In addition to smaller boats such as the new Mac 25M, I'm also looking
at other options. There seem to be some great buys on used larger boats
in our area, and in the same price range as a new Mac 26 or lower, there
are some nice boats in the 32 to 34 foot range. I prefer a responsive,
relatively fast coastal cruiser rather than a heavy, ocean passage blue
water boat, and the Cal 34's and O'Day 34's seem to meet those
requisites. I would plan on leaving the boat with a local charter
company (chartered for daytime, bay sailing), and occasionally sailing
it myself in the Texas Gulf. In our area, there are are also some C&C's,
Catalinas, Columbia, Hunters, etc., in the same general price range, and
others, such as the Sabres, Newports, Benetau, Cheoy Lee, etc, that seem
to be more expensive.

As far as cruising speed in typical ( e.g., 15 - 20 knot) winds, under
full normal jib and main, average load, and equally experienced
captains, etc., would there be a significant difference in speed or
handling between the Cal and O'Day, both being in good condition and
similarly equipped? The (1978) Cal 34-III has a waterline of 26 ft, and
the (1983) O'Day has a 28'9" waterline, according to the spec sheets.
Plugging this into the formula (square root of wl times 1.34), I get a
predicted hull speed for the O'Day of around 7.185 knots, and 6.833
knots for the Cal. In actual practice, would this be close to what I
would see under most cruising conditions? The O'Day, at 11,500 lb., is
slightly heavier than the Cal and has a draft of 5'7", LOA 34, beam
11'3", compared with 10,200 lb., draft 4'9", LOA 33'6", and beam 9'3"
for the Cal.

Can anyone provide some comments on or comparisons of the sailing
characteristics of these two boats? It's my understanding that the Cal
may be somewhat more of a racing boat, responsive but a bit more tender,
and the O'Day may be a little stiffer but steady under heavy winds. For
example, I recall seeing over 9 knots on a 40-ft Valiant we sailed in
the Gulf in 15-20 knot winds, which I think was more than its predicted
hull speed.

Comments, suggestions, or recommendations regarding these or other
similar boats will be appreciated.

Jim

For calculation comparisons http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html

For PHRF http://www.phrfne.org/baseh.htm
with ODay 34 @ 147; Cal 34 at 167

Both are quite slow for their configurations but the ODay is much
faster overall. The Cal will accelerate better due to its lower weight
and thus be a better light wind boat.

For calculation comparisons http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html

For PHRF http://www.phrfne.org/baseh.htm
with ODay 34 @ 147; Cal 34 at 167

Both are quite slow for their configurations but the ODay is much
faster overall. The Cal will accelerate better due to its lower weight
and thus be a better light wind boat.

Jim Cate wrote:
As far as cruising speed in typical ( e.g., 15 - 20 knot) winds, under
full normal jib and main, average load, and equally experienced
captains, etc., would there be a significant difference in speed or
handling between the Cal and O'Day, both being in good condition and
similarly equipped?

To put the PHRF ratings already quoted into perspective, those numbers
are commonly equated to seconds per nautical mile. Lower is faster. So
if the O'Day rates 147 and the Cal rates 167, on very broad average
including all points of sail, the O'Day will be 20 seconds ahead for
every mile the two boats sail.

Please not that there are a lot of variables and there are conditions
where the Cal might be ahead of the O'Day, but that's what the ratings mean.


... The (1978) Cal 34-III has a waterline of 26 ft, and
the (1983) O'Day has a 28'9" waterline, according to the spec sheets.
Plugging this into the formula (square root of wl times 1.34), I get a
predicted hull speed for the O'Day of around 7.185 knots, and 6.833
knots for the Cal.

Hull speed makes more difference motoring than sailing... the one
exception is reaching in moderate wind, when the hull shape, sail
carrying power, effects of waves, helm characteristics, etc etc, are not
in play.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Jim Cate wrote:
As far as cruising speed in typical ( e.g., 15 - 20 knot) winds, under
full normal jib and main, average load, and equally experienced
captains, etc., would there be a significant difference in speed or
handling between the Cal and O'Day, both being in good condition and
similarly equipped?

To put the PHRF ratings already quoted into perspective, those numbers
are commonly equated to seconds per nautical mile. Lower is faster. So
if the O'Day rates 147 and the Cal rates 167, on very broad average
including all points of sail, the O'Day will be 20 seconds ahead for
every mile the two boats sail.

Please not that there are a lot of variables and there are conditions
where the Cal might be ahead of the O'Day, but that's what the ratings mean.


... The (1978) Cal 34-III has a waterline of 26 ft, and
the (1983) O'Day has a 28'9" waterline, according to the spec sheets.
Plugging this into the formula (square root of wl times 1.34), I get a
predicted hull speed for the O'Day of around 7.185 knots, and 6.833
knots for the Cal.

Hull speed makes more difference motoring than sailing... the one
exception is reaching in moderate wind, when the hull shape, sail
carrying power, effects of waves, helm characteristics, etc etc, are not
in play.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Thanks to all for the helpful information. I'm talking about boats in
the $20 - $30K price range, so I realize I probably won't get everything
I might like, or what I would expect from a $200K boat. Also, although
the boats seem to be in good contition, I haven't ordered surveys of any
of them so far, so don't really know what other expenses would be involved.

The draft of the Cal is listed as 4' 9", compared with 5' 7" for the
O'Day. Would this make it somewhat more tender, but perhaps faster
under light winds? More questionable for blue water cruising?

