Michael Porter wrote in
:

Don't know about the licensing, but it's
just another VHF radio.


DSC on GMDSS is "just another VHF radio", too. But, according to the
rules not hearsay on the docks, the licensed ship must have TWO trained,
LICENSED GMDSS operators, one of which must not be encumbered to another
job in an emergency, to operate it. I suspect AIS to come under the
same sort of digital rules, once they get it sorted out. Your license-
free radio is only for use on certain channels and ONLY for voice
transmissions, not GMDSS/DSC and I suspect especially Class "A" AIS
which is a radio aid to navigation.

I still don't understand how an unlicensed pleasure boat with no GMDSS
operator or skill is allowed to use DSC, except in an emergency
situation, to call his buddies over DSC. DSC is part of GMDSS. And the
rules say:

http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/ind...b=operations_2
&id=ship_stations

"What are the requirements regarding communications personnel aboard
GMDSS ships?
The FCC requires two licensed radio operators to be aboard all GMDSS
certified ships, one of whom must be available to act as a dedicated
radio operator during a distress situation. The radio operators must be
holders of a GMDSS Radio Operator's License. The GMDSS radio operator is
an individual licensed to handle radio communications aboard ships in
compliance with the GMDSS regulations, including basic equipment and
antenna adjustments. The GMDSS radio operator need not be a radio
officer.
Another IMO Convention requires all masters and mates to hold the GMDSS
Radio Operator's License and attend a two week training course and
demonstrate competency with operation of the GMDSS equipment. These
requirements would also carry to any person employed specifically to act
as a dedicated radio operator if the ship elected to carry such a
position. "

Of course, true to form, it has to be a hodge podge of nonsense only an
advanced law firm specializing in FCC law can understand:

"Where are the GMDSS regulations contained?
The GMDSS regulations are contained in 47 C.F.R. Part 80. Most of the
GMDSS regulations are in Subpart W of Part 80, but Subpart W also cross-
references certain other FCC rules, as follows (the cross-referencing
Subpart W is listed parenthetically after the cross-referenced rule):
13.2 (80.1073(a)), 13.21 (80.1073(a)), 80.334 (80.1114), 80.335
(80.1114), 80.836 (80.1065(b)(5)(iii)), 80.933 (80.1065(b)(5)(iii))."

But, for those of you with licenses that go offshore, notice it's a SHIP
LICENSE, not a pleasure boat radio license, and the rules of part 80 are
for SHIP LICENSEES to follow. I agree it's crazy
47CFR part 80.1065(b)(5)(iii)))))))))))))) not withstanding.
Who the hell writes this ****?



--
-----
Larry

If a man goes way out into the woods all alone and says something,
is it still wrong, even though no woman hears him?

Larry wrote in news:Xns9C3BEB86FCCBDnoonehomecom@
74.209.131.13:

But, for those of you with licenses that go offshore, notice it's a SHIP
LICENSE, not a pleasure boat radio license, and the rules of part 80 are
for SHIP LICENSEES to follow. I agree it's crazy
47CFR part 80.1065(b)(5)(iii)))))))))))))) not withstanding.
Who the hell writes this ****?



http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/w...7cfr80_08.html

It's all here in your Bible....and equally difficult to read as the
Christian one, also written by a bunch of idiot bureaucrats.


--
-----
Larry

If a man goes way out into the woods all alone and says something,
is it still wrong, even though no woman hears him?

In article ,
Bruce in alaska wrote:

In article ,
Larry wrote:

"Steve Lusardi" wrote in
:

Larry,
This database is at 4 least years outdated. The Simrad model that has
the approval has been out of production for at least 4 years. My AIS ,
bought in the US, is at least 2 generations newer. Manufactured in
2007. Steve



Therein lies the big legal problem. The government bureaucrats are so far
behind the technology THEY are still posting 4-year-old data as VALID.
Panbo's website is much better up to date for millions less dollars.

I don't understand why CG and FCC can't get their act together on marine
comms/AIS/GMDSS. It all seems as if they are just baffled by anything but
the basic narrow-band FM transceivers. The local staff just looks
dumbfounded if you ask any of them, here.

