"Glenn Ashmore" wrote

Doug Dotson wrote:
..... Personally, I think the code should stay.

I am a bit worried about the bands going the way of CB ... I would like
to see
the writtens get a lot tougher ....

It's inevatable because of technology. One had to know Morse to be a ham
"back when", not because of FCC rules but because it was the only reliable
way to communicate. The rules merely reflected that technical reality. That
is no longer true today so requiring Morse makes about as much sense as
requiring visitors to Yellowstone Park to demo proficiency with flint and
steel before being allowed to see Old Faithful.

The same goes for the electronic part of the written tests. It was essential
for hams to know enough to stay out of trouble when everybody built their
own rigs, but that day is long gone. Everybody is an "appliance ham" because
it is too expensive to home brew. This means that written tests should
emphasize good operating techniques which means a lot of rote memorization.
You don't "understand" band limits in the same way we had to "understand"
how vacuum tubes and transistors worked - you just memorize them. In a way,
that makes the tests harder. I didn't need to study before aceing my
general exam 'cuz I could already draw Hartley and Colpitts oscillators but
I'll have to hit the books to pass my Extra cuz it's all memorization.

73, K3DWW

Comments below.

Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

"Vito" wrote in message
...
"Glenn Ashmore" wrote

Doug Dotson wrote:
..... Personally, I think the code should stay.

I am a bit worried about the bands going the way of CB ... I would like
to see
the writtens get a lot tougher ....

It's inevatable because of technology. One had to know Morse to be a ham
"back when", not because of FCC rules but because it was the only reliable
way to communicate. The rules merely reflected that technical reality.

I think CW is still more reliable than phone, but certainly not more
effiecient nor is it more practical.

That
is no longer true today so requiring Morse makes about as much sense as
requiring visitors to Yellowstone Park to demo proficiency with flint and
steel before being allowed to see Old Faithful.

Not sure that being able to build a fire is a prerequisite to looking
at something. I agree that CW is obsolete, but your anology is a bit thin.
I wonder if when the code requirement goes away, the CW only portions
of the band will go away as well? Another poster suggested an additional
certification to operate in the CW subbands. That may be a workable
solution.


The same goes for the electronic part of the written tests. It was
essential
for hams to know enough to stay out of trouble when everybody built their
own rigs, but that day is long gone.

Some of the electronic portion is designed to make sure you don't kill
yourself. Others deal with not interfering with other services.

Everybody is an "appliance ham" because
it is too expensive to home brew.

Expense isn't the issue. Many hams these days just don't posess the
skills to homebrew. Homebrewing was just one aspect of the hobby.
Now days, instant gratification is the controlling factor.

This means that written tests should
emphasize good operating techniques which means a lot of rote
memorization.
You don't "understand" band limits in the same way we had to "understand"
how vacuum tubes and transistors worked - you just memorize them. In a
way,
that makes the tests harder. I didn't need to study before aceing my
general exam 'cuz I could already draw Hartley and Colpitts oscillators
but
I'll have to hit the books to pass my Extra cuz it's all memorization.

I would argue that drawing a schematic for an oscillator is pretty much
rote memorization. 4 years ago when I took my Extra written, it was
certainly not mostly memorization unless you mean memorizing the
test bank. I found it easier to learn the theory. The impedance calculations
and various other items did take some effort to learn.

73, K3DWW

"Doug Dotson" wrote
"Vito" wrote

It's inevatable because of technology. One had to know Morse to be a ham
"back when", not because of FCC rules but because it was the only
reliable
way to communicate. The rules merely reflected that technical reality.

I think CW is still more reliable than phone, ....

CW, yes, Morse (a form of CW) no. "Tap code" is better because it is easier
to cypher & decypher and most important requires only "dots" vs "dits" and
"daws". Simply write the alphabet in a 5 by 5 matrix, leaving out "K"
(substitute a "C"). "A" is dot-dot. "C" is dot---dot-dot-dot. "N" is
dot-dot-dot --- dot-dot-dot, et cetera. Easy to send with a hammer or
whatever you have. To decode just right what you hear then turn to your
matrix: 2/1, 4/5, 1/3, 5/3, 4/5 .... (c:

I wonder if when the code requirement goes away, the CW only portions
of the band will go away as well?

