Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
#21
|
|||
|
|||
Modifying Icom IC-M800
"Larry W4CSC" wrote "Jack Painter" wrote in I believe the thread has been dealing only with HF, where a license is required. I operate under NTIA not FCC so I haven't had that issue come up...but Larry certainly would on a sail yacht with licensed equipment. I can say that the equipment is certainly different where HF is concerned, but not as much fun as pinging your buddy's GPS with your position and channel on VHF-DSC. Jack I was referring to the HF GMDSS system, which goes along with the Icom M800 HF/SSB rig of this thread, although it does not have GMDSS..... NOT UNLICENSED VHF.... To operate HF GMDSS aboard your sailboat, a GMDSS OPERATORS license IS required, no matter what the Waste Marine salesman told you... Larry, it's a confusing matter, and I don't want in the middle of something I cannot offer evidence for. So I will just add that when Rick quoted or refeernced the NavCenter pages, I will caution that we have not done a bang-up job of maintainng that website. I have had to clairify boater's questions there about watchstanding before as it is very confusing in some areas. Like this (NavCenter) For MF Radios the watch is maintained on 2182 kHz and for MF-DSC radios on 2187.5 kHz. There are similar requirements that voluntary vessels with HF-DSC radios and Inmarsat Satellite terminals cruise with the radios turned on and watching the emergency channels -- Realize that 5 years after that was published, we STILL don't have a Sea Area A-2 yet! And we do a somewhat less than credible job of monitoring 2182 from lousy whips antennas at Groups. And where I work, we missed the 2187.5 GMDSS distress call sent by the exploded T/V Bow Mariner some 80 miles away from our main DSC antenna.. So if it's an FCC rule we are talking about, then I would recommend avoiding the USCG websites as a source of conclusive information. We'll try to answer questions about our own rules, not the FCC's thank you. Best, jack |
#22
|
|||
|
|||
Modifying Icom IC-M800
Rick wrote in
ink.net: Jack Painter wrote: I believe the thread has been dealing only with HF, where a license is required. I operate under NTIA not FCC so I haven't had that issue come up...but Larry certainly would on a sail yacht with licensed equipment. I can say that the equipment is certainly different where HF is concerned, but not as much fun as pinging your buddy's GPS with your position and channel on VHF-DSC. There is no requirement for a commercial radio operator's license to carry or use an HF or a VHF set on a US recreational vessel. In the US a restricted radio operator's permit and a ship station license is all that is required to operate HF. If the recreational vessel makes no international voyages then no license of any sort is required for VHF/DSC installations or use. Like I wrote earlier, just because a radio incorporates one of the features that comprise part of a GMDSS suite does not mean that the operator hold a GMDSS license. Rick The use of ANY HF equipment aboard ANY recreational boat DOES require a Ship Station License, even if it's in a backyard pond....because the HF station is INTERNATIONAL on any channel, as required by ITU. http://wireless.fcc.gov/marine/gmdss.html http://wireless.fcc.gov/marine/fctsht14.html Another note of interest from this website: "If your vessel requires licensing by the FCC after you have obtained an MMSI from BoatUS, MariTEL or Sea Tow Service that MMSI cannot be used during the application/licensing process when you file FCC Form 159 and 605 with the FCC. MMSIs issued by other authorized entities are valid only for ship stations that do not have FCC-issued licenses. Since the ULS will not accept the MMSI that was issued by another entity, you should not enter anything in item 10 on FCC Form 605, Schedule B. Leave this field blank and the FCC will issue you a new MMSI." Boat/US MMSIs are useless with FCC licensed stations.....