Geoffrey W. Schultz wrote:
snip
As far as your recommendation not to install RayMarine on boats larger
than 30 feet, I'd say that current boat builders don't agree with you.
I just spent a day wandering around the Newport Boat Show and was
looking at new boats in the 45 to 62 foot range and I was amazed at the
percentage of them that had RayMarine autopilots on them, including
boats not made in the US. I'll admit that this wasn't a scientific
study, but I did look closely at the electronics which were outfitted.


Without commenting on quality, I believe there are 3 primary reasons you
saw so many Raymarine systems. Deep discounts to OEM builders, Name
recognition and a perception of world wide support.

When you are cranking out 10 to 100 boats a year costs govern every
decision. As long as there is wide brand recognition the low dollar
wins and when your boats are going to be dispersed all over the world
having at least some level of support everywhere is important.

Also having a full line of products from one vendor helps reduce
administrative costs. When you get into more custom boats that are not
so cost driven you see a much wider variety of systems.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

I disagree completely with Glen and Larry. All of the boats that I was
looking at were $500 to $1M boats, and they weren't scrimping on
anything. My experience with higher end boat builders is that they
don't do that as their backend comissioning and support costs would be
greatly higher than the upfront costs of a better system. I've watched
builders drop supplies like a hot potato if they haev consistant quality
and/or support issues.

-- Geoff

P.S. As far as quality goes, I'd say that Yamaha builds a very high
quality product that you can get serviced (and parts) in just about any
part of the world. That definately isn't true with other manufactures.


(Larry W4CSC) wrote in
:

Same reasons you go to a small boat show and everyone's outboard is
Yamaha, lately. OEM/Dealer promos, etc. It's ALWAYS about the MONEY,
not the quality.



On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:13:42 -0400, Glenn Ashmore
wrote:



Geoffrey W. Schultz wrote:
snip
As far as your recommendation not to install RayMarine on boats
larger than 30 feet, I'd say that current boat builders don't agree
with you. I just spent a day wandering around the Newport Boat Show
and was looking at new boats in the 45 to 62 foot range and I was
amazed at the percentage of them that had RayMarine autopilots on
them, including boats not made in the US. I'll admit that this
wasn't a scientific study, but I did look closely at the electronics
which were outfitted.


Without commenting on quality, I believe there are 3 primary reasons
you saw so many Raymarine systems. Deep discounts to OEM builders,
Name recognition and a perception of world wide support.

When you are cranking out 10 to 100 boats a year costs govern every
decision. As long as there is wide brand recognition the low dollar
wins and when your boats are going to be dispersed all over the world
having at least some level of support everywhere is important.

Also having a full line of products from one vendor helps reduce
administrative costs. When you get into more custom boats that are
not so cost driven you see a much wider variety of systems.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or
lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com



Larry W4CSC

3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million
gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air
conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right?

"Geoffrey W. Schultz" wrote in message
4.17...

-- Geoff

P.S. As far as quality goes, I'd say that Yamaha builds a very high
quality product that you can get serviced (and parts) in just about any
part of the world. That definately isn't true with other manufactures.

Stick to computers Jeffy. Your expertise pursuant outboards needs
significant education.

My experience with Yamaha outboards is first-rate. Same goes with just
about everybody I've talked to in the Chesapeake area. They are VERY
reliable.

"Erik the Bold" wrote in message
...

"Geoffrey W. Schultz" wrote in message
4.17...

-- Geoff

P.S. As far as quality goes, I'd say that Yamaha builds a very high
quality product that you can get serviced (and parts) in just about any
part of the world. That definately isn't true with other manufactures.

Stick to computers Jeffy. Your expertise pursuant outboards needs
significant education.

The seatalk had no radar or chart plotter connected to it. The vessel has a
furuno Black Box 2105 radar and a Nobeltec VNS 7.0 chart plotting system
feeding only output NMEA to A/P. The reason the captain hooked all the
instruments to one port was that they were connected to separate ports and the
port that had the Control head blew out. Underway in rough seas he got in
there to "make it work" and hooked it all to one port. This worked for a few
hours then blew as well. I replaced the whole course computer. I isolated the
ST80 displays, depth and speed pods by using a separate feed of 12VDC. Only
after I feed them with 12vdc did I find the system to be loaded down. I only
hooked the Seatalk GPS, RAI and control heads to the course computer so as not
to risk another failure.

