I just want to say a big thanks to everyone on this group who
responded to my post last year regarding a wireless NMEA navigation
server. Based on your ideas and suggestions we've turned it into a
real product and are currently beta testing it with a number of boats:

http://www.marinewireless.us

Anyhow, thanks again for all the feedback and help in turning this
idea into reality. Now we'll just have to see if there is any real
market demand for wireless navigation ;-)

-Todd

On 6 Nov 2003 11:20:57 -0800, (Todd) tempted fate
with:


Anyhow, thanks again for all the feedback and help in turning this
idea into reality. Now we'll just have to see if there is any real
market demand for wireless navigation ;-)

-Todd
Interesting. I just installed Net Stumbler on my laptop. It picked
up a network in the marina with an SSID "Albin 42", so I guess it's
not exactly unknown.
__________________________________________________ __________
Glen "Wiley" Wilson usenet1 SPAMNIX at worldwidewiley dot com
To reply, lose the capitals and do the obvious.

Take a look at cpRepeater, my NMEA data integrator, repeater, and
logger at http://www.worldwidewiley.com/

Glen Wiley Wilson wrote:

Interesting. I just installed Net Stumbler on my laptop. It picked
up a network in the marina with an SSID "Albin 42", so I guess it's
not exactly unknown.

Did you try to log onto the network? I was at a marine in Florida last
April and, with their permission (they had to give the the SSID, I used
their wireless network to get email and get some online support download
some docs for the equipment I was installing.

Later, in Baltimore, the marine there has a "cash and carry" wireless
network available. You logged in, made a payment with a credit card,
and got a certain amount of access time. I don't remember the specifics
of costs but I considered it reasonable. I have done some wireless
networking and realize that when someone puts you on an AP and a T1
network connection there are some costs that have to be paid.

I did not have Net Stumbler then but do now and won't go anywhere with
out it. It has been great for trouble shooting my home wireless too.

If you have a PCMCIA wireless card with an external antenna connector (I
like the Buffalo cards for that) you can add a higher gain external
antenna and it will make a big difference in finding AP's and staying
associated.

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jacker at midmaine dot com

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 10:10:22 -0500, Jack Erbes
wrote:
Wow, this is a really old post. I don't really remember the context.
Glen Wiley Wilson wrote:

Interesting. I just installed Net Stumbler on my laptop. It picked
up a network in the marina with an SSID "Albin 42", so I guess it's
not exactly unknown.

Did you try to log onto the network? I was at a marine in Florida last
April and, with their permission (they had to give the the SSID, I used
their wireless network to get email and get some online support download
some docs for the equipment I was installing.

No, for several reasons. The main one is that it obviously belonged
to the Albin 42 on the next dock, hence probably not intended for
public consumption. Anyway, it had WEP enabled. Not that WEP
presents any problems if you seriously want in and know what to do.

Later, in Baltimore, the marine there has a "cash and carry" wireless
network available. You logged in, made a payment with a credit card,
and got a certain amount of access time. I don't remember the specifics
of costs but I considered it reasonable. I have done some wireless
networking and realize that when someone puts you on an AP and a T1
network connection there are some costs that have to be paid.

Several marinas I've been to, including my home marina, use a wireless
service. I tried it, was unimpressed for several reasons. Support
was non-existent. Security was non-existent. Oh, you needed a
password to log in, and that password was encrypted. But anything
else that goes over the ether was wide open, since WEP is not enabled.
A lot of critical web traffice will be secure, but things like email
are wide open. Again, WEP is hardly Fort Knox, but why make it easy?
In my marina, there's a college within range of their AP fer
chrissake. Nothing like having a hundred or so wannabee hackers
reading your email.

I thought the cost was out of line. You could install a phone line
and DSL for less, if you're looking at more than a few months of
service. Or basic cable and a cable modem. Bear in mind, you get
nothing but the connection. No news server, no email address. Very
few of the marina liveaboards and regular weekenders are using the
WiFi. Actually, none that I know of.

For transients, the value of the service is whatever they're willing
to pay, but most marinas I've been in have a spare phone line for
dial-up users nowadays. Still, it's not a bad deal for a day's use.
If I was doing it, I'd price with the objective of getting all the
liveaboards and a lot of the regular weekenders signed up. Transients
would be gravy.

Their marketing pitch is off as well, in my opinion. They emphasize
that you can sit by the pool and use your computer. Who does that?

I did have one unorthodox use for the service when I had it. My NMEA
repeater program supports network operations, so I could actually
monitor a few things remotely. Wind speed and direction, obviously.
I could also get tide state by watching the depth in the slip. I
wrote the code to monitor laptop battery level remotely, which would
tell you if AC power was off, but I never released it.. The
networking feature was intended for use on the boat's network, not
connecting to the outside world. Most people don't have static IP
addresses, so permanent connections of that sort aren't very doable.