(sigh) Also from this fctsht14 website is an answer about your unlicensed VHF walkie talkie being used as a CB on the dock, home, car, etc.: "MAY I USE MY HAND-HELD MARINE VHF RADIO ON LAND? You must have a special license, called a marine utility station license, to operate a hand-held marine radio from land -- a ship station license IS NOT sufficient. You may apply for this license by filing FCC Form 601 with the FCC. To be eligible for a marine utility station license, you must generally provide some sort of service to ships or have control over a bridge or waterway. Additionally, you must show a need to communicate using hand-held portable equipment from both a ship and from coast locations. Each unit must be capable of operation while being hand-carried by an individual. The station operates under the rules applicable to ship stations when the unit is aboard a ship, and under the rules applicable to private coast stations when the unit is on land." You CANNOT, legally, call your boat from your VHF marine radio on the beach. You don't have a "Marine Utility License".... As to the rules about the Commercial Operator's Licenses (GROL with GMDSS operator's endorsement), the rules are on: http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/w...7cfr13_00.html You'll need, also, a copy of the maritime mobile radio service rules: http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/w...7cfr80_00.html Voluntary ship license operators under 400 W PEP (all the SSB radios at 150W PEP you guys have), need Restricted Radio Telephone Operator Permits to operate VOICE on HF. http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/get- cfr.cgi?TITLE=47&PART=80&SECTION=165&YEAR=2000&TYP E=TEXT Now......about the GMDSS operator on your LICENSED SHIP STATION..... http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/get- cfr.cgi?TITLE=47&PART=80&SECTION=1073&YEAR=2000&TY PE=TEXT IT says, and I quote: "[Code of Federal Regulations] [Title 47, Volume 5, Parts 80 to End] [Revised as of October 1, 2000] From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access [CITE: 47CFR80.1073] [Page 170-171] TITLE 47--TELECOMMUNICATION COMMISSION (CONTINUED) PART 80--STATIONS IN THE MARITIME SERVICES--Table of Contents Subpart W--Global Maritime Distress and Safety System (GMDSS) Sec. 80.1073 Radio operator requirements for ship stations. (a) Ships must carry at least two persons holding GMDSS Radio Operator's Licenses as specified in Sec. 13.2 of this chapter for distress and safety radiocommunications purposes. The GMDSS Radio Operator's License qualifies personnel as GMDSS radio operator for the purposes of operating GMDSS radio installation, including basic equipment adjustments as denoted in knowledge requirements specified in Sec. 13.21 of this chapter. (1) One of the qualified GMDSS radio operators must be designated to have [[Page 171]] primary responsiblility for radiocommunications during distress incidents. (2) A second qualified GMDSS radio operator must be designated as backup for distress and safety radiocommunications. (b) A qualified GMDSS radio operator, and a qualified backup, as specified in paragraph (a) of this section must be: (1) Available to act as the dedicated radio operator in cases of distress as described in Sec. 80.1109(a); (2) Designated to perform as part of normal routine each of the applicable communications described in Sec. 80.1109(b); (3) Responsible for selecting HF DSC guard channels and receiving scheduled maritime safety information broadcasts; (4) Designated to perform communications described in Sec. 80.1109(c); (5) Responsible for ensuring that the watches required by Sec. 80.1123 are properly maintained; and (6) Responsible for ensuring that the ship's navigation position is entered, either manually or automatically through a navigation receiver, into all installed DSC equipment at least every four hours while the ship is underway." Notice that NO PLEASURE BOAT exemptions of any kind exist for the casual captain with an HF/SSB radio that has GMDSS/DSC radio equipment on the HF bands (below 30 Mhz) with a Ship License, which is MANDATORY for every boat with HF/SSB marine band equipment. 'Tis not to poopoo, "Oh, we don't need that because we are a little sailboat with a GMDSS-equipped HF/SSB radio." By international agreement, and ITU regulations, ALL GMDSS-EQUIPPED HF/SSB radios are REQUIRED to have, not one, but TWO LICENSED GMDSS OPERATORS aboard, one of which is, and I quote once again, "Available to act as the dedicated radio operator in cases of distress as described in Sec. 80.1109(a)" No mention in the GMDSS regulations says anything about a casual "voluntary ship" (your sailboat) being exempt that I can find. Please quote it if you find it to enlighten us all. In the GMDSS question section, it says: "Can I use my current FCC operator license aboard GMDSS ships? No. Any person who wants to become a GMDSS radio operator must pass a new examination to receive the GMDSS license." This would, also, include the yachtie with a Restricted Radio Telephone Operator's Permit. GMDSS must NOT be operated by anyone UNTIL he has taken the element exams for GMDSS operator and has that license in his hands. Conclusion - Unless you are willing to go to this extreme, do NOT buy an HF/SSB radio with GMDSS/DSC capabilities for your yacht. You cannot operate it until two of you have GMDSS Operator Licenses. Larry Still interested in getting your GMDSS Operator's License? It's not rocket science: http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/do.html Don't press the red button without it....(c; |
