"Jack Erbes" skrev i en meddelelse
...
Flemming Torp wrote:

snip As I do not
want to make physical changes to this set up, and as I do
have a notebook and a PPC with a GPS (a little RoyalTek RGM
2000-thing), I'm looking for a cheap solution to my
'cockpit-chartplotter-problem' ...

Since you have a PPC and a GPS receiver for it (the RGM-2000)
you might want to look at trying out a trial version of an
application like Ozi-CE (http://www.oziexplorer.com/). Ozi-CE
may be able to use the Maptech BSB charts you have now if they
are on CD-ROMs. The BSB chart files require some conversion
for use by Ozi-CE, that can be done using the trial version of
Ozi Explorer PC (Ozi-PC).

Thank you Jack for a very thorough, relevant, and solid input!

As I understand from the Maptech site, they have an application,
that can run on my PPC. Have not yet tried, as I do not have a
lot of Maptech Maps. But my Maptech maps are on paper and on a CD
(BSB-format) with the Navigator Lite program, so the
ozi-application could also be tested. I have never tried it, just
read about it. Will have to look into this.


You may also be able to use your DLSK charts if you can import
them into Ozi-PC and calibrate them for use. Once those are
converted and calibrated they can be used with either Ozi-PC or
Ozi-CE.

Another possible avenue for using the DLSK charts is that if
you can export or save bit mapped images of the chart files,
those can be imported and calibrated with Ozi-PC (and a number
of other applications that get frequent mention here).

This is exactly, what I want! But - unfortunately - this is a
'world' I've never been into ... I have been told, that the maps
in DLSK are stored in a xxx.it - format, that is not compatible
with anything else in the world ... and I'm not in a position to
challenge this statement ... I will have to study this whole
subject in more details. I will go to the library. Maybe you have
some relevant references? I do not really know what calibration -
in this context means - so I feel I'm pretty far from the target
....


To get the most flexibility with Ozi-CE the Ozi Explorer
developer recommends also buying Ozi-Explorer for the PC. But
you may be able to get along without buying it. I purchased
Ozi-CE to use on an iPAQ 3630 and am managing fine without
having bought Ozi-PC also. I'm using Maptech BSB charts and
USGS topo maps (both come with calibration data files) and
those can be converted for use with Ozi-CE by using the
trial version of Ozi-PC. What cannot be done with the trial
version of Ozi-PC is to import and calibrate map images or edit
a map image.

Compared to my 'long term solution' or alternatives, I do not
find the prices of the two ozi-programmes prohibitive.

A nice piece of freeware that you may want to look at that also
has
good capabilities for importing and calibrating map images is
SeaClear II (http://www.sping.com/seaclear/). The process is a
little convoluted but I have been able to create routes on
SeaClear II (using Maptech BSB charts) and upload those to my
handheld GPS (which was being used with SeaClear for NMEA
input).

Sounds as a very practical solution. I will look into this. Thank
you for the link!

I could then download the routes and waypoints from the GPS
using GPS Utility (www.gpsu.co.uk/) and then import the routes
and waypoints into Ozi-CE. Once you sort through the details of
the various file formats and the like, you'll find there are a
number of GPS utilities that data to be migrated from one
platform to another.

I may understand this, when I start working with it ...


My feeling is that the iPAQ screen size is okay for navigation
in the
sense that you just glance at it occasionally to see if you're
still on
track, in the same place you that your think you are, and are
just looking at the various details of data like course, speed,
etc.

Exactly - just as a kind of 'easy reminder' --- 'are we on the
right track'?

Route planning can be done on the iPAQ but it is much better
done on a laptop or other PC with a larger screen, a mouse,
full sized keyboard, and the other bells and whistles that make
it easier and more pleasant.

Jep, I fully agree - that's why I'm after a PPC-program, that can
'run' my notebook, on which I have entered routes and waypoints
before starting etc.


If your PPC has removable media (my iPAQ uses CF cards) you can
more easily store chart files and move data around between the
PPC and PC. I can store the Ozi-CE program and data files and
hundreds of BSB charts on a 1GB CF card.


