"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote in
:

'm not familiar with the "full" ham class


That's one that operates on more frequencies than from 26.9 to 28.9
Mhz....(c;

It usually also means the station is less than 1.5KW, too!

The head ARRL tester, who also gives GROL tests, here, used to be a 10KW CB
operator....They're not all bad, after being "turned"....(c;

The SGC-2000 IS Type Accepted and therefor can be used legally in both
the Marine and Ham Radio Services, as long as it is UNMODIFIED from the
original factory configuration.

Any other Marine Radio that is Type Accepted can be used in Marine or
Ham Radio Service, as long as it is UNMODIFIED from it's original factory
configuration.

If a Marine Radio that is Type Accepted is then subsequently MODIFIED
by anyone other than the OEM, it is NOT considered Type Accepted any
longer, by the FCC, as it is now MODIFIED, and therefor must go thru
the Type Acceptance Procedure again to qualify for Type Acceptance.

Any MODIFICATION to the radio that changes it's basic configuration
or Operating Charactoristics would invalidate the Type Acceptance for
that radio.

"Opening" a radio is considered such a MODIFACTION, as it requires one
to actually take the covers off and change something mechanically inside
the radio, itself, thus altering the FACTORY OEM Configuration.

Not all that clear. The ICOM M-710 is "opened" by uploading software
mods. Are you saying that if these mods are uploaded by the factory
or a dealer then it is still Type Accepted, but if I do it myself then it is
not?

BTW, your shift key seems to be malfunctioning. Better have it checked
by a qualified technician

Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
chuck wrote in :

And of course, there is the SGC 2000.


Yeah, but SGC doesn't count because you can't keep one of them out of the
shop long enough to be a problem....(c;

I have a friend that has been cruising now for 7 years and has had no
problems with his SG-2000. Go figure.

Just stirring the pot. Every one I've seen just sucked.

You should lay off the pot. The one I had worked very well. But I only
had it for a short time before I sold it.

Doug. k3qt
s/v Callista

BOP is a terrible idea! Just shows how our colleges are graduating
idiot EEs.

Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
chuck wrote in :

Or are you
suggesting that "open" versions of the type-accepted marine
radios are no longer type-accepted?


Hmm....Sorry I didn't see this sooner. We had Riley Hollingsworth, Chief
Council for Amateur Radio of the FCC Enforcement Division at our hamfest
last weekend. I could have put this question to him.

My feeling is that any radio that will transmit out-of-band for a
particular service PROBABLY is no longer acceptable in the eyes of the
FCC,
especially radios designed to be operated by non-technical
operators.....taxi drivers, firemen, cops, boaters, etc. The entire
reason
the radios are type accepted this way is to prevent these radios from
interfering with other services they are not licensed to transmit on.

I do, however, think all Marine HF radios should be channlized in such a
way that they CAN transmit on the ham radio marine defacto net channels,
for use in emergencies, such as 14.300. The Icom M-802 has this channel,
and others, in the ham bands but will not transmit on them until you open
the transmitter up, probably in violation of some FCC regs.

Mr Hollingsworth's speech was most interesting at the hamfest. Ham
radio's
greatest threat, right now, is Broadband Over Powerline interference,
which
just wipes out whole ham bands in the HF spectrum from use anywhere it has
been implemented. This should also be of interest to boaters in distress
as ham stations monitoring the maritime ham nets won't be able to hear
your
distress calls over the racket from the local power company broadband
internet provider. How stupid and awful. They zap a cable operator if
his
coax radiates, but not some big bribing power company conglomerate. Go
figure....follow the money?

"Me" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote:

I believe that most newer ham rigs are now type accepted for
Marine SSB use. I know that the SGC SG-2000 was the only
one for a long time but I'm pretty sure there are others. Not sure
about the IC-751 specifically. Easy enough to find out though.