#23
|
|||
|
|||
Modifying Icom IC-M800
"Jack Painter" wrote in
news:PxKGc.8284$pY2.2932@lakeread01: Larry, all I could find was information regarding compulsory GMDSS ships. Is there a listing you are aware of for voluntary-equipped GMDSS? HF is the issue, of course ;-) http://wireless.fcc.gov/marine/gmdss.html Jack See my long other post I just sent..... There is no differences in voluntary and compulsory ships operating GMDSS in any regulation I can find, except your voluntary ship isn't required to have it in the first place. If you want to operate it, you must comply with all the ship regulations for it....TWO licensed GMDSS ops, REDUNDANT equipment and all!! |
#24
|
|||
|
|||
Modifying Icom IC-M800
Rick wrote in
ink.net: Jack Painter wrote: Larry, all I could find was information regarding compulsory GMDSS ships. Is there a listing you are aware of for voluntary-equipped GMDSS? HF is the issue, of course ;-) Unless Larry holds, and is required to hold, a current USCG license as a merchant marine officer with an STCW certificate endorsed as a radio operator he only holds the GMDSS tickets for ego purposes. No one else needs one unless they work for a shorebased maintenance firm doing work on GMDSS equipment on ships. He obviously doesn't understand the GMDSS system concept and is posting nonsense. You are posting the nonsense. See my other post and READ THE REGS I posted there. You must NOT operate any GMDSS on a LICENSED SHIP STATION until you have the GMDSS Operator's License, even if your boat is a goddamn rowboat! You must also read the regulations to understand that you do NOT have to be a STCW radio operator to be a licensed GMDSS operator. READ THE REGS in references I posted to another responder.....it's all there. The old unionized radio operators are now a dead issue once compulsory ships get rid of their Morse equipment. Most ROs are not being renewed in their cushy union jobs. If you want reliable information that applies to you and your particular circumstances just Google "gmdss voluntary station operator license" There are plenty of pages. Here is a link that pretty much states what Larry would have known if he had any training and held the license for anything other than some kind of redneck ham radio bragging rights: http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/marcomms/gmdss/cvib-2.doc Training, Licensing and Certification The Master and all Mates on SOLAS vessels are now required to hold the FCC GMDSS Radio Operator?s License (GOC) for Sea Areas A2, A3 (Inmarsat coverage), and A4 (polar regions) or the Restricted GMDSS Radio Operator?s License (ROC) for operations in Sea Area A1. They must also hold a Coast Guard STCW 95 GMDSS endorsement. The STCW endorsement requires mandatory training and demonstrated ability to operate all GMDSS systems. Most small commercial vessels are not required to be STCW compliant, however, and are permitted to use any GMDSS equipment without mandated GMDSS training. Small commercial vessels mandated to carry radio for safety reasons are required to hold a radio station license and the appropriate operator permits. Vessels subject to the Bridge-to-Bridge act are also required to hold a radio station license. Old information. CG has turned GMDSS operator and maintainer licensing over to the FCC. There's a reference to just this point on the FCC webpages I quoted to another responder. Larry |
#25
|
|||
|
|||
Modifying Icom IC-M800