Thanks,
Jim

DSK wrote:
Jim Cate wrote:

As far as cruising speed in typical ( e.g., 15 - 20 knot) winds, under
full normal jib and main, average load, and equally experienced
captains, etc., would there be a significant difference in speed or
handling between the Cal and O'Day, both being in good condition and
similarly equipped?


To put the PHRF ratings already quoted into perspective, those numbers
are commonly equated to seconds per nautical mile. Lower is faster. So
if the O'Day rates 147 and the Cal rates 167, on very broad average
including all points of sail, the O'Day will be 20 seconds ahead for
every mile the two boats sail.

Please not that there are a lot of variables and there are conditions
where the Cal might be ahead of the O'Day, but that's what the ratings
mean.


... The (1978) Cal 34-III has a waterline of 26 ft, and the (1983)
O'Day has a 28'9" waterline, according to the spec sheets. Plugging
this into the formula (square root of wl times 1.34), I get a
predicted hull speed for the O'Day of around 7.185 knots, and 6.833
knots for the Cal.


Hull speed makes more difference motoring than sailing... the one
exception is reaching in moderate wind, when the hull shape, sail
carrying power, effects of waves, helm characteristics, etc etc, are not
in play.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Thanks to all for the helpful information. I'm talking about boats in
the $20 - $30K price range, so I realize I probably won't get everything
I might like, or what I would expect from a $200K boat. Also, although
the boats seem to be in good contition, I haven't ordered surveys of any
of them so far, so don't really know what other expenses would be involved.

The draft of the Cal is listed as 4' 9", compared with 5' 7" for the
O'Day. Would this make it somewhat more tender, but perhaps faster
under light winds? More questionable for blue water cruising?

Thanks,
Jim

DSK wrote:
Jim Cate wrote:

As far as cruising speed in typical ( e.g., 15 - 20 knot) winds, under
full normal jib and main, average load, and equally experienced
captains, etc., would there be a significant difference in speed or
handling between the Cal and O'Day, both being in good condition and
similarly equipped?


To put the PHRF ratings already quoted into perspective, those numbers
are commonly equated to seconds per nautical mile. Lower is faster. So
if the O'Day rates 147 and the Cal rates 167, on very broad average
including all points of sail, the O'Day will be 20 seconds ahead for
every mile the two boats sail.

Please not that there are a lot of variables and there are conditions
where the Cal might be ahead of the O'Day, but that's what the ratings
mean.


... The (1978) Cal 34-III has a waterline of 26 ft, and the (1983)
O'Day has a 28'9" waterline, according to the spec sheets. Plugging
this into the formula (square root of wl times 1.34), I get a
predicted hull speed for the O'Day of around 7.185 knots, and 6.833
knots for the Cal.


Hull speed makes more difference motoring than sailing... the one
exception is reaching in moderate wind, when the hull shape, sail
carrying power, effects of waves, helm characteristics, etc etc, are not
in play.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

The draft of the Cal is listed as 4' 9", compared with 5' 7" for the
O'Day. Would this make it somewhat more tender,
YES and prone to "pirouet" out of a hard-on-the-wind beat, also would
be more easilly broached. Although the VCG (vertical center of gravity)
is not listed, I certainly do a coarse roll period test on both: just
rock the boat back on forth and measure the roll oscilations per unit
time. http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html
but perhaps faster
under light winds?
YES but wont point as well as the ODay.

More questionable for blue water cruising?
Since the capsize ratio is near 2.0 on both boats, neither would be a
good blue water boat but sind the Oday has a broader beam (11.8) would
have better dynamic stability. The Cal being a shoal draft with narrow
beam would not be a good stable platform and would be more prone to
roll over/capsize in overwhelming conditions.

These are nearly identical boats (by the 'numbers') and the D/LWL value
of the Oday will make her accelerate a bit faster ... a good thing if
you sail in mostly light winds.

The draft of the Cal is listed as 4' 9", compared with 5' 7" for the
O'Day. Would this make it somewhat more tender,
YES and prone to "pirouet" out of a hard-on-the-wind beat, also would
be more easilly broached. Although the VCG (vertical center of gravity)
is not listed, I certainly do a coarse roll period test on both: just
rock the boat back on forth and measure the roll oscilations per unit
time. http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html
but perhaps faster
under light winds?
YES but wont point as well as the ODay.

More questionable for blue water cruising?
Since the capsize ratio is near 2.0 on both boats, neither would be a
good blue water boat but sind the Oday has a broader beam (11.8) would
have better dynamic stability. The Cal being a shoal draft with narrow
beam would not be a good stable platform and would be more prone to
roll over/capsize in overwhelming conditions.

These are nearly identical boats (by the 'numbers') and the D/LWL value
of the Oday will make her accelerate a bit faster ... a good thing if
you sail in mostly light winds.

The Cal being a shoal draft with narrow
beam would not be a good stable platform and would be more prone to
roll over/capsize in overwhelming conditions.


Depending on the specific sea conditions, I'd say that the Cal could ride rough
conditions better (in some cases) than the Oday. Higher beam can be a liability
in some conditions. But let's keep this in perspective: It takes pretty bad
conditions to roll either of these cruisers over.
I'd still expect the Cal to be the sturdier and more capable vessel, though I
admit this is based more on impressions than on factual elements of
construction and performance. There's a Cal 34 from the early 80s at my club
and it's build appears to be pretty good, certainly better than Oday.

RB