Hi, A year ago, I bought a LCD TV which tunes analog and digital
channels. I first tried to use the VHF masthead whip as an antenna
with poor results, same with rabbit ears. I made a horizontal wire
loop out of a bucket lid and a twin lead to coax transformer to hang
in the rig. I noticed that when swinging at anchor, the motion of the
boat caused the digital channels to freeze or glitch with pixelation
and audio squawks. I would then switch to the analog channel and put
up with the inferior quality.

Realizing that the time was rapidly approaching when I would not be
able to continue viewing by going analog, I decided to buy an
amplified antenna to hang in the rig. I chose a winegard ms2000 omni
which has a fairly large 21 inch saucer, a 3 watt power injector, was
supposed to come with 50' of RG 6. It arrived and I installed it. It
came with RG 59 and cheap F connectors, so I didn't use that. I flew
it and the reception was not quite as good as my home made passive
loop. I changed out coax, unplugged the power injector, and
determined that the cable was good and the amp was functioning.

So, I am very dissatisfied with this unit's performance. I am looking
for suggestions as to how to improve my drop out situation while
swinging on the hook. It should be omni directional, i think. I
understand that digital's phase sensitivity to movement is much
greater than analog. Any Ideas? Not interested in servo gyro type
stuff.

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 01:59:00 -0800 (PST), Larryr
wrote in
:

Hi, A year ago, I bought a LCD TV which tunes analog and digital
channels. I first tried to use the VHF masthead whip as an antenna
with poor results, same with rabbit ears. I made a horizontal wire
loop out of a bucket lid and a twin lead to coax transformer to hang
in the rig. I noticed that when swinging at anchor, the motion of the
boat caused the digital channels to freeze or glitch with pixelation
and audio squawks. I would then switch to the analog channel and put
up with the inferior quality.

Realizing that the time was rapidly approaching when I would not be
able to continue viewing by going analog, I decided to buy an
amplified antenna to hang in the rig. I chose a winegard ms2000 omni
which has a fairly large 21 inch saucer, a 3 watt power injector, was
supposed to come with 50' of RG 6. It arrived and I installed it. It
came with RG 59 and cheap F connectors, so I didn't use that. I flew
it and the reception was not quite as good as my home made passive
loop. I changed out coax, unplugged the power injector, and
determined that the cable was good and the amp was functioning.

So, I am very dissatisfied with this unit's performance. I am looking
for suggestions as to how to improve my drop out situation while
swinging on the hook. It should be omni directional, i think. I
understand that digital's phase sensitivity to movement is much
greater than analog. Any Ideas? Not interested in servo gyro type
stuff.

Winegard MS-2000 is the best reviewed outdoor omni I know of:
http://www.summitsource.com/product_info.php?ref=1&products_id=4573

--
Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
John

Larryr wrote in news:ea1fdcdd-3aa2-4708-92c0-
:

So, I am very dissatisfied with this unit's performance. I am looking
for suggestions as to how to improve my drop out situation while
swinging on the hook. It should be omni directional, i think. I
understand that digital's phase sensitivity to movement is much
greater than analog. Any Ideas? Not interested in servo gyro type
stuff.


The lawyers at the FCC, determined to sell off as much of the public's
airwaves as possible to line their pockets, have chased most of the VHF
stations into the UHF band where multipath reflections are just
terrible.

Digital TV uses a very fast stream of data to render the high definition
pictures the public demands that flickers less than the old system, so
the data streams are very intense. You come along and get the main data
stream coming at your all-around, non-directional antenna PLUS a couple
of hundred OTHER data streams bouncing off tall buildings, mountains,
bridges, other towers, the hotel whorehouse on the beach and EVERY
airplane aluminum cloud that passes overhead landing at the airport.

The old UHF TV was almost unwatchable with all these late-arriving
reflected signals we called "ghosts". The solution was a DIRECTIONAL
antenna that only listened in ONE, very narrow, direction so it wouldn't
pick up the ghosts so bad as an omnidirectional did. The picture got
clearer and you were happy. Those days are ovah!

