Stephen Trapani wrote:

a Buccaneer

Good lord! Don't touch one of those even if they pay you to take it.

Frank Maier wrote:

Stephen Trapani wrote...

Thanks to all for your replies. In case anyone is still interested in
helping further let me add: If all goes well, I'll never get out of
Puget Sound with the boat I get, so perhaps seaworthiness is not the
hugest concern? Crusing comfort for my family and liveaboardness for
weekends/week at a time are my chief concerns, I guess (two boys seven
and eight). Like, I think i want to get an inverter and a better heater
than it has (solid fuel).

I looked for all the boats recommended here by Trent and can find none
of them for sale within 500 miles, in my price range. My sailing buddy
specifically told me Newports were a better class of boat, was he
whacked? I am more interested in being able to get my money back out of
the boat in ten years or so when I move up in boats, if I put some elbow
grease and upgrades into it. Pie in the sky dreaming with this boat?

I went and looked at this '68 Newport yesterday and I like the
roominess. It needs some cleaning, the deck needs painting. The Atomic 4
looks clean. Dodger with a few years left on it. I'll check the sails
better during the sea trial/survey. I put down $635 and made an offer
($6350), contingent on survey and sea trial, so I can still get out of
it. The nearest boat I found to it so far around here was a Buccaneer
30, and supposedly those have a real bad reputation.

Thanks for any more advice!

Stephen


Hiya,

Well, on the one hand, I generally disagree with Trent. I'm not a fan
of heavy displacement "blue-water" (soi disant) boats, per se. Most of
the boats he mentions are too heavy and slow for my taste.

OTOH, I disagree with your friend about Newports. As I said in my
post, they are the worst-built production boats I've ever run across.
They make Catalina look like Nautor-Swan. If you buy it, definitely
double check that hull/deck joint. Like I also said, the design is by
C&C; so they do sail pretty well.

On the third hand, Buccaneer makes Newport look like Nautor-Swan. I'd
say, please don't buy the Bucaneer under any circumstances.

I crewed foredeck on a Newport 28 racing in the Puget Sound area back
in the early 80s and we did race that thing hard. We never managed to
sink it; so you'd probably do just fine cruising the Puget Sound area
in a Newport 30.

I wouldn't really plan on "getting my money out of it" after upgrades,
which cost a lot but don't do much to increase the "value" of your
boat. It's a nasty cheap boat and will continue to depreciate
significantly, IMHO. But, since you're getting it for a pretty good
price, I'd be willing to admit that you shouldn't lose too much on a
future sale.

I haven't checked prices in your interest range lately. Howzabout a
Ranger or a San Juan? Lots of them around the Puget Sound region.

Good luck,


Hey, thanks alot, again. Another friend of mine has been telling me
about a salvaged San Juan 26 I should look at, so I'll do that. And I'll
check the seam between the hull and the deck on the Newport. Come to
think of it there was a leak below on the rear quarterberth when I
looked at it.

Stephen

Frank Maier wrote:

Stephen Trapani wrote...

Thanks to all for your replies. In case anyone is still interested in
helping further let me add: If all goes well, I'll never get out of
Puget Sound with the boat I get, so perhaps seaworthiness is not the
hugest concern? Crusing comfort for my family and liveaboardness for
weekends/week at a time are my chief concerns, I guess (two boys seven
and eight). Like, I think i want to get an inverter and a better heater
than it has (solid fuel).

I looked for all the boats recommended here by Trent and can find none
of them for sale within 500 miles, in my price range. My sailing buddy
specifically told me Newports were a better class of boat, was he
whacked? I am more interested in being able to get my money back out of
the boat in ten years or so when I move up in boats, if I put some elbow
grease and upgrades into it. Pie in the sky dreaming with this boat?

I went and looked at this '68 Newport yesterday and I like the
roominess. It needs some cleaning, the deck needs painting. The Atomic 4
looks clean. Dodger with a few years left on it. I'll check the sails
better during the sea trial/survey. I put down $635 and made an offer
($6350), contingent on survey and sea trial, so I can still get out of
it. The nearest boat I found to it so far around here was a Buccaneer
30, and supposedly those have a real bad reputation.

Thanks for any more advice!

Stephen


Hiya,

Well, on the one hand, I generally disagree with Trent. I'm not a fan
of heavy displacement "blue-water" (soi disant) boats, per se. Most of
the boats he mentions are too heavy and slow for my taste.

OTOH, I disagree with your friend about Newports. As I said in my
post, they are the worst-built production boats I've ever run across.
They make Catalina look like Nautor-Swan. If you buy it, definitely
double check that hull/deck joint. Like I also said, the design is by
C&C; so they do sail pretty well.

