it might have been
correct, when you were ten, that Americans read, but it certainly
isn't true now. I have no contact with the U.S. except for the
internet so can't say from experience but when I read some idiot's
remarks about something he saw on TV that is physically impossible it
really makes me wonder.

But then have political leaders who are old enough to remember the
last time we got ourselves into a situation where we didn' know how to
get out of it and did it again. Truly, Those who cannot learn from
history are doomed to repeat it.

Enough for this evening.


Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

Herodotus wrote:

o you know the background to the Carnegie libraries?
o they still exist in the US? In New Zealand, unless I am mistaken,
:they have all been taken over by the local councils (county and town
:local government as opposed to central government).

:The building are still there and are almost all identical in
:construction - red brick with concrete or plastered lintels and
ediments.


The buildings are still around, though lots of them are no longer
libraries. They're pretty small buildings, and aren't well suited for
modern library use, which has more than books. (Some people might say
less than books.) The grants that were intended to fund them have
mostly been used up as operating money. The libraries are run by
local library authorities, usually town or county sized.

On 2007-08-16 07:56:08 -0400, said:

Probably in self defense, my mother introduced me to the public
library as soon as I could read. My Goodness, there was a lot of
information in that building and right on the way home from school --
if I took a bit of a detour. At one time I was the youngest person in
my home town to possess a "library card".

My father introduced me to the public library -- after I read
everything in the children's library and was too young to get a library
car in the adult library, he gave me his library card to use. Then he
walked me to the library, introduced me to the head librarian and told
her "Let Ruby read anything she wants to read. If she has questions,
or if you're really concerned about whether it's appropriate for her,
call me." It was a small town. I think the only call my father ever
received wasn't from the librarian, but from my high school English
teacher who had a problem with me doing a book report on "The
Godfather." He threatened me with detention (and I had a job to get
to!) and demanded to know what my parents would think of me reading
such trash. (It was in the early 70s.) My father had given me the
book! The English teacher called my father, and it was the last time
he ever questioned my reading choices!


I guess I have read D.H. Lawrence, at least the more lurid parts of
Lady Chatterly. Really hard core stuff in my youth


Hemingway, is good and bad. Most of the bull fighting books were great
on detail but dwelled, and dwelled, and dwelled, and dwelled on the
tension and fear building up before the matador enters the ring. I
found them tedious. On the other hand the old man and the sea, was, I
believe, one of the best books about small time commercial fishing
that has been written.

I feel the same way about much of Hemingway's work. But the old man
and the sea was good. And Lady Chatterly was quite interesting -- at
least the lurid bits. I was too young when I read it to really
understand the story, though. I ought to give it another try.


Mark Twain (which, by the way, is 12 feet) is a writer that I enjoy as
I do Kipling. Neither of them would be published in the present day of
"political correctness" which seems a puzzle as it is neither
political nor correct, but that is another story. I keep a copy of Kim
and re-read it at least once a year.

I enjoyed Mark Twain. And Kipling, but I loved Jack London. And Steinbeck.


Most of my reading lately is trash. I work on the boat; I eat supper;
it's too early to go to bed; I read a book, the last thing I want to
do is read a good book because I've got to get up tomorrow and do it
all again, so I read trash. Science Fiction; Fantasy; Detective
stories, etc.

It's hard not to enjoy trash like sci fi, fantasy and detective
stories. That makes up the majority of my reading these days, and for
the same reasons. (Not working on a boat, per se, but working.) I
read to relax, and I don't want to have to work at it.

Well, given that you have a boy in high school it might have been
correct, when you were ten, that Americans read, but it certainly
isn't true now. I have no contact with the U.S. except for the
internet so can't say from experience but when I read some idiot's
remarks about something he saw on TV that is physically impossible it
really makes me wonder.

Americans do read -- although I think that it's the women reading while
the men control the TV remote and watch one idiotic thing after the
next.


But then have political leaders who are old enough to remember the
last time we got ourselves into a situation where we didn' know how to
get out of it and did it again. Truly, Those who cannot learn from
history are doomed to repeat it.

Ruby Vee, in the US working to build up a cruising kitty.

On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 18:56:08 +0700, wrote:


Ah Peter, the last work iin morning after remarks, "I'd like to marry
you but I'd have to build a boat first...."

Probably in self defense, my mother introduced me to the public
library as soon as I could read. My Goodness, there was a lot of
information in that building and right on the way home from school --
if I took a bit of a detour. At one time I was the youngest person in
my home town to possess a "library card".