That's a nice solution. My PPC supports MMC and SD memory cards.
I have started with 256MB, but can see, that prices on memory
cards are going in the right direction ...

My primary challenge - I understand - is to learn how to
'calibrate and convert' my DLSK-maps into a format, that ozi-CE
can read ... As the boat is still packed in ice, I may have some
time during the coming weeks to study map-calibration, different
map formats, conversion programmes etc. It's a completely new
world for me - but fascinating - and a little frightening ...

That's why I was searching for at solution, where my PPC is just
a 'screen' to my notebook, where I do know the applications will
run ...

AnywayJack: Thank you so much for your comprehensive input. It
has given me a lot of inspiration - not to mention quite a few
challenges ... but "to learn what one doesn't know - is also a
kind of wisdom" ...

--
Flemming Torp
'Even the worst day sailing is better than the best day working'
....

Flemming Torp wrote:
"Jack Erbes" skrev i en meddelelse
...
Flemming Torp wrote:

snip As I do not
want to make physical changes to this set up, and as I do
have a notebook and a PPC with a GPS (a little RoyalTek RGM
2000-thing), I'm looking for a cheap solution to my
'cockpit-chartplotter-problem' ...

Since you have a PPC and a GPS receiver for it (the RGM-2000)
you might want to look at trying out a trial version of an
application like Ozi-CE (http://www.oziexplorer.com/). Ozi-CE
may be able to use the Maptech BSB charts you have now if they
are on CD-ROMs. The BSB chart files require some conversion
for use by Ozi-CE, that can be done using the trial version of
Ozi Explorer PC (Ozi-PC).

Thank you Jack for a very thorough, relevant, and solid input!

As I understand from the Maptech site, they have an application,
that can run on my PPC. Have not yet tried, as I do not have a
lot of Maptech Maps. But my Maptech maps are on paper and on a CD
(BSB-format) with the Navigator Lite program, so the
ozi-application could also be tested. I have never tried it, just
read about it. Will have to look into this.


You may also be able to use your DLSK charts if you can import
them into Ozi-PC and calibrate them for use. Once those are
converted and calibrated they can be used with either Ozi-PC or
Ozi-CE.

Another possible avenue for using the DLSK charts is that if
you can export or save bit mapped images of the chart files,
those can be imported and calibrated with Ozi-PC (and a number
of other applications that get frequent mention here).

This is exactly, what I want! But - unfortunately - this is a
'world' I've never been into ... I have been told, that the maps
in DLSK are stored in a xxx.it - format, that is not compatible
with anything else in the world ... and I'm not in a position to
challenge this statement ... I will have to study this whole
subject in more details. I will go to the library. Maybe you have
some relevant references? I do not really know what calibration -
in this context means - so I feel I'm pretty far from the target
...


To get the most flexibility with Ozi-CE the Ozi Explorer
developer recommends also buying Ozi-Explorer for the PC. But
you may be able to get along without buying it. I purchased
Ozi-CE to use on an iPAQ 3630 and am managing fine without
having bought Ozi-PC also. I'm using Maptech BSB charts and
USGS topo maps (both come with calibration data files) and
those can be converted for use with Ozi-CE by using the
trial version of Ozi-PC. What cannot be done with the trial
version of Ozi-PC is to import and calibrate map images or edit
a map image.

Compared to my 'long term solution' or alternatives, I do not
find the prices of the two ozi-programmes prohibitive.

A nice piece of freeware that you may want to look at that also
has
good capabilities for importing and calibrating map images is
SeaClear II (http://www.sping.com/seaclear/). The process is a
little convoluted but I have been able to create routes on
SeaClear II (using Maptech BSB charts) and upload those to my
handheld GPS (which was being used with SeaClear for NMEA
input).

Sounds as a very practical solution. I will look into this. Thank
you for the link!

I could then download the routes and waypoints from the GPS
using GPS Utility (www.gpsu.co.uk/) and then import the routes
and waypoints into Ozi-CE. Once you sort through the details of
the various file formats and the like, you'll find there are a
number of GPS utilities that data to be migrated from one
platform to another.