On the third hand, Buccaneer makes Newport look like Nautor-Swan. I'd
say, please don't buy the Bucaneer under any circumstances.

I crewed foredeck on a Newport 28 racing in the Puget Sound area back
in the early 80s and we did race that thing hard. We never managed to
sink it; so you'd probably do just fine cruising the Puget Sound area
in a Newport 30.

I wouldn't really plan on "getting my money out of it" after upgrades,
which cost a lot but don't do much to increase the "value" of your
boat. It's a nasty cheap boat and will continue to depreciate
significantly, IMHO. But, since you're getting it for a pretty good
price, I'd be willing to admit that you shouldn't lose too much on a
future sale.

I haven't checked prices in your interest range lately. Howzabout a
Ranger or a San Juan? Lots of them around the Puget Sound region.

Good luck,


Hey, thanks alot, again. Another friend of mine has been telling me
about a salvaged San Juan 26 I should look at, so I'll do that. And I'll
check the seam between the hull and the deck on the Newport. Come to
think of it there was a leak below on the rear quarterberth when I
looked at it.

Stephen

Old boats usually cost you about 25-35% over initial cost within 2 to 3
years - one way or another. Nothing wrong with that. You "catch up" with
a smaller boat lots quicker than with a larger one, and since you're
still almost in the "small" category, you should be pretty much OK if
you shop around and get a survey. I concur with those that have said it
doesn't make much sense to worry about resale way down the road. If
you're stuck on resale, some of the older, heavier, known boats like
Pearsons 28's will probably hold value longer. And any boat that looks
like a 17 year old prom queen when you sell it will hold its value. So
it either doesn't matter, or it's up to you.

Newports are light weight boats, sail well (I've raced on them). Leaks
(from top down) can be a problem; the windows can _really_ leak (lived
on one for 6 months). I believe the Newport 30 may be one of the early
boats with the hull cored above the water and the decks cored. This
makes the boat light, quiet, insulated and strong, but spells some
potentially _bad_ problems if the core has got wet and rotted over a
period of time. They had a steering wheel option, but IMHO, that's like
putting a 6'console TV in a 10x12 room - not good.

But this is all stuff a good surveyor will find out, so here's my
standard surveyor plug: Spend lots of time talking to all the dock side
detritus (owners, harbor personel, anybody that you see actually working
on a boat) that will speak to you. Do this repeatedly at every dock and
yacht club within 50 miles or so. You'll find some good boat deals, too.
Try to find out what surveyor names come up again and again, and go talk
with a couple of them. Some will do a "mini survey" to qualify a boat
before going further. It's like lawyers and auto mechanics - they cost
too much money and the good ones can save you 50 times that amount,
easily; the bad ones are less than worthless. Do a search on "Pasco boat
survey". He has a great website about surveying; must read. "Insurance
surveys" usually aren't worth much.

The better boat you can buy, the cheaper it will be in the long run. You
try to buy the best you can while budgeting against the sure knowledge
that it'll cost you significantly a short way down the road. Thus it
_may_ make sense to reduce the grand plan down to a just good plan and
get a 22 foot day sailor in excellent shape with just the basics. Such
a boat will sell again easily within a year or two and it will make the
whole operation less daunting. 80% return for 20% (well, 50%? G) the
cost. For example, if you have a fleet of J24s racing near you and can
find one somewhere that was only sailed by a grandmother, that's your
boat. Generally speaking basics in hull, rig, engine, plumbing, and
electrics (as opposed to electronics) will return value while fancy
racing rigs, electronics, spotlights, stereos, refrigerators (they never
work) don't hold money. Small amouonts of old wood can be finished
pretty relatively easily, cushions cost a small fortune unless your wife
sews (they may still cost _you_ g). Running rigging is easy to
replace, if it's still all there; standing rigging is a project, no
matter how you cut it. If an engine runs sort of OK (get an _engine_
survey) leave it alone - you're not crossing an ocean. If it doesn't,
costs start at $1000 and end somewhere about $20k. Some boats (up to
about 30') can take an outboard off the stern; you don't need much
power, 15-20 hp is way plenty, 10hp will do fine, but you need a
_longshaft_ motor geared for slow running. If you find an otherwise fine
boat with a bad engine, this may be an option (depending on selling
price). But ask the surveyor whether this type of boat works OK with an
outboard. Besides the cost of the outboard, it will cost to install it -
get quotes. You can pull the old engine yourself and get another "room"
down there. The Pardeys put a hottub in their 30' boat under the
companion step where the engine was not.

