I have a Bombardier Utopia 185 jet boat, powered by a Merc 100hp DFI jet.
That is an 18.5 ft bowrider runabout. I would like to add an autopilot to
it. Anyone have any recommendations? Has anyone added an autopilot to a
jet boat and have any suggestions? Thanks
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com

Larry wrote:

I have a Bombardier Utopia 185 jet boat, powered by a Merc 100hp DFI jet.
That is an 18.5 ft bowrider runabout. I would like to add an autopilot to
it. Anyone have any recommendations? Has anyone added an autopilot to a
jet boat and have any suggestions? Thanks


No offense, but what you are doing with your hands and eyes on an 18'
boat that require you to use an autopilot?

--
Email sent to is never read.

On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 13:04:20 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

Larry wrote:

I have a Bombardier Utopia 185 jet boat, powered by a Merc 100hp DFI jet.
That is an 18.5 ft bowrider runabout. I would like to add an autopilot to
it. Anyone have any recommendations? Has anyone added an autopilot to a
jet boat and have any suggestions? Thanks

No offense, but what you are doing with your hands and eyes on an 18'
boat that require you to use an autopilot?

None taken, Harry. The problem isn't the boat size, it's the jet drive.
You can't take your hands off the wheel; it seems to need constant
corrections, and the lower your speed, the more sensitive. This is my
first jet, and while I love the idea of no prop (I'm in northern NH - all
lakes, some of them shallow), the tendency is for the boat to track to one
side. I'm not sure why this is, as "steering" consists of moving a large
pipe in an arc. One would think that it should tend to center, but it
doesn't.

I take her out alone quite a bit, usually on large lakes in western Maine.
I'd like to be able to reach for a sandwich and eat it without having to
hold on to the wheel constantly. Note that does not mean I'm not paying
attention! If I could rig a tiller pilot, that would be fine.

I realize this sounds like I know little to nothing about boats, but I was
born near the water and have cruised and sailed quite a bit. I've owned a
wide variety from a 14' runabout (my first) to a 38' twin screw Hubert
Johnson (my last before moving up here). That doesn't make me an expert,
but perhaps not a novice either.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com

Larry wrote:

On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 13:04:20 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

Larry wrote:

I have a Bombardier Utopia 185 jet boat, powered by a Merc 100hp DFI jet.
That is an 18.5 ft bowrider runabout. I would like to add an autopilot to
it. Anyone have any recommendations? Has anyone added an autopilot to a
jet boat and have any suggestions? Thanks

No offense, but what you are doing with your hands and eyes on an 18'
boat that require you to use an autopilot?

None taken, Harry. The problem isn't the boat size, it's the jet drive.
You can't take your hands off the wheel; it seems to need constant
corrections, and the lower your speed, the more sensitive. This is my
first jet, and while I love the idea of no prop (I'm in northern NH - all
lakes, some of them shallow), the tendency is for the boat to track to one
side. I'm not sure why this is, as "steering" consists of moving a large
pipe in an arc. One would think that it should tend to center, but it
doesn't.

I take her out alone quite a bit, usually on large lakes in western Maine.
I'd like to be able to reach for a sandwich and eat it without having to
hold on to the wheel constantly. Note that does not mean I'm not paying
attention! If I could rig a tiller pilot, that would be fine.

I realize this sounds like I know little to nothing about boats, but I was
born near the water and have cruised and sailed quite a bit. I've owned a
wide variety from a 14' runabout (my first) to a 38' twin screw Hubert
Johnson (my last before moving up here). That doesn't make me an expert,
but perhaps not a novice either.


Interesting. Well, autopilots work on small boats, but the small boats
I've been on that have been so equipped tend to wander a bit back and
forth, yaw, as it were. Bigger boats tend to do that, too, but the
motion seems less noticeable.

I don't know a soul who has a jetboat with an autopilot. Hinckley builds
some large, fancy boats and I presume they are so equipped. You might
want to contact Hinckley and what non-nominal behavior might be part and
parcel of equipping a small jet drive boat with an autopilot.