The computer now sees the main data stream and a bunch of weak then
strong then weak then strong secondary data streams, which in the old
days were those ghosts fading in and out to the right of the main
picture (because the sweep was left to right like reading a book). But,
now, the computer starts to receive, every so often, TWO channels with
the same picture data on them....the main stream coming in directly PLUS
another stream from the reflection off the "Honeymoon Hotel" out on the
beach sticking up. The computer has a very complex error correcting
algorithm which can detect the right stream to render....UP TO A
POINT....when the reflected stream is nearly as powerful as the main
stream. Now confused by the two strong signals it's reading
simultaneously, the computer and its algorithm become swamped, which
causes it to stop trying to render either. Your picture pixelates into
the squares the picture is made up of, finally locking or only decoding
a pixel square or two every scan. The "good" tv lock up and blank so
you can't see ATSC's dirty little secret.....it can't handle multipath
signals changing in phase too rapidly. It can't handle a moving TV at
all!

The solution is Direct TV, but I know you didn't want to hear that.

The lawyers at the FCC, determined to sell off as much of the public's
airwaves as possible to line their pockets, have chased most of the VHF
stations into the UHF band where multipath reflections are just
terrible.

Bull****. Stations use UHF because the VHF space was already crowded. They
can move back to VHF after the cut-off.

"Bill Kearney" wrote in
t:

Bull****. Stations use UHF because the VHF space was already crowded.
They can move back to VHF after the cut-off.





Either the channel space 2-6 or 7-13, probably the latter, will be in
the next round of auctions after the FCC lawyers run the licensees off
it.

Charleston TV was 2,4,5 and ETV on 7 since TV was introduced. All these
channels are on high UHF and the picture locks on my Philips UHF panel
antenna at 30' over the roof every time it rains. The picture locks
when the C-17 aluminum cloud flies anywhere near me. It's a horrible TV
system I bet the cable companies had their corrupt little hands into
foisting on us...just another nail in the over-the-air coffins.

2,4 and 5, the main network channels had good VHF coverage all the way
to Augusta, the US 601 ridgeback that goes through Orangeburg, SC, up
across the lakes to nearly Florence and Myrtle Beach. FCC has solved
that problem. They barely can make Summerville, now, on digital with a
million watts on upper UHF. Cable operators got what they wanted.....

Larry wrote:
"Bill Kearney" wrote in
t:

Bull****. Stations use UHF because the VHF space was already crowded.
They can move back to VHF after the cut-off.





Either the channel space 2-6 or 7-13, probably the latter, will be in
the next round of auctions after the FCC lawyers run the licensees off
it.

Charleston TV was 2,4,5 and ETV on 7 since TV was introduced. All these
channels are on high UHF and the picture locks on my Philips UHF panel
antenna at 30' over the roof every time it rains. The picture locks
when the C-17 aluminum cloud flies anywhere near me. It's a horrible TV
system I bet the cable companies had their corrupt little hands into
foisting on us...just another nail in the over-the-air coffins.

2,4 and 5, the main network channels had good VHF coverage all the way
to Augusta, the US 601 ridgeback that goes through Orangeburg, SC, up
across the lakes to nearly Florence and Myrtle Beach. FCC has solved
that problem. They barely can make Summerville, now, on digital with a
million watts on upper UHF. Cable operators got what they wanted.....



Happy Holidays, Larry...and I hope you have a healthy 2009

HK (from wrecked.boats, the former boating newsgroup)

Boater wrote in news:6ro0hcF2iepgU2
@mid.individual.net:

Happy Holidays, Larry...and I hope you have a healthy 2009

HK (from wrecked.boats, the former boating newsgroup)



Same to you, Harry. Long time no type! You must really be appreciating
the recent oil prices in that power boat.

Happy New Year to all!

Larry, thanks for the detailed explanation of how DTV deals with
multipath interference. While watching TV last night, I discovered
that removing the power injector from the system resulted in
significantly better digital "continuity", and less snow type noise on
VHF analog.

This makes me think that there is a problem in this particular unit.
I am tempted to open it up and see what I can see. The appeal of not
shipping it back to the online seller ( they charged $16 for UPS
ground) is quite tempting. I may screw it up, will certainly void the
warranty, but may find a mechanical problem that I can fix. I am
going to AB the winegard in passive mode and the homebrew loop to see
which is better.

