Skip Gundlach wrote:

....offering a
lowball on a Gulfstar 44 which looked like it could work. That deal never
panned out, as it wasn't countered other than verbally to the effect of
'when you're serious, come back and we'll talk about it.'.

Just as well. The times we tried to open negotiations with owner/sellers that
wanted too much money, it turned out for the best.

...... Sort of an
interesting story on that boat that we learned about in talking with the
owner of the canal house behind which it's tied while the owners have been
off it for 3 years, and it's shown at fortydays.org, for those interested in
it. This boat is a backup at this point, as Lydia's high on curb appeal,
and this needs a bit of polish.

You pay extra for 'curb appeal' and if all the boat needs is clean & polish,
then it ould be a better deal. Hard to tell about it's condition & equipment
from th web page though.


..... It's now owned by an
attorney who somehow had connections with the family or the deceased. We
don't now know the relationship, or if there's some partnership or other
financial personal interest in play here, but it's *not* in an estate, if it
ever was.

AA-OO-GA warning warning
This sounds like a burn deal in the making. Prudence would suggest putting this
boat at the bottom of the priority list, unless it's significantly cheaper *and*
you get your own big-gun lawyer to deal with the selling lawyer. Unless you want
him to pocket a lot of your money and then take you to lunch after your court
appearance....




It's been a long trip, and I'm blessed to have been able to do the research
and travel I've done. Short of having a boat already in mind that you know
will work for you, and is everything you want it to be (accepting that my
height added inconceivably to the challenge), I can't imagine how anyone
who's employed could do this in less than half a lifetime.

Easy- most people pick a boat far more casually with a lot less data & logic
input. Which makes sense, because the more logicallly you look at it, the less
reason to buy a boat in the first place. However it sounds like you have covered
all the bases and are going to have a great boat (whichever one it ends up
being).

Fresh Breezes-
Doug King

x-no-archive:yes

"Skip Gundlach"
wrote:
snip This boat had received major upgrades to make
suitable for singlehanding, all of which were appropriate expenditures,
though I would not have made them. There's too many to list here; suffice
it to say one's not likely to fall overboard, and everything can be done
from the cockpit other than handing the lines to the dock - but the boat can
be put, stationary, at any position, for long enough to go do the lines,
singlehanded.

We want to be able to do everything from the cockpit even though there
are 2 of us. I can't tell you how many times I've blessed the fact
that no one has to go out on the deck in rough weather.

And the once that Bob had to go out there before we had jacklines was
scary for me even though we were only in the Chesapeake and he had an
autoinflat PFD on. I didn't think I could possibly get back to pick
him up if he fell off.

snip
It's been a long trip, and I'm blessed to have been able to do the research
and travel I've done. Short of having a boat already in mind that you know
will work for you, and is everything you want it to be (accepting that my
height added inconceivably to the challenge), I can't imagine how anyone
who's employed could do this in less than half a lifetime.

We were lucky in that we chartered a boat that Bob promptly fell in
love with. We looked at other boats, but it only confirmed that we
wanted this particular make, although Bob and I had a disagreement
about the model we should get.

grandma Rosalie

S/V RosalieAnn, Leonardtown, MD
CSY 44 WO #156
http://home.mindspring.com/~gmbeasley/id2.html

Damn it takes you a lot of lookin... I bought a new "used" boat last year
and it took only one boat to look at. Maybe I already knew what I wanted
and didn't want to spend thousands on trips etc.

Hope that you like the Morgan. Hope that it is a bit better than the OI41
that normally has to run the engine while tacking.

Capn Bill

Greetings...

"Capn Willy" wrote in message
. com...
Damn it takes you a lot of lookin... I bought a new "used" boat last year
and it took only one boat to look at. Maybe I already knew what I wanted
and didn't want to spend thousands on trips etc.

Now that we know what we want, we won't be spending much time looking,
either. I gather you've not read the preceding stuff, or you'd know that
this was hardly idle windowshopping, nor thousands to spend to get there.
In fact, since my college rowing buddy had a full house, my most expensive
room nights were on this trip, both at $50 - for the Marriott in WPB and the
Doubletree in FTL on the beach... The other night was aboard a Morgan 46.

Hope that you like the Morgan. Hope that it is a bit better than the OI41
that normally has to run the engine while tacking.

