This is probably a pretty newbie question, but I have found a boat I like at
a somewhat reasonable price. We are talking a 40FT boat that is 5 years old
so this is a considerable investment. In my offer, what should I be asking
for? The obvious is pending an independent survey, but are there other
things? In today's market, assuming this is an average asking price, is
coming in with an initial bid at 80% too low?

If possible, I would base my offer on the outcome of the survey ... and the
surveyor's advice based on the current market in that area ... and any other
info. For example, I almost picked up a boat that was at the time more boat
than I was looking for in a 1st boat ... it went on sale the morning I drove
into the marina at about 2/3 market value ... it was an estate sale, the
family did not want the boat, they told the marina owner just sell it. I
drove away, thought it over, came back about 2 hours later, it was sold. In
that case, there was no time to get a survey in before the buy and 66% would
have bought it. In other words, it all depends :-)




sciman wrote in message
ink.net...
This is probably a pretty newbie question, but I have found a boat I like
at
a somewhat reasonable price. We are talking a 40FT boat that is 5 years
old
so this is a considerable investment. In my offer, what should I be
asking
for? The obvious is pending an independent survey, but are there other
things? In today's market, assuming this is an average asking price, is
coming in with an initial bid at 80% too low?

As soft as the market is right now you can always offer 80% of the asking
price and see what happens, especially if the boat has been on the market
awhile. The worst that can happen is they'll say no, and you can counter.

Make the sale dependent on surveys (general AND engines) and sea trial. The
sea trial is your big "out" if you just don't like the boat. You can just
say you didn't like the way it handled, accelerated, etc. They will make the
sale contingent on your coming up with financing within X days as well
(asuming you're going to finance and not pay cash).

After the survey, you get together and work out what you thing the repairs
needed will cost, and deduct that from the price you agreed upon. Don't let
the owner make the repairs... guaranteed to mask them, cover them up, or do
the repair as cheaply as possible. You want to fix anything the surveyor
finds yourself. Good luck!

--


Keith
__
The journey of a thousand miles begins with a broken fan belt and a leaky
tire.
"sciman" wrote in message
ink.net...
This is probably a pretty newbie question, but I have found a boat I like
at
a somewhat reasonable price. We are talking a 40FT boat that is 5 years
old
so this is a considerable investment. In my offer, what should I be
asking
for? The obvious is pending an independent survey, but are there other
things? In today's market, assuming this is an average asking price, is
coming in with an initial bid at 80% too low?

On Sun, 02 May 2004 00:03:22 GMT, "sciman"
wrote:
This is probably a pretty newbie question, but I have found a boat I like at
a somewhat reasonable price. We are talking a 40FT boat that is 5 years old
so this is a considerable investment. In my offer, what should I be asking
for? The obvious is pending an independent survey, but are there other
things? In today's market, assuming this is an average asking price, is
coming in with an initial bid at 80% too low?
=========================================

80% is not too low, might even be a bit on the high side for an
initial offer. You can always increase your offer but it's difficult
to go down.

Standard procedure is to make you offer subject to survey and sea
trial, with acceptance or rejection by a certain date, usually two or
three weeks. If you are putting down a deposit with your offer, make
sure you have the ability to reject the boat for any reason and get
your deposit back.

Don't be surprised if you can buy the boat at 80% of asking. If you start
there and the owner counters then you will be higher then 80%.

Look at the boats value in the books. Look at the original price. Look at
other similar boats. Without knowing more I would probably start at some
low ball at 60% of asking. Look at the boat and get some of you buddies who
know boats to look also. A 5 year old boat should be in great condition
anything that deviates from that should be brought up as a bargaining point.
The owner either bought a new boat and/or wants to get rid of the old so he
is motivated to sell. A lot of times he will dicker some and sometimes not.
If the boat is bought out from under you don't worry another will be
available soon and remember its a buyers market.

You will need a survey for insurance. That said some surveyors do a great
job some do a poor job.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 02 May 2004 00:03:22 GMT, "sciman"
wrote:
This is probably a pretty newbie question, but I have found a boat I like
at
a somewhat reasonable price. We are talking a 40FT boat that is 5 years
old
so this is a considerable investment. In my offer, what should I be
asking
for? The obvious is pending an independent survey, but are there other
things? In today's market, assuming this is an average asking price, is
coming in with an initial bid at 80% too low?
=========================================

80% is not too low, might even be a bit on the high side for an
initial offer. You can always increase your offer but it's difficult
to go down.

Standard procedure is to make you offer subject to survey and sea
trial, with acceptance or rejection by a certain date, usually two or
three weeks. If you are putting down a deposit with your offer, make
sure you have the ability to reject the boat for any reason and get
your deposit back.

My experience is 80% is way too high. I would start at 2/3 of asking,
subject to survey and sea trial.

That is after doing a comparison of prices. If their asking seems
reasonable, START at 2/3 of that. That price, 2/3 of asking, seems to
hold for most of the boats I've bought.

Find someone knowledgeable and listen to them.

