Flemming Torp wrote:
snip
Thank you Jack for a very thorough, relevant, and solid input!

You're welcome, I'm seeing this on rec.boats.electronics and it is a
group that knows a lot and will share it helpfully. I've learned a lot
here too.

Another newsgroup that may be a little more focused on gps, navigation,
and some of the details of your questions here is sci.geo.satellite-nav.
I think there is more discussion there of the specific devices and
processes you want to do.

snip
This is exactly, what I want! But - unfortunately - this is a 'world'
I've never been into ... I have been told, that the maps in DLSK are
stored in a xxx.it - format, that is not compatible with anything else
in the world ... and I'm not in a position to challenge this statement
... I will have to study this whole subject in more details. I will go
to the library. Maybe you have some relevant references?

I don't really have any library references, what I know has been learned
through experience, newsgroups, web pages, and just playing around with it.

I do not really
know what calibration - in this context means - so I feel I'm pretty far
from the target ....

It is not that complicated, after all I think I get it. :)

If you download SeaClear II and look around on that web site, there are
several documentation files that will give you the basics of calibration
and how to do it. The Ozi-PC trial version also has a good explanation
of it. I am getting more comfortable with map calibration but am far
from an expert and have not used it much. Basically it is mapping the
x,y pixels in a map image file to a geographical reference system. You
tell the program the lat/long postion of a number of specific pixels
that are at known geographic points and the program then maps all the
other pixels to that geographical reference system. That is a
simplistic explanation and maybe not even quite correct.

Compared to my 'long term solution' or alternatives, I do not find the
prices of the two ozi-programmes prohibitive.

That was my feeling when I bought it, I consider it a real bargain at
the price.

snip

I may understand this, when I start working with it ...

I think you will, I felt the same way when I started but wanting to do
it and being stubborn will overcome a lot of ignorance.

snip
That's a nice solution. My PPC supports MMC and SD memory cards. I have
started with 256MB, but can see, that prices on memory cards are going
in the right direction ...

My primary challenge - I understand - is to learn how to 'calibrate and
convert' my DLSK-maps into a format, that ozi-CE can read ... As the
boat is still packed in ice, I may have some time during the coming
weeks to study map-calibration, different map formats, conversion
programmes etc. It's a completely new world for me - but fascinating -
and a little frightening ...

By it being mentioned on these groups, I would be surprised if someone
who has already done it does not speak up. There is a image file format
called tiff/it that may have something in common with your DLSK files.
It may be that you already have a bit mapped image file but that it does
not have a common name. It may just need to be "figured out".

If you familiarize yourself with map calibration with Ozi and SeaClear
and have more questions, I recommend you try asking them on the
sci.geo.satellite-nav newsgroup. I think you'll hit a little better
audience for the question there.

Good luck, feel free to email me off the group also if you think I can
be helpful.

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)

Flemming Torp wrote:
snip
Thank you Jack for a very thorough, relevant, and solid input!

You're welcome, I'm seeing this on rec.boats.electronics and it is a
group that knows a lot and will share it helpfully. I've learned a lot
here too.

Another newsgroup that may be a little more focused on gps, navigation,
and some of the details of your questions here is sci.geo.satellite-nav.
I think there is more discussion there of the specific devices and
processes you want to do.

snip
This is exactly, what I want! But - unfortunately - this is a 'world'
I've never been into ... I have been told, that the maps in DLSK are
stored in a xxx.it - format, that is not compatible with anything else
in the world ... and I'm not in a position to challenge this statement
... I will have to study this whole subject in more details. I will go
to the library. Maybe you have some relevant references?

I don't really have any library references, what I know has been learned
through experience, newsgroups, web pages, and just playing around with it.

I do not really
know what calibration - in this context means - so I feel I'm pretty far
from the target ....

It is not that complicated, after all I think I get it. :)

If you download SeaClear II and look around on that web site, there are
several documentation files that will give you the basics of calibration
and how to do it. The Ozi-PC trial version also has a good explanation
of it. I am getting more comfortable with map calibration but am far
from an expert and have not used it much. Basically it is mapping the
x,y pixels in a map image file to a geographical reference system. You
tell the program the lat/long postion of a number of specific pixels
that are at known geographic points and the program then maps all the
other pixels to that geographical reference system. That is a
simplistic explanation and maybe not even quite correct.