--
Email sent to is never read.

On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 18:38:41 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

Interesting. Well, autopilots work on small boats, but the small boats
I've been on that have been so equipped tend to wander a bit back and
forth, yaw, as it were. Bigger boats tend to do that, too, but the
motion seems less noticeable.

That's interesting. I've never seen a small boat with an autopilot, so I
have no basis to judge. I wonder if they were controlled by flux gate
compasses or NEMA streams from a GPS? I can see where that might well be a
problem. The larger the craft, the greater the mass, so it makes sense
that they would tend to track better.

I don't know a soul who has a jetboat with an autopilot. Hinckley builds
some large, fancy boats and I presume they are so equipped. You might
want to contact Hinckley and what non-nominal behavior might be part and
parcel of equipping a small jet drive boat with an autopilot.

Either do I, thus the post here! Furthermore, this may be entirely
impractical. If it is, I'll drop it.

Hinckley makes gorgeous boats! That's a name from the past, I'm glad to
see they're still around. I'll take a look - thank you.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com

I would say it is impractable.
Chap has an auto-pilot here in Sth Aust on a 38footer and believe me it is
the worst boat in the fleet. The boat has the nickname of "drunkboat".
Firstly, those jets are OK for 18 footers going like a bat-out-of-hell up a
fast flowing river & doing spin-outs in their own length like in NZ tourist
fjiords.
At 18 to 25 knots they just wander all over the place. Maybe if you had a
full length keel or something it might help.
"drunkboat" has nearly been spun that many times in a big following sea that
most won't go out with him if there are more than a metre seas running. Like
I said, on a 45MPH boat on a fresh water lake.......... no worries.
BruceM


"Larry" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 18:38:41 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

Interesting. Well, autopilots work on small boats, but the small boats
I've been on that have been so equipped tend to wander a bit back and
forth, yaw, as it were. Bigger boats tend to do that, too, but the
motion seems less noticeable.

That's interesting. I've never seen a small boat with an autopilot, so I
have no basis to judge. I wonder if they were controlled by flux gate
compasses or NEMA streams from a GPS? I can see where that might well be
a
problem. The larger the craft, the greater the mass, so it makes sense
that they would tend to track better.

I don't know a soul who has a jetboat with an autopilot. Hinckley builds
some large, fancy boats and I presume they are so equipped. You might
want to contact Hinckley and what non-nominal behavior might be part and
parcel of equipping a small jet drive boat with an autopilot.

Either do I, thus the post here! Furthermore, this may be entirely
impractical. If it is, I'll drop it.

Hinckley makes gorgeous boats! That's a name from the past, I'm glad to
see they're still around. I'll take a look - thank you.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 19:31:07 +1030, BruceM wrote:

I would say it is impractable.
Chap has an auto-pilot here in Sth Aust on a 38footer and believe me it is
the worst boat in the fleet. The boat has the nickname of "drunkboat".
Firstly, those jets are OK for 18 footers going like a bat-out-of-hell up a
fast flowing river & doing spin-outs in their own length like in NZ tourist
fjiords.
At 18 to 25 knots they just wander all over the place. Maybe if you had a
full length keel or something it might help.
"drunkboat" has nearly been spun that many times in a big following sea that
most won't go out with him if there are more than a metre seas running. Like
I said, on a 45MPH boat on a fresh water lake.......... no worries.
BruceM

A few years ago I was on a short cruise in a 44' mv in Bermuda. It was
equipped with an autopilot - a Raymarine, I think. We were in fairly light
seas, but it handled really well. (the Capt. let me take the wheel for a
while) Of course since there wasn't much of a sea, that might have been
the reason.

My very limited understanding of autopilots is that they have to be matched
to the boat. The critical parameter is something I'd call "damping" - how
much rudder is applied for a given deviation and how much rudder behavior
is anticipated. Another factor might be whether the reference is a
fluxgate compass or a NEMA stream from a GPS.

