On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 21:07:51 GMT, "Glen Wiley Wilson"
wrote:

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 06:51:37 -0500, Glenn Ashmore
tempted fate with:

Cover the nav station top with 1/2" aluminum plate for a heat sink? :-)

Now that is a MANLY solution. Makes me embarrassed I ever offered up
my girly plastic trivet idea. (-;

I've always liked "Manly Solutions".......

http://www.totallygross.com/

"The only Manly way to make a girly drink."



Larry W4CSC

"Very funny, Scotty! Now, BEAM ME MY CLOTHES! KIRK OUT!"

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 00:17:45 GMT, (Larry W4CSC)
tempted fate with:

Aha....Here we have a common interest!......

I'm toying with the idea of creating a WIRELESS network aboard the
boat (802.11b, probably). Integration to the NMEA network will be via
a converter, such as:
http://www.bb-elec.com/product.asp?s...ltsku=ethernet

This type of device should work well. An issue I have with this
approach is that the device requires drivers. I hate installing
drivers. They either work or they don't, and if something breaks,
you're never quite sure what it was. You have to make sure to keep up
with them just in case you find yourself rebuilding a crashed
harddrive or Windows falls on its sword or something. Plus, you never
know when the latest Windows service pack is going to break the
driver. It happens more often than one might think. Also, since I
have an obvious bias toward programmability, this approach is a little
hard-wired for my taste.

My approach is to use the existing tcp/ip stack. I take all the data
I get from serial ports and virtual serial ports and do a UDP
broadcast. This automatically goes to anybody on the subnet that
wants to listen on the right port. So you can add any listener
anytime you want by the expedient of plugging in a cat5 or a wireless
card. Any PC running anywhere on the subnet with my program on it can
receive the data, add it to whatever is coming in over the local
serial ports, display, it, log it, and ship it out over a serial port
or virtual port to any device or program not-network-aware. But I do
still need some NMEA wiring to get the data to the computer. Note
that my license covers as many copies as you want to run on one boat.
I probably need to change that if that cruise ship contract comes
in...

I've actually been doing a little work on this feature this week.
This version is not on the site yet, but I've added the capability to
talk to a specific address instead of broadcasting. This let's you
get off the subnet if you want to. Theoretically, you could even ship
your data over the internet to your home PC. I've added it because a
couple of prospects think they can use it for remote tracking. There
are some more improvements too, but they are fairly subtle.

It's not "boat programs" so it's GPL freeware....(c;

Hey, I represent that stattement!

__________________________________________________ __________
Glen "Wiley" Wilson usenet1 SPAMNIX at worldwidewiley dot com
To reply, lose the capitals and do the obvious.

Take a look at cpRepeater, my NMEA data integrator, repeater, and
logger at http://www.worldwidewiley.com/

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 02:48:54 GMT, "Glen Wiley Wilson"
wrote:


This type of device should work well. An issue I have with this
approach is that the device requires drivers. I hate installing
drivers. They either work or they don't, and if something breaks,
you're never quite sure what it was. You have to make sure to keep up
with them just in case you find yourself rebuilding a crashed
harddrive or Windows falls on its sword or something. Plus, you never
know when the latest Windows service pack is going to break the
driver. It happens more often than one might think. Also, since I
have an obvious bias toward programmability, this approach is a little
hard-wired for my taste.

As these computers would not be used for online internet, except maybe
at the dock to get the weather report before leaving, you don't need
the service packs. The solution to the Windows problem is Win98SE,
which has matured very nicely compliments of business and industry who
like its more stable platform. Many of XPs maladies, of course,
simply don't exist in W98SE because it's not NT-based or NT-complex.
Having no need to share files, printers, and databases, there's no
need to run an NT-based O/S, with its inherent problems that have
never been resolved. Win98SE runs for months without being rebooted,
even though it is heavily used on my network, here. It has many
drivers that will not run under XP, a re-designed system hell bent on
everyone buying new buggy software from the original vendors. Screw
all that. 98SE runs good ol' Windoze programs from anywhere.

My approach is to use the existing tcp/ip stack. I take all the data
I get from serial ports and virtual serial ports and do a UDP
broadcast. This automatically goes to anybody on the subnet that
wants to listen on the right port. So you can add any listener
anytime you want by the expedient of plugging in a cat5 or a wireless
card. Any PC running anywhere on the subnet with my program on it can
receive the data, add it to whatever is coming in over the local
serial ports, display, it, log it, and ship it out over a serial port
or virtual port to any device or program not-network-aware. But I do
still need some NMEA wiring to get the data to the computer. Note
that my license covers as many copies as you want to run on one boat.
I probably need to change that if that cruise ship contract comes
in...

