On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:32:18 -0500, "Jack Painter"
wrote:

Is this clear what your first steps should be, ie: obtaining an owner's
manual, determining what your radio is capable of, then registering an MMSI
via phone and programming or letting a BOAT-US associate do it for you, then
hooking up your GPS according to the instruction manuals, and operating your
radio in accordance with it's instruction manuals?

===========================

It's very clear thanks, but it doesn't really address my concern.

My concern is that there doesn't seem to be anyway to test it and see
if it's actually working as intended. My 40+ years of experience with
things electronic has lead me to believe that nothing should be
assumed to work unless it gets tested periodically.

Jack you are not correct. A third Class is for the person
and it is good for any radio use. I had to have one when I
was on a Police Dept. before I could use either the station
radio or the radios in the patrol cars and it go where ever
I go. All it is is a license that says you are familial with
the rules on talking on a radio as to language as to what
you can say and what you can not.
"Jack Painter" wrote in message
news:1cHYd.62360$7z6.6536@lakeread04...

"Bruce in Alaska" slid off his stool and
shouted:

"Jack Painter" wrote:

Also, a U.S. vessel that plans to dock (or communicate)
at a non-US port
of
call, must have a restricted radiotelephone operators
license. This good
for
life (of the vessel you own and operate) and also does
not involve any
exam.
The license covers vhf, hf, gmdss and radars with no
description of
equipments required. It will include applying for an
MMSI to be used
internationally.

Again, jackie is extending information that he doesn't
understand.......

HEY JACK, How about you "GET A CLUE before you confuse
folks with your
uninformed information.

First: A Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit is
for a PERSON
not a vessel. It is an "OPERATORs" and a vessel
can't be
an operator.

I know that Bruce. I mentioned the "vessel" because it is
for the owner of A
VESSEL, and cannot be transferred or used when the licensee
goes to another
vessel. So it is "for life" only if it remains ON THAT
VESSEL. Please grow
up or go back to your barstool.



Second: A US Flagged vessel, if it is to operate outside
US Territorial
Waters, AND communicate with non-US Coast
Stations, must have
a valid Ship Radio Station License issued by the
FCC.


Here you go mixing up licenses again, forgetting the title
and topic of this
newsgroup is RECREATIONAL boating. Only a Restricted
Operators permit is
required for a recreational boater who wants to visit a
foreign port. His
boat can remain "covered by the rule" which means no station
license for
VHF-only, and the ROP covers his carriage of the radio,
whether he uses it
OR NOT, in a foreign port.




Third: If, and only if, the vessel has fitted, only VHF
Radios and,
or, a Marine S or Xband Radar, and does not
communicated with
non-US Coast Stations, it MAY be covered by the
Blanket License
issued by the FCC, which covers all such vessels
in perpituity,
and does not require any action on the owners, or
operators
parts as far as licensing is concerened.

That's called being "covered by the rule" and does not
permit a vessel to
dock in a foreign port, which is why it's another of your
useless comments
that serves only the interests of your strange ego.


Fourth:
/snipped unadulterated blabber
..
Fifth:
/snipped unadulterated blabber

Sixth:
/snipped unadulterated blabber


Now that we got that straight....... Carry on.......


Bruce in alaska who wishes that USCG would refrain
from distributing
uninformed information.......

"Straight" is a concept difficult to apply to your posts.

The information I posted is current, accurate, and applies
to the questions
posted by Wayne B. The rules have changed since the time
you claimed to
have once been a field-rep for the FCC. Try to remember the
"recreational"
concept of the newsgroup, please.

Best regards,

Jack Painter
Virginia Beach, Virginia

"Wayne.B" wrote
"Jack Painter"
wrote:

Is this clear what your first steps should be, ie: obtaining an owner's
manual, determining what your radio is capable of, then registering an
MMSI
via phone and programming or letting a BOAT-US associate do it for you,
then
hooking up your GPS according to the instruction manuals, and operating
your
radio in accordance with it's instruction manuals?

===========================

It's very clear thanks, but it doesn't really address my concern.

My concern is that there doesn't seem to be anyway to test it and see
if it's actually working as intended. My 40+ years of experience with
things electronic has lead me to believe that nothing should be
assumed to work unless it gets tested periodically.


Understandably. And aside from finding equipment such as Bruce mentioned
that could "read" the output sent to a dummy-load, there is no way to know
if your distress button will really take a valid output from your GPS, add
it to the programmed MMSI, and transmit it on Ch-70. That's the way it is,
and if you can come up with a convincing argument to change that, which
won't overload the whole system, by all means do so.

When HF-DSC was tested daily by the rule, it overwhelmed the whole HF-DSC
system worldwide. It took ITU a long time to amend that to require weekly
testing, and several months later, the system is still inundated with
testing.