You said you've sailed in the past, but it might be a good idea to pick
up some rides as "rail meat" with the local racing boats and get your
hand back in before you scare the living bejeesus out of your family.
You can postpone the final big buy by bringing them along to look at
select boats and otherwise getting them involved. Might get some good
input, too. Save your bippy down the road when the wife wants to know
why you didn't get one with an oven and air conditioning...

Welcom back to boats. g

Best luck. Rufus

Old boats usually cost you about 25-35% over initial cost within 2 to 3
years - one way or another. Nothing wrong with that. You "catch up" with
a smaller boat lots quicker than with a larger one, and since you're
still almost in the "small" category, you should be pretty much OK if
you shop around and get a survey. I concur with those that have said it
doesn't make much sense to worry about resale way down the road. If
you're stuck on resale, some of the older, heavier, known boats like
Pearsons 28's will probably hold value longer. And any boat that looks
like a 17 year old prom queen when you sell it will hold its value. So
it either doesn't matter, or it's up to you.

Newports are light weight boats, sail well (I've raced on them). Leaks
(from top down) can be a problem; the windows can _really_ leak (lived
on one for 6 months). I believe the Newport 30 may be one of the early
boats with the hull cored above the water and the decks cored. This
makes the boat light, quiet, insulated and strong, but spells some
potentially _bad_ problems if the core has got wet and rotted over a
period of time. They had a steering wheel option, but IMHO, that's like
putting a 6'console TV in a 10x12 room - not good.

But this is all stuff a good surveyor will find out, so here's my
standard surveyor plug: Spend lots of time talking to all the dock side
detritus (owners, harbor personel, anybody that you see actually working
on a boat) that will speak to you. Do this repeatedly at every dock and
yacht club within 50 miles or so. You'll find some good boat deals, too.
Try to find out what surveyor names come up again and again, and go talk
with a couple of them. Some will do a "mini survey" to qualify a boat
before going further. It's like lawyers and auto mechanics - they cost
too much money and the good ones can save you 50 times that amount,
easily; the bad ones are less than worthless. Do a search on "Pasco boat
survey". He has a great website about surveying; must read. "Insurance
surveys" usually aren't worth much.

The better boat you can buy, the cheaper it will be in the long run. You
try to buy the best you can while budgeting against the sure knowledge
that it'll cost you significantly a short way down the road. Thus it
_may_ make sense to reduce the grand plan down to a just good plan and
get a 22 foot day sailor in excellent shape with just the basics. Such
a boat will sell again easily within a year or two and it will make the
whole operation less daunting. 80% return for 20% (well, 50%? G) the
cost. For example, if you have a fleet of J24s racing near you and can
find one somewhere that was only sailed by a grandmother, that's your
boat. Generally speaking basics in hull, rig, engine, plumbing, and
electrics (as opposed to electronics) will return value while fancy
racing rigs, electronics, spotlights, stereos, refrigerators (they never
work) don't hold money. Small amouonts of old wood can be finished
pretty relatively easily, cushions cost a small fortune unless your wife
sews (they may still cost _you_ g). Running rigging is easy to
replace, if it's still all there; standing rigging is a project, no
matter how you cut it. If an engine runs sort of OK (get an _engine_
survey) leave it alone - you're not crossing an ocean. If it doesn't,
costs start at $1000 and end somewhere about $20k. Some boats (up to
about 30') can take an outboard off the stern; you don't need much
power, 15-20 hp is way plenty, 10hp will do fine, but you need a
_longshaft_ motor geared for slow running. If you find an otherwise fine
boat with a bad engine, this may be an option (depending on selling
price). But ask the surveyor whether this type of boat works OK with an
outboard. Besides the cost of the outboard, it will cost to install it -
get quotes. You can pull the old engine yourself and get another "room"
down there. The Pardeys put a hottub in their 30' boat under the
companion step where the engine was not.

You said you've sailed in the past, but it might be a good idea to pick
up some rides as "rail meat" with the local racing boats and get your
hand back in before you scare the living bejeesus out of your family.
You can postpone the final big buy by bringing them along to look at
select boats and otherwise getting them involved. Might get some good
input, too. Save your bippy down the road when the wife wants to know
why you didn't get one with an oven and air conditioning...

Welcom back to boats. g

Best luck. Rufus

I do not think that Newports were especially bad with respect to blistering,
though not particularly good, either. Probably about on a par with
Catalinas.

The fact that it is a '68 could mean that it would tend to have *less*
problems with blisters (as is sometimes the case with boats of this
vintage), though that is by no means certain.

As others have suggested, getting a good survey is critical. Obviously you
would check what you would look at for any boat, such as soft spots on the
deck, keel attachment, etc. etc.

