On Sep 4, 8:24 am, "
wrote:

Oh, forgot my favorite boat that is much dismissed...................
look at the 1970s Cascade boats. Should be several up there.
Bob

wrote in message
ups.com...
On Sep 5, 5:45 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...



My wife and I have had a 30 year old swing keel Catalina 22 for five
years.We just spent four weeks sailing it from Port Townsend WA, where
we live, to Princess Louisa Inlet. The boat handled everything fine,
but we are beginning to think we want something a bit bigger if we are
going to do more of the same and perhaps go further north.

We have been so pleased with the C22 that we are starting to look for
a C27 in the $10,000-12,000 range. However I recall reading somewhere
that the old C27s didn't sail too well and the Catalina 270,
introduced in 1994, was a big improvement - though that is probably
outside our price range.

We need a boat with headroom around 6 ft, and easily singlehanded as I
can't always persuade the first mate to come.

Does anyone have any comments on the C27, or alternative boats of this
size ?

The best 27-footer ever built and you can find one for sale from time to
time.

http://captneal.homestead.com/Vessel.html (from my mentor's site) The
good Captain has told me he has offers all the time from people who want
to buy his find blue-water cruising vessel. He's been offered up to 20
grand but refuses to sell because it would take close to 40 or 50 grand
in labor and equipment to build up a bare Coronado 27 to the same specs.

Be sure to follow the links at the bottom of the page to see lots of
pictures of the inside and outside of this impressive vessel. You'll
understand the meaning of "Bristol fashion."

Wilbur Hubbard

Wilbur,

Thanks, but I am not sure what you are saying. Is a Coronado
27 a great boat in itself, or is it just that your Captain's
individually modified boat is a great boat ?

Richard



He's saying that he (Wilber and Neal are the same person) spent a lot of
time and effort fixing up a boat that he could afford. If he sold it, he'd
be living in a rented RV. Coronados are so-so boats. Not terrible, not
great.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Sep 5, 9:49 pm, Bob wrote:
On Sep 4, 8:24 am, "
wrote:

Oh, forgot my favorite boat that is much dismissed...................
look at the 1970s Cascade boats. Should be several up there.
Bob

Bob,

Thanks. Do tell me more about the Cascade 27 and how it compares
with a Catalina 27. Is this the boat you bought in PT?

Richard

On Sep 6, 8:21 am, "
wrote:
On Sep 5, 9:49 pm, Bob wrote:

On Sep 4, 8:24 am, "
wrote:

Thanks. Do tell me more about the Cascade 27 and how it compares
with a Catalina 27. Is this the boat you bought in PT?

Richard


Hi Richard:

The boat I bought in PT is a Gannon built and finished 1979 Freya 39.
A bit more robust that a Cascade 27 but better suited for what I do. I
have sat on and yacked with several ownners of Cascades over the
years. They vary suprisingly in finsih and configuation realy can not
comment other than the 1970s hulls are bulit proof in that you gots
lots of hand layed glass. ALl the owners I talked to said they were
stable predictable boats. Not fast by Wilburs standards but good
boats. Just need to remember with any 1970s boat you'll replace the
rig, portlights (windows) and fuel tank; rebed all deck hardware , and
gut/ the DC/AC electric pannel and most the wire. You can either do it
right the first time or end up llike Skip & Lydia half assing piece by
piece along the road. Personally i belive cruising should be fun not
one repair after another.

Did you look at the Mahina link I left? There are lots of really sound
boats out there for where you plan on cruising. Dont get locked into
an one boat just because its popular. Take the Freya for example. NOt
many out there. Most folks haven't heard of them, but a very fine boat
fo rwhat I do. ALthough a very slow boat according to Willl burr.

If your like most, including myself, youll find toooo many boats to
consider. I'll leave you with what a surgeon friend of mine says,
"better is the enemy of good." Get a good boat, not the "best boat,"
clean it up, and go have some fun!

Bob

wrote in message
ups.com...


Thanks, but I am not sure what you are saying. Is a Coronado
27 a great boat in itself, or is it just that your Captain's
individually modified boat is a great boat ?

Richard



Both. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. The good Captain
would never be so stupid as to throw good money after bad.

Wilbur Hubbard

On 2007-09-04 11:24:10 -0400, "
said:

My wife and I have had a 30 year old swing keel Catalina 22 for five
years.We just spent four weeks sailing it from Port Townsend WA, where
we live, to Princess Louisa Inlet. The boat handled everything fine,
but we are beginning to think we want something a bit bigger if we are
going to do more of the same and perhaps go further north.

We did the same 15 years ago.

Short story: I suggest you determine what you can reasonably expect to
do for the next 5-7 years and list what you need in a boat,
particularly accommodations as they will mean quite a bit more than
they did in the 22. I'll tell you, the first time you stand up to put
on your pants will be an eye-opener! 95% of the time, long distance
cruisers are in a harbor, so accomodationss become more important the
further and longer you go.

Our priorities: Full-time berth for two real adults. (75% of the boats
out there fail that test.) Making up the bed each evening gets old
fast. Head, galley, interior seating, stowage, and cockpit followed in
rough priority. Only after both of us were satisfied with that did my
concerns (keel, hull form, sail plan, etc.) come into play. After some
pretty-fair cruising, I'd add having a reliable engine with fairly high
priority.

A "slow" sailboat can be considerably improved with a good set of
sails. Ours is fast enough stock, but I like speed, so we have a couple
of semi-custom jibs, a proper main and great cruising chute. We
generally keep up with (or pass) boats 10' longer, and regularly pass
30-35' cats under chute.