I may understand this, when I start working with it ...


My feeling is that the iPAQ screen size is okay for navigation
in the
sense that you just glance at it occasionally to see if you're
still on
track, in the same place you that your think you are, and are
just looking at the various details of data like course, speed,
etc.

Exactly - just as a kind of 'easy reminder' --- 'are we on the
right track'?

Route planning can be done on the iPAQ but it is much better
done on a laptop or other PC with a larger screen, a mouse,
full sized keyboard, and the other bells and whistles that make
it easier and more pleasant.

Jep, I fully agree - that's why I'm after a PPC-program, that can
'run' my notebook, on which I have entered routes and waypoints
before starting etc.


If your PPC has removable media (my iPAQ uses CF cards) you can
more easily store chart files and move data around between the
PPC and PC. I can store the Ozi-CE program and data files and
hundreds of BSB charts on a 1GB CF card.


That's a nice solution. My PPC supports MMC and SD memory cards.
I have started with 256MB, but can see, that prices on memory
cards are going in the right direction ...

My primary challenge - I understand - is to learn how to
'calibrate and convert' my DLSK-maps into a format, that ozi-CE
can read ... As the boat is still packed in ice, I may have some
time during the coming weeks to study map-calibration, different
map formats, conversion programmes etc. It's a completely new
world for me - but fascinating - and a little frightening ...

That's why I was searching for at solution, where my PPC is just
a 'screen' to my notebook, where I do know the applications will
run ...

AnywayJack: Thank you so much for your comprehensive input. It
has given me a lot of inspiration - not to mention quite a few
challenges ... but "to learn what one doesn't know - is also a
kind of wisdom" ...

--
Flemming Torp
'Even the worst day sailing is better than the best day working'
...
There is a lot of stuff about chartplotting on a PDA on the Oziexplorer
website under Oziexplorer CE.

I used their stuff on my Ipaq a couple of years ago, but I'm afraid the 1400
by 1050 screen on my laptop simply made the PDA look stupid, so I sold the
Ipaq!

I know your problem, but so far only a high-intensity screen in the cockpit,
connected to the laptop either wirelessly on by cable, would be
satisfactory, and as you could also use a wireless mouse (most chartplotting
is done by mouse anyway), you would have almost complete control.

These waterproof daylight screens are unbelievably expensive. The last time
I checked them out they were around $5000, so I would advise a good surf
around to see whether they have come down.

My wireless mouse is a Silver Crest, and it's a real cracker.


Dennis.
--
Satellite photocharts of the UK & Ireland
available, excellent detail and accurate
calibration using Oziexplorer.
Remove *nospam* to reply.

"Dennis Pogson" skrev i en
meddelelse ...
Flemming Torp wrote:
snip
"Jack Erbes" skrev i en meddelelse
...
Flemming Torp wrote:


'unsnip'

My primary challenge - I understand - is to learn how to
'calibrate and convert' my DLSK-maps into a format, that
ozi-CE
can read ... As the boat is still packed in ice, I may have
some
time during the coming weeks to study map-calibration,
different
map formats, conversion programmes etc. It's a completely new
world for me - but fascinating - and a little frightening ...

That's why I was searching for at solution, where my PPC is
just
a 'screen' to my notebook, where I do know the applications
will
run ...

AnywayJack: Thank you so much for your comprehensive input. It
has given me a lot of inspiration - not to mention quite a few
challenges ... but "to learn what one doesn't know - is also
a
kind of wisdom" ...

--
Flemming Torp
'Even the worst day sailing is better than the best day
working'
...
There is a lot of stuff about chartplotting on a PDA on the
Oziexplorer
website under Oziexplorer CE.


Thanks, I will start my 'study tour' in the 'ozi-world'

I used their stuff on my Ipaq a couple of years ago, but I'm
afraid the 1400
by 1050 screen on my laptop simply made the PDA look stupid, so
I sold the
Ipaq!