Good luck
Jim

sciman wrote:

This is probably a pretty newbie question, but I have found a boat I like at
a somewhat reasonable price. We are talking a 40FT boat that is 5 years old
so this is a considerable investment. In my offer, what should I be asking
for? The obvious is pending an independent survey, but are there other
things? In today's market, assuming this is an average asking price, is
coming in with an initial bid at 80% too low?

If you are putting down a deposit with your offer,

*******
If you want your offer to be taken seriously, or even be legally binding on the
seller, you must present some "consideration" for the seller to accept.
Otherwise, you can haul the boat (at your expense), have it surveyed (at your
expense), and if the seller gets a more attractive offer three hours before
closing he can simply junk you and your offer in favor of another. Your offer
isn't actually an offer without some consideration, and there is no compelling
reason for the seller to withdraw the vessel from active sale.

If you are using a broker, the deposit will be held in "escrow". If you're not
using a broker, see if a local marine finance company will agree to act as
escrow agent and prepare closing documents for a modest fee.

I agree that 80% it oo high to start. 2/3 offer sounds like the right place.
Another big factor in your favor is no trade-in. Remember when you buy this
boat, although you may think its yours forever, you will one day sell it or
trade it. The market is definately in the buyers favor witout a trade!
"Jim" wrote in message
ink.net...
My experience is 80% is way too high. I would start at 2/3 of asking,
subject to survey and sea trial.

That is after doing a comparison of prices. If their asking seems
reasonable, START at 2/3 of that. That price, 2/3 of asking, seems to
hold for most of the boats I've bought.

Find someone knowledgeable and listen to them.

Good luck
Jim

sciman wrote:

This is probably a pretty newbie question, but I have found a boat I
like at
a somewhat reasonable price. We are talking a 40FT boat that is 5 years
old
so this is a considerable investment. In my offer, what should I be
asking
for? The obvious is pending an independent survey, but are there other
things? In today's market, assuming this is an average asking price, is
coming in with an initial bid at 80% too low?

After having read the responses to date, I have some observations.

First is that the market may be soft on some models and hot on others. In
the case of the model we bought, it was stagnant until we got involved.
Then it got *very* hot. The only ones which are left are either *way* high,
very inaccessible geographically, or junk. Your choice of boat will
determine if the market is hot or cold and the available choices if the one
you're looking at doesn't work out.

Second is to read my post on Boat Buying Tips. If you wait until after a
survey to try to figure out what you'll pay, it will most likely be too
late.

Third is that 2/3 asking may be an insult and kill the deal - but it might
also be accepted. One of the brokers we worked with, a very knowledgeable
and long-time full-timer, indicated that the average (exceptions, of course,
abound in the tens of thousands of boat sales which occur each year) sale is
about 88-90% of asking. Our research supported that in our model, over more
than 5 years, varying only a couple of per cent from any year to the next.
OTOH, there were deals which went down in the 5 years I studied which were
66, 75, and 80%. They weren't frequent, but they happened.

Fourth is to recommend that you get sales history of that model boat for as
long as you can. If you're working through a broker, they'll have access to
"soldboats.com" - and can generate a list of all the boats brokers have
reported (that's voluntary, and not every brokerage boat sold gets reported)
as sold, which will include the asking and sales price, from January of '98.
If you're dealing with a substantial sum, it's worth calling the brokers of
the sold boats to confirm that info, as the 'ask' will be the 'ask' at the
time of sale. It won't reflect any reductions which have taken place before
that time, if there were any. Further, some of the reports will show a 100%
ask/sell. That's nearly unheard of. And finally, to that part of the
exercise, many times what gets reported is sloppily inaccurate. If it seems
unlikely, it probably is. And, of course, you can pull up all the currently
available brokerage boats by filling in the blanks on
http://tinyurl.com/d6s5, YachtWorld's advanced search page, to get an idea
of what the asking prices are for your boat around the world. If it happens
that the sample is huge (a great value to you, because you're not limited to
a few boats) you might want to limit the search a bit by only a couple of
years' range, or only a particular market.

Hope that helps :{))

L8R

Skip and Lydia

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2


"And then again, when you sit at the helm of your little ship on a
clear night, and gaze at the countless stars overhead, and realize
that you are quite alone on a great, wide sea, it is apt to occur to
you that in the general scheme of things you are merely an
insignificant speck on the surface of the ocean; and are not nearly
so important or as self-sufficient as you thought you were. Which is
an exceedingly wholesome thought, and one that may effect a
permanent change in your deportment that will be greatly appreciated
by your friends." - James S. Pitkin

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
If you are putting down a deposit with your offer,

*******
If you want your offer to be taken seriously, or even be legally binding
on the
seller, you must present some "consideration" for the seller to accept.


I am not sure what you mean by "consideration".


The typical process is for the buyer to make an offer with a deposit. The
offer may have contingencies, such as an acceptable sea trial and survey.
The offer is a contract (or at least it should be), and once the seller
signs it becomes binding. If the buyer reneges on the deal then the deposit
becomes the retribution to the seller. If the seller reneges, well, it
might take court action to settle but the buyer does have a darn good case.

Rod