They certainly should! If Morse is so much more reliable at getting messages
through, as every ham believes as fervently as Billy Graham believes in God,
then why do we need special bands to protect CW from "less reliable" modes?
To protect selfish bad-fist rag chews from interference, that's why.


Some of the electronic portion is designed to make sure you don't kill
yourself. Others deal with not interfering with other services.

That *was* absolutely true back when we built our own gear, but one needs no
knowledge of electronics to use, say, an Icom 706 with an automatic antenna
tuner.

Everybody is an "appliance ham" because
it is too expensive to home brew.

Expense isn't the issue. Many hams these days just don't posess the
skills to homebrew. Homebrewing was just one aspect of the hobby.
Now days, instant gratification is the controlling factor.

Expense is not the issue?? My Yaesu 840 cost $500 new. I could have bought a
kit that's not as good for $1250. Sorry, but I'm not so well-off that $750
isn't important. But you are certainly right about the lack of skills. I
don't know a single ham who has the equipment needed to micro-position chip
componants then wave solder them, let alone the skills to use such
equipments - including yours truly. I guess they're all into instant
gratification.

IMHO homebrewing, not Morse, seperated us from the instant gratification
crowd on 11 meters. Nobody morns it's passing more than I. But it's gone the
way of the horse and buggy and vacuum tube and the Amateur Service must
adapt to that fact. I enjoyed hopped-up Fords and Chevys with hemi's and
22-cent gasoline but not any more.


I would argue that drawing a schematic for an oscillator is pretty much
rote memorization. ..... The impedance calculations
and various other items did take some effort to learn.

By that definition, all learning is rote memorization, especially
mathematical calculations (equations). More to the point, all are available
in reference books so why bother to memorize them, let alone test to be sure
one has memorized them before allowing that person to talk on a radio that
is, after all, little more complicated than a CB?

Even with off-the-shelf radios, some electronic theory
is necessary to use them properly and effectively. For example,
how does one use the IF Shift control? Know how a receiver
works allows one to use this feature better. There are many
such example. Antenna tuning, notch filters, SSB filters, etc.

More below.

Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

"Vito" wrote in message
...
"Doug Dotson" wrote
"Vito" wrote

It's inevatable because of technology. One had to know Morse to be a
ham
"back when", not because of FCC rules but because it was the only
reliable
way to communicate. The rules merely reflected that technical
reality.

I think CW is still more reliable than phone, ....

CW, yes, Morse (a form of CW) no. "Tap code" is better because it is
easier
to cypher & decypher and most important requires only "dots" vs "dits" and
"daws". Simply write the alphabet in a 5 by 5 matrix, leaving out "K"
(substitute a "C"). "A" is dot-dot. "C" is dot---dot-dot-dot. "N" is
dot-dot-dot --- dot-dot-dot, et cetera. Easy to send with a hammer or
whatever you have. To decode just right what you hear then turn to your
matrix: 2/1, 4/5, 1/3, 5/3, 4/5 .... (c:

Not a clue what you are talking about here. Generally CW is short speak
for Morse code although one is an encoding scheme and other is a
emission type.

I wonder if when the code requirement goes away, the CW only portions
of the band will go away as well?

They certainly should! If Morse is so much more reliable at getting
messages
through, as every ham believes as fervently as Billy Graham believes in
God,
then why do we need special bands to protect CW from "less reliable"
modes?
To protect selfish bad-fist rag chews from interference, that's why.

The CW portions of the bands are pretty narrow. Wideband traffic
just chews up too much of the designated band segments.


Some of the electronic portion is designed to make sure you don't kill
yourself. Others deal with not interfering with other services.

That *was* absolutely true back when we built our own gear, but one needs
no
knowledge of electronics to use, say, an Icom 706 with an automatic
antenna
tuner.

I don't think so. I have gotten zapped several times by off the shelf rigs.
Might
be useful to know why you got that nasty RF burn.

Everybody is an "appliance ham" because
it is too expensive to home brew.

