Well, at least I know there is interest out there (and of course, there
are those who aren't interested, thanks for your input too). Thanks
for the great info, everone!

Just some things that I've learned and I'll share.

- Johnhh, the VIA is a little slower, definitely, but I've found it to
be more than sufficient for most everyday tasks, and it exceeds most
hardware requirements for navigation programs (everything I've seen
except for Nobeltec's Admiral "recommended" hardware, it blows away the
minimum requirements). Even Pentium M's can't meet Admiral's
recommended hardware. I've looked at Pentium M, but I think the cost
isn't worth it. It would jack up the price by a couple hundred and the
performance gain isn't really worth it. Of course, people know
"Pentium" though.

- I looked at Shuttle, but they seem to have focused on Pentium 4
processors. The problem is power consumption there. The P4 chip
itself can draw 70-90 Watts, my whole system draws ~25W at idle, ~50 at
peak performance. VIA runs cooler and much more efficient.

- Embedded OS is a great idea. I don't know much about Win XP
Embedded, but I'll definitely be looking at that. I know there are
devices that allow you to boot a PC from CF card, just like any IDE
drive, I just thought they were too small for Win XP (the largest I've
seen is 2 GB). Maybe Embedded gets around that.

- Currently, I'm using a 2.5" disk in a shock-resistant mounting
bracket (exactly like you said, Meindert). It's worked well so far.
Power consumption is minimal, and I think negligible if we're talking
about P4 chips. I did an experiment recently, where I installed 2 2.5"
drives, ran a stress test and measured power consumption, then I
removed one drive and ran the same test. I couldn't see a noticeable
difference (on an analog ammeter, maybe I'd have seen a difference on
digital, regarless, it was minimal if anything). The manufacturer says
it consumes .6 W at idle (no measurement at peak), so spinning drives
that aren't being accessed really isn't as big a problem as one might
think, at least not with this drive. One recent customer had 2 drives,
one for everyday access, the other for backup. This kept power
consumption to a minimum.

Eric

Look at : http://www.logicsupply.com/

I have gotten the Venus 668 case with a VIA CL-10000 and also a VIA
SP-13000. I put in a 12v dc -dc converter from Ituner and have been
using it on my boat for 1 1/2 yrs..

Hanz

wrote:

Most boaters use laptops for onboard computing, but I want to see what
this group thinks about using a more permanent PC solution? My opinion
is that laptops work fine most of the time, but they aren't really
designed for life on the water unless you go with a very expensive
ruggedized version.

I have to be honest, so here's my "full disclosure". I started a
company about a year ago to build and sell marine PCs (not laptops) to
the recreational boating community. Out of respect for the newsgroup
format, I'm not going to advertise here. I'm using my personal email
address, not my business one. I'm just looking for ideas. Call it
market research.

I am interested in the general reaction and acceptance of the boating
community to the idea of replacing their laptops with a more rugged and
marine-focused solution. Would you consider it? Are you aleady doing
it? If not, what kind of features might change your mind? If you are
out there now just looking for the right marine PC system, what
features are you looking for?

Just FYI, my system currently includes "marine" features that are
inspired from my own experiences and research, such as regulated 12VDC
input, shock & vibration resistance, conformally coated circuit boards,
and a small footprint (it's about the size of a shoebox). What else may
be useful on your boat?

Thanks in advance for any ideas!

- I looked at Shuttle, but they seem to have focused on Pentium 4
processors. The problem is power consumption there.

Not completely true. I have a shuttle with an Athelon processor. Bought the Shuttle and processor from New Egg. Uses the heat pipe cooling system and runs at around 2GHz. Fine machine and quite!