--Alan Gomes


"Trent D. Sanders" wrote in message
m...
Be REALLY SURE that you get an "out of the water" survey by a good
"buyers" surveyor, especially for a Newport. Look specifically for
blisters.

When I had my boat in the boatyard there was a guy next to me doing a
bottom paint thing on his Newport 30. He found some blisters. For
blister repair you grind them out with a disk until you get to "good"
fiberglass. Then repair it.

So he started grinding. On two blisters he had to grind all the way
through the hull and enlarge them to a diameter about the size of a
basketball before he found good glass. Under the gel coat there were
big areas where the resin hadn't penetrated the glass when it was laid
up. Apparently whoever did the lay-up when it was built either wasn't
paying attention or had smoked too much dope that day. It cost this
guy over $5,000 in fiberglass repairs before he was done.

So be careful.

Trent
S/V Cimba [Islander 29']

Stephen Trapani wrote in message
...
Hi, sorry to just drop in, but I think I can get a 1968 Newport 30' for
under $7000. I grew up sailing my dad's Blanchard 33' in Kaneohe Bay,
and between the HI islands, so I can sail, probably rusty, but anyway,
assuming I get a survey and nothing terrible is wrong, the Atomic 4 is
recently rebuilt, tiller, Autohelm, decent electronics, shore power, a
few other things, any particular big reason I shouldn't buy it? And, oh
yeah, I don't have much more than that to spend. What do you think the
boat will be worth in ten years? Any guesses?

Thanks,

Stephen

I do not think that Newports were especially bad with respect to blistering,
though not particularly good, either. Probably about on a par with
Catalinas.

The fact that it is a '68 could mean that it would tend to have *less*
problems with blisters (as is sometimes the case with boats of this
vintage), though that is by no means certain.

As others have suggested, getting a good survey is critical. Obviously you
would check what you would look at for any boat, such as soft spots on the
deck, keel attachment, etc. etc.

--Alan Gomes


"Trent D. Sanders" wrote in message
m...
Be REALLY SURE that you get an "out of the water" survey by a good
"buyers" surveyor, especially for a Newport. Look specifically for
blisters.

When I had my boat in the boatyard there was a guy next to me doing a
bottom paint thing on his Newport 30. He found some blisters. For
blister repair you grind them out with a disk until you get to "good"
fiberglass. Then repair it.

So he started grinding. On two blisters he had to grind all the way
through the hull and enlarge them to a diameter about the size of a
basketball before he found good glass. Under the gel coat there were
big areas where the resin hadn't penetrated the glass when it was laid
up. Apparently whoever did the lay-up when it was built either wasn't
paying attention or had smoked too much dope that day. It cost this
guy over $5,000 in fiberglass repairs before he was done.

So be careful.

Trent
S/V Cimba [Islander 29']

Stephen Trapani wrote in message
...
Hi, sorry to just drop in, but I think I can get a 1968 Newport 30' for
under $7000. I grew up sailing my dad's Blanchard 33' in Kaneohe Bay,
and between the HI islands, so I can sail, probably rusty, but anyway,
assuming I get a survey and nothing terrible is wrong, the Atomic 4 is
recently rebuilt, tiller, Autohelm, decent electronics, shore power, a
few other things, any particular big reason I shouldn't buy it? And, oh
yeah, I don't have much more than that to spend. What do you think the
boat will be worth in ten years? Any guesses?

Thanks,

Stephen

Wasn't the Newport 30 a Gary Mull design? I could be wrong but that's how I
remember it.

I had a Newport 27, which was a C&C design. Good sailing little boat. I
would not say that the build quality was worse than a Catalina 27.

--Alan Gomes

"Frank Maier" wrote in message
om...
Stephen Trapani wrote:
Hi, sorry to just drop in, but I think I can get a 1968 Newport 30' for
under $7000. ...snip...

People always talk about This Company's boats are poorly built or That
Company's boats are poorly built; but Newports are about the worst
built boat I've run across. Check the hull/deck joint for a prime
example of bad design exacerbated by cheap construction. On the good
side, the underlying (hull) design is by C&C, so they sail pretty
well.

That's not to say that you shouldn't buy it to have fun with; but
don't plan on it being safe for a blue-water-type experience. PHRF
fun? Sure, if the survey is good.

Good luck,

Frank

Wasn't the Newport 30 a Gary Mull design? I could be wrong but that's how I
remember it.

I had a Newport 27, which was a C&C design. Good sailing little boat. I
would not say that the build quality was worse than a Catalina 27.

--Alan Gomes

"Frank Maier" wrote in message
om...
Stephen Trapani wrote:
Hi, sorry to just drop in, but I think I can get a 1968 Newport 30' for
under $7000. ...snip...