Ok, Larry, I have an Inquiry in with the Maritime Rules Chief at the
FCC, but he is on vacation, till the middle of August, so I have another
Inquiry with his Stand-in, who should get back to me, in the next day or
two.... and I will get the definitive answer, for Licensing, for both
Vessel and Operator, for both classes of AIS Transponders.....

Followup.... well the guy called "Me" back, Twice now, but I was out of
the cabin both times, so we are exchanging Phone Messages.... I did learn
that "AIS is licensed to the vessel, on it's "Radio License", as
"Transponder", and therefor can NOT be fitted on a vessel that does NOT
have a valid Ship Station License". So if you want to have AIS, you MUST
license your vessel, and receive a Ship Station License.... No Blanket
Licensing allowed... I suspect, but have yet to get a firm conformation,
that AIS, as a Transponder, doesn't REQUIRE an Operators Permit or
License, as once it is programmed with the vessels IDent, Callsign, Etc,
it then just repeats that information, in a FIXED and Defined format,
therefore wouldn't need Operator Intervention, and therefor doesn't
require a Licensed Operator, like an MF/HF Radio would.

Another note, Here, it is NOT DSC, that REQUIRES a GMDSS Operators
License, It is the operation of an MF/HF Transmitter, that Requires an
Operators permit of some kind. The Class of that License or Permit will
be different for each type of vessel. Where Passenger Ships in the
telegraph days REQUIRED a 1st Class Radiotelegraph License to be Chief
Radio Operator, but a Cargo Vessel of the same size only REQUIRED a 2nd
Class Radiotelegraph License, and a smaller (300 - 1600 Ton) vessel only
REQUIRED a Marine RadioTelephone License, as they had NO Telegraph
Radio's fitted, and smaller than that (under 300 Tons) you just needed
your Lifetime Restricted RadioTelephone Permit.... I believe that the
Commission is still of the same opinion, that VHF/Radar use on vessels
that NEVER leave US Waters, can be exempted from Licensing, but if a
vessel leaves US Waters, it MUST comply with International Conventions
that REQUIRE a Ship Station License issued by the Country of FLAG. If
the Radio Station is likely to have transmitters that can effect, and
communicate with International Communications, it is REQUIRED by those
same Conventions, to be operated by a Licensed Operator who has the
appropriate Class of License, for that vessel, as determined by the
Country of Flag.

It is more about distance of communications, and effectiveness of any
unintentional interference that a Station operated by a non-Licensed
Operator could cause, and less about the information being conveyed.

Bruce in alaska

--
Bruce in alaska
add path after fast to reply

Thanks for your effort Bruce. It is good information.
Steve

"Bruce in alaska" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Bruce in alaska wrote:

In article ,
Larry wrote:

"Steve Lusardi" wrote in
:

Larry,
This database is at 4 least years outdated. The Simrad model that has
the approval has been out of production for at least 4 years. My AIS
,
bought in the US, is at least 2 generations newer. Manufactured in
2007. Steve



Therein lies the big legal problem. The government bureaucrats are so
far
behind the technology THEY are still posting 4-year-old data as VALID.
Panbo's website is much better up to date for millions less dollars.

I don't understand why CG and FCC can't get their act together on
marine
comms/AIS/GMDSS. It all seems as if they are just baffled by anything
but
the basic narrow-band FM transceivers. The local staff just looks
dumbfounded if you ask any of them, here.

Ok, Larry, I have an Inquiry in with the Maritime Rules Chief at the
FCC, but he is on vacation, till the middle of August, so I have another
Inquiry with his Stand-in, who should get back to me, in the next day or
two.... and I will get the definitive answer, for Licensing, for both
Vessel and Operator, for both classes of AIS Transponders.....

Followup.... well the guy called "Me" back, Twice now, but I was out of
the cabin both times, so we are exchanging Phone Messages.... I did learn
that "AIS is licensed to the vessel, on it's "Radio License", as
"Transponder", and therefor can NOT be fitted on a vessel that does NOT
have a valid Ship Station License". So if you want to have AIS, you MUST
license your vessel, and receive a Ship Station License.... No Blanket
Licensing allowed... I suspect, but have yet to get a firm conformation,
that AIS, as a Transponder, doesn't REQUIRE an Operators Permit or
License, as once it is programmed with the vessels IDent, Callsign, Etc,
it then just repeats that information, in a FIXED and Defined format,
therefore wouldn't need Operator Intervention, and therefor doesn't
require a Licensed Operator, like an MF/HF Radio would.

Another note, Here, it is NOT DSC, that REQUIRES a GMDSS Operators
License, It is the operation of an MF/HF Transmitter, that Requires an
Operators permit of some kind. The Class of that License or Permit will
be different for each type of vessel. Where Passenger Ships in the
telegraph days REQUIRED a 1st Class Radiotelegraph License to be Chief
Radio Operator, but a Cargo Vessel of the same size only REQUIRED a 2nd
Class Radiotelegraph License, and a smaller (300 - 1600 Ton) vessel only
REQUIRED a Marine RadioTelephone License, as they had NO Telegraph
Radio's fitted, and smaller than that (under 300 Tons) you just needed
your Lifetime Restricted RadioTelephone Permit.... I believe that the
Commission is still of the same opinion, that VHF/Radar use on vessels
that NEVER leave US Waters, can be exempted from Licensing, but if a
vessel leaves US Waters, it MUST comply with International Conventions
that REQUIRE a Ship Station License issued by the Country of FLAG. If
the Radio Station is likely to have transmitters that can effect, and
communicate with International Communications, it is REQUIRED by those
same Conventions, to be operated by a Licensed Operator who has the
appropriate Class of License, for that vessel, as determined by the
Country of Flag.

It is more about distance of communications, and effectiveness of any
unintentional interference that a Station operated by a non-Licensed
Operator could cause, and less about the information being conveyed.

Bruce in alaska

--
Bruce in alaska
add path after fast to reply

Bruce in alaska wrote in
:

Followup.... well the guy called "Me" back, Twice now, but I was out
of the cabin both times, so we are exchanging Phone Messages.... I did
learn that "AIS is licensed to the vessel, on it's "Radio License", as
"Transponder", and therefor can NOT be fitted on a vessel that does
NOT have a valid Ship Station License". So if you want to have AIS,
you MUST license your vessel, and receive a Ship Station License....
No Blanket Licensing allowed... I suspect, but have yet to get a firm
conformation, that AIS, as a Transponder, doesn't REQUIRE an Operators
Permit or License, as once it is programmed with the vessels IDent,
Callsign, Etc, it then just repeats that information, in a FIXED and
Defined format, therefore wouldn't need Operator Intervention, and
therefor doesn't require a Licensed Operator, like an MF/HF Radio
would.

But, each time you sail, the operator must program into AIS the
destination, ETA, current draft, etc, that does change on each leg of a
voyage. That would, I'm guessing, require a GMDSS Operator's License to
program, which is about half the AIS message format.

Well, we DID answer the pressing question that NO, casual sailboaters
will NOT just plug in an AIS to their GPS and antenna and go blindly
around transmitting on AIS to anyone who listens with no license or
training like they do VHF FM voice. It's not a plug n play device.


Another note, Here, it is NOT DSC, that REQUIRES a GMDSS Operators
License, It is the operation of an MF/HF Transmitter, that Requires an
Operators permit of some kind. The Class of that License or Permit
will be different for each type of vessel. Where Passenger Ships in
the telegraph days REQUIRED a 1st Class Radiotelegraph License to be
Chief Radio Operator, but a Cargo Vessel of the same size only
REQUIRED a 2nd Class Radiotelegraph License, and a smaller (300 - 1600
Ton) vessel only REQUIRED a Marine RadioTelephone License, as they had
NO Telegraph Radio's fitted, and smaller than that (under 300 Tons)
you just needed your Lifetime Restricted RadioTelephone Permit.... I
believe that the Commission is still of the same opinion, that
VHF/Radar use on vessels that NEVER leave US Waters, can be exempted
from Licensing, but if a vessel leaves US Waters, it MUST comply with
International Conventions that REQUIRE a Ship Station License issued
by the Country of FLAG. If the Radio Station is likely to have
transmitters that can effect, and communicate with International
Communications, it is REQUIRED by those same Conventions, to be
operated by a Licensed Operator who has the appropriate Class of
License, for that vessel, as determined by the Country of Flag.