Doug, k3qt

Actually, that is not the case. The SG-2000 was a commercial
MF/HF Radio that some hams actually got conned into buying.
"Peeair" still can't design HIS way out of a wet paper bag.
I can't think of ONE radio sold into the Ham market, that is
TYPE ACCEPTED for commercial use. The design criteria is
different for commercial radios, and to be TYPE ACCEPTED
they can't have a Continious Tuning VFO type operational
system.

Me

"Peeair" has been a Silent Key for over a year, so he won't be trying much
designing in this world anymore.

73
Doug K7ABX

In article . net,
"Doug" wrote:

"Me" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote:

I believe that most newer ham rigs are now type accepted for
Marine SSB use. I know that the SGC SG-2000 was the only
one for a long time but I'm pretty sure there are others. Not sure
about the IC-751 specifically. Easy enough to find out though.

Doug, k3qt

Actually, that is not the case. The SG-2000 was a commercial
MF/HF Radio that some hams actually got conned into buying.
"Peeair" still can't design HIS way out of a wet paper bag.
I can't think of ONE radio sold into the Ham market, that is
TYPE ACCEPTED for commercial use. The design criteria is
different for commercial radios, and to be TYPE ACCEPTED
they can't have a Continious Tuning VFO type operational
system.

Me

"Peeair" has been a Silent Key for over a year, so he won't be trying much
designing in this world anymore.

73
Doug K7ABX



Oh, Darn, Now who am I going to dump on, when I "Rant" about SGC????
I wonder who their Chief Engineer is now? Maybe Finn Christiansen?


Me

In article ,
"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote:

Not all that clear. The ICOM M-710 is "opened" by uploading software
mods. Are you saying that if these mods are uploaded by the factory
or a dealer then it is still Type Accepted, but if I do it myself then it is
not?

BTW, your shift key seems to be malfunctioning. Better have it checked
by a qualified technician

Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

Geeez Doug, What does it take for you to understand, here?

The software that is running in the radio, IS part of the Operational
Interface, and if it is different than what was submitted to the FCC
during the Type Acceptance Proceedure, and different than the software
that was in the two submitted Representative Radios, then it is
considered a MODIFICATION by the FCC and would incalidate the
Type Acceptance of that radio when subsequently loaded in the radio
by ANYONE, even the OEM. The Radio isn't the same, when the different
software is loaded, unless that software was included in the Original,
or Subsequent Type Acceptance Proceedure by the OEM.

You can't modify the radio, in ANY substatial way after Type Acceptance
has been granted, and still have that Type Acceptance be Valid.


Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @

On 2005-02-10 05:31:55 +1100, Bruce in Alaska said:

In article ,
"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote:

Not all that clear. The ICOM M-710 is "opened" by uploading software
mods. Are you saying that if these mods are uploaded by the factory
or a dealer then it is still Type Accepted, but if I do it myself then
it is not?

BTW, your shift key seems to be malfunctioning. Better have it checked
by a qualified technician

Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

Geeez Doug, What does it take for you to understand, here?

The software that is running in the radio, IS part of the Operational
Interface, and if it is different than what was submitted to the FCC
during the Type Acceptance Proceedure, and different than the software
that was in the two submitted Representative Radios, then it is
considered a MODIFICATION by the FCC and would incalidate the
Type Acceptance of that radio when subsequently loaded in the radio
by ANYONE, even the OEM. The Radio isn't the same, when the different
software is loaded, unless that software was included in the Original,
or Subsequent Type Acceptance Proceedure by the OEM.

You can't modify the radio, in ANY substatial way after Type Acceptance
has been granted, and still have that Type Acceptance be Valid.


Bruce in alaska
--

Bruce, don't be too hard on Doug. This is a perception thing.

Generally people don't see software as the same thing as hardware. It
is somehow different because it is "just a file of 1's and 0's". As
more and more equipment is mushware (hardware and software combined to
give a reconfigurable device) that perception will have to change.

