Since Larry seems to be the self appointed expert on this mode, I would like
to know how PSK31 compares CLOVER for weak signal digital modes?
73 Doug K7ABX

"Doug" wrote in
hlink.net:

Since Larry seems to be the self appointed expert on this mode, I
would like to know how PSK31 compares CLOVER for weak signal digital
modes? 73 Doug K7ABX


Can't say. I never ran Clover because it was overpriced and proprietary.
I've never been crazy about overpriced and proprietary.

One fault of PSK31 is its NOT an error-checking mode grinding the
transmitter on and off looking for an ACK response. It's more like FEC,
but I don't know what it's FEC capabilities are to correct errors. I think
Clover is also error correcting by grinding away until the data packet gets
a successful ACK, isn't it? Not in the same league.

PSK31 simply copies when I can't even hear the station its copying in all
the noise. It's not meant for data transfer, just text between stations in
an open system. There is no "connected" mode, like packet or SITOR or
PACTOR or such.

Larry W4CSC

PSK31 is more of a conversational mode like CW or RTTY. I'm
not sure it has any error correcting/retry at all. It just has a very
good ability to pick a signal out of the noise. I wonder how you
QSO with a station you can't hear? How do you find it?

Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
"Doug" wrote in
hlink.net:

Since Larry seems to be the self appointed expert on this mode, I
would like to know how PSK31 compares CLOVER for weak signal digital
modes? 73 Doug K7ABX


Can't say. I never ran Clover because it was overpriced and proprietary.
I've never been crazy about overpriced and proprietary.

One fault of PSK31 is its NOT an error-checking mode grinding the
transmitter on and off looking for an ACK response. It's more like FEC,
but I don't know what it's FEC capabilities are to correct errors. I
think
Clover is also error correcting by grinding away until the data packet
gets
a successful ACK, isn't it? Not in the same league.

PSK31 simply copies when I can't even hear the station its copying in all
the noise. It's not meant for data transfer, just text between stations
in
an open system. There is no "connected" mode, like packet or SITOR or
PACTOR or such.

Larry W4CSC

Simple to find - you get some of the free software that has a "waterfall"
graph that shows the bandwidth from 100 hz to 3Khz and look for the sound
"trails" - they are very distinctive - you can have multiple signals in a 3
Khz bandwidth - easy to use - look for psk31 software - most is free and
works thru your soundcard.

Bob, AK6R
Swell Dancer, Catalina 42
Oceanside, CA

"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
PSK31 is more of a conversational mode like CW or RTTY. I'm
not sure it has any error correcting/retry at all. It just has a very
good ability to pick a signal out of the noise. I wonder how you
QSO with a station you can't hear? How do you find it?

Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
"Doug" wrote in
hlink.net:

Since Larry seems to be the self appointed expert on this mode, I
would like to know how PSK31 compares CLOVER for weak signal digital
modes? 73 Doug K7ABX


Can't say. I never ran Clover because it was overpriced and
proprietary.
I've never been crazy about overpriced and proprietary.

One fault of PSK31 is its NOT an error-checking mode grinding the
transmitter on and off looking for an ACK response. It's more like FEC,
but I don't know what it's FEC capabilities are to correct errors. I
think
Clover is also error correcting by grinding away until the data packet
gets
a successful ACK, isn't it? Not in the same league.

PSK31 simply copies when I can't even hear the station its copying in
all
the noise. It's not meant for data transfer, just text between stations
in
an open system. There is no "connected" mode, like packet or SITOR or
PACTOR or such.

Larry W4CSC

"Larry W4CSC" wrote .

One fault of PSK31 is its NOT an error-checking mode grinding the
transmitter on and off looking for an ACK response.

Actually, error correction is done after the data is received using info
added before it is transmitted, so it shouldn't be too hard for some
enterprising SW geek to come up with an EC add-on for PSK31. On the
transmit end the EC SW would simply intercept the keyboard output, put it
into ID'd 'packets' with parity/other checks*, then send it on to the PSK31
SW input, making the PSK SW think is was 'hearing' the keyboard. On the
reeive end it would intercept the PSK SW's output and do the parity/other
checks, make corrections*, then either display the info or send back a ID'd
'NAK' telling the xmtr to repeat the packet.

The xmit PC would have to store all the packets comprising a transmission
until it got an "over" inication from the kbd but that's be no sweat for
modern PCs with 40+ GByte HDs.

Think of it as packet adapted to modern PC technology or "packet via PSK31".

*think "Hamming".