I can't speak to those. This one (well, technically, its sistership) tacked
in 5 knots of wind and was at between 6-7 knots over ground in both
directions at about 8-10 apparent at about 35* off the wind, and has a
fin/skeg underbody with a long forefoot to keep it tracking. The ability of
this type to sail was one of my first concerns, since allayed. Sisterships
report successful way at 30* in higher air and a totally stable freight
train at up to and including 50 knots.

I hope we like it too. Thanks for your interest :{))

L8R

Skip (and Lydia, by proxy)

--
"And then again, when you sit at the helm of your little ship on a clear
night, and gaze at the countless stars overhead, and realize that you are
quite alone on a wide, wide sea, it is apt to occur to you that in the
general scheme of things you are merely an insignificant speck on the
surface of the ocean; and are not nearly so important or as self-sufficient
as you thought you were. Which is an exceedingly wholesome thought, and one
that may effect a permanent change in your deportment that will be greatly
appreciated by your friends."- James S. Pitkin

On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 23:32:28 GMT, "Skip Gundlach"
wrote:



I can't speak to those. This one (well, technically, its sistership) tacked
in 5 knots of wind and was at between 6-7 knots over ground in both
directions at about 8-10 apparent at about 35* off the wind, and has a
fin/skeg underbody with a long forefoot to keep it tracking. The ability of
this type to sail was one of my first concerns, since allayed. Sisterships
report successful way at 30* in higher air and a totally stable freight
train at up to and including 50 knots.

I hope we like it too. Thanks for your interest :{))

I think the galley looks quite impressive. I would move those sinks to
the centerline if they aren't there already, but you can't tell easily
from the photo. Do the tender and davits come with the boat?

Looks generally good and the price is good, too, probably because she
is well into middle age and cosmetically a little worn and old
fashioned in layout and trim.

Or, as many would say, well-seasoned and seamanlike. I know you don't
require reminding, but I think your trouble spots would include deck
rot/wet spots (are Morgans solid laminate under deck gear? Are there
backing plates?) and areas like the partners, engine mounts, shaft
log, thru-hulls, rudder posts, steering linkages, roller-reefing and
so on, if not regularly upgraded and maintained. The habits of the
P.O. are usually visible (updated flares, wood plugs beside
thru-hulls, good selection of spares, maintenance logs, post-market
upgrades in lighting, beefed-up wiring and so on--if half of that is
present, it's a very good sign). Mast work is probably needed, but a
redo of all the standing rigging would be automatic for me before
extensive cruising, if only to provide a baseline for my time of
salt-water ownership. Probably a few new blocks and lines, too,
although I would use a ratty 10-year old sheet any day over an
original tang at the masthead on a 25 year old salty boat. There's
always another sheet aboard, and racers throw out hundreds of feet of
perfectly good dirty Spectra and Vectran a year at my club G.

Extensive cruising creates extensive wear and extensive opportunities
to correct and even improve beyond factory the effects of extensive
wear. My boat is sounder now than when new in 1973, but looks pretty
rough. Looks count for little in my book, and layout and "sensible,
moderate, robust" systems and ease of access count for a lot. Your
special height requirements narrowed the field considerably, and I
would like to see your "dream short list" if money and head clearance
weren't an issue, with an emphasis on stowage, passagemaking ability
and pure sailing pleasure. Like, say, you were six foot tall and you
had $250,000 to spend. What would you have considered in a used but
sound cruiser?

Good luck and I hope the deal goes your way. Frankly, the "lawyer"
getting the dead guy's boat sounds dodgy, and I'd check for liens,
off-the-books refinancing deals or whether the thing is collateral in
a high-stakes poker game involving a drug lord.

If you're lucky, it's legit and the lawyer will just bill you for his
hours spent selling it to you. G

R.

Greetings and felicitations :{))

wrote in message
...
I think the galley looks quite impressive. I would move those sinks to
the centerline if they aren't there already, but you can't tell easily

The sinks are not on the centerline - the edge of the counter is about at
centerline (note mast position), and to do that would interfere with the
companionway and even the access into the galley. If I were redoing it, I
could move it to the edge, however, which would be pretty close. However,
there are strap hooks, and it's not far off center, so I don't know that I'd
go to that expense. Can you suggest why it would be a good idea to spend
that rehab money to move it closer?

from the photo. Do the tender and davits come with the boat?

