Greetings...

"Capn Willy" wrote in message
. com...
Damn it takes you a lot of lookin... I bought a new "used" boat last year
and it took only one boat to look at. Maybe I already knew what I wanted
and didn't want to spend thousands on trips etc.

Now that we know what we want, we won't be spending much time looking,
either. I gather you've not read the preceding stuff, or you'd know that
this was hardly idle windowshopping, nor thousands to spend to get there.
In fact, since my college rowing buddy had a full house, my most expensive
room nights were on this trip, both at $50 - for the Marriott in WPB and the
Doubletree in FTL on the beach... The other night was aboard a Morgan 46.

Hope that you like the Morgan. Hope that it is a bit better than the OI41
that normally has to run the engine while tacking.

I can't speak to those. This one (well, technically, its sistership) tacked
in 5 knots of wind and was at between 6-7 knots over ground in both
directions at about 8-10 apparent at about 35* off the wind, and has a
fin/skeg underbody with a long forefoot to keep it tracking. The ability of
this type to sail was one of my first concerns, since allayed. Sisterships
report successful way at 30* in higher air and a totally stable freight
train at up to and including 50 knots.

I hope we like it too. Thanks for your interest :{))

L8R

Skip (and Lydia, by proxy)

--
"And then again, when you sit at the helm of your little ship on a clear
night, and gaze at the countless stars overhead, and realize that you are
quite alone on a wide, wide sea, it is apt to occur to you that in the
general scheme of things you are merely an insignificant speck on the
surface of the ocean; and are not nearly so important or as self-sufficient
as you thought you were. Which is an exceedingly wholesome thought, and one
that may effect a permanent change in your deportment that will be greatly
appreciated by your friends."- James S. Pitkin

x-no-archive:yes

"Skip Gundlach"
wrote:
snip This boat had received major upgrades to make
suitable for singlehanding, all of which were appropriate expenditures,
though I would not have made them. There's too many to list here; suffice
it to say one's not likely to fall overboard, and everything can be done
from the cockpit other than handing the lines to the dock - but the boat can
be put, stationary, at any position, for long enough to go do the lines,
singlehanded.

We want to be able to do everything from the cockpit even though there
are 2 of us. I can't tell you how many times I've blessed the fact
that no one has to go out on the deck in rough weather.

And the once that Bob had to go out there before we had jacklines was
scary for me even though we were only in the Chesapeake and he had an
autoinflat PFD on. I didn't think I could possibly get back to pick
him up if he fell off.

snip
It's been a long trip, and I'm blessed to have been able to do the research
and travel I've done. Short of having a boat already in mind that you know
will work for you, and is everything you want it to be (accepting that my
height added inconceivably to the challenge), I can't imagine how anyone
who's employed could do this in less than half a lifetime.

We were lucky in that we chartered a boat that Bob promptly fell in
love with. We looked at other boats, but it only confirmed that we
wanted this particular make, although Bob and I had a disagreement
about the model we should get.

grandma Rosalie

S/V RosalieAnn, Leonardtown, MD
CSY 44 WO #156
http://home.mindspring.com/~gmbeasley/id2.html

Damn it takes you a lot of lookin... I bought a new "used" boat last year
and it took only one boat to look at. Maybe I already knew what I wanted
and didn't want to spend thousands on trips etc.

Hope that you like the Morgan. Hope that it is a bit better than the OI41
that normally has to run the engine while tacking.

Capn Bill

"Skip Gundlach" wrote:
Well, as those following the saga know, we've settled on a Morgan 46...snip...

Congratulations! I'm so happy for you. And, Hey!, give Lydia a big hug
from me! I can't wait to hear about your progress toward sea trials.

Frank and the girls

"Skip Gundlach" wrote:
Well, as those following the saga know, we've settled on a Morgan 46...snip...

Congratulations! I'm so happy for you. And, Hey!, give Lydia a big hug
from me! I can't wait to hear about your progress toward sea trials.

Frank and the girls

Curiouser and curiouser...

The world has kept turning since this original post a week ago, and there
have been some developments.

"Skip Gundlach" wrote in
message hlink.net...
Well, as those following the saga know, we've settled on a Morgan 46,
whether shoal, deep, ketch, sloop, inner forestay or other configuration,
as
the layout and other specs so nearly meet our direct design parameters.
(clip)
So, at about 4:30 PM on 2 January, we made our third boat offer (the first
died on the vine, the second was the subject of a post about buying a boat
but giving it back).

The owner, apparently, is currently out of town, so we have no word yet on
our offer. Like every other offer, much can happen between offer and
closing, so we're not yet getting our hopes up - but from what we've heard
from the listing broker, this certainly looks like it will be our boat...

They came back with a slightly more than 10% reduction, which is still about
that much away from what we're comfortable to pay for that boat, so, I asked
for some more information and followup from our broker. That didn't happen
in the week or so since I sent it off, so...

