Larry,

Could you give some detail regarding the new Honda generator sets, one
of which that I understand you have. I believe they are DC generators
driving an inverter.

Maybe some comments regarding purchase costs, operating, etc.

I'm thinking of trying one but they seem pretty scarce over here and
I'd hate to order one only to discover that they aren't what I
imagined.

I am presently rebuilding a power boat and will eventually need
auxiliary power and the choice is between a permanently mounted diesel
unit and (maybe) the Honda.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
Could you give some detail regarding the new Honda generator sets, one
of which that I understand you have. I believe they are DC generators
driving an inverter.

If you're talking about the EU2000i, I've had one for two seasons. They
also make a 1000 and 3000, but the 2000 is a good compromise of weight
and power.

They indeed have an inverter, which means the motor is variable speed.
At low load (or idle) it is very quiet and fuel efficient. I was,
however, disappointed in the noise level when run a full power. From 20
yards behind my boat, (cramped mooring field distance) it is much loader
than my Yanmar 2GM's, which means there are places I can't use it daily
without being anti-social. On the other hand, when the door on my cat
is closed and the genset exhaust pointed aft over the stern, it is
inaudible down below, so I can use it freely in more isolated anchorages.

The other disappointment is that it has trouble running my 100 Amp
battery charger. I would have thought 2 kW was enough, but it
frequently trips its breaker. I can limit the power use by the charger
so it runs happily charging at about 75 Amps - not bad, but it means an
extra 20 minutes or so to get the batteries up to the 80% point. Other
owners with similar chargers have reported getting 84 Amps, so I think
there's some variance, or perhaps ambient temp effects. Its also
possible to couple two of them for double power, so some owners carry
two. (Most of my sister ships have 10 hp outboards instead of diesels
so a genset is generally desired for cruising, and this is the one they
prefer.)

Maintenance is minimal, and it always starts on the first or second
pull. The 2kW model is small and light enough to fit in a cockpit
locker and be pulled out when needed. Although I used it a number of
times this summer I don't put on a lot of hours so I expect to get many
trouble free years of service. Its also handy at the house for fall and
winter storms that can pull down power lines, or as a portable power
source. Although it isn't everything I had hoped for, I'm still quite
happy with it.

On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 08:55:03 -0500, jeff wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
Could you give some detail regarding the new Honda generator sets, one
of which that I understand you have. I believe they are DC generators
driving an inverter.

If you're talking about the EU2000i, I've had one for two seasons. They
also make a 1000 and 3000, but the 2000 is a good compromise of weight
and power.

They indeed have an inverter, which means the motor is variable speed.
At low load (or idle) it is very quiet and fuel efficient. I was,
however, disappointed in the noise level when run a full power. From 20
yards behind my boat, (cramped mooring field distance) it is much loader
than my Yanmar 2GM's, which means there are places I can't use it daily
without being anti-social. On the other hand, when the door on my cat
is closed and the genset exhaust pointed aft over the stern, it is
inaudible down below, so I can use it freely in more isolated anchorages.

The other disappointment is that it has trouble running my 100 Amp
battery charger. I would have thought 2 kW was enough, but it
frequently trips its breaker. I can limit the power use by the charger
so it runs happily charging at about 75 Amps - not bad, but it means an
extra 20 minutes or so to get the batteries up to the 80% point. Other
owners with similar chargers have reported getting 84 Amps, so I think
there's some variance, or perhaps ambient temp effects. Its also
possible to couple two of them for double power, so some owners carry
two. (Most of my sister ships have 10 hp outboards instead of diesels
so a genset is generally desired for cruising, and this is the one they
prefer.)

Maintenance is minimal, and it always starts on the first or second
pull. The 2kW model is small and light enough to fit in a cockpit
locker and be pulled out when needed. Although I used it a number of
times this summer I don't put on a lot of hours so I expect to get many
trouble free years of service. Its also handy at the house for fall and
winter storms that can pull down power lines, or as a portable power
source. Although it isn't everything I had hoped for, I'm still quite
happy with it.



Thanks for the info. I had heard that the Hondas were a bit loud at
high power and had thought to rebuild the exhaust system to
incorporate a larger exhaust pipe and more muffling so, hopefully, it
would run quieter although only rarely do I anchor in crowded
anchorages.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
...

Thanks for the info. I had heard that the Hondas were a bit loud at
high power and had thought to rebuild the exhaust system to
incorporate a larger exhaust pipe and more muffling so, hopefully, it
would run quieter although only rarely do I anchor in crowded
anchorages.