Compared to my 'long term solution' or alternatives, I do not find the
prices of the two ozi-programmes prohibitive.

That was my feeling when I bought it, I consider it a real bargain at
the price.

snip

I may understand this, when I start working with it ...

I think you will, I felt the same way when I started but wanting to do
it and being stubborn will overcome a lot of ignorance.

snip
That's a nice solution. My PPC supports MMC and SD memory cards. I have
started with 256MB, but can see, that prices on memory cards are going
in the right direction ...

My primary challenge - I understand - is to learn how to 'calibrate and
convert' my DLSK-maps into a format, that ozi-CE can read ... As the
boat is still packed in ice, I may have some time during the coming
weeks to study map-calibration, different map formats, conversion
programmes etc. It's a completely new world for me - but fascinating -
and a little frightening ...

By it being mentioned on these groups, I would be surprised if someone
who has already done it does not speak up. There is a image file format
called tiff/it that may have something in common with your DLSK files.
It may be that you already have a bit mapped image file but that it does
not have a common name. It may just need to be "figured out".

If you familiarize yourself with map calibration with Ozi and SeaClear
and have more questions, I recommend you try asking them on the
sci.geo.satellite-nav newsgroup. I think you'll hit a little better
audience for the question there.

Good luck, feel free to email me off the group also if you think I can
be helpful.

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)

Flemming Torp wrote:
As I'm very 'intrigued' by the wireless solution, I'm
curious as to what it takes to implement that set up in my
case ... I have been at the vnc homepage, which I find very
interesting, but hard to understand ... my age and my weak
background within this field - unfortunately ... If you will
help me, I will be happy - thank you!

VNC is a cross-platform application for remote controlling one computer
from another. You can use any of Unix, Mac, Windows PC or PPC computers to
control any (or all) of the others.

The computers have to be connected together by a TCP/IP network. In your
case, this would either involve a wireless LAN, or a network cable (but you
would have to go to some trouble to make the connections waterproof).

I'm not familiar with the PPC, so I don't know if it has a network socket,
or wireless LAN. If it hasn't, then I don't think you can do what you want.

--
Nikki Locke, Trumphurst Ltd. PC & Unix consultancy & programming
http://www.trumphurst.com/

"Jack Erbes" skrev i en meddelelse
...
snip

Another newsgroup that may be a little more focused on gps,
navigation, and some of the details of your questions here is
sci.geo.satellite-nav. I think there is more discussion there
of the specific devices and processes you want to do.


I'm aware of that group too. The reason for 'entering' boats' is
that the first input came from a sailor using this newgroup, be
I'm afraid, that he does not use it regularly ...

snip

If you download SeaClear II and look around on that web site,
there are several documentation files that will give you the
basics of calibration and how to do it.

snip

Yes - I will try to be patient and take the time ...

By it being mentioned on these groups, I would be surprised if
someone who has already done it does not speak up.

snip

Very recently, I received an answer in the Danish newsgroup about
the possibility og converting the format of DLSK til some kind of
ozi-readable format. The answer is no - it is a 'very'
proprietary format!

Good luck, feel free to email me off the group also if you
think I can be helpful.

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot
net

(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)

Thank you very much for your support.

--
Flemming Torp
'Even the worst day sailing is better than the best day working'
....

Thank you for your input. All I know, is that there is a cable
connection between the socket of my PPC and into a USB port in my
notebook. The program is called Microsoft ActiveSync, and I can
'see' the memory of the PPC from explorer on the notebook, when
the PPC is in the craddle ... And via this connection I can send
data back and forth. F.ex. synchronize Outlook, download maps
from PC to PPC.

I was naive, I understand, in assuming, that this connection
would be sufficient ... which reminds me of the old saying: "All
complex problems has at least one simple solution, - - - that
does not work" ...

I'm really not too much worried about making the connections
totally waterproof ... if it really gets rough, I will use my
'back up system': Pencil and paper ... (+ GPS etc. in the cabin)
.... and put my PPC in the drawer. The solution I'm looking for is
a kind of 'nice to have' ... the 'need to have' is in place!

--
Flemming Torp
'Even the worst day sailing is better than the best day working'
....