Yesterday, the broker on the extensively rehabbed boat - "Miss Munley" -
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...60&slim=quick& -
which started this process (put us back into M46s) called and said that,
yet again, the listing broker had called him soliciting *any* offer.
Supposedly, the seller calls *her* every day wanting to know about what's
happening. He sez, pushing, make an offer, saying - "I asked her, even a
really low offer? - She sez, Yes!" so I asked what he'd recommend. It was a
third off. Of course, I knew it would never fly, but we did it, anyway. In
between, I'd asked him to send me a copy of the sold M46s from YachtWorld's
Boat Wizard that the brokers can see but we can't. By looking at the raw
data, I was able to track down the selling broker and the listing number,
and have compiled a spreadsheet of 23 boats sold in the last 4 years. Both
these boats (the first one being High Time and the next being Miss Munley)
are way in the high end of the curve of boats offered for sale in that time.
The offers we're making are in the high end of the average selling prices,
about 10% higher than average.

We gave a 24 hour window, since the communication between the broker and
seller seemed to be constant and therefore would not be a problem to get an
answer. Sure enough, it came back quickly, with about a 4% reduction. It
was about as I'd have expected (not a serious counter), so I don't expect
we'll follow up on it.

However, my broker recommended countering at a level we know we can buy High
Time for, and I mentioned that, along with that I hadn't responded to *that*
counter, either. Panic set it :{)) (He hadn't known we had offered on
another boat.) However it happened, whoever was called, he and his listing
broker now think that *we* seatrialed High Time, that "nothing worked" and
that we rejected the boat...

So, I went back to my broker on High Time, telling him the story. Some more
is coming to light. First, he said, "I just spoke to the listing broker for
High Time. He said High Time had been sea trialed about two months ago, and
due to a broken belt the engine overheated and he didn't go further with
survey." This from the broker who said that there had only been "one offer,
not serious" on this boat...

He went on to say that the broker, "did tell me that the person who sea
trialed High Time has been looking for a boat for about three years, and he
won't have anything to do with him." Ya gotta wonder just how serious a
buyer one has to be (or how serious an offer has to be) in order to get an
offer accepted, pehaps incur travel expenses (don't have a clue about
whether the guy's local) engage a surveyor, and go to sea trial...

Put that together with the broker (HT lister, not mine) saying that at 20k
more than we offered, he'd "take an offer" to the seller (with the
implication that he wouldn't if it weren't that high), and that he's
"getting really tired of cleaning the boat" (topsides guano scrub once in a
while - it's obvious nobody's done anything below), I wonder if he's
independently wealthy, that he can afford to turn away folks with money in
their hands. (He won't have anything to do with a guy who apparently had an
offer accepted, and won't present any offer that doesn't meet his client's
[only] counter - sounds like a good way to drive off business...)

It gets better. Followers of this saga know that an attorney owns the boat,
and there's thought to be some connection to an estate, as the boat was
listed that way, initially. The web site and the YachtWorld listing sez, "
'High Time' is an estate sale. She is a very special Morgan 46' with custom
features and equipment that justify the asking price. The owner bought this
boat for its strength and spaciousness and then set about making it
everything he wanted in his ideal boat." That's an obvious implication that
the owner died either after, or during, his changes, and the estate is
selling it.

So, my broker talks to him again, and gets this: "Could have been from
before the guy died. According to listing broker High Time is definitely not
an estate sale."

Hm. You'd think the listing broker might know a bit about his own listing,
wouldn't you??

So, here we are, with two open counters, neither of which pleases us much,
but the most achievable one is most likely High Time. Except that the
engine room didn't look *AT ALL* the same standard as the rest of the boat,
and with a relatively high-hours engine, plus the most recent experience,
we're a bit gunshy on that point. In addition, just as we can reject a boat
on the survey results and offer a lower price, the seller can reject our
post-survey offer and stick fast to his number. So, in addition to the
possibility that it will take rather more than we're able to pay comfortably
just to get started, we already know about some things which will require
attention, even before the survey, as well as some things we know we'd like
to do (more significant bux). *I* think we have to be prepared to take the
boat at the price agreed upon, given the history so far, and so we're
looking at some significant potential increase in an already uncomfortable
price.

So, we're thinking... We'll talk with our broker again tomorrow and see
what might be appropriate. I still don't like that the listing and the
reality, at least as presented, don't match. Unlike the 'cruising' or
'project' boat on which we'd gotten the repair/upgrade estimates, and which
I was able to find in my sold listings, so I have some history on it,
getting the facts on this boat has resolutely been stymied so far...

Of course, we still have the other backups - the several in the Virgins
which our broker over there's checking out, and the one which needs a lot of
work on which we have estimates but which Lydia really would prefer not even
to discuss - and more will come on the market as time goes by.

We still think we'll buy this boat - but it sure is more difficult than just
a bit of money negotiation!

L8R

Skip and Lydia

--
"And then again, when you sit at the helm of your little ship on a clear
night, and gaze at the countless stars overhead, and realize that you are
quite alone on a great, wide sea, it is apt to occur to you that in the
general scheme of things you are merely an insignificant speck on the
surface of the ocean; and are not nearly so important or as self-sufficient
as you thought you were. Which is an exceedingly wholesome thought, and one
that may effect a permanent change in your deportment that will be greatly
appreciated by your friends."- James S. Pitkin

You might want to check out Ebay...there is a 1981 morgan 46 that is
$75,000.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=2452681 009

Skip Gundlach wrote:

Curiouser and curiouser...

Skip, by constantly staying in touch with these brokers, you are sending the wrong message. Go look at other boats. Go
play golf. GO do anything except pester these guys to sell you one of these boats. The message you are sending is
(loosely translated) "I am really on the hook and *will* buy this boat at your price if you play me right." You need to
walk away, at least for a little while. The odds are very low that either of these boats is going to sell in the next two
weeks.




They came back with a slightly more than 10% reduction, which is still about
that much away from what we're comfortable to pay for that boat...

Not trying to hammer at anything here, but you have only two choices... buy or not. If they want to entice you to buy by
lowering the price, you'll have to wait for them to come to that conclusion.




Yesterday, the broker on the extensively rehabbed boat - "Miss Munley" ..... called and said that,
yet again, the listing broker had called him soliciting *any* offer.
Supposedly, the seller calls *her* every day wanting to know about what's
happening. He sez, pushing, make an offer, saying - "I asked her, even a
really low offer? - She sez, Yes!" so I asked what he'd recommend. It was a
third off. Of course, I knew it would never fly, but we did it, anyway.

heh. That was being polite. In that same situation, I'd have offered half.

In
between, I'd asked him to send me a copy of the sold M46s from YachtWorld's
Boat Wizard that the brokers can see but we can't. By looking at the raw
data, I was able to track down the selling broker and the listing number,
and have compiled a spreadsheet of 23 boats sold in the last 4 years. Both
these boats (the first one being High Time and the next being Miss Munley)
are way in the high end of the curve of boats offered for sale in that time.
The offers we're making are in the high end of the average selling prices,
about 10% higher than average.

Which is what I mean by saying that you seem to be on the hook here. If you want to definitely buy one of these two boats
in the near future, you are going to pay a premium for that. If you want to hang on to more of your money, you'll just
have to play a waiting game.

.....
Put that together with the broker (HT lister, not mine) saying that at 20k
more than we offered, he'd "take an offer" to the seller (with the
implication that he wouldn't if it weren't that high), and that he's
"getting really tired of cleaning the boat" (topsides guano scrub once in a
while - it's obvious nobody's done anything below), I wonder if he's
independently wealthy, that he can afford to turn away folks with money in
their hands. (He won't have anything to do with a guy who apparently had an
offer accepted, and won't present any offer that doesn't meet his client's
[only] counter - sounds like a good way to drive off business...)

Many brokers do wierd stuff. That's why they are in the boat business, where a certain amount of eccentricity is
acceptable, instead of in some more straightlaced business. OTOH that doesn't mean you have to hand them your money....

Good luck with the continuing story.

DSK

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 09:58:01 -0500, DSK wrote:

Skip Gundlach wrote:

Curiouser and curiouser...

Skip, by constantly staying in touch with these brokers, you are sending the wrong message. Go look at other boats. Go
play golf. GO do anything except pester these guys to sell you one of these boats. The message you are sending is
(loosely translated) "I am really on the hook and *will* buy this boat at your price if you play me right." You need to
walk away, at least for a little while. The odds are very low that either of these boats is going to sell in the next two
weeks.

This is superb advice. Sometimes being the boss means letting go of
the tiller...

.. If you want to hang on to more of your money, you'll just
have to play a waiting game.

You *want* to buy an unwrecked Morgan 46...fair and good...It doesn't
have to be either of these...particularly that dodgy lawyer-involved
one. The brokers sound a bit dim, actually.

R.

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 09:58:01 -0500, DSK wrote:

Skip Gundlach wrote:

Curiouser and curiouser...

Skip, by constantly staying in touch with these brokers, you are sending the wrong message. Go look at other boats. Go
play golf. GO do anything except pester these guys to sell you one of these boats. The message you are sending is
(loosely translated) "I am really on the hook and *will* buy this boat at your price if you play me right." You need to
walk away, at least for a little while. The odds are very low that either of these boats is going to sell in the next two
weeks.

This is superb advice. Sometimes being the boss means letting go of
the tiller...

.. If you want to hang on to more of your money, you'll just
have to play a waiting game.

You *want* to buy an unwrecked Morgan 46...fair and good...It doesn't
have to be either of these...particularly that dodgy lawyer-involved
one. The brokers sound a bit dim, actually.

R.