Rather than call it software if we were to call it firmware (which it
may be) then most people would consider it as tied to the hardware and
see it in the same light. And yes, the firmware and hardware
combination is type approved as a whole entity. Theoretically a new
release of the firmware would need to be certified as well but I expect
the FCC as a matter of convenience does not require a retest on each
new release of the firmware.

--
Regards,
John Proctor VK3JP, VKV6789
S/V Chagall

How about an answer for a change. IS THE ICOM-M710 WITH THE
ICOM SUPPLIED SOFTWARE UPDATE TO ENABLE HAM BANDS
TYPE ACCEPTED? IS THERE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN
M710 PURCHASED WITH THE MOD DIFFERENT THAN A RIG
THAT HAD THE MOD DONE LATER? I haven't a clue what ICOM
submitted to the FCC. It doesn;t seem to appear in the manual. Can you
wrap your head around this question?

Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista



"Bruce in Alaska" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote:

Not all that clear. The ICOM M-710 is "opened" by uploading software
mods. Are you saying that if these mods are uploaded by the factory
or a dealer then it is still Type Accepted, but if I do it myself then it
is
not?

BTW, your shift key seems to be malfunctioning. Better have it checked
by a qualified technician

Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

Geeez Doug, What does it take for you to understand, here?

The software that is running in the radio, IS part of the Operational
Interface, and if it is different than what was submitted to the FCC
during the Type Acceptance Proceedure, and different than the software
that was in the two submitted Representative Radios, then it is
considered a MODIFICATION by the FCC and would incalidate the
Type Acceptance of that radio when subsequently loaded in the radio
by ANYONE, even the OEM. The Radio isn't the same, when the different
software is loaded, unless that software was included in the Original,
or Subsequent Type Acceptance Proceedure by the OEM.

You can't modify the radio, in ANY substatial way after Type Acceptance
has been granted, and still have that Type Acceptance be Valid.


Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @

Cut me some slack John. I've been an EE and SE for 30 years specializing
mostly in embedded systems. I know the difference between hardware,
software, formware and underware

Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

"John Proctor" wrote in message
news:2005021007410416807%lost@nowhereorg...
On 2005-02-10 05:31:55 +1100, Bruce in Alaska said:

In article ,
"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote:

Not all that clear. The ICOM M-710 is "opened" by uploading software
mods. Are you saying that if these mods are uploaded by the factory
or a dealer then it is still Type Accepted, but if I do it myself then
it is not?

BTW, your shift key seems to be malfunctioning. Better have it checked
by a qualified technician

Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

Geeez Doug, What does it take for you to understand, here?

The software that is running in the radio, IS part of the Operational
Interface, and if it is different than what was submitted to the FCC
during the Type Acceptance Proceedure, and different than the software
that was in the two submitted Representative Radios, then it is
considered a MODIFICATION by the FCC and would incalidate the
Type Acceptance of that radio when subsequently loaded in the radio
by ANYONE, even the OEM. The Radio isn't the same, when the different
software is loaded, unless that software was included in the Original,
or Subsequent Type Acceptance Proceedure by the OEM.

You can't modify the radio, in ANY substatial way after Type Acceptance
has been granted, and still have that Type Acceptance be Valid.


Bruce in alaska
--

Bruce, don't be too hard on Doug. This is a perception thing.

Generally people don't see software as the same thing as hardware. It is
somehow different because it is "just a file of 1's and 0's". As more and
more equipment is mushware (hardware and software combined to give a
reconfigurable device) that perception will have to change.

Rather than call it software if we were to call it firmware (which it may
be) then most people would consider it as tied to the hardware and see it
in the same light. And yes, the firmware and hardware combination is type
approved as a whole entity. Theoretically a new release of the firmware
would need to be certified as well but I expect the FCC as a matter of
convenience does not require a retest on each new release of the firmware.

--
Regards,
John Proctor VK3JP, VKV6789
S/V Chagall