I did not have Net Stumbler then but do now and won't go anywhere with
out it. It has been great for trouble shooting my home wireless too.

Yeah, it's great for that.

If you have a PCMCIA wireless card with an external antenna connector (I
like the Buffalo cards for that) you can add a higher gain external
antenna and it will make a big difference in finding AP's and staying
associated.

Jack

When I first started using NetStumbler, the Orinoco cards were hands
down the best choice. Very litlle else was supported and they have an
antenna connector. I reinstalled NS about a year ago after a hiatus
and things seem to be a lot better now. The latest version even
supports the onboard wireless on my new laptop.

Glen

__________________________________________________ __________
Glen "Wiley" Wilson usenet1 SPAMNIX at world wide wiley dot com
To reply, lose the capitals and do the obvious.

Take a look at cpRepeater, my NMEA data integrator, repeater, and
logger at http://www.worldwidewiley.com/

Glen "Wiley" Wilson wrote:

Wow, this is a really old post. I don't really remember the context.
snip


Funny, my newserver just dredged it up and served it to me for some
reason. I'd probably have not posted had I noticed that.

But thanks for replying, I appreciate the info an your opion on the
other considerations.

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)

Todd, I'm using the B&B Electronics serial direct to network box
between our NMEA network and a $39 Netgear wireless router. The box
is $149, not $700 West Marine pricing. Are you using their Virtual
Serial Port software? It works great with The Cap'n, totally
transparent. The Cap'n thinks it's talking to the serial port, not
the TCP/IP of the Linksys PCMCIA card in the side of the Dell
Latitude.

Pretty cool to sit on the bow and waypoint the B&G Network
Pilot....(c;

I can also simultaneously logon to Ashley Marina's WiFi open network
near the docks very nicely. Too bad noone has a better WiFi network
out in the harbor....dammit.

The RS-232 I/O works very nicely with our Noland Multiplexer's RX/TX
port. The Cap'n gets the data and waypoints her around great!

B&B Electronics specializes in remote instrumentation......



On 6 Nov 2003 11:20:57 -0800, (Todd) wrote:

I just want to say a big thanks to everyone on this group who
responded to my post last year regarding a wireless NMEA navigation
server. Based on your ideas and suggestions we've turned it into a
real product and are currently beta testing it with a number of boats:

http://www.marinewireless.us

Anyhow, thanks again for all the feedback and help in turning this
idea into reality. Now we'll just have to see if there is any real
market demand for wireless navigation ;-)

-Todd


Larry W4CSC

"Very funny, Scotty! Now, BEAM ME MY CLOTHES! KIRK OUT!"

Larry,

I didn't know about the B&B unit, thanks for pointing it out! I'm glad
to see other folks are doing wireless navigation on their boats.

Does the B&B unit support multiple clients (e.g. multiple laptops and
handhelds) getting the NMEA data at the same time?

Do you have the netgear and B&B running through the inverter or were
you able to wire them both into the 12V power?

It sounds like a good and inexpensive solution! That's the downside of
making a product specific for the marine industry... low volume =
higher pricing.

Cheers,
Todd

--
Marine Wireless
http://www.marinewireless.us

(Larry W4CSC) wrote in message ...
Todd, I'm using the B&B Electronics serial direct to network box
between our NMEA network and a $39 Netgear wireless router. The box
is $149, not $700 West Marine pricing. Are you using their Virtual
Serial Port software? It works great with The Cap'n, totally
transparent. The Cap'n thinks it's talking to the serial port, not
the TCP/IP of the Linksys PCMCIA card in the side of the Dell
Latitude.

Pretty cool to sit on the bow and waypoint the B&G Network
Pilot....(c;

I can also simultaneously logon to Ashley Marina's WiFi open network
near the docks very nicely. Too bad noone has a better WiFi network
out in the harbor....dammit.

The RS-232 I/O works very nicely with our Noland Multiplexer's RX/TX
port. The Cap'n gets the data and waypoints her around great!

B&B Electronics specializes in remote instrumentation......



On 6 Nov 2003 11:20:57 -0800, (Todd) wrote:

I just want to say a big thanks to everyone on this group who
responded to my post last year regarding a wireless NMEA navigation
server. Based on your ideas and suggestions we've turned it into a
real product and are currently beta testing it with a number of boats:

http://www.marinewireless.us

Anyhow, thanks again for all the feedback and help in turning this
idea into reality. Now we'll just have to see if there is any real
market demand for wireless navigation ;-)

-Todd


Larry W4CSC

"Very funny, Scotty! Now, BEAM ME MY CLOTHES! KIRK OUT!"