In the question of AIS, unlicensed operators and boats won't be
transmitting on AIS unless they get licensed. I can see a LOT of NALs
going out to unlicensed stations over this from this information. It is
illegal to transmit on AIS without a "transponder-endorsed" ship
license. That makes sense, really, as the ship's FCC callsign is one of
the message's variables. It'll be easy to police. FCC monitors simply
look for valid callsigns on AIS and bust anyone without them. "Her
Orgasm" is not a valid callsign...(c;]


It is more about distance of communications, and effectiveness of any
unintentional interference that a Station operated by a non-Licensed
Operator could cause, and less about the information being conveyed.

Bruce in alaska


It'll be interesting to see what they say about the OPERATOR's license
required to operate both A and B AIS on there properly-licensed and
installed boats. Boaters are in for a shock.

If you do get to talk to him, please ask my age-old question, which
license is required to transmit NON EMERGENCY DSC calls on VHF? Is it
legal for a NON-licensed boat with unlicensed operators to operate non-
emergency DSC on VHF, which is DATA or TRANSPONDER...not voice? Reading
Part 80:
http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/w...7cfr80_00.html
80.151 is WAY behind in begin upgraded. It only has GROL other than the
old telegraph licenses on it. GMDSS operator licenses aren't even
mentioned! It's crazy the way they've left it. It makes no sense at
all.

Now, Let's discuss GMDSS Restricted Operator (RG class), less than 20
miles offsho
http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/index.htm?job=rg
"The exam consists of questions from the following categories: general
information, VHF digital selective calling, and carriage requirement. To
pass, an examinee must correctly answer at least 38 out of 50
questions."
This is the GMDSS VHF OPERATOR's license....VHF DSC! That's what it's
for! No boaters I know have one....

Going further than 20 miles offshore with DSC?
http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/index.htm?job=do
Then you need a GMDSS Operator's License (DO class), which is all DSC,
HF and VHF. This is the operator's license for DSC equipped Ship
Stations going offshore to foreign ports....like the Bahamas.

Now, let's look what it says about Restricted RADIOTELEPHONE Operator's
Permit, the one all the boaters just write off for and get to operate
Ship RADIOTELEPHONE stations:
http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/index.htm?job=rr
If you read the now-long list of things you can operate WITHOUT the RR-
class Restricted license, most boaters who don't go overseas or have HF
aboard don't need them. If they operate HF RADIOTELEPHONES, or go
offshore, of course, they do.

Find ANY reference to operating DSC, whatsoever, under this license.
There is none because this is a RADIOTELEPHONE license....VOICE and
plug-n-play radars that have no tuning ONLY.....No AIS, No GMDSS, NO DSC
on any band either!

Pressing the DSC button when the boat is sinking, of course, in a
distress, is legal without any license at all....just a Boat/US MMSI and
a GPS input that works is fine. CALLING "HER ORGASM" ON DSC WITHOUT A
PROPER GMDSS RESTRICTED OPERATOR LICENSE IS NOT! That's what it
says....

Please ask the FCC guys for clarification on this matter. Part 80
doesn't even discuss this, it's still written for 1969 boats with
Raytheon tube radios on them.....or RCA CW transmitters using 813s.



--
-----
Larry

If a man goes way out into the woods all alone and says something,
is it still wrong, even though no woman hears him?

Thanks Larry, good research, but this now opens another pandora's box. If
you have a Ships Station license and your equipment is all IMO approved
equipment, even though your vessel size does not require IMO/SOLAS
compliance, will I now be subject to the periodic inspection and
recertification rules these compliances demand? My gut feeling is yes.
Steve

"Larry" wrote in message
...
Bruce in alaska wrote in
:

Followup.... well the guy called "Me" back, Twice now, but I was out
of the cabin both times, so we are exchanging Phone Messages.... I did
learn that "AIS is licensed to the vessel, on it's "Radio License", as
"Transponder", and therefor can NOT be fitted on a vessel that does
NOT have a valid Ship Station License". So if you want to have AIS,
you MUST license your vessel, and receive a Ship Station License....
No Blanket Licensing allowed... I suspect, but have yet to get a firm
conformation, that AIS, as a Transponder, doesn't REQUIRE an Operators
Permit or License, as once it is programmed with the vessels IDent,
Callsign, Etc, it then just repeats that information, in a FIXED and
Defined format, therefore wouldn't need Operator Intervention, and
therefor doesn't require a Licensed Operator, like an MF/HF Radio
would.