I guess I have read D.H. Lawrence, at least the more lurid parts of
Lady Chatterly. Really hard core stuff in my youth.

Hemingway, is good and bad. Most of the bull fighting books were great
on detail but dwelled, and dwelled, and dwelled, and dwelled on the
tension and fear building up before the matador enters the ring. I
found them tedious. On the other hand the old man and the sea, was, I
believe, one of the best books about small time commercial fishing
that has been written.

Mark Twain (which, by the way, is 12 feet) is a writer that I enjoy as
I do Kipling. Neither of them would be published in the present day of
"political correctness" which seems a puzzle as it is neither
political nor correct, but that is another story. I keep a copy of Kim
and re-read it at least once a year.

It seems that we have similar reading habits. "The Old Man and the
Sea" is one of my favourites. I probably read it once a year. I would
very much like to have the fortitude and calmness under difficult
situations of Santiago. Kipling's "Kim" is also and fired my
imagination as a child. I bought the audiobook of it from Naxos and
listen to it during night watch. I have also reduced it to MP3. If you
want a copy I could send a copy to you by snailmail if you should so
wish. Listening to it is not the same as reading but it is still
excellent. I am amassing quite a lot of audiobooks, some of which I
buy and other which I download from Project Gutenberg. They are a
great way to pass the time at night if you want to stay awake. My
cockpit stereo can play MP3s but I normally load everything on my
little 6 Gig. iRiver which has a 32 hour battery life and doesn't have
the battery problems etc of iPods. I also download podcasts from time
to time and store them for later (I use Limewire - free) to keep
abreast and stimulated.

http://www.gutenberg.org

As for Lady Chatterly, I first read "her" at age 13 - the book was
smuggled into N.Z. as it was banned there. Today, we would wonder what
all the fuss was about. I recall that my friends and I were sorely
disappointed when we read it. There was much better titilation (no pun
intended) in the African articles of National Geographic. Just shows
how societies' mores have changed (I will be 60 in November). I much
prefer his other works and especially some of his poems such as
"Don'ts" which for a long time was my Ten Commandments and 'Snake".
Did you know that his remains are interred in the US? He was a great
friend of Aldous Huxley who wrote "Brave New World", another Britain
who lived and died in the US. Huxley wanted to become an American
citizen after living there for years but objected to the part of the
oath that he would take up arms in its defense - like Lawrence and
many others of the time, he was a pacifist, a belief strengthened by
the insane slaughter in WWI..

I think I have searched out and read nearly all of Mark Twain's
writings. Apart from his descriptions of life and the world about him,
I like his humility, humour and his ability to see things in a cynical
manner. I don't mean in a negative way but in the true meaning of the
word - to see things as they are.

Most of my reading lately is trash. I work on the boat; I eat supper;
it's too early to go to bed; I read a book, the last thing I want to
do is read a good book because I've got to get up tomorrow and do it
all again, so I read trash. Science Fiction; Fantasy; Detective
stories, etc.

Well, given that you have a boy in high school it might have been
correct, when you were ten, that Americans read, but it certainly
isn't true now. I have no contact with the U.S. except for the
internet so can't say from experience but when I read some idiot's
remarks about something he saw on TV that is physically impossible it
really makes me wonder.

But then have political leaders who are old enough to remember the
last time we got ourselves into a situation where we didn' know how to
get out of it and did it again. Truly, Those who cannot learn from
history are doomed to repeat it.

At the risk of being flamed again, I really feel for the families of
those getting killed in this generation's Vietnam. I have met a lot of
servicemen, mainly navy, around the world and many of them are from
economically disadvantaged backgrounds who joined the military to get
an education or a trade. Perhaps if those who decided to send the
troops to conflicts that are not directly in defense of the homeland
had their sons in the ranks and in the front line, Vietnam and Iraq
would not have happened. Vietnam now seems so pointless and such a
terrible waste of life.

A Japanese Haiku best sums it up for me.