There is a fair amount of "testing" VHF-DSC that goes on anyway, and unless
the boater or ship who did it acknowledges it was a test (almost never
happens), the USCG must devote significant time and effort before it can
finally be classified as an uncorrelated mayday and cancelled. While it is
unauthorized use of a transmitter to make any kind of live VHF-DSC distress
testing, the cost to the USCG in search time when the sender does not
acknowledge his "test" can be substantial. I don't know of a case in 5th
District where anyone was prosecuted even for not acknowledging their
"test", and we often do find them. So at least admitting to a "test" would
be an honorable thing to do, and probably not result in any repercussions
unless it became a habit.


Jack

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 21:02:50 -0500, "Jack Painter"
wrote:


"Wayne.B" wrote
"Jack Painter"
wrote:
snippage

It's very clear thanks, but it doesn't really address my concern.

My concern is that there doesn't seem to be anyway to test it and see
if it's actually working as intended. My 40+ years of experience with
things electronic has lead me to believe that nothing should be
assumed to work unless it gets tested periodically.


Understandably. And aside from finding equipment such as Bruce mentioned
that could "read" the output sent to a dummy-load, there is no way to know
if your distress button will really take a valid output from your GPS, add
it to the programmed MMSI, and transmit it on Ch-70. That's the way it is,
and if you can come up with a convincing argument to change that, which
won't overload the whole system, by all means do so.

Most VHF DSC radios will show the position received from the local GPS
if they have not received a DSC call, so that will check that the GPS
is correctly connected to the radio.

If you have friends with a DSC radio, you can exchange routine DSC
calls and position requests, which should test most functions, without
needing to send an actual distress alert.









--
Peter Bennett VE7CEI
email: peterbb4 (at) interchange.ubc.ca
GPS and NMEA info and programs: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter/index.html
Newsgroup new user info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/nnq

"Bruce in Alaska" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Wayne.B wrote:

Actually not. My question was, "How can I ensure that my DSC radio is
actually hooked up and working, i.e, is the position information and
identifier being sent correctly?"

The licensing information and issuance of an identifier is an entirely
different topic.

If you knew someone with a ROSS DSC Vhf from a few years back, it will
display the data transmitted from a DSC Radio. This could be done with
the test radio on a "Dummy Load" so as to not radiate a False Distress
Signal. Or, just about any full GMDSS Suite could display the data
transmitted.

Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @

I spent a lot of time about a year ago calling the various technical support
people at Standard Horizon, ICOM, SEA, etc., about proper service shop
testing of DSC. What I found out was the "factory" service guys use two
radios, dummy loaded, to talk to each other, just as an on the air chat
between two DSC radios would do. The Distress function may not be done dummy
loaded only. The USCG has issued direction that a shield room or shield box
be used in addition to the dummy load for the recreational type radios.
Remember, dummy loads are not perfect and plastic box radios do radiate
also. The bottom line...there is not proper way for a recreational boat
owner to test the Distress button function, other than built in self test
non-radiating functions some radios have built in. The DSC function itself
can be tested by talking to another DSC, MMSI registered station. The GPS
location shows on the display of modern DSC radio. The GPS location received
from another vessel can be shown on a chart plotter that have the NMEA
OUTPUT from the DSC radio connected to a plotter input (only top of the line
recreational radios have that feature).
I have no actual experience with the $25K full GMDSS test sets used on the
commercial high seas equipment.
73
Doug K7ABX

In article .net,
"Doug" wrote:

"Bruce in Alaska" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Wayne.B wrote:

Actually not. My question was, "How can I ensure that my DSC radio is
actually hooked up and working, i.e, is the position information and
identifier being sent correctly?"

The licensing information and issuance of an identifier is an entirely
different topic.

If you knew someone with a ROSS DSC Vhf from a few years back, it will
display the data transmitted from a DSC Radio. This could be done with
the test radio on a "Dummy Load" so as to not radiate a False Distress
Signal. Or, just about any full GMDSS Suite could display the data
transmitted.

Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @

I spent a lot of time about a year ago calling the various technical support
people at Standard Horizon, ICOM, SEA, etc., about proper service shop
testing of DSC. What I found out was the "factory" service guys use two
radios, dummy loaded, to talk to each other, just as an on the air chat
between two DSC radios would do. The Distress function may not be done dummy
loaded only. The USCG has issued direction that a shield room or shield box
be used in addition to the dummy load for the recreational type radios.
Remember, dummy loads are not perfect and plastic box radios do radiate
also. The bottom line...there is not proper way for a recreational boat
owner to test the Distress button function, other than built in self test
non-radiating functions some radios have built in. The DSC function itself
can be tested by talking to another DSC, MMSI registered station. The GPS
location shows on the display of modern DSC radio. The GPS location received
from another vessel can be shown on a chart plotter that have the NMEA
OUTPUT from the DSC radio connected to a plotter input (only top of the line
recreational radios have that feature).
I have no actual experience with the $25K full GMDSS test sets used on the
commercial high seas equipment.
73
Doug K7ABX



Very good post Doug....

I would add, that part of the SOLAS Inspoection of any GMDSS Suite is
the testing of the Distree Signal Transmitter RF Output Data Stream
to prove that the required data is correct and encoded correctly.
this happens into a Dummy Load, and NOT during Silent Periods.

Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @