My laptop has always been just a little bit marginal in the cooling
department. In an office environment it's ok. At the nav station in
a Florida summer, not so much. It has even been known to shut down
from the thermal overload. After some fooling around, I decided that
part of the problem was that the little rubber "feet" did not provide
enough clearance for adequate airflow. Any flat surface it was
sitting on would get hot to the touch. I thought about various ways
of mounting a fan (feasible in my setup but noisy and probably
overkill.) Instead,I picked up a sheet of Dri-Deck panel from West.
If you're not familiar with it, it's a self draining plastic thingy
that is the equivalent of a teak cockpit grate for a locker. It's
about the right size, easy to trim, and placed upside down, provides
terrific passive cooling. It's fairly non-slip and easy to secure
anywhere you want it. Problem solved.

Now, according to Usenet protocol, several people should be along
momentarily to tell me

* They thought of it first
* It can't possibly work
* It works too well
* It destroys the environment
* Screw the environment
* I should've mounted a 12000 btu airconditioner under it
* I shouldn't worry about it
* Joshua Slocum only had a rusty clock with one hand
* For only $8k, I could have a real maritime PC
* People that want computers on their boats are jerks
* Only an idiot would try to run a PC on a sailboat in a Florida

Oh wait, that one is true.


__________________________________________________ __________
Glen "Wiley" Wilson usenet1 SPAMNIX at worldwidewiley dot com
To reply, lose the capitals and do the obvious.

Take a look at cpRepeater, my NMEA data integrator, repeater, and
logger at http://www.worldwidewiley.com/

Just a thought - are you running Windows 98? On that OS they didn't handle the "idle
loop" correctly and the CPU runs 100% all the time, maximizing heat. There is software to
correct this. I think ME and XP don't have this problem.

And another thing: You shouldn't be running a computer during the day when its hot - the
fact that its shutting down is proof that God didn't intend them to be used for
navigation! ;-}

"Glen Wiley Wilson" wrote in message
...
My laptop has always been just a little bit marginal in the cooling
department. In an office environment it's ok. At the nav station in
a Florida summer, not so much. It has even been known to shut down
from the thermal overload. After some fooling around, I decided that
part of the problem was that the little rubber "feet" did not provide
enough clearance for adequate airflow. Any flat surface it was
sitting on would get hot to the touch. I thought about various ways
of mounting a fan (feasible in my setup but noisy and probably
overkill.) Instead,I picked up a sheet of Dri-Deck panel from West.
If you're not familiar with it, it's a self draining plastic thingy
that is the equivalent of a teak cockpit grate for a locker. It's
about the right size, easy to trim, and placed upside down, provides
terrific passive cooling. It's fairly non-slip and easy to secure
anywhere you want it. Problem solved.

Now, according to Usenet protocol, several people should be along
momentarily to tell me

* They thought of it first
* It can't possibly work
* It works too well
* It destroys the environment
* Screw the environment
* I should've mounted a 12000 btu airconditioner under it
* I shouldn't worry about it
* Joshua Slocum only had a rusty clock with one hand
* For only $8k, I could have a real maritime PC
* People that want computers on their boats are jerks
* Only an idiot would try to run a PC on a sailboat in a Florida

Oh wait, that one is true.


__________________________________________________ __________
Glen "Wiley" Wilson usenet1 SPAMNIX at worldwidewiley dot com
To reply, lose the capitals and do the obvious.

Take a look at cpRepeater, my NMEA data integrator, repeater, and
logger at http://www.worldwidewiley.com/

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:45:25 -0500, "Jeff Morris"
jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom tempted fate with:

Just a thought - are you running Windows 98? On that OS they didn't handle the "idle
loop" correctly and the CPU runs 100% all the time, maximizing heat. There is software to
correct this. I think ME and XP don't have this problem.