Of twenty thousand warriors life and sword and shield
Naught hath remained but the summer grass
Growing over the old battlefield

By the way, when we stopped off at Hawaii on the way back to Sydney,
we took our son to Pearl Harbour to see the Arizona Memorial and the
WWII submarine that the owner and I had visited in 1982. To our
delight we discovered that the Battleship Missouri was now a permanent
exhibit. It is one "big mother" of a ship. One link of the stud-link
anchor chain would serve well as a storm anchor for Herodotus. I
didn't know that it was refurbished and was used in the First Gulf
War. The spot on the aft port side deck where the Japanese surrender
was signed in Tokyo Bay is marked and fenced off with ropes. I always
regretted that the Japanese Yamato, the largest battleship with the
biggest guns ever built was sunk by US planes. It would have been good
to see it today. I wonder how the two, Missouri and Yamato, without
intervening air power, would have fared in a standoff. I have an
excellent recent Australian SBS documentary "Battleships" if you would
like a copy (Do they have electricity in Bangkok to use your DVD
player?).

Enough for this evening.


Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

cheers,
Peter

On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 09:08:01 +1000, Herodotus
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 18:56:08 +0700, wrote:

(Reading preferences snipped)

I've long been partial to Joseph Conrad for sea-related literature.
But like many others, I've drifted away from the appreciative and
thoughtful sensibilities good literature demands. Well, perhaps not
from the sensibilities, but at least from the time and effort needed
to tune them properly.
There are many reading works I promise myself to return to, and yet it
doesn't happen.
First on my list is Richard Henry Dana's "Two Years Before the Mast,"
which is easily read, and totally engrossing.
For now though, I'm settling for the adventures of Bruce,
Peter......and Wilbur.

--Vic

On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 07:38:10 +1000, Herodotus
wrote:

Have you ever read D.H. Lawrence? In "The Sea and Sardinia" (I think
that is the title), one of his books about his travels through Italy
with his wife Frieda von Richthofen, he constantly refers to her as
"she", never by name. As an aside (my mind wanders off very easily),
whilst at Taormina in Sicily he wrote one of my favorite poems "The
Snake". It is very beautiful.

He later joined the RAF as an a/c two. Died in a motorbike crash.
Horribly mundane way to go for El Lawrence. of Arabia.

Brian Whatcott Altus OK

Brian Whatcott wrote:
:On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 07:38:10 +1000, Herodotus
:wrote:

:Have you ever read D.H. Lawrence? In "The Sea and Sardinia" (I think
:that is the title), one of his books about his travels through Italy
:with his wife Frieda von Richthofen, he constantly refers to her as
:"she", never by name. As an aside (my mind wanders off very easily),
:whilst at Taormina in Sicily he wrote one of my favorite poems "The
:Snake". It is very beautiful.

:He later joined the RAF as an a/c two. Died in a motorbike crash.
:Horribly mundane way to go for El Lawrence. of Arabia.

That's T.E. Lawrence, not D.H. Lawrence. Different people.

On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 21:53:24 -0500, Brian Whatcott
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 07:38:10 +1000, Herodotus
wrote:

Have you ever read D.H. Lawrence? In "The Sea and Sardinia" (I think
that is the title), one of his books about his travels through Italy
with his wife Frieda von Richthofen, he constantly refers to her as
"she", never by name. As an aside (my mind wanders off very easily),
whilst at Taormina in Sicily he wrote one of my favorite poems "The
Snake". It is very beautiful.

He later joined the RAF as an a/c two. Died in a motorbike crash.
Horribly mundane way to go for El Lawrence. of Arabia.

Brian Whatcott Altus OK

Sorry Brian, wrong Lawrence. That was T.E. I was talking about David
Herbert Lawrence. He died of tuberculosis.

cheers
Peter

On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 14:19:28 -0400, Ruby Vee
wrote:

On 2007-08-16 07:56:08 -0400, said:

Probably in self defense, my mother introduced me to the public
library as soon as I could read. My Goodness, there was a lot of
information in that building and right on the way home from school --
if I took a bit of a detour. At one time I was the youngest person in
my home town to possess a "library card".

My father introduced me to the public library -- after I read
everything in the children's library and was too young to get a library
car in the adult library, he gave me his library card to use. Then he
walked me to the library, introduced me to the head librarian and told
her "Let Ruby read anything she wants to read. If she has questions,
or if you're really concerned about whether it's appropriate for her,
call me." It was a small town. I think the only call my father ever
received wasn't from the librarian, but from my high school English
teacher who had a problem with me doing a book report on "The
Godfather." He threatened me with detention (and I had a job to get
to!) and demanded to know what my parents would think of me reading
such trash. (It was in the early 70s.) My father had given me the
book! The English teacher called my father, and it was the last time
he ever questioned my reading choices!