Oh, dear... It appears I wasn't clear. The boat you're speaking of is the
'cruising boat' - and the tender and motor are gone, as referred to in the
original. However, the very stout davits do come with *that* boat. The one
we've offered on has no davits, but does have a roll-up and a new motor.

The one we've offered on, with the attorney/owner, is
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...16&slim=quick&,
and video frame shots of it can be found in
http://justpickone.org/skip/gallery under High Time, along with some of the
considered modifications at M46Mod, taken from Lydia's second choice, also
very rehabbed, but even more expensive.

Looks generally good and the price is good, too, probably because she
is well into middle age and cosmetically a little worn and old
fashioned in layout and trim.

Indeed. Yet, that's also the one which *I* think could have the mods above
done pretty reasonably. I'm getting a firm quote this evening.

Or, as many would say, well-seasoned and seamanlike. I know you don't
require reminding, but I think your trouble spots would include deck
rot/wet spots (are Morgans solid laminate under deck gear? Are there
backing plates?) and areas like the partners, engine mounts, shaft

These boats were solid hulls, and plywood cored decks with solid areas of
attaching/through points. Backing material on all stuff. The offer boat
has also had the screws for the toe rail replaced with through-bolts, along
with other similar upgrades on other attachment points.

log, thru-hulls, rudder posts, steering linkages, roller-reefing and
so on, if not regularly upgraded and maintained. The habits of the
P.O. are usually visible (updated flares, wood plugs beside
thru-hulls, good selection of spares, maintenance logs, post-market

I've not seen but one boat with the plugs next to the through-hulls, but
that's what I'll do on any boat I own.

upgrades in lighting, beefed-up wiring and so on--if half of that is
present, it's a very good sign). Mast work is probably needed, but a

Most of that is present in the offer boat, and the rigging is pretty recent,
upgraded.

redo of all the standing rigging would be automatic for me before
extensive cruising, if only to provide a baseline for my time of
salt-water ownership. Probably a few new blocks and lines, too,
although I would use a ratty 10-year old sheet any day over an
original tang at the masthead on a 25 year old salty boat. There's
always another sheet aboard, and racers throw out hundreds of feet of
perfectly good dirty Spectra and Vectran a year at my club G.

Heh. I've got to come hang around your club :{))


Extensive cruising creates extensive wear and extensive opportunities
to correct and even improve beyond factory the effects of extensive
wear. My boat is sounder now than when new in 1973, but looks pretty
rough. Looks count for little in my book, and layout and "sensible,
moderate, robust" systems and ease of access count for a lot. Your

That's always been my driving factor, but Lydia's got a point in contending
that this will be our home, as well as the difficulty of addressing that
later, with all of our stuff aboard, or, perhaps, not at all, when it
represents an additional expenditure and we'd rather keep in the kitty...

So, I'd be tickled with the 'cruising' boat, but also can't deny that the
'offer' boat is extremely well equipped and in great condition right from
the start.

special height requirements narrowed the field considerably, and I
would like to see your "dream short list" if money and head clearance
weren't an issue, with an emphasis on stowage, passagemaking ability
and pure sailing pleasure. Like, say, you were six foot tall and you
had $250,000 to spend. What would you have considered in a used but
sound cruiser?

I'm always looking to make the bucks go further, so, assuming I'm getting
into a class of boat which can be bought new for that amount, or a sound
used cruiser, I'd still have to consider the fact of ongoing maintenance.
One of the brokers I've worked with is also a new Beneteau dealer, and makes
the point of the various warranties and new vs. worn condition of new vs
'used' boats. He's got a point - but if I could get a great deal more boat
in excellent condition, and have a substantial reserve for maintenance, I'd
probably do that instead of blowing it all on a new one, because, as they
say, "stuff" happens...

Good luck and I hope the deal goes your way. Frankly, the "lawyer"
getting the dead guy's boat sounds dodgy, and I'd check for liens,
off-the-books refinancing deals or whether the thing is collateral in
a high-stakes poker game involving a drug lord.

Heh. We'll do our due diligence on it. I'm not thrilled with the scenario,
and because I'm a couple of layers removed, and it's not been worth making
an issue of it, I don't know how it happened. I might get my broker to chat
up the other on the subject in conversation, just to see if he'll say how it
happened. The fact that it is listed as an estate sale, when, now, it's
clearly not, suggests the transition happened during the time of the
listing.