Do you know much about the "drunkboat"? Was it a do-it-yourself or
professional installation? What equipment?

As I said earlier, this might be a futile exercise - it appears that nobody
has even tried it.

I don't tend towards going like a bat out of hell! If I lived closer to a
large body of water, I'd probably have a nice sailboat in the 30 - 40'
range, but they don't trailer very well among the lakes, which, as I said,
can be shallow...

Thanks for your comments
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com

Sorry I don't know the construction history of "drunkboat" but I'm sure that
everything is still as it was when constructed. The problem is not so much
with the auto pilot as it is to do with the jet.
Have you ever let a high pressure hose go seen how it goes back & forth?
The effect on the last foot of hose is determined on the direction the hose
was pointing milliseconds before, not where it's pointing now.
The effect on the boat is IDENTICAL to what happens to the hose. Of course
steering by hand you tend to anticipate the "direction of thrust" & can
counteract BEFORE it happens. (if you are on the ball)
The auto pilot only reacts after it is determined that it is offcourse &
also off by a certain amount off course. In other words, much too late.
There might be a brand that can be set with quicker react time or something,
but I'm not sure.
I guess after all is said & done that if you got given one for Chrissy, then
I'd still put it on your boat. Just don't expect it to go "as the crow
flies" as us Aussies say.
BruceM


"Larry" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 19:31:07 +1030, BruceM wrote:

I would say it is impractable.
Chap has an auto-pilot here in Sth Aust on a 38footer and believe me it
is
the worst boat in the fleet. The boat has the nickname of "drunkboat".
Firstly, those jets are OK for 18 footers going like a bat-out-of-hell
up a
fast flowing river & doing spin-outs in their own length like in NZ
tourist
fjiords.
At 18 to 25 knots they just wander all over the place. Maybe if you had
a
full length keel or something it might help.
"drunkboat" has nearly been spun that many times in a big following sea
that
most won't go out with him if there are more than a metre seas running.
Like
I said, on a 45MPH boat on a fresh water lake.......... no worries.
BruceM

A few years ago I was on a short cruise in a 44' mv in Bermuda. It was
equipped with an autopilot - a Raymarine, I think. We were in fairly
light
seas, but it handled really well. (the Capt. let me take the wheel for a
while) Of course since there wasn't much of a sea, that might have been
the reason.

My very limited understanding of autopilots is that they have to be
matched
to the boat. The critical parameter is something I'd call "damping" - how
much rudder is applied for a given deviation and how much rudder behavior
is anticipated. Another factor might be whether the reference is a
fluxgate compass or a NEMA stream from a GPS.

Do you know much about the "drunkboat"? Was it a do-it-yourself or
professional installation? What equipment?

As I said earlier, this might be a futile exercise - it appears that
nobody
has even tried it.

I don't tend towards going like a bat out of hell! If I lived closer to a
large body of water, I'd probably have a nice sailboat in the 30 - 40'
range, but they don't trailer very well among the lakes, which, as I said,
can be shallow...

Thanks for your comments
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com

my promblems setting up an Autopilot to my 10foot tube tender was the
compass.
the ractions of the compass where to worse to use it.
The semiregide inflatable with 40HP Johnsen is rigged with a hydraulik
steering system and the hydraulik pump works fine.
when the boot hurts in the sea my small compass ist circeling and the
fluxgate of the autopilot do not deliver usefull data sets.
The Autopilot ill tried was a small DANAHELM unit the first fluxgate has
aircoils and the second was oil filled. The idear adapting NMEA Data from a
GPS Handheld could work but the time to patch the software of the autopilot
to get it work would be to long for me.