But, each time you sail, the operator must program into AIS the
destination, ETA, current draft, etc, that does change on each leg of a
voyage. That would, I'm guessing, require a GMDSS Operator's License to
program, which is about half the AIS message format.

Well, we DID answer the pressing question that NO, casual sailboaters
will NOT just plug in an AIS to their GPS and antenna and go blindly
around transmitting on AIS to anyone who listens with no license or
training like they do VHF FM voice. It's not a plug n play device.


Another note, Here, it is NOT DSC, that REQUIRES a GMDSS Operators
License, It is the operation of an MF/HF Transmitter, that Requires an
Operators permit of some kind. The Class of that License or Permit
will be different for each type of vessel. Where Passenger Ships in
the telegraph days REQUIRED a 1st Class Radiotelegraph License to be
Chief Radio Operator, but a Cargo Vessel of the same size only
REQUIRED a 2nd Class Radiotelegraph License, and a smaller (300 - 1600
Ton) vessel only REQUIRED a Marine RadioTelephone License, as they had
NO Telegraph Radio's fitted, and smaller than that (under 300 Tons)
you just needed your Lifetime Restricted RadioTelephone Permit.... I
believe that the Commission is still of the same opinion, that
VHF/Radar use on vessels that NEVER leave US Waters, can be exempted
from Licensing, but if a vessel leaves US Waters, it MUST comply with
International Conventions that REQUIRE a Ship Station License issued
by the Country of FLAG. If the Radio Station is likely to have
transmitters that can effect, and communicate with International
Communications, it is REQUIRED by those same Conventions, to be
operated by a Licensed Operator who has the appropriate Class of
License, for that vessel, as determined by the Country of Flag.

In the question of AIS, unlicensed operators and boats won't be
transmitting on AIS unless they get licensed. I can see a LOT of NALs
going out to unlicensed stations over this from this information. It is
illegal to transmit on AIS without a "transponder-endorsed" ship
license. That makes sense, really, as the ship's FCC callsign is one of
the message's variables. It'll be easy to police. FCC monitors simply
look for valid callsigns on AIS and bust anyone without them. "Her
Orgasm" is not a valid callsign...(c;]


It is more about distance of communications, and effectiveness of any
unintentional interference that a Station operated by a non-Licensed
Operator could cause, and less about the information being conveyed.

Bruce in alaska


It'll be interesting to see what they say about the OPERATOR's license
required to operate both A and B AIS on there properly-licensed and
installed boats. Boaters are in for a shock.

If you do get to talk to him, please ask my age-old question, which
license is required to transmit NON EMERGENCY DSC calls on VHF? Is it
legal for a NON-licensed boat with unlicensed operators to operate non-
emergency DSC on VHF, which is DATA or TRANSPONDER...not voice? Reading
Part 80:
http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/w...7cfr80_00.html
80.151 is WAY behind in begin upgraded. It only has GROL other than the
old telegraph licenses on it. GMDSS operator licenses aren't even
mentioned! It's crazy the way they've left it. It makes no sense at
all.

Now, Let's discuss GMDSS Restricted Operator (RG class), less than 20
miles offsho
http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/index.htm?job=rg
"The exam consists of questions from the following categories: general
information, VHF digital selective calling, and carriage requirement. To
pass, an examinee must correctly answer at least 38 out of 50
questions."
This is the GMDSS VHF OPERATOR's license....VHF DSC! That's what it's
for! No boaters I know have one....

Going further than 20 miles offshore with DSC?
http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/index.htm?job=do
Then you need a GMDSS Operator's License (DO class), which is all DSC,
HF and VHF. This is the operator's license for DSC equipped Ship
Stations going offshore to foreign ports....like the Bahamas.