If you're lucky, it's legit and the lawyer will just bill you for his
hours spent selling it to you. G

Heh. At most lawyers' rates, it could be worse than the counter!

L8R

Skip (and Lydia, by proxy)

--
"And then again, when you sit at the helm of your little ship on a clear
night, and gaze at the countless stars overhead, and realize that you are
quite alone on a great, wide sea, it is apt to occur to you that in the
general scheme of things you are merely an insignificant speck on the
surface of the ocean; and are not nearly so important or as self-sufficient
as you thought you were. Which is an exceedingly wholesome thought, and one
that may effect a permanent change in your deportment that will be greatly
appreciated by your friends."- James S. Pitkin

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 17:30:13 GMT, "Skip Gundlach"
wrote:

Greetings and felicitations :{))

wrote in message
.. .
I think the galley looks quite impressive. I would move those sinks to
the centerline if they aren't there already, but you can't tell easily

The sinks are not on the centerline - the edge of the counter is about at
centerline (note mast position), and to do that would interfere with the
companionway and even the access into the galley.

That's what it looked like, but the lens distortion was such that I
couldn't be sure. Still a nice galley, regardless...all you need is
two feet of secured webbing and you'll stay in it on all points of
sail G

If I were redoing it, I
could move it to the edge, however, which would be pretty close. However,
there are strap hooks, and it's not far off center, so I don't know that I'd
go to that expense. Can you suggest why it would be a good idea to spend
that rehab money to move it closer?

Beside the obvious reason for sinks to lie on the centerline (less
slosh, no favoured tacks for galley work, etc.), I find that I
frequently keep the sink empty to chuck empties and other light stuff
down the companionway to get it out of the cockpit (charts, hats,
rubber chickens and so on). You can get quite accurate with underhand
tosses. Probably not worth the effort, though.

from the photo. Do the tender and davits come with the boat?

Oh, dear... It appears I wasn't clear. The boat you're speaking of is the
'cruising boat' - and the tender and motor are gone, as referred to in the
original. However, the very stout davits do come with *that* boat. The one
we've offered on has no davits, but does have a roll-up and a new motor.

OK, I didn't read your post closely enough, I guess.

The one we've offered on, with the attorney/owner, is
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...16&slim=quick&,
and video frame shots of it can be found in
http://justpickone.org/skip/gallery under High Time, along with some of the
considered modifications at M46Mod, taken from Lydia's second choice, also
very rehabbed, but even more expensive.

Wow. Considerably better, I can see, and STILL a pretty good deal.
Those deck boxes and the hardtop bimini are very nice. You've got to
love the nav station/workshop.

Looks generally good and the price is good, too, probably because she
is well into middle age and cosmetically a little worn and old
fashioned in layout and trim.

Indeed. Yet, that's also the one which *I* think could have the mods above
done pretty reasonably. I'm getting a firm quote this evening.

I suspect many here following "Skip's Saga" will be interested in the
number. The 45K difference in price is "not trivial" as they say, and
nice as "High Time" is, I would personally opt for $45K of custom work
to do the cheaper, if equivalent boat just as I wanted it. Personally,
I would do the V-berth as the workshop/storage area (light stuff,
naturally) with maybe a pipe or Pulman berth on one side, with a big
long locker beneath.

I'd keep the nav station for small jobs, but mostly just nav. The
salon I would alter to seaberths with lee cloths. Mostly, you'll be
two people only, not six, and if you have a second couple, they can be
in the cabin.

Or, as many would say, well-seasoned and seamanlike. I know you don't
require reminding, but I think your trouble spots would include deck
rot/wet spots (are Morgans solid laminate under deck gear? Are there
backing plates?) and areas like the partners, engine mounts, shaft

These boats were solid hulls, and plywood cored decks with solid areas of
attaching/through points. Backing material on all stuff. The offer boat
has also had the screws for the toe rail replaced with through-bolts, along
with other similar upgrades on other attachment points.