I know your problem, but so far only a high-intensity screen in
the cockpit,
connected to the laptop either wirelessly on by cable, would be
satisfactory, and as you could also use a wireless mouse (most
chartplotting
is done by mouse anyway), you would have almost complete
control.

These waterproof daylight screens are unbelievably expensive.
The last time
I checked them out they were around $5000, so I would advise a
good surf
around to see whether they have come down.

My wireless mouse is a Silver Crest, and it's a real cracker.


I agree - and right now, I'm after a short term solution, with
the hardware I have, and under al circumstances will have on the
boat anyway ... you know mail, internet surf, calender etc. And I
want to keep my notebook free from the salt water, that is hard
to avoid in the cockpit ...

As to 'daylight monitors', I can give you an example: In Denmark
the RayMarine Monitor - M 1500 - is priced at DKK 52.000,-. Five
years ago, I bought a swedish 30' sailboat - 3,5t - called Albin
Ballad - http://ballad.dk/ - with 13 sails, ready to sail for DKK
150.000,-! A monitor at one third of a half tonner boat ... ...
Today one U$ equals DKK 5,70 ... ...

Dennis.
--
Satellite photocharts of the UK & Ireland
available, excellent detail and accurate
calibration using Oziexplorer.
Remove *nospam* to reply.


Dennis, thank you for your advice!
--
Flemming Torp
'Even the worst day sailing is better than the best day working'
....

Flemming Torp wrote:
snip
Thank you Jack for a very thorough, relevant, and solid input!

You're welcome, I'm seeing this on rec.boats.electronics and it is a
group that knows a lot and will share it helpfully. I've learned a lot
here too.

Another newsgroup that may be a little more focused on gps, navigation,
and some of the details of your questions here is sci.geo.satellite-nav.
I think there is more discussion there of the specific devices and
processes you want to do.

snip
This is exactly, what I want! But - unfortunately - this is a 'world'
I've never been into ... I have been told, that the maps in DLSK are
stored in a xxx.it - format, that is not compatible with anything else
in the world ... and I'm not in a position to challenge this statement
... I will have to study this whole subject in more details. I will go
to the library. Maybe you have some relevant references?

I don't really have any library references, what I know has been learned
through experience, newsgroups, web pages, and just playing around with it.

I do not really
know what calibration - in this context means - so I feel I'm pretty far
from the target ....

It is not that complicated, after all I think I get it. :)

If you download SeaClear II and look around on that web site, there are
several documentation files that will give you the basics of calibration
and how to do it. The Ozi-PC trial version also has a good explanation
of it. I am getting more comfortable with map calibration but am far
from an expert and have not used it much. Basically it is mapping the
x,y pixels in a map image file to a geographical reference system. You
tell the program the lat/long postion of a number of specific pixels
that are at known geographic points and the program then maps all the
other pixels to that geographical reference system. That is a
simplistic explanation and maybe not even quite correct.

Compared to my 'long term solution' or alternatives, I do not find the
prices of the two ozi-programmes prohibitive.

That was my feeling when I bought it, I consider it a real bargain at
the price.

snip

I may understand this, when I start working with it ...

I think you will, I felt the same way when I started but wanting to do
it and being stubborn will overcome a lot of ignorance.

snip
That's a nice solution. My PPC supports MMC and SD memory cards. I have
started with 256MB, but can see, that prices on memory cards are going
in the right direction ...

My primary challenge - I understand - is to learn how to 'calibrate and
convert' my DLSK-maps into a format, that ozi-CE can read ... As the
boat is still packed in ice, I may have some time during the coming
weeks to study map-calibration, different map formats, conversion
programmes etc. It's a completely new world for me - but fascinating -
and a little frightening ...

By it being mentioned on these groups, I would be surprised if someone
who has already done it does not speak up. There is a image file format
called tiff/it that may have something in common with your DLSK files.
It may be that you already have a bit mapped image file but that it does
not have a common name. It may just need to be "figured out".

If you familiarize yourself with map calibration with Ozi and SeaClear
and have more questions, I recommend you try asking them on the
sci.geo.satellite-nav newsgroup. I think you'll hit a little better
audience for the question there.