Now, let's look what it says about Restricted RADIOTELEPHONE Operator's
Permit, the one all the boaters just write off for and get to operate
Ship RADIOTELEPHONE stations:
http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/index.htm?job=rr
If you read the now-long list of things you can operate WITHOUT the RR-
class Restricted license, most boaters who don't go overseas or have HF
aboard don't need them. If they operate HF RADIOTELEPHONES, or go
offshore, of course, they do.

Find ANY reference to operating DSC, whatsoever, under this license.
There is none because this is a RADIOTELEPHONE license....VOICE and
plug-n-play radars that have no tuning ONLY.....No AIS, No GMDSS, NO DSC
on any band either!

Pressing the DSC button when the boat is sinking, of course, in a
distress, is legal without any license at all....just a Boat/US MMSI and
a GPS input that works is fine. CALLING "HER ORGASM" ON DSC WITHOUT A
PROPER GMDSS RESTRICTED OPERATOR LICENSE IS NOT! That's what it
says....

Please ask the FCC guys for clarification on this matter. Part 80
doesn't even discuss this, it's still written for 1969 boats with
Raytheon tube radios on them.....or RCA CW transmitters using 813s.



--
-----
Larry

If a man goes way out into the woods all alone and says something,
is it still wrong, even though no woman hears him?

That's a big leap John. You will need a Ship Station license if you sail
internationally period and AIS has nothing to do with it. Your statement is
correct only if you sail within US waters. If you have to have a Ships
Station license, what difference does it make with either class A or B?
Steve

"John Navas" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 04 Jul 2009 23:59:28 +0000, Larry wrote in
:

Bruce in alaska wrote in
:

Followup.... well the guy called "Me" back, Twice now, but I was out
of the cabin both times, so we are exchanging Phone Messages.... I did
learn that "AIS is licensed to the vessel, on it's "Radio License", as
"Transponder", and therefor can NOT be fitted on a vessel that does
NOT have a valid Ship Station License". So if you want to have AIS,
you MUST license your vessel, and receive a Ship Station License....
No Blanket Licensing allowed... I suspect, but have yet to get a firm
conformation, that AIS, as a Transponder, doesn't REQUIRE an Operators
Permit or License, as once it is programmed with the vessels IDent,
Callsign, Etc, it then just repeats that information, in a FIXED and
Defined format, therefore wouldn't need Operator Intervention, and
therefor doesn't require a Licensed Operator, like an MF/HF Radio
would.

But, each time you sail, the operator must program into AIS the
destination, ETA, current draft, etc, that does change on each leg of a
voyage. That would, I'm guessing, require a GMDSS Operator's License to
program, which is about half the AIS message format.

Not required for AIS Class B.

Well, we DID answer the pressing question that NO, casual sailboaters
will NOT just plug in an AIS to their GPS and antenna and go blindly
around transmitting on AIS to anyone who listens with no license or
training like they do VHF FM voice. It's not a plug n play device.

AIS Class B is essentially play and play.

Definitive AIS information:
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/enav/ais/

--
Best regards,
John Navas, publisher of Navas' Sailing & Racing in
the San Francisco Bay Area http://sail.navas.us/

In article ,
"Steve Lusardi" wrote:

Thanks Larry, good research, but this now opens another pandora's box. If
you have a Ships Station license and your equipment is all IMO approved
equipment, even though your vessel size does not require IMO/SOLAS
compliance, will I now be subject to the periodic inspection and
recertification rules these compliances demand? My gut feeling is yes.
Steve

Ok, Here is the "Straight from the HORSE's Mouth, No ****, Poop" on
licensing AIS in the USA. I talked to the Wireless Rules Guy, himself...
AND.... Wait for it..... to be very frank, the term "Dufus" comes to
mind.

Larry is certainly CORRECT... someone back in FCC DC HQ is thinking like
a Bureaucrat, and not an Engineer, or Regulator....

1. AIS "IS" Covered by the Blanket US Waters Only VHF Marine License....
so it MAY be fitted to any US Vessel, with or WITHOUT a Ship Station
License.
a. MMSI would be issued by Boats USA or one of the civilian MMSI
Registrars.

b. Callsign can be either, some Old Callsign that the vessel had
previously, OR, something you MAKE UP, yourself.... No ****... that is
what Mr. FCC said....

