Glen "Wiley" Wilson wrote:

Wow, this is a really old post. I don't really remember the context.
snip


Funny, my newserver just dredged it up and served it to me for some
reason. I'd probably have not posted had I noticed that.

But thanks for replying, I appreciate the info an your opion on the
other considerations.

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)

"thuss" wrote in
oups.com:

http://www.marinewireless.us/

Wow! $800 is kinda PRICEY! PAY, BOATERS, PAY!

I've had a wireless LAN on board Lionheart, an Amel Sharki 41' ketch, for
some time. A Compaq Latitude notebook runs The Cap'n nav software. The
router is a Netgear 802.11b WEP-protected wireless unit. The serial to
Ethernet interface is plugged directly into it. It's a WebFoot WF-1 serial
to Ethernet interface with full DHCP-enabled automatic IP assignment from
the Netgear router's DHCP server to all its LAN devices. Here's the little
device:
http://www.stayonline.com/serial_to_ethernet/3311.asp
I see it's price here is about $60 more than I paid for ours. The serial
port is hooked to the boat's NMEA multiplexer serial port. Webfoot
includes a "virtual serial port" program that runs on the notebook through
the network. NMEA-enabled programs merely connect to this faux-serial-port
dll spoofing them as COM3 on Windoze 2000. The Cap'n comes online thinking
the virtual serial port is connected directly to the multiplexer. No
interface setup is necessary.

It's a LOT less than $800!!

WebFoot - $110
Netgear Wireless Router - $90
Software virtual serial port - free

We also use a network-shared little HP printer plugged into the same
router's 4-port Ethernet hub. If you're laying on a beanbag in the bow (on
lookout, of course) steering the boat by LAN to the B&G autopilot with The
Cap'n.....you can printout the chart by remote control via the network
router for the person at our nav table....who's plotting on paper chart
with the B&G Yeoman electronic plotting board I stuck to the plotting
table's lift top. I can send that Yeoman waypoints from the wireless
notebook as we toodle along, too....(c;

Hi Larry,

I agree about your comments regarding price, $800 puts it out of the
price range of your average budget cruiser. I would love to see more
people (like you've done) coming out posting HOWTO's on how to create
an inexpensive wireless navigation solution on-board.

We can't compete (nor are we trying to) with hobbyists or highly
technical folks rolling their own using commodity components. For
example our cost on the 200mW 802.11 transmitter and high gain antenna
we include in the unit (which is one of the best out there but only a
small portion of the total unit) costs more than the entire Netgear
wireless access point you make reference to.

Our objective was to create a very high quality single 12-24V unit that
connects to the multiplexer and makes the NMEA data available to
multiple laptops running at the same time. Due to the size of the
market and our costs (including customer support) $800 makes it a break
even proposition for us at the moment. I wish we had the budget and
potential market size of a Netgear or Linksys, in which case we could
offer it for $100.

For folks who want to use Bluetooth or who are on a budget, you can't
go wrong to checkout Shipmodul's Bluetooth multiplexer, it's very cool.
Either way, I'm excited by products of the likes of TackTick and
Shipmodul that are making out of the box wireless navigation a reality
today!

Best,
Todd

--
Marine Wireless
http://www.marinewireless.us


Larry W4CSC wrote:
"thuss" wrote in
oups.com:

http://www.marinewireless.us/

Wow! $800 is kinda PRICEY! PAY, BOATERS, PAY!

I've had a wireless LAN on board Lionheart, an Amel Sharki 41' ketch,
for
some time. A Compaq Latitude notebook runs The Cap'n nav software.
The
router is a Netgear 802.11b WEP-protected wireless unit. The serial
to
Ethernet interface is plugged directly into it. It's a WebFoot WF-1
serial
to Ethernet interface with full DHCP-enabled automatic IP assignment
from
the Netgear router's DHCP server to all its LAN devices. Here's the
little
device:
http://www.stayonline.com/serial_to_ethernet/3311.asp
I see it's price here is about $60 more than I paid for ours. The
serial
port is hooked to the boat's NMEA multiplexer serial port. Webfoot
includes a "virtual serial port" program that runs on the notebook
through
the network. NMEA-enabled programs merely connect to this
faux-serial-port
dll spoofing them as COM3 on Windoze 2000. The Cap'n comes online
thinking
the virtual serial port is connected directly to the multiplexer. No

interface setup is necessary.