And another thing: You shouldn't be running a computer during the day when its hot - the
fact that its shutting down is proof that God didn't intend them to be used for
navigation! ;-}

Hehe, good one. It's ME, running on a Duron with the PowerNow
software, so that end should be OK. The box is a 2 year old HP
Pavilion and I've heard that they are prone to this sort of thing
because of a poor cooling design and substandard fans. Nice box,
otherwise. I've added memory, which may contribute to the problem.

__________________________________________________ __________
Glen "Wiley" Wilson usenet1 SPAMNIX at worldwidewiley dot com
To reply, lose the capitals and do the obvious.

Take a look at cpRepeater, my NMEA data integrator, repeater, and
logger at http://www.worldwidewiley.com/

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 00:21:54 GMT, "Glen Wiley Wilson"
wrote:


Take a look at cpRepeater, my NMEA data integrator, repeater, and
logger at http://www.worldwidewiley.com/

Glen, have you ever considered adding SeaTalk, Fastnet and the other
proprietary data stream capabilities to your data logger?



Larry W4CSC

"Very funny, Scotty! Now, BEAM ME MY CLOTHES! KIRK OUT!"

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 04:58:43 GMT, (Larry W4CSC)
tempted fate with

Glen, have you ever considered adding SeaTalk, Fastnet and the other
proprietary data stream capabilities to your data logger?


I've looked into Seatalk a little bit. I haven't found any official
documentation for ST, so all this is based on what amounts to hearsay.
Getting ST to and from a serial port requires circuitry, as the
signals are inverted from RS-232 norms. Given the circuitry, the ST
protocol still looks rather messy to handle. For instance, you have
to implement collision processing. I think it might be smarter to
implement the ST interface as a dedicated outboard processor, but you
could almost certainly handle it by taking direct control of the
serialport away from Windows. Finally, handling the ST datagrams in
the same program with NMEA would ,again, be messy but possible.

So given a market, it looks doable. This is where I see the problems.
Bear in mind that marketing is statistical, so there are always
exceptions.

First, in my discussions with people that have ST stuff, I've come
away feeling that they are pretty happy in their single vendor world.
If RayMarine made the program, they might buy it. Otherwise, not.

Second, there are ST==NMEA bidirectional convertors available for
$159. Not too bad, all things considered. That seriously undercuts
any value I could offer with native ST support.

The most difficult issue probably isn't even technical. Speaking from
the perspective of almost 30 years in the hardware and software
business, proprietary protocols are proprietary for a reason, and that
reason is rarely technical. It's generally much more to do with
revenue protection by locking customers into your gear. The problem
is, if you let other people play in your sandbox, that advantage can
evaporate. I could really see RayMarine deciding to go after people
using their protocol without permission, which would never be given.
If they did, I wouldn't have a leg to stand on. That was settled way
back in the dawn of time when Compaq and IBM went to the mat over
reverse-engineering the original IBM PC. I don't really think this is
a likely scenario, but I'd need a pretty good reason for assuming that
liability. Now that I've posted this, I couldn't even claim
ignorance.

All that said, it's an interesting problem. I'll probably look into
it again next year, after I finish some enhancements the paying
customers have asked for.

Well, I seem to have answered a simple question with a lecture.
Sorry about that...




__________________________________________________ __________
Glen "Wiley" Wilson usenet1 SPAMNIX at worldwidewiley dot com
To reply, lose the capitals and do the obvious.

Take a look at cpRepeater, my NMEA data integrator, repeater, and
logger at http://www.worldwidewiley.com/

Glen Wilson wrote:


Now, according to Usenet protocol, several people should be along
momentarily to tell me

* They thought of it first
* It can't possibly work
* It works too well
* It destroys the environment
* Screw the environment
* I should've mounted a 12000 btu airconditioner under it
* I shouldn't worry about it
* Joshua Slocum only had a rusty clock with one hand
* For only $8k, I could have a real maritime PC
* People that want computers on their boats are jerks
* Only an idiot would try to run a PC on a sailboat in a Florida

Oh wait, that one is true.

