x-no-archive:yes


"O:P\)" wrote:

Thank you for your replies. I think I will be going with sail boat, I just
wanted to hear what others had to say about it and if there are any major
issues to consider. My reasons a

Your reasons are logical, but IMHO naive.

1.the price of the boats, I want a roomy boat, when I look at power boats,
they go for 25-50 thousand when over 25', sail boats are much less
expensive, I've seen 25-27 footers on ebay for 6-12 thousand. I'm sure that
the condition of the boat makes a huge difference in the price (like
anything else, for sure).

Sailboats are often much less roomy than power boats. I would not
have thought that anyone could consider them more roomy.

2.safety, I think that if a power boat fails to start in the middle of the
lake you are dead in the water (kind of hard to row back to shore a 25-30',
x-thousand pound boat), with the sail boat, you can always catch the wind,
no engine no problem.

I don't think you should have a sailboat using this as logic. You
should have a sailboat only if you passionately like sailing.
Otherwise, all that extra gear will be a PITA to maintain. Also it is
just a whole bunch of more things to go wrong.

3.time. I have my own enterprise and my time is kind of limited (the money
too), but I know I can make time for a boat, here and there couple of days.
So this is something else to consider for me. If I'm going to buy a boat, I
prefer to tide 15 thousand as opposed to 50 thousand on a boat that I'll use
5-6 times a year.

If you are only going to go out 5-6 times a year, I'd charter a boat
for those times, and then you won't have the maintenance. Because if
you don't spend some time every week (at the minimum) on the boat, it
will not be ready for you to go out when you are ready to go. And I'd
recommend that you start by chartering a sailboat with a crew
somewhere like the Virgin Islands so that you can see if you really
want to do the whole boating/sailing thing. It will be cheaper in the
long run.

What are you opinions? Please, I need as much info as you folks can provide
from you past experiences.

I don't want to make any more mistakes than what I have to when buying a
boat. Any good surveyors in Toronto area? Should I look for a private deal
or I'm better of with a broker? If I tell a broker that I want to spend
around 10 thousand, will he take me seriously? (his commission will be much
lower than if I'm looking to spend 250, right?)
Eventually, I would like to take the boat to Florida (Miami area), how long
should I plan for a trip like that on a sail boat?
As for sailing/boating schools, any suggestions?

There are quite a few folks who have gone from Toronto specifically
down to Florida and the Bahamas and have websites on the internet
telling their stories. I have one myself (although not from Canada)
at
http://www12.virtualtourist.com/m/4a9c6/

Another one that tells of the process of getting a boat is at
http://www.geocities.com/bill_dietrich/MyProgress.html

Some Canadian sailors
http://www.ayc.on.ca/adventure.html
http://members.rogers.com/buttimore/bhbsai.htm
http://www.alberg37.org/Cruising/Tun...eHuron2ICW.htm
http://www.searoom.com/silverheels/silverheels01.htm
http://pages.zdnet.com/ve3erj/MysticLoon/index.html
http://www.2hulls.com/archive/Boat%2...lePassage.html
http://members.aol.com/donatkdg/CS27-CounterPoint.html
http://www.wind-borne.com/journal_Index.htm

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 12:10:14 -0500, Gerry Wolfe
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 05:56:07 GMT, "O:P\)" wrote:

I am playing with the idea of a boat. I'm new to boating. What would you
folks recommend, power or sail? Do I need extra skills for sail boats? One
more question, do I need a license? and if yes, where do I get it? I'm in
Toronto.

1. Check out the basic / intro course at a local Power Squadron.
Canadian Yachting Assoc also has certification & courses from intro
thru offshore passagemaking.
2. In Toronto, you require an "operator's permit" for any motorized
boat within the downtown area (basically from Bluffer's Park to Humber
River, within a couple miles of shore). Testing is on basic
rules-of-the-road and a short practical test (back off the dock, pick
up a life-jacket, c'mon back). Marine police check pretty regularly
within the inner harbour (if you've got a powerboat especially).
3. I think you also need a Coast Guard licence. At one time, if you
had the Toronto Port Authority "operator's permit" you could also get
the CG one without further testing; maybe even vice-versa.

Depending on vessel size and engine power, you may need a Pleasure
Craft Operator's Certificate (PCOC) - any everyone will need a PCOC by
2009, so you may as well get one now - it is included in the Power
Squadron Basic course.

4. If your boat has a VHF radio (pretty well a necessity) you need a
"base station" permit and an "operator's permit".

Dunno what a "base station" permit is - in Canada we no longer require
a station license as long as we remain in Canada or the US, but we do
require an operator's certificate (Restricted Radiotelephone
Operator's Certificate(Marine)) - this is now issued through CPS.


--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI
peterbb (at) interchange.ubc.ca
new newsgroup users info : http://vancouver-webpages.com/nnq
GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 16:21:52 GMT, "O:P\)" wrote:

3.time. I have my own enterprise and my time is kind of limited (the money
too), but I know I can make time for a boat, here and there couple of days.
So this is something else to consider for me. If I'm going to buy a boat, I
prefer to tide 15 thousand as opposed to 50 thousand on a boat that I'll use
5-6 times a year.

You don't want your own boat for that little use. Join a sailing club
to learn and use club boats.


Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

Smoking in a bar is like peeing in a punchbowl.

In article rs.com, O:P\)
says...

As for sailing/boating schools, any suggestions?

Others have responded intelligently and in more detail than I have to offer for
your other questions.

I would strongly URGE you to take a course or two, and perhaps join a club for a
year to see what you like.

In Toronto, there are many clubs and groups that offer either or both power or
sail lessons.

http://www.sailing.humberc.on.ca/
My personal favorite, I have both taken courses from them, and then belonged to
their sail club for a couple of years. Best yet, courses taken are tax
deductable.

http://www.queensquayyachting.com/
These guys are downtown, in the inner harbour. More traffic to worry about, but
perhaps more convenient location.

sdg

My own opinion FWIW .... You don't necessarily need "extra" skills for
sail, versus power, as much as you need "different" skills.
For many, the skills you need for sail, are less familiar on a daily
basis than the skills you need for power, so are more easily picked up
when handling a power boat.
Many will differ with this assessment, and that's OK. because in the end
you may realize that it's going to be up to you to decides as to which
is best for you.

otn

Rosalie B. wrote in message
...

Thanks Grandma for one of the links you noted.
I took their IQ test for fun and scored a respectable number that made my
day.
Now I can show this to my 22 year old son and tell him the 'old man' isn't
as dumb as he thinks. ;-)

I'm assuming this test is reasonably accurate.....I hope! (re Tickle IQ
test)

[no experience]
... limited time...
... don't want to make mistakes...


Don't buy anything. Get some experience. Take courses at sailing clubs,
rent their boats; then offer yourself to slave and grind for a couple
racing boats. For power boats, join the Canadian version of the Coast
Guard Auxiliary - members with boats need members without boats to crew
and help to patrol and inspect and generally get out on the water.

Take the courses offered by the CG. Boating isn't brain surgery, but
then again, neither is driving, and look what happens there. Lots of
grief possible, for no good reason, so approach things with respect.

But really: If you've just got to impress the opposite sex right now,
forget the boat and take them on a white-water rafting trip. Cheaper,
safer, more exciting (on average), better food (unless you're a gourmet
cook). Or something like that.

Boat ownership is a great life, but a real costly hobby.

Rufus

Don't buy anything.

maybe, maybe not.

Get some experience.

yeah.

Take courses at sailing clubs,

nah. It is cheaper to buy an old small boat and go sailing. quicker learning
to boot.

then offer yourself to slave and grind for a couple
racing boats.

pick the back of the pack race boats. those who want to win don't want
beginners. Those who just want to be out there don't care.

Take the courses offered by the CG

nah. don't waste your money.

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 05:56:07 +0000, O:P) wrote:

I am playing with the idea of a boat. I'm new to boating. What would you folks
recommend, power or sail? Do I need extra skills for sail boats? One more
question, do I need a license? and if yes, where do I get it? I'm in Toronto.

Other people have responded with Good Stuff for your case, so I'll just comment
on sail vs power in general.

Otn is right about the "skills": 90% of the skills you need on a boat are
independant of how it's powered (ie rules of the road, docking, "weather-eye").
The impression is that sailboats are more difficult, so most people take
courses, etc. while many first-time powerboaters just get in and turn the key.
Bad Idea.

Concerning Sail vs Power, I'd separate it into 3 categories rather than 2:
Sailboats, Trawlers, and Planing powerboats. Trawlers have the most room per ft
of length, but I was in a 32ft Searay ("planing") at the Vanc. Boat Show and it
was VERY cramped for a 32-footer. I'd say sailboats tend to have more room than
planing powerboats. It's "different" room: lots of room in the cockpit for
entertaining, not much hanging-locker space.

Planing powerboats also cost a LOT of money: initially, operating, and
maintenance. You have to overhaul those big engines every 4 yrs of so. And we
won't MENTION the fuel consumption! OTOH, if you like to get to faraway places
in a hurry, or Impress the Chix, they're the way to go.

Trawlers and Sailboats are very similar in that you take your time to get
places. Trawlers tend to be steered from inside, so they are warmer and drier,
while sailboats get you more "into" nature and the elements. The line merges
quite a bit, though: pretty much all sailboats have an engine, and go almost as
fast as a trawler under power. Many sailboats have canvas to partially or fully
enclose the cockpit in inclement weather.

I looked briefly at planing powerboats, decided I couldn't live with the fuel
consumption for a boat big enough to weather Georgia Strait, then looked at
trawlers, and settled on putting a bigger engine in my sailboat. "Problem
Solved!"

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36

I looked briefly at planing powerboats, decided I couldn't live with the fuel
consumption for a boat big enough to weather Georgia Strait, then looked at
trawlers, and settled on putting a bigger engine in my sailboat. "Problem
Solved!"

(activate sense of humor here.....)

Oh, c'mon Lloyd. You considered a trawler and opted for a larger engine on your
sailboat instead? Sounds like the problem wasn't solved, merely "adjusted"!
:-)

(end of good natured jibe)


Your post does make an excellent point- there is almost as much difference
between types of powerboats as there is between powerboating and sailing. When
we motor along at 8 knots in our trawler, we have a lot more in common with a
guy motoring along at 8 knots in a sloop than with somebody slaloming through a
group of boats in an express cruiser doing 25.