What's the matter, Pop? Takes you too long to untie all those dock lines and
unplug the shore power cords and disconnect the water hoses and telephone
and cable TV? Not to mention getting all the laundry off the lifelines and
stowing all the junk that's lying all over every shelf and counter in the
accommodation? And scraping all the barnacles off the propeller and getting
the windlass working so you can get underway so you CAN anchor?

Wilbur Hubbard

On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 08:55:03 -0500, jeff wrote:

They indeed have an inverter, which means the motor is variable speed.
At low load (or idle) it is very quiet and fuel efficient. I was,
however, disappointed in the noise level when run a full power. From 20
yards behind my boat, (cramped mooring field distance) it is much loader
than my Yanmar 2GM's, which means there are places I can't use it daily
without being anti-social.

I've been moored near a couple of "on deck" Hondas and they are way
too loud. You could generate at least 2KW of AC by putting a high
output alternator on each Yanmar and feeding an inverter through
battery combiners.

Here's what I'm using:

http://www.fleetsource.com/product_p/110-555jho.htm

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|328|51495|606044&id=605590

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|328|51495|985|316473&id=88467

On Nov 20, 2:13 am, Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
Larry,

Could you give some detail regarding the new Honda generator sets, one
of which that I understand you have. I believe they are DC generators
driving an inverter.

Maybe some comments regarding purchase costs, operating, etc.

I'm thinking of trying one but they seem pretty scarce over here and
I'd hate to order one only to discover that they aren't what I
imagined.

I am presently rebuilding a power boat and will eventually need
auxiliary power and the choice is between a permanently mounted diesel
unit and (maybe) the Honda.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

With the exception of Wilbur, whose post didn't make sense to me, all
the points made are valid. I'm a summer liveaboard, on a mooring, in
New England. My genset and thruster operate hydraulically off the
main. And, I have 400 watts (peak) of Siemens solar panels mounted on
the wheelhouse to charge batteries which runs my reefer. All is well
except for the days lacking enough sun. Instead of running the main
to charge my Rolls Surrette batteries with a 190 amp alternator, I
chose the Honda 2KW unit to run up on roof for those occasions. My 80
amp charger makes the Honda work hard and loud. Thankfully, it quiets
down after the initial bulk charge. I also use it for running other
appliances like coffee maker, nuker, toaster oven. One neat
capability is that a pair of them can run in parallel with a
proprietary jumper cable, thus providing 4KW.

I've owned mine for 3 years, run it often, and have yet to replace the
plug. I also use synthetic oil, though oil changes are a bit
cumbersome. On vacation, used daily, I consumed less than 5 gal./
week. All things being equal, for about $1K USD, I think the Honda
offers a great value proposition. Even if it doesn't work out for
your application, it's a great backup unit. The only people who
don't like them are those who have to listen to them when they're
working hard.

Regards,
Capt. John

Bruce in Bangkok wrote in
:

Larry,

Could you give some detail regarding the new Honda generator
sets, one
of which that I understand you have. I believe they are DC
generators
driving an inverter.

I have two, the little EU1000i 1KW portable and the more powerful
EU3000is mounted on the back door of my service stepvan to power
my electronics shop and 2 8000 Btu air conditioners. I had the
1KW first, but got a steal on the 3KW which is a MUCH better
genset, much quieter at only 1200 RPM up to about 1800 watts
load.

You are only partly correct on the technology. The "alternator"
is a series of multiphase, high frequency coils that look just
like the stator in an outboard motor inside the flywheel of a, in
the case of the 3KW, 6.5HP 4-stroke OHC engine. Very high
frequency alternators require little "core" and, excited by rare
earth magnets embedded into the flywheel, itself, produce
tremendous high frequency power in a tiny, light package. The
output varies all over the place with load and engine speed,
which, in economy mode, is controlled by the inverter's computer
to save fuel and reduce noise under lighter loads when full power
isn't needed. Turn off economode and the engine runs at 2400 RPM
under all loads.

The 400VAC, multiphase output is fed to a set of high voltage
rectifiers and filter caps where it's THEN turned into high
voltage DC, reducing current losses and using small conductors,
not massive battery cables. The HVDC from there is fed to a
computer-controlled, electronic inverter that makes EXACTLY 60HZ
(50 Hz for the rest of the planet) at EXACTLY 115VAC (230 VAC
outside the backwards USA) so smooth and exact it's rated to
operate computers. No matter what the engine speed is, or load
up to rated output, the output of these puppies is rock solid.
Not having a direct-drive low frequency monster alternator means
the engine doesn't set the frequency of the AC
output....Efficiency goes way up! 3 gallons of petrol will power
the two AC units and my shop's power requirements for over 11
hours! The 3KW has a 3.2 gallon tank inside its quiet, insulated
cabinet. The little genset runs about 3-4 hours at 500-600 watts
on its little 4 litre plastic tankage before refilling it.
Before you buy one of the little ones, be informed they run MUCH
higher RPM to produce 1 or 2 KW from a really tiny flywheel
alternator on their little 4-stroke engines. Even in Economy
Mode, the little genset runs around 2200 to 4800 RPM, making a
much more noticable, higher frequency, audio noise...still quite
quiet but much more noticable.