Good, good. Screws have no place on decks, IMO. Through-bolts every
six inches or better.

log, thru-hulls, rudder posts, steering linkages, roller-reefing and
so on, if not regularly upgraded and maintained. The habits of the
P.O. are usually visible (updated flares, wood plugs beside
thru-hulls, good selection of spares, maintenance logs, post-market

I've not seen but one boat with the plugs next to the through-hulls, but
that's what I'll do on any boat I own.

Glad to hear it. So far, my 250 boat club is averaging one sinking at
dock a year from cocks left open, rotten hose, single clamps and the
absence of a way to plug the holes in the first place.

upgrades in lighting, beefed-up wiring and so on--if half of that is
present, it's a very good sign). Mast work is probably needed, but a

Most of that is present in the offer boat, and the rigging is pretty recent,
upgraded.

Very good.

redo of all the standing rigging would be automatic for me before
extensive cruising, if only to provide a baseline for my time of
salt-water ownership. Probably a few new blocks and lines, too,
although I would use a ratty 10-year old sheet any day over an
original tang at the masthead on a 25 year old salty boat. There's
always another sheet aboard, and racers throw out hundreds of feet of
perfectly good dirty Spectra and Vectran a year at my club G.

Heh. I've got to come hang around your club :{))

We're a big race club and host a number of regattas (C&Cs, Mumm 30s,
Stars) each year, and we are gearing up to host more. Also, we have
insanely competitive club racing, and that's how I got a Kevlar main
and No. 1 for $400.00. Recutting them and restoring them from luff
tape to hanks and track slugs will close to double that, but they are
practically new and a Dacron main and No. 1 would run me nearly $5K.

The cordage is a bonus. I have short pieces of very expensive line
holding some of my fenders on G.


Extensive cruising creates extensive wear and extensive opportunities
to correct and even improve beyond factory the effects of extensive
wear. My boat is sounder now than when new in 1973, but looks pretty
rough. Looks count for little in my book, and layout and "sensible,
moderate, robust" systems and ease of access count for a lot. Your

That's always been my driving factor, but Lydia's got a point in contending
that this will be our home, as well as the difficulty of addressing that
later, with all of our stuff aboard, or, perhaps, not at all, when it
represents an additional expenditure and we'd rather keep in the kitty...

True, which is why maybe the cheaper, less cosmetically pretty boat is
better. Once you are aboard, you will quickly learn what works FOR YOU
TWO as cruising liveaboards, and you can "slate for demolition" areas
you want to custom refit as you can afford to.

So, I'd be tickled with the 'cruising' boat, but also can't deny that the
'offer' boat is extremely well equipped and in great condition right from
the start.

Sure, but the price difference is pretty large for boats one year
apart. Me, if the survey was similar, I'd pop for the cheaper boat and
custom refit the worst of it right away, and refine the rest over
time.

R.

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 17:30:13 GMT, "Skip Gundlach"
wrote:

Greetings and felicitations :{))

wrote in message
.. .
I think the galley looks quite impressive. I would move those sinks to
the centerline if they aren't there already, but you can't tell easily

The sinks are not on the centerline - the edge of the counter is about at
centerline (note mast position), and to do that would interfere with the
companionway and even the access into the galley.

That's what it looked like, but the lens distortion was such that I
couldn't be sure. Still a nice galley, regardless...all you need is
two feet of secured webbing and you'll stay in it on all points of
sail G

If I were redoing it, I
could move it to the edge, however, which would be pretty close. However,
there are strap hooks, and it's not far off center, so I don't know that I'd
go to that expense. Can you suggest why it would be a good idea to spend
that rehab money to move it closer?

Beside the obvious reason for sinks to lie on the centerline (less
slosh, no favoured tacks for galley work, etc.), I find that I
frequently keep the sink empty to chuck empties and other light stuff
down the companionway to get it out of the cockpit (charts, hats,
rubber chickens and so on). You can get quite accurate with underhand
tosses. Probably not worth the effort, though.

from the photo. Do the tender and davits come with the boat?

Oh, dear... It appears I wasn't clear. The boat you're speaking of is the
'cruising boat' - and the tender and motor are gone, as referred to in the
original. However, the very stout davits do come with *that* boat. The one
we've offered on has no davits, but does have a roll-up and a new motor.

OK, I didn't read your post closely enough, I guess.

The one we've offered on, with the attorney/owner, is
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...16&slim=quick&,
and video frame shots of it can be found in
http://justpickone.org/skip/gallery under High Time, along with some of the
considered modifications at M46Mod, taken from Lydia's second choice, also
very rehabbed, but even more expensive.