It's a LOT less than $800!!

WebFoot - $110
Netgear Wireless Router - $90
Software virtual serial port - free

We also use a network-shared little HP printer plugged into the same
router's 4-port Ethernet hub. If you're laying on a beanbag in the
bow (on
lookout, of course) steering the boat by LAN to the B&G autopilot
with The
Cap'n.....you can printout the chart by remote control via the
network
router for the person at our nav table....who's plotting on paper
chart
with the B&G Yeoman electronic plotting board I stuck to the plotting

table's lift top. I can send that Yeoman waypoints from the wireless
notebook as we toodle along, too....(c;

"thuss" wrote in
ups.com:



For folks who want to use Bluetooth or who are on a budget, you can't
go wrong to checkout Shipmodul's Bluetooth multiplexer, it's very cool.
Either way, I'm excited by products of the likes of TackTick and
Shipmodul that are making out of the box wireless navigation a reality
today!

Best,
Todd


Now, if we could just DUMP all this old serial, one talker, crap and get
"them" to put in a DHCP compatible TCP/IP addressable port on every piece
of marine electronics....oh wouldn't that be nice....(c;

Talking to marine electronics reminds me of talking to a Commodore 64 with
no tape drive....

I'm not sure Bluetooth is the answer. Bluetooth doesn't have enough RANGE,
made for 32 ft like it is. That's 32 ft of FREE space, not 32 ft buried in
the wiring of a boat with all the noises generated by all the unshielded,
plastic-encased electronic transmitters square-waving the spectrum.

No, just bury the Ethernet cabling into the hull to a nice router/hub
system and plug all the toys into it. Any toy can talk to any other toy
through the IP addresses the router has a virtual unlimited (not 16) number
of. No conflicts with too many talkers and the packets are all taken care
of by the system. 802.11x wireless is fine. All the operational notebooks
are already configured to let the ship's DHCP server automatically
configure them, whether they be hard plugged into a port in your stateroom,
the bridge, the salon or on wireless laid out next to you in your deck
chair. No "interface" is necessary and the world is already full of off-
the-shelf stuff to make it happen.

Hell, we can even connect the ship's VoIP phones and Satphone data ports to
everything. Who would need the mostly-nonfunctional GMDSS, which I don't
think will ever work properly, because of its idiotic limitations? Got an
emergency aboard? No problem. Press the red-button and the ShipLAN calls
USCG's server...DIRECTLY...to report our position. Pickup any phone on the
boat and talk from our VoIP phones to the USCG operator-on-duty. That
wouldn't be new technology. It's already installed! All I need to make it
happen is Ethernet-enabled marine instruments.....like industry has been
using for years.

Of course, this would require NMEA's manufacturers to stop leaving
unshielded, unbalanced wires hanging out of some $50, proprietary rubber
plug noone can get after the manufacturer loses interest in this
model.....(c;

Bluetooth is too weak to depend upon for life-or-death data. All the
important instruments need to be hard wired with Ethernet to a central
router, or even redundant routers. Being able to have a hub any place you
like connected to just ONE Ethernet between points, such as the hub at the
helm to the hub at the nav station someplace else makes sense, too.

Just dreaming.....We'll be stuck with NMEA or some other proprietary
nonsense like Raymarine's or B&G's or other non-compatible stuff forever.

As long as they'll keep BUYING IT......

"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
"thuss" wrote in
ups.com:


serial rant/ethernet promotion snipped

Just dreaming.....We'll be stuck with NMEA or some other proprietary
nonsense like Raymarine's or B&G's or other non-compatible stuff forever.

As long as they'll keep BUYING IT......

Imagine what it would to to the prices of all fairly cheap instruments the
moment they need a more powerfull processor and more memory to run a TCP/IP
stack......

Meindert

"Meindert Sprang" wrote in
:


Imagine what it would to to the prices of all fairly cheap instruments
the moment they need a more powerfull processor and more memory to run
a TCP/IP stack......