"Larry W4CSC" wrote "Jack Painter" wrote in news:PxKGc.8284$pY2.2932@lakeread01: Larry, all I could find was information regarding compulsory GMDSS ships. Is there a listing you are aware of for voluntary-equipped GMDSS? HF is the issue, of course ;-) There is no differences in voluntary and compulsory ships operating GMDSS in any regulation I can find, except your voluntary ship isn't required to have it in the first place. If you want to operate it, you must comply with all the ship regulations for it....TWO licensed GMDSS ops, REDUNDANT equipment and all!! Larry, Noting the apparent lack of exception in FCC comments or rulemaking (and they are indeed the authority on this subject, not the USCG as you pointed out), there is nonetheless an interesting comment or two by the Ret. USCG Capt, Chmn of the Implementaton Task Force at http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/marcomms/gmdss/rvib-4.doc which states in parts: GMDSS AND THE RECREATIONAL BOATER 16 May 2002 The FCC action has thus begun a very gradual shift to DSC by requiring new models of MF and VHF radios sold in the U.S. to have at least a simplified DSC capability. Recreational vessels are not required to use DSC in the MF/HF bands and may continue to use non-DSC MF radios and make voice calls on 2182 kHz if they hold the necessary Ship Station License issued by the FCC. (there's a key no-exception point - whether by omission or not, we cannot assume that no mention of license exception for GMDSS means that they might have intended one - but it MAY be included in the new no-questions-asked-all-equipment restricted operators license!) The new DSC calling identity is the nine digit Maritime Mobile Service Identity (MMSI) that is assigned by the FCC to vessels desiring or required to use DSC in the VHF, MF, and HF maritime radio bands. The way to get an MMSI number assigned is to apply to the FCC for a radio station license. Station licenses are no longer required for recreational vessels less that 65 feet in length operating on VHF exclusively in U.S. waters (another no-exception for HF GMDSS comment - looking more like they either missed the boat on this part entirely, or they never meant to exempt it. It remains confusing , which is in keeping with what I said about NavCenter et al before. Anyway, the new operator licenses do "imply" that any equipment volutarily carried (radar, HF, VHF, etc) does NOT have to be listed, therefore no license mods are required when equipment is added. THAT implies GMDSS could be part of the license-suite w/o special GMDSS quals.It is an interesting issue that salesman and yachtsman alike should be very clear on before selling owning or operating the equipment. Jack |
#26
|
|||
|
|||
GMDSS any type
"Larry W4CSC" wrote There is no differences in voluntary and compulsory ships operating GMDSS in any regulation I can find, except your voluntary ship isn't required to have it in the first place. If you want to operate it, you must comply with all the ship regulations for it....TWO licensed GMDSS ops, REDUNDANT equipment and all!! Larry and group: The same task force letter I quoted from 1992 says: http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/marcomms/gmdss/rvib-4.doc False Alerts in GMDSS Systems /cut/ Compulsory ships are required to carry certified GMDSS operators but recreational vessels are permitted to use any GMDSS system appropriate for their operations without any operator qualification. Since the large percentage of false alerts is attributed to a lack of operator competence, it is especially important that recreational boaters receive instruction in the proper operation of GMDSS equipment Looks pretty clear there - but that is not an authoritatve document of any kind, just advisory in nature by the Task Force for GMDSS Implementation. The FCC would be expected to act on those recomendations accordingly, and may or may not have done so by now. The USCG Auxiliary and US Power Squadrons are expected by this task force to develop and make instruction available on GMDSS systems for recreational vessels. Jack |
#27
|
|||
|
|||
Modifying Icom IC-M800
Larry W4CSC wrote:
There is no differences in voluntary and compulsory ships operating GMDSS in any regulation I can find, except your voluntary ship isn't required to have it in the first place. If you want to operate it, you must comply with all the ship regulations for it....TWO licensed GMDSS ops, REDUNDANT equipment and all!! I don't know what you have been smoking but you have strange ideas about radio regs on ships and pleasure boats. Do you have a GMDSS license of any sort? The FCC seems to think otherwise. Rick |
#28
|
|||
|
|||
Modifying Icom IC-M800
Larry W4CSC wrote:
You are posting the nonsense. See my other post and READ THE REGS I posted there. You must NOT operate any GMDSS on a LICENSED SHIP STATION until you have the GMDSS Operator's License, even if your boat is a goddamn rowboat! Sorry, larry, you missed again. Read the regs or talk to a West Marine salesman. They know more than you do. You must also read the regulations to understand that you do NOT have to be a STCW radio operator to be a licensed GMDSS operator. READ THE REGS in references I posted to another responder.....it's all there. If you don't sail as a licensed officer on a ship that requires a GMDSS installation by international treaty and stand a bridge watch, you do not need a GMDSS license. If you want to repair GMDSS equipment you need a maintainer's license. If you are a watchstanding officer who is required by the Coast Guard to hold a GMDSS license you must also have a GMDSS endorsement on your STCW certificate. Any fool can get a GMDSS license, very few NEED one. The old unionized radio operators are now a dead issue once compulsory ships get rid of their Morse equipment. Most ROs are not being renewed in their cushy union jobs. A little bit jealous are you? Old information. CG has turned GMDSS operator and maintainer licensing over to the FCC. There's a reference to just this point on the FCC webpages I quoted to another responder. If you knew anything about GMDSS you would know that the FCC has always handled the licensing. The CG is charge with enforcing the IMO regulations that established the GMDSS requirements for SOLAS vessels. And the FCC still doesn't seem to list you as anything other than a ham radio operator. That would explain why you seem so confused about this issue. Rick |
#29
|
|||
|
|||
Modifying Icom IC-M800
Jack Painter wrote:
Anyway, the new operator licenses do "imply" that any equipment volutarily carried (radar, HF, VHF, etc) does NOT have to be listed, therefore no license mods are required when equipment is added. THAT implies GMDSS could be part of the license-suite w/o special GMDSS quals.It is an interesting issue that salesman and yachtsman alike should be very clear on before selling owning or operating the equipment. An MMSI is an integral part of DSC and the GMDSS, it is kind of hard to work without a unique indentifier and any vessel will get one for the asking, licensed, cumpulsory, voluntary, or just a Bayliner with a VHF DSC unit on an inland lake in Kansas. It will hardly be a Global system if all vessels are not similarly equipped and any requirement for commercial licensing would negate all of the benefits of such a valuable system as GMDSS. There is no requirement by the FCC or the CG for an operator to hold an FCC license to operate GMDSS equipment on noncompulsary vessels. For vessels which are compelled by IMO regulations to carry GMDSS equipment there is a parallel requirement that watchtstanding officers aretrained and certified as GMDSS operators. That training is documented by an endorsement on the officer's STCW certificate. There are no such rules for pleasure boaters regardless of the type of equipment installed. Larry has no clue what he is talking about. The FCC, the only American authority to issue GMDSS licenses does not list him as a licensed operator other than in the amateur radio service. Rick |
#30
|
|||
|
|||
MMSI
"Rick" wrote An MMSI is an integral part of DSC and the GMDSS, it is kind of hard to work without a unique indentifier and any vessel will get one for the asking, licensed, cumpulsory, voluntary, or just a Bayliner with a VHF DSC unit on an inland lake in Kansas. It will hardly be a Global system if all vessels are not similarly equipped and any requirement for commercial licensing would negate all of the benefits of such a valuable system as GMDSS. Rick, Unfortunately, the entire database maintained by BoatUS/West etc turned out to be useless. It was a great idea and encouraged boaters to be instantly registered with an MMSI. But that database went nowhere and is of no use to a Rescue Coordination Center. I do not know what went wrong with that plan, but only the FCC issued MMSI are considered international, and we certainly can't maintain dual-systems. If a boater already has a BoatUS MMSI they should apply to the FCC for a new one. Jack |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Update on ICOM M-502 | Electronics | |||
Update on ICOM M-502 | General | |||
ICOM 802 problem solved | Electronics | |||
DAMMIT ICOM WHY SO CHEAP?!! | Cruising | |||
DAMMIT ICOM WHY SO CHEAP?!! | Electronics |