On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:42:29 +0200, "Meindert Sprang"
wrote:

I think many people don't use Linux on their boat *because* there is no
decent nav package.

=============================================

And because it's a whole new learning curve to climb, not the most
user friendly system in the world, and there's not much help
available in the world outside of technology shops. All that, plus
the lack of a standardized graphical user interface, means that its
going to be a while before Linux shows up on our laptops.

It may show up embedded in dedicated hardware however where we can't
see it.

Normally I would not get into the middle of a thread such as this, but
I feel the need to set something straight:

I am not . He is a satisfied customer of ours,
just as he says. In fact, we have never met and we live on opposite
ends of the country. If you were to google his name you would find
that he's contributed quite a bit to the Internet's boating
communities.

I will not attempt to correct the rest of the misinformation in this
thread as I'm confident that time will take care of that...

Thanks for listening,
Brad Christian
Rose Point Navigation Systems, LLC
http://rosepointnav.com/

You got to be kidding me!!
Remove NOJUNK from Email for responses via email.

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:09:57 GMT, "BillP" wrote:

Triggered by the above remark I wonder why no company has yet written a
decent navigation package running on Linux.

Because once they made three sales to people who actually use Linux on their
boat, they'd have 100% of the potential market...

Make it four. I would gladly drop WIndows on any machine that didn't
need it for a particular app.

Mandrake Linux is the slickest and most troublefree installation I
have ever tried. You don't have to be a geek to install it. Indeed it
practically installs itself.

So, for a boat computer, what do I need.

A word processor for the log--Xemacs is fine

A program to monitor the serial ports and log NMEA inputs and
time-stamp them into a text file, that can be pasted into the log
on xemacs.

A nav-chart program that uses free vector charts.

If I take it ashore to a modem connection, I use Windoze because I
can run PMMail, a converted OS2 program that lets me check headeers
on the POP3 server, and delete spam before I download messages. I
haven't seen a linux app that works that way.

All easy except the last two.



I have no financial interest, etc etc.


Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC


We have achieved faith-based science,
faith-based economics, faith-based law
enforcement, and faith-based missile
defense.
What's next? Faith-based air traffic control?

On 27 Aug 2004 10:10:39 -0700, wrote:

Normally I would not get into the middle of a thread such as this, but
I feel the need to set something straight:

I am not . He is a satisfied customer of ours,
just as he says. In fact, we have never met and we live on opposite
ends of the country. If you were to google his name you would find
that he's contributed quite a bit to the Internet's boating
communities.

I will not attempt to correct the rest of the misinformation in this
thread as I'm confident that time will take care of that...

OK. I am a potential user but I have no info. Have you sent a dist
copy to Practical Sailor?

So far I have seen no information, mis or other. With the best will in
the world, you are not the one to clear up anything. I am sure the
program is intuitive to you if you designed it.

An unsolicited recommendation from someone who sends through an
anonymizer doesn't carry a huge amount of weight, as I am sure you can
see. How could we "google his name" if he hides it?



Thanks for listening,
Brad Christian
Rose Point Navigation Systems, LLC
http://rosepointnav.com/

Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC


We have achieved faith-based science,
faith-based economics, faith-based law
enforcement, and faith-based missile
defense.
What's next? Faith-based air traffic control?

Wayne.B wrote:

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:42:29 +0200, "Meindert Sprang"
wrote:

I think many people don't use Linux on their boat *because* there is no
decent nav package.

=============================================

And because it's a whole new learning curve to climb, not the most
user friendly system in the world, and there's not much help
available in the world outside of technology shops. All that, plus
the lack of a standardized graphical user interface, means that its
going to be a while before Linux shows up on our laptops.

It may show up embedded in dedicated hardware however where we can't
see it.

I have to agree with you here. Although Linux certainly has critical mass
on the server market, with a desktop penetration of about 1%, this is not
viable as a consumer product. Perhaps if there is sufficient interest a
bunch of us could develop our own opensource chartplotter software.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:42:29 +0200, "Meindert Sprang"

And because it's a whole new learning curve to climb, not the most
user friendly system in the world

Mmm... ever tried to install the lates SuSE? Almost like windows...

and there's not much help
available in the world outside of technology shops.

This is really amusing. Have you ever tried to get help for a windows
related problem? Most computers are sold with XP OEM, where the dealer is
supposed to support you. Most dealers only have the knowledge to tell you
how to reinstall in case of a "dark" problem. Call microsoft and you have to
draw your plastic first.

Now in case of Linux, your just post your question in a linux related
newsgroup and within the hour you have a dozen suggestions how to solve your
problem. For free!

All that, plus
the lack of a standardized graphical user interface, means that its
going to be a while before Linux shows up on our laptops.