I guess I have read D.H. Lawrence, at least the more lurid parts of
Lady Chatterly. Really hard core stuff in my youth


Hemingway, is good and bad. Most of the bull fighting books were great
on detail but dwelled, and dwelled, and dwelled, and dwelled on the
tension and fear building up before the matador enters the ring. I
found them tedious. On the other hand the old man and the sea, was, I
believe, one of the best books about small time commercial fishing
that has been written.

I feel the same way about much of Hemingway's work. But the old man
and the sea was good. And Lady Chatterly was quite interesting -- at
least the lurid bits. I was too young when I read it to really
understand the story, though. I ought to give it another try.


Mark Twain (which, by the way, is 12 feet) is a writer that I enjoy as
I do Kipling. Neither of them would be published in the present day of
"political correctness" which seems a puzzle as it is neither
political nor correct, but that is another story. I keep a copy of Kim
and re-read it at least once a year.

I enjoyed Mark Twain. And Kipling, but I loved Jack London. And Steinbeck.


Most of my reading lately is trash. I work on the boat; I eat supper;
it's too early to go to bed; I read a book, the last thing I want to
do is read a good book because I've got to get up tomorrow and do it
all again, so I read trash. Science Fiction; Fantasy; Detective
stories, etc.

It's hard not to enjoy trash like sci fi, fantasy and detective
stories. That makes up the majority of my reading these days, and for
the same reasons. (Not working on a boat, per se, but working.) I
read to relax, and I don't want to have to work at it.

Well, given that you have a boy in high school it might have been
correct, when you were ten, that Americans read, but it certainly
isn't true now. I have no contact with the U.S. except for the
internet so can't say from experience but when I read some idiot's
remarks about something he saw on TV that is physically impossible it
really makes me wonder.

Americans do read -- although I think that it's the women reading while
the men control the TV remote and watch one idiotic thing after the
next.


But then have political leaders who are old enough to remember the
last time we got ourselves into a situation where we didn' know how to
get out of it and did it again. Truly, Those who cannot learn from
history are doomed to repeat it.

Ruby Vee, in the US working to build up a cruising kitty.

An old Australian told me, "you don't need it, just go." He was
actually talking about equipment but equipment costs money. You really
don't need as much as West Marine implies that you do.

You do need an accurate voltage gauge to monitor your batteries but if
you do some research (Trojan is a good site to start with) you'll find
that you can get along perfectly well with a auto battery charger. If
your solar panels and/or wind generator don't get your batteries over
13.5 volts then you don't need a regulator for them since 13.5 is
about what an expensive three stage battery charger will hold your
batteries at anyway.

I could go on and on but the secret is to research the system until
you really do understand it and then buy what you need.

I'll see you when you pass through.


Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 09:08:01 +1000, Herodotus
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 18:56:08 +0700, wrote:


Ah Peter, the last work iin morning after remarks, "I'd like to marry
you but I'd have to build a boat first...."

Probably in self defense, my mother introduced me to the public
library as soon as I could read. My Goodness, there was a lot of
information in that building and right on the way home from school --
if I took a bit of a detour. At one time I was the youngest person in
my home town to possess a "library card".

I guess I have read D.H. Lawrence, at least the more lurid parts of
Lady Chatterly. Really hard core stuff in my youth.

Hemingway, is good and bad. Most of the bull fighting books were great
on detail but dwelled, and dwelled, and dwelled, and dwelled on the
tension and fear building up before the matador enters the ring. I
found them tedious. On the other hand the old man and the sea, was, I
believe, one of the best books about small time commercial fishing
that has been written.

Mark Twain (which, by the way, is 12 feet) is a writer that I enjoy as
I do Kipling. Neither of them would be published in the present day of
"political correctness" which seems a puzzle as it is neither
political nor correct, but that is another story. I keep a copy of Kim
and re-read it at least once a year.

It seems that we have similar reading habits. "The Old Man and the
Sea" is one of my favourites. I probably read it once a year. I would
very much like to have the fortitude and calmness under difficult
situations of Santiago. Kipling's "Kim" is also and fired my
imagination as a child. I bought the audiobook of it from Naxos and
listen to it during night watch. I have also reduced it to MP3. If you
want a copy I could send a copy to you by snailmail if you should so
wish. Listening to it is not the same as reading but it is still
excellent. I am amassing quite a lot of audiobooks, some of which I
buy and other which I download from Project Gutenberg. They are a
great way to pass the time at night if you want to stay awake. My
cockpit stereo can play MP3s but I normally load everything on my
little 6 Gig. iRiver which has a 32 hour battery life and doesn't have
the battery problems etc of iPods. I also download podcasts from time
to time and store them for later (I use Limewire - free) to keep
abreast and stimulated.