Michael from Germany




"BruceM" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
Sorry I don't know the construction history of "drunkboat" but I'm sure
that
everything is still as it was when constructed. The problem is not so much
with the auto pilot as it is to do with the jet.
Have you ever let a high pressure hose go seen how it goes back & forth?
The effect on the last foot of hose is determined on the direction the
hose
was pointing milliseconds before, not where it's pointing now.
The effect on the boat is IDENTICAL to what happens to the hose. Of course
steering by hand you tend to anticipate the "direction of thrust" & can
counteract BEFORE it happens. (if you are on the ball)
The auto pilot only reacts after it is determined that it is offcourse &
also off by a certain amount off course. In other words, much too late.
There might be a brand that can be set with quicker react time or
something,
but I'm not sure.
I guess after all is said & done that if you got given one for Chrissy,
then
I'd still put it on your boat. Just don't expect it to go "as the crow
flies" as us Aussies say.
BruceM


"Larry" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 19:31:07 +1030, BruceM wrote:

I would say it is impractable.
Chap has an auto-pilot here in Sth Aust on a 38footer and believe me
it
is
the worst boat in the fleet. The boat has the nickname of "drunkboat".
Firstly, those jets are OK for 18 footers going like a bat-out-of-hell
up a
fast flowing river & doing spin-outs in their own length like in NZ
tourist
fjiords.
At 18 to 25 knots they just wander all over the place. Maybe if you
had
a
full length keel or something it might help.
"drunkboat" has nearly been spun that many times in a big following
sea
that
most won't go out with him if there are more than a metre seas
running.
Like
I said, on a 45MPH boat on a fresh water lake.......... no worries.
BruceM

A few years ago I was on a short cruise in a 44' mv in Bermuda. It was
equipped with an autopilot - a Raymarine, I think. We were in fairly
light
seas, but it handled really well. (the Capt. let me take the wheel for
a
while) Of course since there wasn't much of a sea, that might have been
the reason.

My very limited understanding of autopilots is that they have to be
matched
to the boat. The critical parameter is something I'd call "damping" -
how
much rudder is applied for a given deviation and how much rudder
behavior
is anticipated. Another factor might be whether the reference is a
fluxgate compass or a NEMA stream from a GPS.

Do you know much about the "drunkboat"? Was it a do-it-yourself or
professional installation? What equipment?

As I said earlier, this might be a futile exercise - it appears that
nobody
has even tried it.

I don't tend towards going like a bat out of hell! If I lived closer to
a
large body of water, I'd probably have a nice sailboat in the 30 - 40'
range, but they don't trailer very well among the lakes, which, as I
said,
can be shallow...

Thanks for your comments
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com

On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 09:49:02 +1030, BruceM wrote:

Sorry I don't know the construction history of "drunkboat" but I'm sure that
everything is still as it was when constructed. The problem is not so much
with the auto pilot as it is to do with the jet.
Have you ever let a high pressure hose go seen how it goes back & forth?
The effect on the last foot of hose is determined on the direction the hose
was pointing milliseconds before, not where it's pointing now.
The effect on the boat is IDENTICAL to what happens to the hose. Of course
steering by hand you tend to anticipate the "direction of thrust" & can
counteract BEFORE it happens. (if you are on the ball)
The auto pilot only reacts after it is determined that it is offcourse &
also off by a certain amount off course. In other words, much too late.
There might be a brand that can be set with quicker react time or something,
but I'm not sure.
I guess after all is said & done that if you got given one for Chrissy, then
I'd still put it on your boat. Just don't expect it to go "as the crow
flies" as us Aussies say.
BruceM

Thanks, Bruce,

I recall from years ago that handling large craft was very much the same
thing: you applied rudder and the reaction was delayed. Stopping was
similar - you approached slowly and with caution and reversed engines well
before you wanted to stop. All of this is what I generically call
"damping" - anticipation of the effect and a delayed reaction to change.
Now my experience with autopilots is practically nil - the only time I used
one was very brief and basically it just kept the boat on course. I had
hoped that when you set up an autopilot, that you could trim the amount of
steerage. Are you saying that you can't?

Best,
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com