Cover the nav station top with 1/2" aluminum plate for a heat sink? :-)

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

I agree fully with the proprietary comments. They shoot themselves in
the foot trying to keep you from hooking their gear to a competitor's
widget. Then, to make things worse, they just robbed RS-232 and
called it NMEA, which is ludicrous as a network protocol with its ONE
talker......

I knew SeaTalk had collision protocols, but didn't know it was
inverted, which is easy to fix. SeaTalk connects Lionheart's
Raymarine instruments, then the RL70CRC display does the conversion to
NMEA for me. The SeaTalk instruments are the WAAS-GPS receiver and
Raymarine's Smart Heading Sensor, which I don't think is any smarter
or more accurate than the B&G fluxgate on B&G Network Pilot....another
proprietary, queer group of instruments on the boat. At least any of
the instruments converts to NMEA and all you have to do is pull out
pin 4 data to get to it. B&G's H1000/H2000 line has only Fastnet and
you have to buy another expensive yellow plastic (of course unshielded
so it transmits into the HF at amazing levels) box that converts to
NMEA. We returned the H1000 Sailnet sold us because H1000 Pilot
wouldn't take instructions from its NMEA converter box or the chart
plotters/computers hooked to it. Network Pilot works great off NMEA.
It's "obsolete".

Larry....

I'll check out your program but we already have The Cap'n and its data
panel on the notebook at the nav station....



Larry W4CSC

"Very funny, Scotty! Now, BEAM ME MY CLOTHES! KIRK OUT!"

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:18:14 GMT, (Larry W4CSC)
tempted fate with:



I'll check out your program but we already have The Cap'n and its data
panel on the notebook at the nav station....



Larry W4CSC

As I told my beta testers, if you like it, tell your friends. If you
don't like it, tell me. :-)

As a guy with something to sell, the natural tendency is to believe
that everyone needs your product. Obviously not true. My original
thought was that I was writing something for people that already had
chartplotters and weren't interested in computer charting systems.
Just a pure data repeater function, in other words. That
functionality is mature, that is, pretty much working the way people
seem to want it to. They like having the great big display that you
can see easily from anywhere below, or even from the cockpit. The
flexibility of the display even let's them split the screen with some
other program and still see both of them. The logging feature seems
to be mature, as well.

Where it got interesting was when people started asking for more
integration capabilities. They wanted the repeater program, but they
also wanted to use a charting program. That doesn't work as well as I
want it to, because it either needs spare serial ports or third party
software to implement virtual ports. Just a bit more of a hurdle than
the typical boater is willing to jump for a shareware program. If I'm
doing a complete integration contract for someone, no problem. Even
with the third party software, it's still cheaper and better than
normal repeaters in many ways, once you accept having a computer in
the loop at all. I have a way to fix the port problem without
forcing the purchase of the third party software that I hope to put in
the next major release.

By the way, OziExplorer is the exception to that rule, because it
has a minimal API for passing information, no extra ports needed.
Unfortunately, Ozi doesn't have the acceptance in the marine market of
Maptech and the CAPN and the autopilot support is not so hot.

The other main feature, the networking support, may be a bit ahead of
its time. How may boats have LANs, after all? I do think that we'll
see a lot more of that on big boats in the near future, though. I'm
already astounded at how much interest handhelds (computers, not GPSs)
are generating. Maybe someday a cruise line will hire me to provide
networked displays for all their ships' public areas, or even
individual cabins. The master PC would capture position, speed, wind,
depth info, etc., and my program could forward it over a LAN to each
display PC, where my program could do its display thing and/or hand
the data off to a charting program. I could add custom displays like
how long till dinner, or whatever. How cool would that be?

__________________________________________________ __________
Glen "Wiley" Wilson usenet1 SPAMNIX at worldwidewiley dot com
To reply, lose the capitals and do the obvious.