I've actually been doing a little work on this feature this week.
This version is not on the site yet, but I've added the capability to
talk to a specific address instead of broadcasting. This let's you
get off the subnet if you want to. Theoretically, you could even ship
your data over the internet to your home PC. I've added it because a
couple of prospects think they can use it for remote tracking. There
are some more improvements too, but they are fairly subtle.

Very nice.

It's not "boat programs" so it's GPL freeware....(c;

Hey, I represent that stattement!

Wanna bet you'll make more money off it at $29?......simply blowing
away the greedy competitors......

I know someone who wrote a shareware program and posted it to
tucows.com and the other shareware vendors. His income tripled when
he dropped the price below $30.....

The boaters with unlimited funds don't buy shareware, they hire
consultants who make commissions off vast software prices.
Consultants never recommend shareware they are not going to get paid
extra from. Boaters with small incomes will use shareware but sneeze
around $30 and won't send in the money unless you put in a 30-day
timer to force them. They'll think, "Other shareware is $30. Why is
this guy charging so much, just because it's a boat program?" They'll
send PayPal $30 for it and feel great. Think about it. Your program
isn't going to be on the bridge of that 160' Italian custom yacht.....


_________________________________________________ ___________
Glen "Wiley" Wilson usenet1 SPAMNIX at worldwidewiley dot com
To reply, lose the capitals and do the obvious.

Take a look at cpRepeater, my NMEA data integrator, repeater, and
logger at http://www.worldwidewiley.com/


Larry W4CSC

"Very funny, Scotty! Now, BEAM ME MY CLOTHES! KIRK OUT!"

Then, of course, there's always this:

http://www.boatblender.com/

Joe Wood

Larry W4CSC wrote:

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 21:07:51 GMT, "Glen Wiley Wilson"
wrote:


On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 06:51:37 -0500, Glenn Ashmore
tempted fate with:

Cover the nav station top with 1/2" aluminum plate for a heat sink? :-)

Now that is a MANLY solution. Makes me embarrassed I ever offered up
my girly plastic trivet idea. (-;


I've always liked "Manly Solutions".......

http://www.totallygross.com/

"The only Manly way to make a girly drink."



Larry W4CSC

"Very funny, Scotty! Now, BEAM ME MY CLOTHES! KIRK OUT!"

Larry W4CSC wrote:

I've always liked "Manly Solutions".......

http://www.totallygross.com/

"The only Manly way to make a girly drink."

Just packed my red pants, my Tailgator and half a case of Tequilla.
Headed out for the World's largest outdoor cocktail party Tomorrow
night! :-)

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Joe Wood wrote:

Then, of course, there's always this:

http://www.boatblender.com/

That might be OK for cocktails on the boat but it would get laughed
out of the parking lot at the Georgia/Florida game. Last year we made
about 300 Margaritas with the Tailgator in four hours. Had to name a
couple of designated walkers to get some of the crew into the stadium. :-)

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 12:37:30 GMT, (Larry W4CSC)
tempted fate with:

They'll think, "Other shareware is $30. Why is
this guy charging so much, just because it's a boat program?" They'll
send PayPal $30 for it and feel great. Think about it. Your program
isn't going to be on the bridge of that 160' Italian custom yacht.....

Sigh. I wonder if anyone anywhere ever made any product that someone
somewhere didn't say was too expensive. :-} I do appreciate the
input, though. It's always good to hear what people think. I know
you aren't necessarily speaking for yourself in this, or even about my
program specifically, but for the stereotypical "cheap boater" (like
me), so let me respond as if to that guy, not you.

cpRepeater is not $75 because it's "boat stuff". It's $75 because it
does some rather difficult things easily and efficiently. Some of
which nobody else is doing, some of which people are doing for a much
higher price.

I won't go into the market studies I did on the competition's pricing,
or the number of people that I had evaluate the product to tell me
what they thought it was worth. I'll just say you might be right
about that guy. The one thing I know for sure from spending the last
30 years in the computer business as a corporate wage slave is that
pricing is witchcraft.

But since you raised the subject, and now anyone who reads this thread
will decide to wait and see whether I drop the price before
registering, I will say right now, it won't happen.

This is all I'm ever going to say about it here, because the
discussion verges on commercial activity, innapprpriate for a Usenet
Rec group. Remember, this thread started with me discussing laptop
trivets. :-) Maybe some folks will be interested in how things get
priced in the software world. Those with weak stomachs should leave
now. Anyone who likes sausage or software should never see either one
being made.