People always talk about This Company's boats are poorly built or That
Company's boats are poorly built; but Newports are about the worst
built boat I've run across. Check the hull/deck joint for a prime
example of bad design exacerbated by cheap construction. On the good
side, the underlying (hull) design is by C&C, so they sail pretty
well.

That's not to say that you shouldn't buy it to have fun with; but
don't plan on it being safe for a blue-water-type experience. PHRF
fun? Sure, if the survey is good.

Good luck,

Frank

I seriously doubt that the early Newport 30's (or any of them) had cored
hulls, above the waterline or otherwise.

--Alan Gomes

"Rufus Laggren" wrote in message
news:MOx3c.224694$uV3.946176@attbi_s51...
Old boats usually cost you about 25-35% over initial cost within 2 to 3
years - one way or another. Nothing wrong with that. You "catch up" with
a smaller boat lots quicker than with a larger one, and since you're
still almost in the "small" category, you should be pretty much OK if
you shop around and get a survey. I concur with those that have said it
doesn't make much sense to worry about resale way down the road. If
you're stuck on resale, some of the older, heavier, known boats like
Pearsons 28's will probably hold value longer. And any boat that looks
like a 17 year old prom queen when you sell it will hold its value. So
it either doesn't matter, or it's up to you.

Newports are light weight boats, sail well (I've raced on them). Leaks
(from top down) can be a problem; the windows can _really_ leak (lived
on one for 6 months). I believe the Newport 30 may be one of the early
boats with the hull cored above the water and the decks cored. This
makes the boat light, quiet, insulated and strong, but spells some
potentially _bad_ problems if the core has got wet and rotted over a
period of time. They had a steering wheel option, but IMHO, that's like
putting a 6'console TV in a 10x12 room - not good.

But this is all stuff a good surveyor will find out, so here's my
standard surveyor plug: Spend lots of time talking to all the dock side
detritus (owners, harbor personel, anybody that you see actually working
on a boat) that will speak to you. Do this repeatedly at every dock and
yacht club within 50 miles or so. You'll find some good boat deals, too.
Try to find out what surveyor names come up again and again, and go talk
with a couple of them. Some will do a "mini survey" to qualify a boat
before going further. It's like lawyers and auto mechanics - they cost
too much money and the good ones can save you 50 times that amount,
easily; the bad ones are less than worthless. Do a search on "Pasco boat
survey". He has a great website about surveying; must read. "Insurance
surveys" usually aren't worth much.

The better boat you can buy, the cheaper it will be in the long run. You
try to buy the best you can while budgeting against the sure knowledge
that it'll cost you significantly a short way down the road. Thus it
_may_ make sense to reduce the grand plan down to a just good plan and
get a 22 foot day sailor in excellent shape with just the basics. Such
a boat will sell again easily within a year or two and it will make the
whole operation less daunting. 80% return for 20% (well, 50%? G) the
cost. For example, if you have a fleet of J24s racing near you and can
find one somewhere that was only sailed by a grandmother, that's your
boat. Generally speaking basics in hull, rig, engine, plumbing, and
electrics (as opposed to electronics) will return value while fancy
racing rigs, electronics, spotlights, stereos, refrigerators (they never
work) don't hold money. Small amouonts of old wood can be finished
pretty relatively easily, cushions cost a small fortune unless your wife
sews (they may still cost _you_ g). Running rigging is easy to
replace, if it's still all there; standing rigging is a project, no
matter how you cut it. If an engine runs sort of OK (get an _engine_
survey) leave it alone - you're not crossing an ocean. If it doesn't,
costs start at $1000 and end somewhere about $20k. Some boats (up to
about 30') can take an outboard off the stern; you don't need much
power, 15-20 hp is way plenty, 10hp will do fine, but you need a
_longshaft_ motor geared for slow running. If you find an otherwise fine
boat with a bad engine, this may be an option (depending on selling
price). But ask the surveyor whether this type of boat works OK with an
outboard. Besides the cost of the outboard, it will cost to install it -
get quotes. You can pull the old engine yourself and get another "room"
down there. The Pardeys put a hottub in their 30' boat under the
companion step where the engine was not.

You said you've sailed in the past, but it might be a good idea to pick
up some rides as "rail meat" with the local racing boats and get your
hand back in before you scare the living bejeesus out of your family.
You can postpone the final big buy by bringing them along to look at
select boats and otherwise getting them involved. Might get some good
input, too. Save your bippy down the road when the wife wants to know
why you didn't get one with an oven and air conditioning...

Welcom back to boats. g

Best luck. Rufus