Expense isn't the issue. Many hams these days just don't posess the
skills to homebrew. Homebrewing was just one aspect of the hobby.
Now days, instant gratification is the controlling factor.

Expense is not the issue?? My Yaesu 840 cost $500 new. I could have bought
a
kit that's not as good for $1250. Sorry, but I'm not so well-off that
$750
isn't important. But you are certainly right about the lack of skills. I
don't know a single ham who has the equipment needed to micro-position
chip
componants then wave solder them, let alone the skills to use such
equipments - including yours truly. I guess they're all into instant
gratification.

Putting together a kit is not homebrewing in the normal sense. I routinely
solder very small surface mount chips onto boards. It can be done very
easily with solder paste and a toaster oven. The touching up with desolder
braid and a small tipped iron.

IMHO homebrewing, not Morse, seperated us from the instant gratification
crowd on 11 meters. Nobody morns it's passing more than I. But it's gone
the
way of the horse and buggy and vacuum tube and the Amateur Service must
adapt to that fact. I enjoyed hopped-up Fords and Chevys with hemi's and
22-cent gasoline but not any more.


I would argue that drawing a schematic for an oscillator is pretty much
rote memorization. ..... The impedance calculations
and various other items did take some effort to learn.

By that definition, all learning is rote memorization, especially
mathematical calculations (equations). More to the point, all are
available
in reference books so why bother to memorize them, let alone test to be
sure
one has memorized them before allowing that person to talk on a radio that
is, after all, little more complicated than a CB?

Knowing a formula and how to apply it are different things. When I was
in college my physics instructor allowed us to bring a sheet with any
formulas we wanted into an exam. Some folks still failed the exam
though.

I thought the US got rid of code but Canada still had it?

I've got my Basic and Advanced qualification but like the OP I found morse
hard to sit and learn.
I admit I've let this hobby slip to the side, and so haven't been paying
attention to new regs....but if Canada doesn't have morse anymore...then
does my Advanced license push me in to all bands? As it is, my advanced
license is little different than the basic license, except I can tx over 1Kw
and work on transmitters ?...


"Vito" wrote in message
...
"Michael Sutton" wrote
"Doug Dotson" wrote
It is true that the code requirement is part of international treaty.

Not since the last (ITU?) convention just last year. It was dropped and
several countries (Japan & Canada?) quit code testing. The US FCC still
requires 5 wpm for General and Extra (ie, to use HF) but ARRL has
petitioned
FCC to drop it. Don't hold your breath - FCC is OK but is still an
American
bureaucracy so I'm sure anyone here can learn 5 wpm faster than it'll act
on
the petition.

So if you already have your code from Novice at 5wpm, .....

Volunteer Examiners will give you credit if you have proof you passed it -
eg if you have a Novice or a Tech license dated before the advent of
no-code
tech. In fact those who did code + novice written to become Novices, then
took the General written exam to become Techs can apply to get
grandfathered
to General.

BTW, my child bride heads a W5YI VE team that admin's tests every other
month in Fredricksburg VA. If some of you want to take an exam in VA's
No.Neck or Middle Peninsula area she could prolly help.

K3DWW

The US currently has 3 license classes. "Technician" provides all
privileges above 50 MHz and requires no code test. "General" and "Extra"
allow HF operations but require 5 WPM Morse Code.

I don't know about Canada.

"SB" wrote

I thought the US got rid of code but Canada still had it?

Unfortunately Canada is still in the dark ages. According to the Industry
Canada web site we currently have 3 classes:

Basic, which has no code requirement but only allows use of frequencies
above 30 MHz,
Morse Code, which allows use of all ham frequencies, and
Advanced, which allows use of more power and home built transmitters
There is a PDF document for download at
http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/inter.../sf01008e.html

I'm sure we will not drop the code requirement until the US does.

"Stan Winikoff" wrote in message
om...
I have been told that the Morse Code requirement for a Ham license is
required by international treaty. Others have said the requirement
will soon go by the wayside. I find the written and theory parts of
the Ham exam easy but code is an insurmountable obsticle for me. Any
chance that code will be dropped soon as a requirement for anything
more than a Novice license.

well, I wouldn't say we're in the dark ages....we did drop the 12wpm
requirement (except for testers).