Meindert


What processor? Off-the-shelf components used to interface cheap computers
to TCP/IP? http://www.xs4all.nl/~ganswijk/chipdir/f/network.htm
http://www.chipcatalog.com/Cat/99.htm


Here's a whole Ethernet IP communications device on one IC...
http://www.anybus.com/eng/products/p...ctType=AnyBus-
IC

Oh, oh....I forgot.....these are STANDARIZED parts, not NMEA manufacturer
proprietaries.....(c;

Yeah, they'd raise the price $10/unit, I suppose.

Think the market would bear it if everything could talk to everything else?

"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
"thuss" wrote in
ups.com:
Talking to marine electronics reminds me of talking to a Commodore 64 with
no tape drive....

Please don't demean the Commodore 64...marine electronics is still in the
Sinclair/Timex computer status, without the rubber bands to hold the extra
memory module in place. I did invest in an aftermarket tape drive clean up
device (I suspect it was a Schmidt trigger to regenerate cleaner pulses). I
remember Commodore 64/128 disc drives as proprietary also...copywrite
protection would bang the heads against the front stop until it mechanically
moved. I made a lot of money to invest in ham gear by having a Commodore
alignment disc and a scope...loosen the painted front stop screws and adjust
the heads for the best scope pattern from the alignment reference disc and
retighten the screws. I charged $ 15 a disc drive for that. If only marine
electronics interfaces would get out of the dark ages...

73
Doug K7ABX

In article ,
Larry W4CSC wrote:

Just dreaming.....We'll be stuck with NMEA or some other proprietary
nonsense like Raymarine's or B&G's or other non-compatible stuff forever.

As long as they'll keep BUYING IT......

check out the Furuno commercial stuff......It's all ethernet.....


Me

On 2005-02-02 04:08:52 +1100, Larry W4CSC said:

"Meindert Sprang" wrote in
:

Imagine what it would to to the prices of all fairly cheap instruments
the moment they need a more powerfull processor and more memory to run
a TCP/IP stack......

Meindert


What processor? Off-the-shelf components used to interface cheap
computers to TCP/IP?
http://www.xs4all.nl/~ganswijk/chipdir/f/network.htm
http://www.chipcatalog.com/Cat/99.htm


Here's a whole Ethernet IP communications device on one IC...
http://www.anybus.com/eng/products/p...ctType=AnyBus-
IC

Oh, oh....I forgot.....these are STANDARIZED parts, not NMEA
manufacturer proprietaries.....(c;

Yeah, they'd raise the price $10/unit, I suppose.

Think the market would bear it if everything could talk to everything else?

Well I can't resist! The use of the TCP/IP stack for this application
is just plain stupid! Every recently manufactured car and there are a
hell of a lot of them has the Bosch 2 wire Controller Area Network
(CAN) communications bus connecting all the various elctronic
controllers. This bus is also the basis of NMEA 2000 spec. This
technology was designed for noisey environments, is robust and has very
high levels of silicon integration to get data on and off the bus.

BTW don't trash the technology just because the NMEA marketing arm has
it's 'head stuffed where the sun don't shine' It works very well in the
auto industry worldwide and should work as well in the marine industry
if the NMEA can get over their big boys club attitude to licensing IP!

Meindert is right TCP/IP is just plain stupid overkill!

--
Regards,
John Proctor VK3JP, VKV6789
S/V Chagall

"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
"Meindert Sprang" wrote in
:


What processor? Off-the-shelf components used to interface cheap
computers
to TCP/IP? http://www.xs4all.nl/~ganswijk/chipdir/f/network.htm
http://www.chipcatalog.com/Cat/99.htm

These chips are all tranceivers or basic ethernet chips. They need a
processor to run a TCP/IP stack.


Here's a whole Ethernet IP communications device on one IC...
http://www.anybus.com/eng/products/p...ctType=AnyBus-
IC

Nice devices, but they are expensive. Similar devices from Lantronix for
instance do the entire TCP/IP trick for you, but they cost $40-$50 in large
quantities. That would increase the average sales price $100-$150 for each
ethernet based instrument.

Yeah, they'd raise the price $10/unit, I suppose.
See above....

Meindert