Wow. Considerably better, I can see, and STILL a pretty good deal.
Those deck boxes and the hardtop bimini are very nice. You've got to
love the nav station/workshop.

Looks generally good and the price is good, too, probably because she
is well into middle age and cosmetically a little worn and old
fashioned in layout and trim.

Indeed. Yet, that's also the one which *I* think could have the mods above
done pretty reasonably. I'm getting a firm quote this evening.

I suspect many here following "Skip's Saga" will be interested in the
number. The 45K difference in price is "not trivial" as they say, and
nice as "High Time" is, I would personally opt for $45K of custom work
to do the cheaper, if equivalent boat just as I wanted it. Personally,
I would do the V-berth as the workshop/storage area (light stuff,
naturally) with maybe a pipe or Pulman berth on one side, with a big
long locker beneath.

I'd keep the nav station for small jobs, but mostly just nav. The
salon I would alter to seaberths with lee cloths. Mostly, you'll be
two people only, not six, and if you have a second couple, they can be
in the cabin.

Or, as many would say, well-seasoned and seamanlike. I know you don't
require reminding, but I think your trouble spots would include deck
rot/wet spots (are Morgans solid laminate under deck gear? Are there
backing plates?) and areas like the partners, engine mounts, shaft

These boats were solid hulls, and plywood cored decks with solid areas of
attaching/through points. Backing material on all stuff. The offer boat
has also had the screws for the toe rail replaced with through-bolts, along
with other similar upgrades on other attachment points.

Good, good. Screws have no place on decks, IMO. Through-bolts every
six inches or better.

log, thru-hulls, rudder posts, steering linkages, roller-reefing and
so on, if not regularly upgraded and maintained. The habits of the
P.O. are usually visible (updated flares, wood plugs beside
thru-hulls, good selection of spares, maintenance logs, post-market

I've not seen but one boat with the plugs next to the through-hulls, but
that's what I'll do on any boat I own.

Glad to hear it. So far, my 250 boat club is averaging one sinking at
dock a year from cocks left open, rotten hose, single clamps and the
absence of a way to plug the holes in the first place.

upgrades in lighting, beefed-up wiring and so on--if half of that is
present, it's a very good sign). Mast work is probably needed, but a

Most of that is present in the offer boat, and the rigging is pretty recent,
upgraded.

Very good.

redo of all the standing rigging would be automatic for me before
extensive cruising, if only to provide a baseline for my time of
salt-water ownership. Probably a few new blocks and lines, too,
although I would use a ratty 10-year old sheet any day over an
original tang at the masthead on a 25 year old salty boat. There's
always another sheet aboard, and racers throw out hundreds of feet of
perfectly good dirty Spectra and Vectran a year at my club G.

Heh. I've got to come hang around your club :{))

We're a big race club and host a number of regattas (C&Cs, Mumm 30s,
Stars) each year, and we are gearing up to host more. Also, we have
insanely competitive club racing, and that's how I got a Kevlar main
and No. 1 for $400.00. Recutting them and restoring them from luff
tape to hanks and track slugs will close to double that, but they are
practically new and a Dacron main and No. 1 would run me nearly $5K.

The cordage is a bonus. I have short pieces of very expensive line
holding some of my fenders on G.


Extensive cruising creates extensive wear and extensive opportunities
to correct and even improve beyond factory the effects of extensive
wear. My boat is sounder now than when new in 1973, but looks pretty
rough. Looks count for little in my book, and layout and "sensible,
moderate, robust" systems and ease of access count for a lot. Your

That's always been my driving factor, but Lydia's got a point in contending
that this will be our home, as well as the difficulty of addressing that
later, with all of our stuff aboard, or, perhaps, not at all, when it
represents an additional expenditure and we'd rather keep in the kitty...

True, which is why maybe the cheaper, less cosmetically pretty boat is
better. Once you are aboard, you will quickly learn what works FOR YOU
TWO as cruising liveaboards, and you can "slate for demolition" areas
you want to custom refit as you can afford to.

So, I'd be tickled with the 'cruising' boat, but also can't deny that the
'offer' boat is extremely well equipped and in great condition right from
the start.