"Nikki Locke" skrev i en meddelelse
...
Flemming Torp wrote:
As I'm very 'intrigued' by the wireless solution, I'm
curious as to what it takes to implement that set up in my
case ... I have been at the vnc homepage, which I find very
interesting, but hard to understand ... my age and my weak
background within this field - unfortunately ... If you will
help me, I will be happy - thank you!

VNC is a cross-platform application for remote controlling one
computer
from another. You can use any of Unix, Mac, Windows PC or PPC
computers to
control any (or all) of the others.

The computers have to be connected together by a TCP/IP
network. In your
case, this would either involve a wireless LAN, or a network
cable (but you
would have to go to some trouble to make the connections
waterproof).

I'm not familiar with the PPC, so I don't know if it has a
network socket,
or wireless LAN. If it hasn't, then I don't think you can do
what you want.

--
Nikki Locke, Trumphurst Ltd. PC & Unix consultancy &
programming
http://www.trumphurst.com/

Dennis Pogson wrote:

It would seem that our friend wishes to control a notebook and it's software
located in the cabin from a PDA located in the cockpit. If I am correct in
this assumption, I would have thought this to be impossible, since the
notebook's functions cannot be replicated in the PDA, can they?

No, they can't. If they could be, he wouldn't need the notebook, would he?

What he can do, and what he wants to do, is merely to view and control
the laptop from the PDA. VNC is almost certainly the answer here - there
will be a server for the laptop whatever operating system it uses. There
may or may not be a viewer for the PDA depending on what kind it is, but
there's a good chance that one will be available. I'm not sure how it
will cope with the difference in screen sizes, but the author of the PDA
VNC viewer will have thought of that and come up with something for
better or worse.

You can stick VNC into google as well as I can if you want a link.

Pete

Thank you Pete, for trying to help me out. What I want is to
protect my new (!) notebook (running WinXP) - control it from my
PPC (a windows version with MS Outlook, Navigation and MS
ActiveSync) in the cockpit - and as my notebook application
(DLSK) cannot run on the PPC and as the application cannot be
transferred to the PPC, I would like to use my PPC as a 'viewer'.
An alternative could be an external monitor to the notebook, and
then I could use my cordles mouse controlling the applikation ...
Unfortunately, monitor prices (5 - 10 KU$) for that kind of
application is prohibitive for my wallet and needs. Its a 'nice
to have'-solution, I'm after ...

I have been searching on the vnc site - very informative by the
way ... But I have not been able to see, whether my specific
problem - (i.e. PPC as the 'controller', and I don't have an
internet/TCP/IP on my boat, and the formats of the different
screens may also pose problems(?)) is being solved. I may present
to them my specific problem, as I'm not an IT-expert, and it is
hard to read through all the pages of the VNC manual, that I have
already downloaded ... so far, I have not seen a solution to my
problem.

--
Flemming Torp
'Even the worst day sailing is better than the best day working'
....
"Pete Verdon" d
skrev i en meddelelse
...
Dennis Pogson wrote:

It would seem that our friend wishes to control a notebook and
it's software
located in the cabin from a PDA located in the cockpit. If I
am correct in
this assumption, I would have thought this to be impossible,
since the
notebook's functions cannot be replicated in the PDA, can
they?

No, they can't. If they could be, he wouldn't need the
notebook, would he?

What he can do, and what he wants to do, is merely to view and
control the laptop from the PDA. VNC is almost certainly the
answer here - there will be a server for the laptop whatever
operating system it uses. There may or may not be a viewer for
the PDA depending on what kind it is, but there's a good chance
that one will be available. I'm not sure how it will cope with
the difference in screen sizes, but the author of the PDA VNC
viewer will have thought of that and come up with something for
better or worse.

You can stick VNC into google as well as I can if you want a
link.

Pete

You will want to use VNC "server" on the laptop running your chartplotter
software.

You will want to install VNC for PPC on the handheld. The handheld will use
the client to connect to the server, and thus control your laptop from the
handheld.