Of course, being gas engines, their exhaust is very toxic to
humans sleeping in a hull, as always. The exhaust of the
EU3000is (and the new EU6500is I drool over at Northern Tool near
home) is dumped into the cooling air INSIDE the cabinet. There's
no easy way to plumb its exhaust gas alone anywhere. The little
gensets like my EU1000i has a tiny 1/2" exhaust pipe sticking out
of the cabinet! I welded a 3/4" pipe nipple over the little
1/2" metal pipe exposed. To the threaded end of the pipe nipple,
I put a 90 degree elbow that terminates in a flared copper tubing
male fitting. I can now screw onto this flange a length of
flexible stainless steel gas pipe used to connect natural gas to
a fireplace burner. I made a loop out of the gas tubing to act
as a heat exchanger, then ran the open end of the tubing through
a hole the US Air Force left in the truck when they owned it in
the deck at the rear of the truck. I work, not sleep, in the
truck so the noise of running the tiny 1KW genset is quite
tolerable....when compared to freezing to death in January trying
to fix electronics when the OAT is -5C and 0C inside the truck.
This recovers 100% of the heat coming off the little genset and a
little 110VAC fan, running off the genset, of course, blows the
heat recovered forward into the shop making it toasty warm for
almost no fuel used....with nearly a kilowatt of electric power
to run the shop to boot! The exhaust blows out the bottom and
you can hold your hand into the gas stream. It's barely warm
after I suck the heat out of it. The little genset powers the
shop in winter...the big genset powers the shop when air
conditioning is desirable.

They are very convenient, both of them, but I wouldn't want to
move the EU3000i 3KW genset as it's quite heavy with electric
start, its AGM starting battery (a little motorcycle battery) and
all. If it weren't permanently mounted on a 2000 pound angle
bracket set, I'd have wheels under it. The EU6500is is even
larger, of course, and very powerful. It has 2 cylinders, I
think. It doesn't make any more noise than the 3KW model does!
(pant - pant).

For the house, I'm powering it with a Chinese quiet-cabineted
diesel genset I bought from an auto parts place for $1600. It's
6KW and I'm running it very nicely off my soup of 20 gallons of
used frying oil from a Chinese restaurant mixed with a quart of
mineral spirits to thin it and make it more volatile....same as
my Mercedes diesel cars (73 220D and 83 300TD estate wagon).
It's cheaper to power the house with the frying oil diesel genset
than from the power company at 9.4US cents/Kwh....including lube
oil changes....but the neighbors like to sleep...(c; They won't
mind when its DARK and DEAD.


Maybe some comments regarding purchase costs, operating, etc.

The EU3000is must have 3000 hours on it, now. I bought it a
spark plug because I felt guilty, but the old one looked like the
new one so it wasn't really necessary. I keep a rough log of
hours and change its one litre of 15W40 Rotella T every 100
hours, about. I've never had a single problem. The little one
failed to start and I took it to a shop for a tuneup after,
around, 1500 hours...same oil change interval. He cleaned the
tiny carb's jets that were clogged and reassembled it. I don't
know how it got in there. The carb is a float carb small as a
weedeater's in size. Anything will clog a jet you can't even see
through! It never repeated it and cranks on the 1st pull, now,
with choke, of course.

There is a remote-start kit available for the EU3000is, and I
assume the EU6500is new one. You'll, of course, want the keyless
remote start kit from Hayes I've actually seen work:
http://www.hayesequipment.com/portab...reless_remote_
start_kit.htm
You push the button, the little computer closes the choke and
starts it, opening the choke at the correct time. Press the
button again, and it shuts down the unit....easy installation.
You won't even have to crawl out of your berth to start the tea
water boiling...(c;




I'm thinking of trying one but they seem pretty scarce over
here and
I'd hate to order one only to discover that they aren't what I
imagined.