On 7 Nov 2003 10:14:29 -0800, (Todd) wrote:

Larry,

I didn't know about the B&B unit, thanks for pointing it out! I'm glad
to see other folks are doing wireless navigation on their boats.

Does the B&B unit support multiple clients (e.g. multiple laptops and
handhelds) getting the NMEA data at the same time?

You'll have to ask B&B that. We only have one computer aboard. It
does have its own IP address, and is fully TCP/IP compatible like any
internet connection, so I don't see why it would only connect to one
at a time unless there's a parameter to prevent it you can set up.

Do you have the netgear and B&B running through the inverter or were
you able to wire them both into the 12V power?

They're plugged into the Tripplite 300W inverter with the computer
charger at the nav station. Hardly draw any current when the computer
isn't loading it up, charging its cranking battery and running its
mainframe. I bought the Netgear because the RP114 buried behind my
desk, here, has been running flawlessly in the maze of wires and dirt
behind my desk for years, 24/7/365....unlike the Linksys routers that
died 3 times and required constant firmware upgrading to correct
mistakes.

It sounds like a good and inexpensive solution! That's the downside of
making a product specific for the marine industry... low volume =
higher pricing.

Are you actually making this, or are you relabeling off-the-shelf
stuff as someone says?

Are you using this "Virtual Serial Port" software B&B is selling?



Larry W4CSC

"Very funny, Scotty! Now, BEAM ME MY CLOTHES! KIRK OUT!"

(Larry W4CSC) wrote in message ...
Are you actually making this, or are you relabeling off-the-shelf
stuff as someone says?

Are you using this "Virtual Serial Port" software B&B is selling?

Larry W4CSC

"Very funny, Scotty! Now, BEAM ME MY CLOTHES! KIRK OUT!"

Hi Larry,

Making versus relabling is a really grey issue when it comes to
computer hardware. Just look at your wireless access point. They're
using a CPU and board from one company, having the case manufactured
by a different overseas company, and then using someone else's
(probably prism based) 802.11 card and external antenna. Some access
point manufacturers write their own firmware and others use linux
(e.g. the Dell 802.11 access points).

We're doing the same thing, very similar to Dell in that we have a
domestic supplier we work with for the CPU and case, another vendor
for the wireless transmitter, andenna, and solid state storage, linux
as the embedded platform, and then our own embedded software on top of
that. We currently do the assembly in-house.

With regards to the virtual serial port software we currently use our
own. With our beta program we will be evaluating our own virtual
serial port software against another vendors and whichever comes out
on top is what we will include with the final marine wireless
navigation server.

Best,
Todd

--
Marine Wireless
http://www.marinewireless.us

What you describe is very typical. Very few of the high tech companies in
the Boston area actually "manufacture" in the sense that I knew it as a kid
in Chicago. They never cut metal or paint it. They don't fab, stuff,
solder or test PC boards. They just put things together that others make to
spec. Recently even the putting together is offsite.

As more and more of what's important in products like radars becomes the
software, we'll see more products that differ only in software. My choice
of Furuno for our big radar (I think, tune in later when I actually buy it)
is based entirely on software and user interface. In truth, I haven't even
looked at the antenna specs to see if there are any differences between
Furuno, Raymarine, and Simrad.

There's a fair amount of this in marine electronics. JRC made the Raytheon
41XX -- seems strange, as Raytheon is one of the premier radar companies in
the world, but that's the way it was. Airmar makes most of the industry's
depth sounder transducers. And so forth.


--
Jim Woodward
www.mvFintry.com


..
"Todd" wrote in message
m...
(Larry W4CSC) wrote in message
...
Are you actually making this, or are you relabeling off-the-shelf
stuff as someone says?

Are you using this "Virtual Serial Port" software B&B is selling?

Larry W4CSC

"Very funny, Scotty! Now, BEAM ME MY CLOTHES! KIRK OUT!"

Hi Larry,

Making versus relabling is a really grey issue when it comes to
computer hardware. Just look at your wireless access point. They're
using a CPU and board from one company, having the case manufactured
by a different overseas company, and then using someone else's
(probably prism based) 802.11 card and external antenna. Some access
point manufacturers write their own firmware and others use linux
(e.g. the Dell 802.11 access points).

We're doing the same thing, very similar to Dell in that we have a
domestic supplier we work with for the CPU and case, another vendor
for the wireless transmitter, andenna, and solid state storage, linux
as the embedded platform, and then our own embedded software on top of
that. We currently do the assembly in-house.

With regards to the virtual serial port software we currently use our
own. With our beta program we will be evaluating our own virtual
serial port software against another vendors and whichever comes out
on top is what we will include with the final marine wireless
navigation server.

Best,
Todd

--
Marine Wireless
http://www.marinewireless.us