In order to do this you need an IP connection. This will mean :

1) running WIFI on the laptop and PPC system.
- you can install a WIFI (802.11b) card on the PPC handheld as either as SD
card, or in the MMC slot.
- on the laptop you have a choice of PCMCIA cards or USB adapters for WIFI
- the advantage of WIFI is greater range
2) running a Bluetooth personal network between the laptop and PPC system
- most common form for BT on PPC is an SD card on older PPC handleds. Newer
ones typically have integrated BT
- for the laptop you will add a BT USB adapter if you don't currently have
built in support for it
- the advantage of BT is lower power consumption over WIFI, but you lose
range.

I have an Ipaq 5400 series PPC and when I enable WIFI it seriously drains
the batteries. I leave Bluetooth always enabled since it's not much of a
noticeable difference (the same on my cell phone, I always leave BT
enabled).

The main point here is, as Nikki stated, you need a TCP/IP connection and
that means some form of the above... or a physical connection which is not
practical.

VNC (search for tight VNC as well, also free and better performance) is not
the only solution. You could use Microsoft's own Terminal Services on the
laptop and load the Terminal Service Client for PPC if you wanted (to spend
money that is... because VNC is free).


If you decide on the Bluetooth solution you must make sure that the
Bluetooth adapter (USB) that you purchase for the laptop supports the
personal network service. Not all Bluetooth adapters are created equal,
some have support for more services than others (for example, my Ipaq does
not support the wireless headset profile, yet my laptop does).

Hope this helps.

R/
Dan




"Flemming Torp" fletop(kanelbolle)2rp.d(anmar)k wrote in message
. ..
Thank you for your input. All I know, is that there is a cable
connection between the socket of my PPC and into a USB port in my
notebook. The program is called Microsoft ActiveSync, and I can
'see' the memory of the PPC from explorer on the notebook, when
the PPC is in the craddle ... And via this connection I can send
data back and forth. F.ex. synchronize Outlook, download maps
from PC to PPC.

I was naive, I understand, in assuming, that this connection
would be sufficient ... which reminds me of the old saying: "All
complex problems has at least one simple solution, - - - that
does not work" ...

I'm really not too much worried about making the connections
totally waterproof ... if it really gets rough, I will use my
'back up system': Pencil and paper ... (+ GPS etc. in the cabin)
... and put my PPC in the drawer. The solution I'm looking for is
a kind of 'nice to have' ... the 'need to have' is in place!

--
Flemming Torp
'Even the worst day sailing is better than the best day working'
...

"Nikki Locke" skrev i en meddelelse
...
Flemming Torp wrote:
As I'm very 'intrigued' by the wireless solution, I'm
curious as to what it takes to implement that set up in my
case ... I have been at the vnc homepage, which I find very
interesting, but hard to understand ... my age and my weak
background within this field - unfortunately ... If you will
help me, I will be happy - thank you!

VNC is a cross-platform application for remote controlling one
computer
from another. You can use any of Unix, Mac, Windows PC or PPC
computers to
control any (or all) of the others.

The computers have to be connected together by a TCP/IP
network. In your
case, this would either involve a wireless LAN, or a network
cable (but you
would have to go to some trouble to make the connections
waterproof).

I'm not familiar with the PPC, so I don't know if it has a
network socket,
or wireless LAN. If it hasn't, then I don't think you can do
what you want.

--
Nikki Locke, Trumphurst Ltd. PC & Unix consultancy &
programming
http://www.trumphurst.com/

Flemming Torp wrote:
Thank you for your input. All I know, is that there is a cable
connection between the socket of my PPC and into a USB port in my
notebook. The program is called Microsoft ActiveSync, and I can
'see' the memory of the PPC from explorer on the notebook, when
the PPC is in the craddle ... And via this connection I can send
data back and forth. F.ex. synchronize Outlook, download maps
from PC to PPC.
Snip

I carried out an experiment last night. Set up my laptop and moved the
wireless mouse away to the far end of the room. I was able to control the
mouse on-screen from 20 feet away. Set up a remote TFT display at this
distance and was able to work the laptop from at least 20 feet away.

Now, if the remote screen could be made portable and
weatherproof..........................

What about setting it up behind a perspex window in the cockpit bulkhead?
Not impossible, and certainly a cheap solution. All modern TFT's are
equipped for wall mounting, which makes it easy to set up.

A 19" TFT costing UK£225 is available, and could be seen from anywhere in
the cockpit provided there was enough space in the bulkhead to mount it.
Only trouble is, these things consume power like there is no tomorrow!