Sure, but the price difference is pretty large for boats one year
apart. Me, if the survey was similar, I'd pop for the cheaper boat and
custom refit the worst of it right away, and refine the rest over
time.

R.

Greetings and felicitations :{))

wrote in message
...
I think the galley looks quite impressive. I would move those sinks to
the centerline if they aren't there already, but you can't tell easily

The sinks are not on the centerline - the edge of the counter is about at
centerline (note mast position), and to do that would interfere with the
companionway and even the access into the galley. If I were redoing it, I
could move it to the edge, however, which would be pretty close. However,
there are strap hooks, and it's not far off center, so I don't know that I'd
go to that expense. Can you suggest why it would be a good idea to spend
that rehab money to move it closer?

from the photo. Do the tender and davits come with the boat?

Oh, dear... It appears I wasn't clear. The boat you're speaking of is the
'cruising boat' - and the tender and motor are gone, as referred to in the
original. However, the very stout davits do come with *that* boat. The one
we've offered on has no davits, but does have a roll-up and a new motor.

The one we've offered on, with the attorney/owner, is
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...16&slim=quick&,
and video frame shots of it can be found in
http://justpickone.org/skip/gallery under High Time, along with some of the
considered modifications at M46Mod, taken from Lydia's second choice, also
very rehabbed, but even more expensive.

Looks generally good and the price is good, too, probably because she
is well into middle age and cosmetically a little worn and old
fashioned in layout and trim.

Indeed. Yet, that's also the one which *I* think could have the mods above
done pretty reasonably. I'm getting a firm quote this evening.

Or, as many would say, well-seasoned and seamanlike. I know you don't
require reminding, but I think your trouble spots would include deck
rot/wet spots (are Morgans solid laminate under deck gear? Are there
backing plates?) and areas like the partners, engine mounts, shaft

These boats were solid hulls, and plywood cored decks with solid areas of
attaching/through points. Backing material on all stuff. The offer boat
has also had the screws for the toe rail replaced with through-bolts, along
with other similar upgrades on other attachment points.

log, thru-hulls, rudder posts, steering linkages, roller-reefing and
so on, if not regularly upgraded and maintained. The habits of the
P.O. are usually visible (updated flares, wood plugs beside
thru-hulls, good selection of spares, maintenance logs, post-market

I've not seen but one boat with the plugs next to the through-hulls, but
that's what I'll do on any boat I own.

upgrades in lighting, beefed-up wiring and so on--if half of that is
present, it's a very good sign). Mast work is probably needed, but a

Most of that is present in the offer boat, and the rigging is pretty recent,
upgraded.

redo of all the standing rigging would be automatic for me before
extensive cruising, if only to provide a baseline for my time of
salt-water ownership. Probably a few new blocks and lines, too,
although I would use a ratty 10-year old sheet any day over an
original tang at the masthead on a 25 year old salty boat. There's
always another sheet aboard, and racers throw out hundreds of feet of
perfectly good dirty Spectra and Vectran a year at my club G.

Heh. I've got to come hang around your club :{))


Extensive cruising creates extensive wear and extensive opportunities
to correct and even improve beyond factory the effects of extensive
wear. My boat is sounder now than when new in 1973, but looks pretty
rough. Looks count for little in my book, and layout and "sensible,
moderate, robust" systems and ease of access count for a lot. Your

That's always been my driving factor, but Lydia's got a point in contending
that this will be our home, as well as the difficulty of addressing that
later, with all of our stuff aboard, or, perhaps, not at all, when it
represents an additional expenditure and we'd rather keep in the kitty...

So, I'd be tickled with the 'cruising' boat, but also can't deny that the
'offer' boat is extremely well equipped and in great condition right from
the start.

special height requirements narrowed the field considerably, and I
would like to see your "dream short list" if money and head clearance
weren't an issue, with an emphasis on stowage, passagemaking ability
and pure sailing pleasure. Like, say, you were six foot tall and you
had $250,000 to spend. What would you have considered in a used but
sound cruiser?

I'm always looking to make the bucks go further, so, assuming I'm getting
into a class of boat which can be bought new for that amount, or a sound
used cruiser, I'd still have to consider the fact of ongoing maintenance.
One of the brokers I've worked with is also a new Beneteau dealer, and makes
the point of the various warranties and new vs. worn condition of new vs
'used' boats. He's got a point - but if I could get a great deal more boat
in excellent condition, and have a substantial reserve for maintenance, I'd
probably do that instead of blowing it all on a new one, because, as they
say, "stuff" happens...