2. As a Transponder, it requires NO Operators License, the same as a
Marine SART. for Radar.

3. This is for ALL AIS Transponders, of Either Class, fitted aboard a US
Flagged, Documented, non-Documented, or State Registered or unregistered
Vessel.

I really can't believe, that this, is how it it is, BUT THAT IS, "WHAT
the Guy SAID".....

SO, untill things change, That is the State of AIS, in the USofA....

--
Bruce in alaska
add path after fast to reply

"Steve Lusardi" wrote in
:

Thanks Larry, good research, but this now opens another pandora's box.
If you have a Ships Station license and your equipment is all IMO
approved equipment, even though your vessel size does not require
IMO/SOLAS compliance, will I now be subject to the periodic inspection
and recertification rules these compliances demand? My gut feeling is
yes. Steve


Don't think they'll have anything to do with pleasure craft inspection,
as a practical matter, not by law. Anything that requires WORK they'll
shy away from. My concern was only because boaters take way too casual
a view about radio LICENSING than is healthy, especially in this
paranoia over "homeland security". They think that just because they
don't have to have a license to operate a VHF FM or an automated radar,
that allows them to operate anything else the radio sales dream teams
have to offer, and that's simply not true.

The FCC regs seem quite clear on GMDSS/DSC operation. They have special
licenses AND TRAINING to use them that's required for their proper
operation, not just plug n play on S/V "Her Orgasm" at the whim of
Captain Clegg. I merely wanted to know from someone with FCC
connections what was proper to keep people from getting FCC and CG
nastygrams, which can be very unsettling, even for the rich, when they
start talking about $10,000/DAY!

Noone wants to inspect. But they DO want pleasure boats off these
commercial-in-mind systems. Everyone, of course, except the equipment
manufacturers, who would install one in every Volkswagen if they thought
they could sell it.



--
-----
Larry

Noone will be safe until the last lawyer has been strangled by the
entrails of the last cleric.

Bruce in alaska wrote in
:

In article ,
"Steve Lusardi" wrote:

Thanks Larry, good research, but this now opens another pandora's
box. If you have a Ships Station license and your equipment is all
IMO approved equipment, even though your vessel size does not require
IMO/SOLAS compliance, will I now be subject to the periodic
inspection and recertification rules these compliances demand? My gut
feeling is yes. Steve

Ok, Here is the "Straight from the HORSE's Mouth, No ****, Poop" on
licensing AIS in the USA. I talked to the Wireless Rules Guy,
himself... AND.... Wait for it..... to be very frank, the term "Dufus"
comes to mind.

Larry is certainly CORRECT... someone back in FCC DC HQ is thinking
like a Bureaucrat, and not an Engineer, or Regulator....

1. AIS "IS" Covered by the Blanket US Waters Only VHF Marine
License.... so it MAY be fitted to any US Vessel, with or WITHOUT a
Ship Station License.
a. MMSI would be issued by Boats USA or one of the civilian MMSI
Registrars.

b. Callsign can be either, some Old Callsign that the vessel had
previously, OR, something you MAKE UP, yourself.... No ****... that is
what Mr. FCC said....

2. As a Transponder, it requires NO Operators License, the same as a
Marine SART. for Radar.

3. This is for ALL AIS Transponders, of Either Class, fitted aboard a
US Flagged, Documented, non-Documented, or State Registered or
unregistered Vessel.

I really can't believe, that this, is how it it is, BUT THAT IS, "WHAT
the Guy SAID".....

SO, untill things change, That is the State of AIS, in the USofA....


Good grief. Things at FCC have rotted much further away than I thought.

Ok, I'll just stand back and let them all have at it. Has this guy got
a name and number we can reference when the NALs are delivered to the PO
Boxes? "Yes, but Mr Rogers said.............and that's what we've been
operating under, his official statements, seeing as how the rules and
websites are so screwed up and unreadable." That might be helpful to
someone who's staring that NAL in the face requiring a reply "or else".

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Larry

Noone will be safe until the last lawyer has been strangled by the
entrails of the last cleric.