After 16 seasons of doing far more than our pre-purchase expectations,
Xan's still sufficient for our expected needs for the next 5-7 years,
including an extended trip at least in the Bahamas, possibly through
the BVI. I hope you do as well.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's new pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI pages: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On 2007-09-04 11:24:10 -0400, "
said:

we are beginning to think we want something a bit bigger if we are
going to do more of the same and perhaps go further north.

Oh, a good site from someone who did the same thing: cruisenews.net

(Oh, and guess what boat he got? [it wasn't the Alberg which was his
ideal when he started the site.] ;-)

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's new pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI pages: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On Sep 6, 11:08 am, Bob wrote:
On Sep 6, 8:21 am, "
wrote:

On Sep 5, 9:49 pm, Bob wrote:

On Sep 4, 8:24 am, "
wrote:
Thanks. Do tell me more about the Cascade 27 and how it compares
with a Catalina 27. Is this the boat you bought in PT?

Richard

Hi Richard:

The boat I bought in PT is a Gannon built and finished 1979 Freya 39.
A bit more robust that a Cascade 27 but better suited for what I do. I
have sat on and yacked with several ownners of Cascades over the
years. They vary suprisingly in finsih and configuation realy can not
comment other than the 1970s hulls are bulit proof in that you gots
lots of hand layed glass. ALl the owners I talked to said they were
stable predictable boats. Not fast by Wilburs standards but good
boats.

....And I assume heavy with a full-keel. In other words, what we call
here in the Pac NW an "offshore-capable" boat.

"Offshore" is a mystical word here. Because we have a HUGE breakwater
known as Vancouver Island, most boaters never go "offshore". So,
there's a mystique around it. "Did you hear about Bob on 'Endless
Love'? He went offshore..." So there's a romantic appeal to an
"offshore" boat.

OTOH, I call them GTE: Get There Eventually. There are virtually NO
conditions "inside" that require a full keel, and since most of the
time the winds are light (and Murphy says they're also blowing from
your destination!), you need a boat that will sail well upwind in
light air, or you'll be motoring wherever you go.

So, if you want a "good solid boat" like a Cascade (or Columbia,
Grampian, Alberg...) be prepared to either wallow in the swells a lot,
or motor. If you want to sail, you need a lighter-weight, fin-keel
boat. (Yes, Columbias and Grampians are both fin-keel, but perform
terribly in light air!). That's not to say you can't get a well-built
boat, though. The Cal/Crown line is VERY well-built, but sail quite
well in any conditions you find "inside" (and not bad "outside", like
the WCVI, but probably not Oregon Coast). Islanders seem well-built as
well. Ericsons are great, although the 27 is another GTE.

Where does Catalina fit into all this? They're EXCELLENT in terms of a
well-sailing boat with lots of room. Their "fit and finish" are not
that great, so the older boats tend to have lots of little things
wrong with them. I wouldn't take a Cat 27 "offshore" (although many
have), but they're actually better suited for the Pac NW than a
Cascade.

Just my opinion...
druid
http://www.bcboatnet.org

druid wrote:
On Sep 6, 11:08 am, Bob wrote:
On Sep 6, 8:21 am, "
wrote:

On Sep 5, 9:49 pm, Bob wrote:
On Sep 4, 8:24 am, "
wrote:
Thanks. Do tell me more about the Cascade 27 and how it compares
with a Catalina 27. Is this the boat you bought in PT?
Richard
Hi Richard:

The boat I bought in PT is a Gannon built and finished 1979 Freya 39.
A bit more robust that a Cascade 27 but better suited for what I do. I
have sat on and yacked with several ownners of Cascades over the
years. They vary suprisingly in finsih and configuation realy can not
comment other than the 1970s hulls are bulit proof in that you gots
lots of hand layed glass. ALl the owners I talked to said they were
stable predictable boats. Not fast by Wilburs standards but good
boats.

...And I assume heavy with a full-keel. In other words, what we call
here in the Pac NW an "offshore-capable" boat.

"Offshore" is a mystical word here. Because we have a HUGE breakwater
known as Vancouver Island, most boaters never go "offshore". So,
there's a mystique around it. "Did you hear about Bob on 'Endless
Love'? He went offshore..." So there's a romantic appeal to an
"offshore" boat.

OTOH, I call them GTE: Get There Eventually. There are virtually NO
conditions "inside" that require a full keel, and since most of the
time the winds are light (and Murphy says they're also blowing from
your destination!), you need a boat that will sail well upwind in
light air, or you'll be motoring wherever you go.

So, if you want a "good solid boat" like a Cascade (or Columbia,
Grampian, Alberg...) be prepared to either wallow in the swells a lot,
or motor. If you want to sail, you need a lighter-weight, fin-keel
boat. (Yes, Columbias and Grampians are both fin-keel, but perform
terribly in light air!). That's not to say you can't get a well-built
boat, though. The Cal/Crown line is VERY well-built, but sail quite
well in any conditions you find "inside" (and not bad "outside", like
the WCVI, but probably not Oregon Coast). Islanders seem well-built as
well. Ericsons are great, although the 27 is another GTE.

Where does Catalina fit into all this? They're EXCELLENT in terms of a
well-sailing boat with lots of room. Their "fit and finish" are not
that great, so the older boats tend to have lots of little things
wrong with them. I wouldn't take a Cat 27 "offshore" (although many
have), but they're actually better suited for the Pac NW than a
Cascade.

Just my opinion...
druid
http://www.bcboatnet.org


Cascade 27 is a fin keel with balanced rudder that goes well in light
air.
Gordon