Take a look at cpRepeater, my NMEA data integrator, repeater, and
logger at http://www.worldwidewiley.com/

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 06:51:37 -0500, Glenn Ashmore
tempted fate with:

Cover the nav station top with 1/2" aluminum plate for a heat sink? :-)

Now that is a MANLY solution. Makes me embarrassed I ever offered up
my girly plastic trivet idea. (-;


__________________________________________________ __________
Glen "Wiley" Wilson usenet1 SPAMNIX at worldwidewiley dot com
To reply, lose the capitals and do the obvious.

Take a look at cpRepeater, my NMEA data integrator, repeater, and
logger at http://www.worldwidewiley.com/

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 21:04:18 GMT, "Glen Wiley Wilson"
wrote:


As I told my beta testers, if you like it, tell your friends. If you
don't like it, tell me. :-)

Will do....(c;

As a guy with something to sell, the natural tendency is to believe
that everyone needs your product. Obviously not true. My original
thought was that I was writing something for people that already had
chartplotters and weren't interested in computer charting systems.
Just a pure data repeater function, in other words. That
functionality is mature, that is, pretty much working the way people
seem to want it to. They like having the great big display that you
can see easily from anywhere below, or even from the cockpit. The
flexibility of the display even let's them split the screen with some
other program and still see both of them. The logging feature seems
to be mature, as well.

My application is to notebooks and PDAs around the boat. Read
below...(c;

The other main feature, the networking support, may be a bit ahead of
its time. How may boats have LANs, after all? I do think that we'll
see a lot more of that on big boats in the near future, though. I'm
already astounded at how much interest handhelds (computers, not GPSs)
are generating. Maybe someday a cruise line will hire me to provide
networked displays for all their ships' public areas, or even
individual cabins. The master PC would capture position, speed, wind,
depth info, etc., and my program could forward it over a LAN to each
display PC, where my program could do its display thing and/or hand
the data off to a charting program. I could add custom displays like
how long till dinner, or whatever. How cool would that be?

Aha....Here we have a common interest!......

I'm toying with the idea of creating a WIRELESS network aboard the
boat (802.11b, probably). Integration to the NMEA network will be via
a converter, such as:
http://www.bb-elec.com/product.asp?s...ltsku=ethernet

This will allow me to redirect The Cap'n to the 802.11b port using
TCP/IP and a common router to the wireless LAN (I like Netgears). One
of the ports on the Netgear router is this converter which handles
TCP/IP from my DHCP server aboard and talks to a common RS-232 serial
port....I.E. NMEA 0183, 4800 baud 8/n/1 to the hard-wired NMEA
instruments already functional.

There's no reason The Cap'n or any NAV software cannot simply put out
its NMEA serial statements to a TCP/IP network, routed to the
converter device's IP, which converts bi-directional to it all the
NMEA data.....in and out of the simple NMEA network. The PDA in your
bunk.....the notebook sitting at the helm....or any other wireless
device, now becomes connected to the NMEA network many of us have
running. The Cap'n on the wireless notebook at the helm, connects
through the converter device on 192.168.0.4 and starts receiving and
processing network data, sending out NMEA instructions to the
autopilot listening to the NMEA network. No serial cables, no hard
wired crap dangling off the chart table and the wireless network on
2.4Ghz won't be susceptable to the 150W HF SSB RF like the serial
cables are, now.....

Wouldn't it be cool if ALL INSTRUMENTS were wireless devices to a
central shipboard router using STANDARD 802.11b protocols and TCP/IP.
God, I could use my HF radio on ANY frequency if I got the NMEA crap
off the wires....(c;

"To add our new wireless headsail roller furler to your networked
boat, simply plug it into 12VDC via the handy cable and it will log
itself onto your wireless router for control."

We'll even be able to watch the "Enroute Movies" from anywhere,
instead of just on the notebook at the chart table....(c;
http://www.videolan.org/
It's not "boat programs" so it's GPL freeware....(c;



Larry W4CSC

"Very funny, Scotty! Now, BEAM ME MY CLOTHES! KIRK OUT!"