For eons, long before the conception of a windows-like thing on a PC there
was X-windows for unix. And it's still there. Standard. The only thing that
varies amongst installations is the window manager, responsible for the look
and feel. But every linux distribution comes with the same set of window
managers, of which KDE seems to be the most popular and the most
windows-loolalike. How do you mean, there's no standard?

Meindert

In article ,
Lisa Collins wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:42:29 +0200, "Meindert Sprang"
wrote:

I think many people don't use Linux on their boat *because* there is no
decent nav package.

=============================================

And because it's a whole new learning curve to climb, not the most
user friendly system in the world, and there's not much help
available in the world outside of technology shops. All that, plus
the lack of a standardized graphical user interface, means that its
going to be a while before Linux shows up on our laptops.

It may show up embedded in dedicated hardware however where we can't
see it.

I have to agree with you here. Although Linux certainly has critical mass
on the server market, with a desktop penetration of about 1%, this is not
viable as a consumer product. Perhaps if there is sufficient interest a
bunch of us could develop our own opensource chartplotter software.




i note that HP is now shipping a laptop with SuSE 9.x
INSTALLED FROM THE FACTORY

so you don't have to wait for it to "turn up on your laptop"

-mo

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 21:26:40 +0200, "Meindert Sprang"
wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
.. .


I agree with everything you said. Still, some minor quibbles.

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:42:29 +0200, "Meindert Sprang"

And because it's a whole new learning curve to climb, not the most
user friendly system in the world

Mmm... ever tried to install the lates SuSE? Almost like windows...

But it's not Windows, is it? What is the compelling reason to change?
Other than frustration with Microsoft, which I share, but is not a big
issue for most people. New mail client, new browser, new newsreader,
new imaging software for your digicam, new word processor. Somewhat
better ones, in some cases, but not compellingly better.

and there's not much help
available in the world outside of technology shops.

This is really amusing. Have you ever tried to get help for a windows
related problem? Most computers are sold with XP OEM, where the dealer is
supposed to support you. Most dealers only have the knowledge to tell you
how to reinstall in case of a "dark" problem. Call microsoft and you have to
draw your plastic first.

Yup. So you go to a windows related newsgroup and either get a fix or
learn you have to live with it. Not particularly comforting, but at
least it's unambiguous. More on this later.

Now in case of Linux, your just post your question in a linux related
newsgroup and within the hour you have a dozen suggestions how to solve your
problem. For free!

Hehe, I was a UNIX internals guy (mostly SVID4) back in the 80s. The
saying then was that if you had a problem you needed to solve on your
UNIX system and couldn't think of a dozen *different* ways to solve
it, you didn't really know UNIX. I believed it then and it sounds as
if it is true still.

The problem is, this will not be perceived as a benefit by the average
user. It is a fine example of ambiguity, and most people aren't
comfortable with ambiguity. Also, of those dozen fixes, how many will
be things that the ordinary user is comfortable doing? Finally, and I
know this sounds insane, most computer users I know don't read or even
know about newsgroups.


All that, plus
the lack of a standardized graphical user interface, means that its
going to be a while before Linux shows up on our laptops.

For eons, long before the conception of a windows-like thing on a PC there
was X-windows for unix. And it's still there. Standard. The only thing that
varies amongst installations is the window manager, responsible for the look
and feel. But every linux distribution comes with the same set of window
managers, of which KDE seems to be the most popular and the most
windows-loolalike. How do you mean, there's no standard?

All true. Windows GUI is a pretty clunky interface and it's not hard
to beat or equal. I have more of an issue with the design and
usability variations of individual utilities and programs. This is
fast gaining attention in the open source community as a crfitical
issue.

Meindert

I want a viable alternative (linux would do) for Windows as much as
the next guy. Competition is a Goode Thing. For servers, we have one.
For corporate desktop users, we are very close, if only because there
is the ability to mandate the users' standard platform. For Joe
Homeuser, not close at all, because there is no compelling reason to
change. When we start to get significant trickle-down of corporate
users opting for a linux system at home to match their office systems,
then we start to make headway. All in my ever so humble opinion, of
course.

Glen

PS Where are the Mac users in this thread? They should be foaming at
the mouth by now...
__________________________________________________ __________
Glen "Wiley" Wilson usenet1 SPAMNIX at worldwidewiley dot com
To reply, lose the capitals and do the obvious.

Take a look at cpRepeater, my NMEA data integrator, repeater, and
logger at http://www.worldwidewiley.com/

"Glen "Wiley" Wilson" wrote in
message ...
PS Where are the Mac users in this thread? They should be foaming at
the mouth by now...

Why? OS X is just a slick interface on top of a rewritten unix (BSD, I
believe). So they are already the happiest people in the world ;-) And on
top of that, there is already decent nav software available for the Mac.

Meindert