They are much more quiet than a normal genset. They require very
little maintenance. Just change the oil is all I do. The book
wants you to disassemble it and clean the stupid spark arrestor
Honda puts into the exhaust to keep the greenies in the forest
happy. The only sparks I've seen are from a couple of shorted
drop cords...(c;

Another nice thing is the protection they have. The inverters
are VERY quick to dump dangerous loads. They'll tolerate small
overloads, like starting near-rating motors. Cranking two 8000
Btu Korean window ACs SIMULTANEOUSLY is no problem for the 3KW
model. Sometimes I get a tripout of the inverter when one of the
ACs tries to restart a pressure-locked compressor too soon. To
clear the overload and restart, you simply shut down the engine
and restart it....and you're back in action. There are also
magnetic-trip breakers in case some stupid plugs the genset into
something already hot. The engine has a great oil sensor in it.
The computer shuts down the engine if the oil level drops below
the add point and when you go to restart it lights a red oil
warning light until you correct it. It won't run on low oil.
After all these hours, it still doesn't use any oil, either one
of them. Honda's Chinese contractors make fine engines. I don't
take this statement lightly. But, at Pep Boys Auto Parts, where
I bought the diesel Chinese genset, they have two model Chinese
gas gensets with the SAME EXACT RED 11hp 3600 RPM OHC engine that
my Honda EM5000X regular genset had in it....right down to the
same castings without the HONDA logos punched into them! Honda
is buying engines from the Chinese, like everyone else. I assume
my two Honda electronic gensets are too, but have never seen a
copy. Honda's nothing special any more in this homogenized
economy.


I am presently rebuilding a power boat and will eventually need
auxiliary power and the choice is between a permanently mounted
diesel
unit and (maybe) the Honda.

I'd be worried about carrying gasoline, gas fumes, another fuel
system for the Honda, CO poisoning the diesel doesn't spew. Go
with the diesel genset...a couple of sizes bigger than you think
you need would be nice. This yellow Chinese genset is made to
ISO9001 specifications. Just because its Chinese, doesn't make
it junk. It's very heavily built...electric preheat...electric
start or manually cranked with a compression release lever. It'd
make a great sailboat engine for a 28 footer....and SIMPLE, the
kind you can fix without a computer scientist. It's also really
easy on fuel...not as easy as the Hondas and their computerized
speed management...but really easy on frying oil...(c;


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)




Larry
--
Xterm IS the ultimate video game...(c;

On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 16:48:09 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

The only people who
don't like them are those who have to listen to them when they're
working hard.

And those who are anchored or moored near them. They are an
abomination in my experience. Much better to use a high output
alternator to drive a large inverter. That's a much quieter and safer
solution.

On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 09:43:08 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:


"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
.. .

Thanks for the info. I had heard that the Hondas were a bit loud at
high power and had thought to rebuild the exhaust system to
incorporate a larger exhaust pipe and more muffling so, hopefully, it
would run quieter although only rarely do I anchor in crowded
anchorages.




What's the matter, Pop? Takes you too long to untie all those dock lines and
unplug the shore power cords and disconnect the water hoses and telephone
and cable TV? Not to mention getting all the laundry off the lifelines and
stowing all the junk that's lying all over every shelf and counter in the
accommodation? And scraping all the barnacles off the propeller and getting
the windlass working so you can get underway so you CAN anchor?

Wilbur Hubbard


Good Lord willie, what are you waffling on about now?

It is always been apparent that you suffered from delusions of
grandeur (you seemed to believe that others were interested in your
comments) but now your reading comprehensive seems to be sliding
downhill like a toboggan. Sad to say but the next phase will have you
stumbling down the road drooling and mumbling and fumbling through
garbage cans. People will cross the streets to avoid you and
ultimately the boys in the white coats will sweep you up like garbage
and spirit you away to the big house on the hill with the rubber
rooms.

Farewell poor Wilbur, we loathed him well,

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 11:13:51 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 08:55:03 -0500, jeff wrote:

They indeed have an inverter, which means the motor is variable speed.
At low load (or idle) it is very quiet and fuel efficient. I was,
however, disappointed in the noise level when run a full power. From 20
yards behind my boat, (cramped mooring field distance) it is much loader
than my Yanmar 2GM's, which means there are places I can't use it daily
without being anti-social.

I've been moored near a couple of "on deck" Hondas and they are way
too loud. You could generate at least 2KW of AC by putting a high
output alternator on each Yanmar and feeding an inverter through
battery combiners.

Here's what I'm using:

http://www.fleetsource.com/product_p/110-555jho.htm

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|328|51495|606044&id=605590

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|328|51495|985|316473&id=88467

I really don't want to sit at anchor with both main engines roaring
away. They would really be out to get me then :-)

The choice is between a smallish permanently installed diesel gen set
and the Honda with the honda being, perhaps, the simpler solution. On
the other hand I have room for the diesel set in the engine room.....
Decisions, decisions.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)