The ham who invented CLOVER tried to get all the manufacturers interested in
the technology. Kantronics, MFJ, etc. No interest until he approached HAL. I
have heard he GAVE the technology to them. The MARS ops seem to love it, but
it is too pricey for me.
73
Doug

"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
"Doug" wrote in
hlink.net:

Since Larry seems to be the self appointed expert on this mode, I
would like to know how PSK31 compares CLOVER for weak signal digital
modes? 73 Doug K7ABX


Can't say. I never ran Clover because it was overpriced and proprietary.
I've never been crazy about overpriced and proprietary.

One fault of PSK31 is its NOT an error-checking mode grinding the
transmitter on and off looking for an ACK response. It's more like FEC,
but I don't know what it's FEC capabilities are to correct errors. I
think
Clover is also error correcting by grinding away until the data packet
gets
a successful ACK, isn't it? Not in the same league.

PSK31 simply copies when I can't even hear the station its copying in all
the noise. It's not meant for data transfer, just text between stations
in
an open system. There is no "connected" mode, like packet or SITOR or
PACTOR or such.

Larry W4CSC

"Doug Dotson" wrote in
:

PSK31 is more of a conversational mode like CW or RTTY. I'm
not sure it has any error correcting/retry at all. It just has a very
good ability to pick a signal out of the noise. I wonder how you
QSO with a station you can't hear? How do you find it?


Finding the QSO is easy. All stations use synthesized rigs on USB with a
carrier freq of 14.070 (or other standardized freq set for other bands).
The software (WinWarbler in my case) listens to the entire 3 Khz bandwidth
and generates a "waterfall" spectrum display that is a history for about a
minute down the waterfall. Stations you can or cannot hear, create a two-
freq track down the waterfall. You simply point your mouse at it and
"click" to set the software to that audio frequency. The software has AFC
that locks onto the faintly-traced signal and starts printing on one of the
three "channels" it is copying, simultaneously. You can tell when the
other guy stops sending because his trace stops and you click TX to start
sending what you've already loaded into your buffer. PSK31 is faster than
you can type, by quite a margin even for a good typist, so it will soon
catch up to what you're typing now. Unlike packet, however, it doesn't get
"stuck" on trying to send a packet, and will miss the occasional letter on
bad fading. There has got to be some error-correcting FEC for it to work
THIS good.

As your speaker has many stations warbling away on different audio freqs of
the 14.070 reference frequency, you might as well turn it off as it will
just drive you crazy on the weekends when it's busy. As each QSO only
occupies 31 Hz of bandwidth, there's plenty of room in 3 Khz for everyone
with big spaces in between. Tuning in one station is real easy, even for
the deaf!

Larry W4CSC

"Doug" wrote in
nk.net:

The ham who invented CLOVER tried to get all the manufacturers
interested in the technology. Kantronics, MFJ, etc. No interest until
he approached HAL. I have heard he GAVE the technology to them. The
MARS ops seem to love it, but it is too pricey for me.
73
Doug

Why does it figure that MARS would use an expensive, proprietary
technology.....(c;

KUHL! I'll check it out!

Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
"Doug Dotson" wrote in
:

PSK31 is more of a conversational mode like CW or RTTY. I'm
not sure it has any error correcting/retry at all. It just has a very
good ability to pick a signal out of the noise. I wonder how you
QSO with a station you can't hear? How do you find it?


Finding the QSO is easy. All stations use synthesized rigs on USB with a
carrier freq of 14.070 (or other standardized freq set for other bands).
The software (WinWarbler in my case) listens to the entire 3 Khz bandwidth
and generates a "waterfall" spectrum display that is a history for about a
minute down the waterfall. Stations you can or cannot hear, create a two-
freq track down the waterfall. You simply point your mouse at it and
"click" to set the software to that audio frequency. The software has AFC
that locks onto the faintly-traced signal and starts printing on one of
the
three "channels" it is copying, simultaneously. You can tell when the
other guy stops sending because his trace stops and you click TX to start
sending what you've already loaded into your buffer. PSK31 is faster than
you can type, by quite a margin even for a good typist, so it will soon
catch up to what you're typing now. Unlike packet, however, it doesn't
get
"stuck" on trying to send a packet, and will miss the occasional letter on
bad fading. There has got to be some error-correcting FEC for it to work
THIS good.

As your speaker has many stations warbling away on different audio freqs
of
the 14.070 reference frequency, you might as well turn it off as it will
just drive you crazy on the weekends when it's busy. As each QSO only
occupies 31 Hz of bandwidth, there's plenty of room in 3 Khz for everyone
with big spaces in between. Tuning in one station is real easy, even for
the deaf!

Larry W4CSC