Now, where did I put that jigsaw..................................?


Dennis

Thank you so much Dan. That gave me a very good understandig as
well as specific advice - at a level, I understand. Very useful
indeed! Now, I've got someting to work with, so I will return to
'the lab'.

PS - I don't think Bill Gates needs some of my money, therefore -
if possible - I will work with vnc...
--
Flemming Torp
'Even the worst day sailing is better than the best day working'
....

"DC" skrev i en meddelelse
...
You will want to use VNC "server" on the laptop running your
chartplotter
software.

You will want to install VNC for PPC on the handheld. The
handheld will use
the client to connect to the server, and thus control your
laptop from the
handheld.

In order to do this you need an IP connection. This will mean
:

1) running WIFI on the laptop and PPC system.
- you can install a WIFI (802.11b) card on the PPC handheld as
either as SD
card, or in the MMC slot.
- on the laptop you have a choice of PCMCIA cards or USB
adapters for WIFI
- the advantage of WIFI is greater range
2) running a Bluetooth personal network between the laptop and
PPC system
- most common form for BT on PPC is an SD card on older PPC
handleds. Newer
ones typically have integrated BT
- for the laptop you will add a BT USB adapter if you don't
currently have
built in support for it
- the advantage of BT is lower power consumption over WIFI, but
you lose
range.

I have an Ipaq 5400 series PPC and when I enable WIFI it
seriously drains
the batteries. I leave Bluetooth always enabled since it's not
much of a
noticeable difference (the same on my cell phone, I always
leave BT
enabled).

The main point here is, as Nikki stated, you need a TCP/IP
connection and
that means some form of the above... or a physical connection
which is not
practical.

VNC (search for tight VNC as well, also free and better
performance) is not
the only solution. You could use Microsoft's own Terminal
Services on the
laptop and load the Terminal Service Client for PPC if you
wanted (to spend
money that is... because VNC is free).


If you decide on the Bluetooth solution you must make sure that
the
Bluetooth adapter (USB) that you purchase for the laptop
supports the
personal network service. Not all Bluetooth adapters are
created equal,
some have support for more services than others (for example,
my Ipaq does
not support the wireless headset profile, yet my laptop does).

Hope this helps.

R/
Dan




"Flemming Torp" fletop(kanelbolle)2rp.d(anmar)k wrote in
message
. ..
Thank you for your input. All I know, is that there is a cable
connection between the socket of my PPC and into a USB port in
my
notebook. The program is called Microsoft ActiveSync, and I
can
'see' the memory of the PPC from explorer on the notebook,
when
the PPC is in the craddle ... And via this connection I can
send
data back and forth. F.ex. synchronize Outlook, download maps
from PC to PPC.

I was naive, I understand, in assuming, that this connection
would be sufficient ... which reminds me of the old saying:
"All
complex problems has at least one simple solution, - - - that
does not work" ...

I'm really not too much worried about making the connections
totally waterproof ... if it really gets rough, I will use my
'back up system': Pencil and paper ... (+ GPS etc. in the
cabin)
... and put my PPC in the drawer. The solution I'm looking for
is
a kind of 'nice to have' ... the 'need to have' is in place!

--
Flemming Torp
'Even the worst day sailing is better than the best day
working'
...

"Nikki Locke" skrev i en meddelelse
...
Flemming Torp wrote:
As I'm very 'intrigued' by the wireless solution, I'm
curious as to what it takes to implement that set up in my
case ... I have been at the vnc homepage, which I find very
interesting, but hard to understand ... my age and my weak
background within this field - unfortunately ... If you
will
help me, I will be happy - thank you!

VNC is a cross-platform application for remote controlling
one
computer
from another. You can use any of Unix, Mac, Windows PC or
PPC
computers to
control any (or all) of the others.

The computers have to be connected together by a TCP/IP
network. In your
case, this would either involve a wireless LAN, or a network
cable (but you
would have to go to some trouble to make the connections
waterproof).

I'm not familiar with the PPC, so I don't know if it has a
network socket,
or wireless LAN. If it hasn't, then I don't think you can do
what you want.

--
Nikki Locke, Trumphurst Ltd. PC & Unix consultancy &
programming
http://www.trumphurst.com/