wrote:

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 09:48:49 -0400, Martin Baxter
wrote:

Evan Gatehouse wrote:

Never seen this discussed befo

Could I use thin stainless steel foil instead of copper foil in the
bilge as a ground for a long wire (backstay antenna) ham radio setup?

Evan Gatehouse

You may get some electrolysis where your copper ground connects to the
foil, if you have any water in the bilge and it's saline you certainly
will. You'll probably end up with a fairly high resistance (bad)
connection in short order.

Cheers
Marty

Higher resistance then the connection to the stainless back stay?

Only if your backstay spends long periods of time submerged, but then
you'll probably have other larger problems. ;-)

Cheers
Marty

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On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 09:51:03 -0400, Martin Baxter
wrote:

wrote:

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 09:48:49 -0400, Martin Baxter
wrote:

Evan Gatehouse wrote:

Never seen this discussed befo

Could I use thin stainless steel foil instead of copper foil in the
bilge as a ground for a long wire (backstay antenna) ham radio setup?

Evan Gatehouse

You may get some electrolysis where your copper ground connects to the
foil, if you have any water in the bilge and it's saline you certainly
will. You'll probably end up with a fairly high resistance (bad)
connection in short order.

Cheers
Marty

Higher resistance then the connection to the stainless back stay?

Only if your backstay spends long periods of time submerged, but then
you'll probably have other larger problems. ;-)

Cheers
Marty

------------ And now a word from our sponsor ----------------------
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To obtain capacitance coupling to the ocean the plate has only to be
below the external water line and I have not seen too many boats with
bilge water that high.

Further if the plate is only acting as the ground plane in an antenna
system then to avoid electrolyses the RF ground should be connected to
the plate through high voltage capacitors thus no DC current on the
plate.

If connections are made with proper tin plated wire and terminals
there is no reason that corrosion should be any more a problem then
with any other electrical systems mounted below the cabin sole.



Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

In article ,
wrote:

To obtain capacitance coupling to the ocean the plate has only to be
below the external water line and I have not seen too many boats with
bilge water that high.

Further if the plate is only acting as the ground plane in an antenna
system then to avoid electrolyses the RF ground should be connected to
the plate through high voltage capacitors thus no DC current on the
plate.

If connections are made with proper tin plated wire and terminals
there is no reason that corrosion should be any more a problem then
with any other electrical systems mounted below the cabin sole.



Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

If the "Plate" is to used to be one side of a Capacative Coupling
for the RF Grounding of an MF/HF Antenna System, then your "Best
Solution" is to use a material with the Lowest Resistance, Highest
Surface Area, encase it in the Thinest Dielectric Insulating
Film available, and mount it as close as possible to the SeaWater.
No High Voltage Capacitor, required, as the Dielectric Film will
be the DC Current Insulator.

Bruce in alaska
--
add path before @

Bruce in Alaska wrote in news:fast-
:

If the "Plate" is to used to be one side of a Capacative
Coupling
for the RF Grounding of an MF/HF Antenna System, then your
"Best
Solution" is to use a material with the Lowest Resistance,
Highest
Surface Area, encase it in the Thinest Dielectric Insulating
Film available, and mount it as close as possible to the
SeaWater.
No High Voltage Capacitor, required, as the Dielectric Film
will
be the DC Current Insulator.



Next time you're at sea and bored to tears, connect 100' of
plastic covered wire to the ground post on your tuner, sealed up
on the open end, if you like. The plastic is the "thin
dielectric film" in Bruce's eloquent description. It keeps the
water from eating the wire. Toss it overboard and let it trail
out in the ocean behind the boat, but DON'T FORGET TO REEL IT IN
BEFORE YOU ENTER HARBOR!

There, now you have a great "ocean RF ground" without rummaging
around down in the bilgewater and rats.

Try it before and after with someone at a distance you know and
see how much difference he sees in your signal "out there". It
makes about 5 S-units on Lionheart. Works great, cheap, easy to
deploy and retrieve, not to mention fun.

Oh, before I stop, I wanna mention:

DON'T PUT ANY SHINY CAN TOP AS A DRAG CHUTE LITTLE SEA ANCHOR TO
HOLD IT OUT TIGHT! "Something BIG!" ate my cat food tin can! It
also ate about 35' off the end of my wire! Musta been a WHOPPER!

"They", whoever "they" are, can't grab just the open-ended wire.

Larry
--
Maybe "they" were attracted to my melodious LSB on 75 meters!

On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 01:48:48 +0000, Larry wrote:

DON'T PUT ANY SHINY CAN TOP AS A DRAG CHUTE LITTLE SEA ANCHOR TO
HOLD IT OUT TIGHT! "Something BIG!" ate my cat food tin can! It
also ate about 35' off the end of my wire! Musta been a WHOPPER!

"They", whoever "they" are, can't grab just the open-ended wire.

Ships used to dangle a long line with a spinner on the end from the
stern of a boat or ship. It was attached to a mechanical counter. This
was called a taffrail log. [The one you threw was a chip log.]
Sometimes fish would disappear the spinner. I am surprised how seldom
it seems to have happened.

Casady

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 07:13:46 -0700, Joe
wrote:

And BTW
tarnished silver is the best, even better than gold.

The tarnish doesn't do anything good. On a relative scale, silver is
250, copper 225, as is gold. Aluminum is 175. Stainless is about like
lead, 6 or 8. Plain carbon steel is 25. Thermal conductivity is
closely correlated with electrical conductativity for what that is
worth. Better at one is generally better at the other.

Casady

On Oct 13, 7:27 am, (Richard Casady)
wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 07:13:46 -0700, Joe
wrote:

And BTW
tarnished silver is the best, even better than gold.

The tarnish doesn't do anything good. On a relative scale, silver is
250, copper 225, as is gold. Aluminum is 175. Stainless is about like
lead, 6 or 8. Plain carbon steel is 25. Thermal conductivity is
closely correlated with electrical conductativity for what that is
worth. Better at one is generally better at the other.

Casady

Richard...I'm telling you one of the worlds top antenna designers
lives here and I just happened to be lucky enough to get his help
setting up my radios. If he tells me tarnished silver is the best for
HF I take his word for it..If our goverment flys him all over the
earth to design develope and set up the best....that's good enough
reference for me.

Joe

On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 12:27:03 GMT, (Richard
Casady) wrote:

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 07:13:46 -0700, Joe
wrote:

And BTW
tarnished silver is the best, even better than gold.

The tarnish doesn't do anything good. On a relative scale, silver is
250, copper 225, as is gold. Aluminum is 175. Stainless is about like
lead, 6 or 8. Plain carbon steel is 25. Thermal conductivity is
closely correlated with electrical conductativity for what that is
worth. Better at one is generally better at the other.

Casady


I have silver at 0.0159 microhm meter at 20 degC
copper 0.0168 microhm.meter
gold 0.022 microhm meter

So gold may not be not quite as conductive as the best, but it STAYS
at that value - no tarnish....

Brian W

(Richard Casady) wrote in
:

Sometimes fish would disappear the spinner. I am surprised how
seldom
it seems to have happened.



I wonder if it were bigger than my catfood can. That might
explain the fewer hits. Someone aboard said, "Hey! Your wire
hit the bottom!", but I pointed out the DEPTH read 325' and my
wire was only 100' long....physics?

I didn't see it happen, just the aftermath...shortened wire. He
must have swallowed the can, leading to some fish cleaner
standing on the fish line at some packing plant to scratch her
head....(c; She'd wonder about my nice bridle I made to hold the
can for max drag.

I used the wire many times after that just like it was. Didn't
seem to make any difference. It's still a great ground plane to
work the tuner against.

My captain gets nervous when I talk on 20 meters and all the
lights in the panel modulate with my voice. It's only 150
watts....(c;


Larry
--
You can tell there's extremely
intelligent life in the universe
because they have never called Earth.

(Richard Casady) wrote in
:

And BTW
tarnished silver is the best, even better than gold.

The tarnish doesn't do anything good. On a relative scale,
silver is
250, copper 225, as is gold. Aluminum is 175. Stainless is
about like
lead, 6 or 8. Plain carbon steel is 25. Thermal conductivity is
closely correlated with electrical conductativity for what that
is
worth. Better at one is generally better at the other.

Casady



You boys worry about this WAY too much. Take a little reality
trip down to your favorite AM radio station and ask the engineer
if he'll show you the ground system at the base of one of the
towers. Don't touch the tower. It has kilowatts on it and the
arc will burn you. Notice how the bridge cables that have been
buried for 40 years look a little "tarnished" where you can see
'em. Half of 'em underground are just copper sulphate by now...
(c;

Your "tarnished" silver-plated ground strap is fine....mine, too.



Larry W4CSC and other fine old calls since 1957
--
You can tell there's extremely
intelligent life in the universe
because they have never called Earth.