Good luck and I hope the deal goes your way. Frankly, the "lawyer"
getting the dead guy's boat sounds dodgy, and I'd check for liens,
off-the-books refinancing deals or whether the thing is collateral in
a high-stakes poker game involving a drug lord.

Heh. We'll do our due diligence on it. I'm not thrilled with the scenario,
and because I'm a couple of layers removed, and it's not been worth making
an issue of it, I don't know how it happened. I might get my broker to chat
up the other on the subject in conversation, just to see if he'll say how it
happened. The fact that it is listed as an estate sale, when, now, it's
clearly not, suggests the transition happened during the time of the
listing.

If you're lucky, it's legit and the lawyer will just bill you for his
hours spent selling it to you. G

Heh. At most lawyers' rates, it could be worse than the counter!

L8R

Skip (and Lydia, by proxy)

--
"And then again, when you sit at the helm of your little ship on a clear
night, and gaze at the countless stars overhead, and realize that you are
quite alone on a great, wide sea, it is apt to occur to you that in the
general scheme of things you are merely an insignificant speck on the
surface of the ocean; and are not nearly so important or as self-sufficient
as you thought you were. Which is an exceedingly wholesome thought, and one
that may effect a permanent change in your deportment that will be greatly
appreciated by your friends."- James S. Pitkin

On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 23:32:28 GMT, "Skip Gundlach"
wrote:



I can't speak to those. This one (well, technically, its sistership) tacked
in 5 knots of wind and was at between 6-7 knots over ground in both
directions at about 8-10 apparent at about 35* off the wind, and has a
fin/skeg underbody with a long forefoot to keep it tracking. The ability of
this type to sail was one of my first concerns, since allayed. Sisterships
report successful way at 30* in higher air and a totally stable freight
train at up to and including 50 knots.

I hope we like it too. Thanks for your interest :{))

I think the galley looks quite impressive. I would move those sinks to
the centerline if they aren't there already, but you can't tell easily
from the photo. Do the tender and davits come with the boat?

Looks generally good and the price is good, too, probably because she
is well into middle age and cosmetically a little worn and old
fashioned in layout and trim.

Or, as many would say, well-seasoned and seamanlike. I know you don't
require reminding, but I think your trouble spots would include deck
rot/wet spots (are Morgans solid laminate under deck gear? Are there
backing plates?) and areas like the partners, engine mounts, shaft
log, thru-hulls, rudder posts, steering linkages, roller-reefing and
so on, if not regularly upgraded and maintained. The habits of the
P.O. are usually visible (updated flares, wood plugs beside
thru-hulls, good selection of spares, maintenance logs, post-market
upgrades in lighting, beefed-up wiring and so on--if half of that is
present, it's a very good sign). Mast work is probably needed, but a
redo of all the standing rigging would be automatic for me before
extensive cruising, if only to provide a baseline for my time of
salt-water ownership. Probably a few new blocks and lines, too,
although I would use a ratty 10-year old sheet any day over an
original tang at the masthead on a 25 year old salty boat. There's
always another sheet aboard, and racers throw out hundreds of feet of
perfectly good dirty Spectra and Vectran a year at my club G.

Extensive cruising creates extensive wear and extensive opportunities
to correct and even improve beyond factory the effects of extensive
wear. My boat is sounder now than when new in 1973, but looks pretty
rough. Looks count for little in my book, and layout and "sensible,
moderate, robust" systems and ease of access count for a lot. Your
special height requirements narrowed the field considerably, and I
would like to see your "dream short list" if money and head clearance
weren't an issue, with an emphasis on stowage, passagemaking ability
and pure sailing pleasure. Like, say, you were six foot tall and you
had $250,000 to spend. What would you have considered in a used but
sound cruiser?

Good luck and I hope the deal goes your way. Frankly, the "lawyer"
getting the dead guy's boat sounds dodgy, and I'd check for liens,
off-the-books refinancing deals or whether the thing is collateral in
a high-stakes poker game involving a drug lord.

If you're lucky, it's legit and the lawyer will just bill you for his
hours spent selling it to you. G

R.