Thqanks ands all but a "book" is something you open up and read. Not
on a computer screen and talking books always have the wrong sounding
voices.



http://www.gutenberg.org

As for Lady Chatterly, I first read "her" at age 13 - the book was
smuggled into N.Z. as it was banned there. Today, we would wonder what
all the fuss was about. I recall that my friends and I were sorely
disappointed when we read it. There was much better titilation (no pun
intended) in the African articles of National Geographic. Just shows
how societies' mores have changed (I will be 60 in November). I much
prefer his other works and especially some of his poems such as
"Don'ts" which for a long time was my Ten Commandments and 'Snake".
Did you know that his remains are interred in the US? He was a great
friend of Aldous Huxley who wrote "Brave New World", another Britain
who lived and died in the US. Huxley wanted to become an American
citizen after living there for years but objected to the part of the
oath that he would take up arms in its defense - like Lawrence and
many others of the time, he was a pacifist, a belief strengthened by
the insane slaughter in WWI..

I think I have searched out and read nearly all of Mark Twain's
writings. Apart from his descriptions of life and the world about him,
I like his humility, humour and his ability to see things in a cynical
manner. I don't mean in a negative way but in the true meaning of the
word - to see things as they are.

Most of my reading lately is trash. I work on the boat; I eat supper;
it's too early to go to bed; I read a book, the last thing I want to
do is read a good book because I've got to get up tomorrow and do it
all again, so I read trash. Science Fiction; Fantasy; Detective
stories, etc.

Well, given that you have a boy in high school it might have been
correct, when you were ten, that Americans read, but it certainly
isn't true now. I have no contact with the U.S. except for the
internet so can't say from experience but when I read some idiot's
remarks about something he saw on TV that is physically impossible it
really makes me wonder.

But then have political leaders who are old enough to remember the
last time we got ourselves into a situation where we didn' know how to
get out of it and did it again. Truly, Those who cannot learn from
history are doomed to repeat it.

At the risk of being flamed again, I really feel for the families of
those getting killed in this generation's Vietnam. I have met a lot of
servicemen, mainly navy, around the world and many of them are from
economically disadvantaged backgrounds who joined the military to get
an education or a trade. Perhaps if those who decided to send the
troops to conflicts that are not directly in defense of the homeland
had their sons in the ranks and in the front line, Vietnam and Iraq
would not have happened. Vietnam now seems so pointless and such a
terrible waste of life.

There is a bit more to it then that. Baring the drafted troops in
Vietnam we were all professional military, guys who, while maybe not
planning on making it their carrier had volunteered to be in the
service. Some time after I retired the U.S. Government, in all their
brilliance, decided that we didn't need such a large standing military
force and much of the regular forces were disbanded and replaced by
the National Guard so a large proportion of the guys going to the
middle east and maybe for their second or third trip are not
professional soldiers but are a sort of temporary soldiers. All these
guys volunteered for was a couple of weeks of summer camp each year.

A Japanese Haiku best sums it up for me.

Of twenty thousand warriors life and sword and shield
Naught hath remained but the summer grass
Growing over the old battlefield

By the way, when we stopped off at Hawaii on the way back to Sydney,
we took our son to Pearl Harbour to see the Arizona Memorial and the
WWII submarine that the owner and I had visited in 1982. To our
delight we discovered that the Battleship Missouri was now a permanent
exhibit. It is one "big mother" of a ship. One link of the stud-link
anchor chain would serve well as a storm anchor for Herodotus. I
didn't know that it was refurbished and was used in the First Gulf
War. The spot on the aft port side deck where the Japanese surrender
was signed in Tokyo Bay is marked and fenced off with ropes. I always
regretted that the Japanese Yamato, the largest battleship with the
biggest guns ever built was sunk by US planes. It would have been good
to see it today. I wonder how the two, Missouri and Yamato, without
intervening air power, would have fared in a standoff. I have an
excellent recent Australian SBS documentary "Battleships" if you would
like a copy (Do they have electricity in Bangkok to use your DVD
player?).

I read quite a bit about the Yamato. Apparently the design had been in
the works for some years and two keels were laid down. One was the
Yamato and I believe the other was to have been an aircraft carrier
(but don't hold me to that). In any event the second hull was launched
and then sunk by torpedo while being hauled to whatever yard was going
to fit it out.


Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)