Good luck, feel free to email me off the group also if you think I can
be helpful.

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)

"Jack Erbes" skrev i en meddelelse
...
snip

Another newsgroup that may be a little more focused on gps,
navigation, and some of the details of your questions here is
sci.geo.satellite-nav. I think there is more discussion there
of the specific devices and processes you want to do.


I'm aware of that group too. The reason for 'entering' boats' is
that the first input came from a sailor using this newgroup, be
I'm afraid, that he does not use it regularly ...

snip

If you download SeaClear II and look around on that web site,
there are several documentation files that will give you the
basics of calibration and how to do it.

snip

Yes - I will try to be patient and take the time ...

By it being mentioned on these groups, I would be surprised if
someone who has already done it does not speak up.

snip

Very recently, I received an answer in the Danish newsgroup about
the possibility og converting the format of DLSK til some kind of
ozi-readable format. The answer is no - it is a 'very'
proprietary format!

Good luck, feel free to email me off the group also if you
think I can be helpful.

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot
net

(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)

Thank you very much for your support.

--
Flemming Torp
'Even the worst day sailing is better than the best day working'
....

Flemming Torp wrote:
snip
Thank you Jack for a very thorough, relevant, and solid input!

You're welcome, I'm seeing this on rec.boats.electronics and it is a
group that knows a lot and will share it helpfully. I've learned a lot
here too.

Another newsgroup that may be a little more focused on gps, navigation,
and some of the details of your questions here is sci.geo.satellite-nav.
I think there is more discussion there of the specific devices and
processes you want to do.

snip
This is exactly, what I want! But - unfortunately - this is a 'world'
I've never been into ... I have been told, that the maps in DLSK are
stored in a xxx.it - format, that is not compatible with anything else
in the world ... and I'm not in a position to challenge this statement
... I will have to study this whole subject in more details. I will go
to the library. Maybe you have some relevant references?

I don't really have any library references, what I know has been learned
through experience, newsgroups, web pages, and just playing around with it.

I do not really
know what calibration - in this context means - so I feel I'm pretty far
from the target ....

It is not that complicated, after all I think I get it. :)

If you download SeaClear II and look around on that web site, there are
several documentation files that will give you the basics of calibration
and how to do it. The Ozi-PC trial version also has a good explanation
of it. I am getting more comfortable with map calibration but am far
from an expert and have not used it much. Basically it is mapping the
x,y pixels in a map image file to a geographical reference system. You
tell the program the lat/long postion of a number of specific pixels
that are at known geographic points and the program then maps all the
other pixels to that geographical reference system. That is a
simplistic explanation and maybe not even quite correct.

Compared to my 'long term solution' or alternatives, I do not find the
prices of the two ozi-programmes prohibitive.

That was my feeling when I bought it, I consider it a real bargain at
the price.

snip

I may understand this, when I start working with it ...

I think you will, I felt the same way when I started but wanting to do
it and being stubborn will overcome a lot of ignorance.

snip
That's a nice solution. My PPC supports MMC and SD memory cards. I have
started with 256MB, but can see, that prices on memory cards are going
in the right direction ...

My primary challenge - I understand - is to learn how to 'calibrate and
convert' my DLSK-maps into a format, that ozi-CE can read ... As the
boat is still packed in ice, I may have some time during the coming
weeks to study map-calibration, different map formats, conversion
programmes etc. It's a completely new world for me - but fascinating -
and a little frightening ...

By it being mentioned on these groups, I would be surprised if someone
who has already done it does not speak up. There is a image file format
called tiff/it that may have something in common with your DLSK files.
It may be that you already have a bit mapped image file but that it does
not have a common name. It may just need to be "figured out".

If you familiarize yourself with map calibration with Ozi and SeaClear
and have more questions, I recommend you try asking them on the
sci.geo.satellite-nav newsgroup. I think you'll hit a little better
audience for the question there.

Good luck, feel free to email me off the group also if you think I can
be helpful.

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)