The FCC's spectrum auctions are of interest to me as a live sound
engineer. Wireless mics are in a state of flux with heavy use in the
700Mhz band before the recent changes. Lots of users are very vexed
with this, but as an industry, we have very little clout compared to
cellular and broadband providers.

Larryr wrote in news:8c1cb3a9-523c-4901-b0e9-
:

The FCC's spectrum auctions are of interest to me as a live sound
engineer. Wireless mics are in a state of flux with heavy use in the
700Mhz band before the recent changes. Lots of users are very vexed
with this, but as an industry, we have very little clout compared to
cellular and broadband providers.



I work on PA systems in churches. Channel 7 TV on 174 eliminates those
mics in that band 100%. That transmitter will shut down soon, relieving
lots of problems their video sidebands have caused all these years.

Of all places, Radio Shack came out with some really nice, and cheap,
900 Mhz handheld and lapel/beltclip wireless mics that work simply
wonderful! They are all channel selectable over 8 channels on 900 Mhz.
I've never heard a single odd noise or had any reports of any odd
signals breaking their squelch. With all 8 receivers stacked under the
pulpit at the back of the auditorium, antennas helter skelter wherever
they'll fit, I can take a hand mic off the stage, down any aisle, out
the back doors into the church vestibule, out the thick front door of
this huge masonry church that seats 1100, down the 18 front steps into
the street, across the street and halfway down the neighbor's driveway
across the street from the church before the signal starts to break up!
They've got to be the hottest wireless mics under $150 I've ever seen.
The same church has another mic they paid over $600 for on the 450 Mhz
spectrum that can't go to the back of the big church without balking.
And, crazy as it is, the cheap RS mics SOUND BETTER! The handheld costs
about $80 so if someone breaks it there's not so many tears shed as with
one costing $350.

Now, if I could only teach AME preachers how NOT to put the damned 9V
transistor battery in UPSIDE DOWN with BOTH battery contacts shorting
out against the BIG METAL SPRING holding the battery in
place!....Grrrrr....(expletives deleted).

"Come fix this mic. It went dead and even a new battery didn't fix it."

"See the nice diagram I pasted to the box you store them in? Notice how
these contacts on the battery fit SO NEATLY into these two little SLOTS,
ONE BIG and one little so you can't get them in reversed? Notice how
the battery that melted has BOTH contacts shorting against the metal
clip on the OPPOSITE END from where the two slots are?!"

I try to stay calm.....They keep writing the checks.....(c;]

What do you charge for putting batteries into microphones 25 miles away?

On Dec 28, 10:26*am, Larry wrote:

Of all places, Radio Shack came out with some really nice, and cheap,
900 Mhz handheld and lapel/beltclip wireless mics that work simply
wonderful! *They are all channel selectable over 8 channels on 900 Mhz. *
I've never heard a single odd noise or had any reports of any odd
signals breaking their squelch.

I have a hard time trusting radio shack to build durability into
micronta products. After i blew up a fluke 77 looking at a microwave
(idiot move) I replaced it with a top of the line micronta DMM. The
on off switch failed within a month, after I had left the US under
sail and couldn't return it. I suspect that in the long run, even if
the RS mics sound decent, the companders are not up to real pro
standards and the durability is probably iffy at best.

Now, if I could only teach AME preachers how NOT to put the damned 9V
transistor battery in UPSIDE DOWN with BOTH battery contacts shorting
out against the BIG METAL SPRING holding the battery in
place!....Grrrrr....(expletives deleted).

"Come fix this mic. *It went dead and even a new battery didn't fix it."

"See the nice diagram I pasted to the box you store them in? *Notice how
these contacts on the battery fit SO NEATLY into these two little SLOTS,
ONE BIG and one little so you can't get them in reversed? *Notice how
the battery that melted has BOTH contacts shorting against the metal
clip on the OPPOSITE END from where the two slots are?!"

I try to stay calm.....They keep writing the checks.....(c;]

What do you charge for putting batteries into microphones 25 miles away?

The more you charge for such a service call, the more likely the users
will educate themselves to prevent future expense!!!