There are a lot of boats coming out with the raymarine equipment on board,
however I can tell you from direct experience after these vessels are sold they
come to companes like us to be removed and replaced with better equipment.
Then they go back to there dealer for the credit.

Raymarine has flooded the market with a lot of cheap alternatives. The dealers
have picked up on this only to provide a vessel with a "Complete Turn key
package"

Don't get me wrong I have been installing and servicing Raymarine (Ex-Raytheon)
equipment for in excess of 10 years. They are great equipment for the weekend
warrior but for serious ocean goers with any length of time at sea I would
strongly recommend against using them.

BC

On 15 Sep 2003 21:52:35 GMT, (NIFFOCBT) wrote:

The seatalk had no radar or chart plotter connected to it. The vessel has a
furuno Black Box 2105 radar and a Nobeltec VNS 7.0 chart plotting system
feeding only output NMEA to A/P. The reason the captain hooked all the
instruments to one port was that they were connected to separate ports and the
port that had the Control head blew out. Underway in rough seas he got in
there to "make it work" and hooked it all to one port. This worked for a few

I'm still seriously confused on how you "blow out", to use your words,
any NMEA ports, in or out, with 12 volts.....

Any serial port source has serious impedance in series with it. If
you short it to ground, no harm is done I've ever seen. The internal
resistance built into the devices protects it. If you hook it to
+12VDC, same effect. I suppose you could "blow out" one if you
plugged it into the AC genset or 48VDC if you really tried hard.

Overloading a serial port simply results in low output VOLTAGE due to
its current limiting impedance and it simply "doesn't work" because
the source output isn't high enough to switch the loads looking for
higher 1's voltages.

Hell, if they "blew out" from being shorted to something half the
boats I've worked on would be blown all to hell! It's just not
so.....

PS - If you're using an RS-232C serial port TX for a NMEA source, the
limit is about 15 milliamps of output current, which isn't many
loads.....dammit all.....(c;



Larry W4CSC

3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million
gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air
conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right?

I agree with Larry. Something is mis-diagnosed here & I suspect that
there was some other (undiagnosed) problem. I've shorted my SeaTalk
cables together without "blowing out" the port. It resets the system,
but that's all.

And I'm still in complete disagreement that RayMarine equipment isn't up
to "real" cruising. I've put almost 20,000 miles on my boat and have
had a few failures, but nothing major. I lost a depth transducer last
summer in what was probably a near-by lightning strike and my mast-head
unit is currently being repaired because it provides bad wind speed data
after heavy rains.

One thing that I do know is that real cruisers sit around and talk about
their problems and what works and what doesn't. RayMarine is not a
topic of discussion...

-- Geoff, who's headed to the South Pacific next year with his RayMarine
Autohelm and isn't worried.


(Larry W4CSC) wrote in
:

On 15 Sep 2003 21:52:35 GMT, (NIFFOCBT) wrote:

The seatalk had no radar or chart plotter connected to it. The vessel
has a furuno Black Box 2105 radar and a Nobeltec VNS 7.0 chart
plotting system feeding only output NMEA to A/P. The reason the
captain hooked all the instruments to one port was that they were
connected to separate ports and the port that had the Control head
blew out. Underway in rough seas he got in there to "make it work"
and hooked it all to one port. This worked for a few

I'm still seriously confused on how you "blow out", to use your words,
any NMEA ports, in or out, with 12 volts.....

Any serial port source has serious impedance in series with it. If
you short it to ground, no harm is done I've ever seen. The internal
resistance built into the devices protects it. If you hook it to
+12VDC, same effect. I suppose you could "blow out" one if you
plugged it into the AC genset or 48VDC if you really tried hard.

Overloading a serial port simply results in low output VOLTAGE due to
its current limiting impedance and it simply "doesn't work" because
the source output isn't high enough to switch the loads looking for
higher 1's voltages.

Hell, if they "blew out" from being shorted to something half the
boats I've worked on would be blown all to hell! It's just not
so.....

PS - If you're using an RS-232C serial port TX for a NMEA source, the
limit is about 15 milliamps of output current, which isn't many
loads.....dammit all.....(c;



Larry W4CSC

3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million
gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air
conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right?

"DaveH" wrote in message
...
My experience with Yamaha outboards is first-rate. Same goes with just
about everybody I've talked to in the Chesapeake area. They are VERY
reliable.


They have to be reliable, part sources are nearly non-existant in the
Mid-West. Plus being expensive compared to US based companies.

BTW - post wasn't directed at you