I think there should be a qualification for using code....sure, call it a
boy scout badge type thing....but I also think there should be something for
digital tx and whatever else...

I just wish they didn't withhold so much of the band JUST because of
morse....

I've seen independence day....and how morse saved the day!! I think it
should stay to SOME degree!!



"Gordon Wedman" wrote in message
news:s9rqc.8762$9P6.6527@clgrps12...
Unfortunately Canada is still in the dark ages. According to the Industry
Canada web site we currently have 3 classes:

Basic, which has no code requirement but only allows use of frequencies
above 30 MHz,
Morse Code, which allows use of all ham frequencies, and
Advanced, which allows use of more power and home built transmitters
There is a PDF document for download at
http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/inter.../sf01008e.html

I'm sure we will not drop the code requirement until the US does.

"Stan Winikoff" wrote in message
om...
I have been told that the Morse Code requirement for a Ham license is
required by international treaty. Others have said the requirement
will soon go by the wayside. I find the written and theory parts of
the Ham exam easy but code is an insurmountable obsticle for me. Any
chance that code will be dropped soon as a requirement for anything
more than a Novice license.

The CW portions of the bands is a fairly small sliver. I'm sure they
will be released to general use when the code requirement goes
away though.

Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

"SB" wrote in message
. cable.rogers.com...
well, I wouldn't say we're in the dark ages....we did drop the 12wpm
requirement (except for testers).

I think there should be a qualification for using code....sure, call it a
boy scout badge type thing....but I also think there should be something
for
digital tx and whatever else...

I just wish they didn't withhold so much of the band JUST because of
morse....

I've seen independence day....and how morse saved the day!! I think it
should stay to SOME degree!!



"Gordon Wedman" wrote in message
news:s9rqc.8762$9P6.6527@clgrps12...
Unfortunately Canada is still in the dark ages. According to the
Industry
Canada web site we currently have 3 classes:

Basic, which has no code requirement but only allows use of frequencies
above 30 MHz,
Morse Code, which allows use of all ham frequencies, and
Advanced, which allows use of more power and home built transmitters
There is a PDF document for download at
http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/inter.../sf01008e.html

I'm sure we will not drop the code requirement until the US does.

"Stan Winikoff" wrote in message
om...
I have been told that the Morse Code requirement for a Ham license is
required by international treaty. Others have said the requirement
will soon go by the wayside. I find the written and theory parts of
the Ham exam easy but code is an insurmountable obsticle for me. Any
chance that code will be dropped soon as a requirement for anything
more than a Novice license.

it IS a small portion....but it's the fun portion isn't it?! LF for those
long tx's?
"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
The CW portions of the bands is a fairly small sliver. I'm sure they
will be released to general use when the code requirement goes
away though.

Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

"SB" wrote in message
. cable.rogers.com...
well, I wouldn't say we're in the dark ages....we did drop the 12wpm
requirement (except for testers).

I think there should be a qualification for using code....sure, call it
a
boy scout badge type thing....but I also think there should be something
for
digital tx and whatever else...

I just wish they didn't withhold so much of the band JUST because of
morse....

I've seen independence day....and how morse saved the day!! I think it
should stay to SOME degree!!



"Gordon Wedman" wrote in message
news:s9rqc.8762$9P6.6527@clgrps12...
Unfortunately Canada is still in the dark ages. According to the
Industry
Canada web site we currently have 3 classes:

Basic, which has no code requirement but only allows use of
frequencies
above 30 MHz,
Morse Code, which allows use of all ham frequencies, and
Advanced, which allows use of more power and home built transmitters
There is a PDF document for download at
http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/inter.../sf01008e.html

I'm sure we will not drop the code requirement until the US does.

"Stan Winikoff" wrote in message
om...
I have been told that the Morse Code requirement for a Ham license
is
required by international treaty. Others have said the requirement
will soon go by the wayside. I find the written and theory parts of
the Ham exam easy but code is an insurmountable obsticle for me. Any
chance that code will be dropped soon as a requirement for anything
more than a Novice license.