First, you check out the competition. Take a look at
http://www.navstore.com/ft_navvision.asp, also a shareware product,
though they've gotten this site to sell it recently. Very nice
program, seems to do almost everything mine does, some it doesn't, and
looks a *lot* cooler. Also more resource intensive with all the
graphics, and less readable, but that's OK for some people. Also $600
just to get started. Even the pure hardware solution you like, with
no display capabilities, multiplexing, or integration logic, runs $199
per serial port from B&B. Not to say that these alternative's suck;
they each have real merit and no doubt in some situations are the
"right" choice.

But I think your point was really about human-engineering of prices.
Your point is debatable, but very defensible in the tucows environment
you cite. The prospect list is effectively unlimited there. Most
programs there have a potential market of millions of people. If
lowering prices 50% takes you from 100 sales to 500, it's a
no-brainer. When your market is limited, say, to people that have
boats, have laptops, have NMEA networks, want to use them together,
are willing to try shareware, and have cabins that need repeaters,
your sales might go from 10 to 12. :-)

A consideration in the pricing is that I want to improve the program
as a bonus for existing customers, and as an incentive for new
customers. That's not free. I have some technology that I want to
license that will do some terrific stuff, but the creeps want money
for it. A lot more than I want for mine. I'm not even gonna go into
my investment in compilers and hardware to build and test this thing.
It's my problem, not the customers'. But that's probably why nobody
has actually offered an equivalent for $30 yet.

I'd hate to put in a timer that disables the program, because it's
irresponsible to disable part of someones navigation system, for any
reason. Besides, it's not nice. But I understand that you weren't
necessarily recommending that, just mentioning it in passing. In any
event, I'm not going to lose sleep over sleazoids using the software
without paying for it. Those people are always with us. And look how
popular the MPAA and RIAA are with the public for trying to enforce
their (legitimate) rights. In any event, the registrations per
download that I'm getting so far is better than I expected. I think
that speaks well for us boaters. Only time will tell if that trend
continues.

Instead of hoping for a price drop, anyone interested in this program
should hope I don't decide to sell it to Maptech or the CAPN folks or
somebody, who will add a 25 cent box, a 99 cent copy-protected CD, and
a flyer for their high-end products, immediately increase the price to
$149 plus tax, title, and license, and start charging "upgrade fees"
every time they add a feature. :-)

Hey, thanks again for the advice. You actually caused me to consider
some packaging options I've never considered. I might run some ideas
past my beta group to see what they think.

__________________________________________________ __________
Glen "Wiley" Wilson usenet1 SPAMNIX at worldwidewiley dot com
To reply, lose the capitals and do the obvious.

Take a look at cpRepeater, my NMEA data integrator, repeater, and
logger at http://www.worldwidewiley.com/

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 07:47:34 -0500, Joe Wood
wrote:

Then, of course, there's always this:

http://www.boatblender.com/

No comparison. Looks like a girly solution to a girly drink problem.

The "danger factor" of operating a high-speed, 2-stroke ENGINE with
MANLY stainless steel blades that could easily slice off a hand
without loosing 10% of serious RPM.....plus the INTENSE NOISE of the
TailGator attracting attention this (cough)(choke)(puke) "electric
drill attachment" would never render. It's definately a "guy
thing"....

TailGator even leaves access to idle speed and idle mixture screws so
the "guys" can make unnecessary "adjustments" for their manly egos....



Larry W4CSC

"Very funny, Scotty! Now, BEAM ME MY CLOTHES! KIRK OUT!"

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:12:12 -0500, Glenn Ashmore
wrote:



Joe Wood wrote:

Then, of course, there's always this:

http://www.boatblender.com/

That might be OK for cocktails on the boat but it would get laughed
out of the parking lot at the Georgia/Florida game. Last year we made
about 300 Margaritas with the Tailgator in four hours. Had to name a
couple of designated walkers to get some of the crew into the stadium. :-)

--
Glenn Ashmore

Hmm.....The Citadel's Stray Dog Society used my 800 watt mobile sound
system truck at the last Citadel game where they whopped up on
long-time rival Wofford College by one point, making it 4 wins in a
row.

After MANY drinks, the Stray Dogs brought me a Citadel Band CD that
had "Dixie", the song they USED to play every time the ball carrier
crossed the goal line, but are now forbidden to play because of
political correctness. During the cheering, at 800 blistering watts
through massive pro-sound speakers rated at twice that level, "Dixie"
was played to the total delight of every Citadel alumni waving his
hat, in true tradition.....

Then came Monday morning........(d^

The truck won't be at the game, Saturday. The Stray Dogs are "layin'
low" for this one. Way too many drinks clouded their attitudes at the
last one....(c;

I hid in the truck behind my monitor.....



Larry W4CSC

"Very funny, Scotty! Now, BEAM ME MY CLOTHES! KIRK OUT!"