HTH

Vic



--
__________________________________________________ ______

Victor Fraenckel - The Windman
victorf ATSIGN windreader DOTcom
KC2GUI

Home of the WindReader Electronic Theodolite
Read the WIND

I guess it comes down to what is sufficient. I built a VIA M10000 system
for this purpose and am not happy with it. You are going to be very hard
put to compete with one of these 10" Pentium M based laptops that with the
monitor are as small if not smaller than my ITX system, quieter and as
energy efficient. Put it into a port replicate (or not into one) under the
chart table or in a cabinet and you have the same thing only faster and you
can pull it out and take it to the internet cafe.

For now, I am using my monster laptop with the WUXGA display. I don't
intend on using a PC for navigation or anything critical because I don't
trust them enough. I use them for route planning and all that fun stuff.
And least you think I am a technophobe, I'm not, I am a recently retired
software engineer.

That said, I am a PC junky and can't resist toying with all this stuff.
Even not using it for critical functions, I feel the need for at least two
PCs on board if not three. I might start quivering and shaking if the only
one I had died.

By the way, did anyone mention printing? I am using one of those Canon
portables, can't remeber the number right off, but so far it has been
awsome. Battery powered and with bluetooth it lives in a cabinet and when I
need to use it, just pull it out, pop it open, turn it on, put it on the
table with some paper and I'm printing. Thirty seconds from waterproof bag
to printing.

I wish you luck on this poroject. I may be a customer some day.

John

wrote in message
oups.com...
Well, at least I know there is interest out there (and of course, there
are those who aren't interested, thanks for your input too). Thanks
for the great info, everone!

Just some things that I've learned and I'll share.

- Johnhh, the VIA is a little slower, definitely, but I've found it to
be more than sufficient for most everyday tasks, and it exceeds most
hardware requirements for navigation programs (everything I've seen
except for Nobeltec's Admiral "recommended" hardware, it blows away the
minimum requirements). Even Pentium M's can't meet Admiral's
recommended hardware. I've looked at Pentium M, but I think the cost
isn't worth it. It would jack up the price by a couple hundred and the
performance gain isn't really worth it. Of course, people know
"Pentium" though.

- I looked at Shuttle, but they seem to have focused on Pentium 4
processors. The problem is power consumption there. The P4 chip
itself can draw 70-90 Watts, my whole system draws ~25W at idle, ~50 at
peak performance. VIA runs cooler and much more efficient.

- Embedded OS is a great idea. I don't know much about Win XP
Embedded, but I'll definitely be looking at that. I know there are
devices that allow you to boot a PC from CF card, just like any IDE
drive, I just thought they were too small for Win XP (the largest I've
seen is 2 GB). Maybe Embedded gets around that.

- Currently, I'm using a 2.5" disk in a shock-resistant mounting
bracket (exactly like you said, Meindert). It's worked well so far.
Power consumption is minimal, and I think negligible if we're talking
about P4 chips. I did an experiment recently, where I installed 2 2.5"
drives, ran a stress test and measured power consumption, then I
removed one drive and ran the same test. I couldn't see a noticeable
difference (on an analog ammeter, maybe I'd have seen a difference on
digital, regarless, it was minimal if anything). The manufacturer says
it consumes .6 W at idle (no measurement at peak), so spinning drives
that aren't being accessed really isn't as big a problem as one might
think, at least not with this drive. One recent customer had 2 drives,
one for everyday access, the other for backup. This kept power
consumption to a minimum.

Eric

wrote:
Most boaters use laptops for onboard computing, but I want to see what
this group thinks about using a more permanent PC solution? My
opinion is that laptops work fine most of the time, but they aren't
really designed for life on the water unless you go with a very
expensive ruggedized version.

I have to be honest, so here's my "full disclosure". I started a
company about a year ago to build and sell marine PCs (not laptops) to
the recreational boating community. Out of respect for the newsgroup
format, I'm not going to advertise here. I'm using my personal email
address, not my business one. I'm just looking for ideas. Call it
market research.

I am interested in the general reaction and acceptance of the boating
community to the idea of replacing their laptops with a more rugged
and marine-focused solution. Would you consider it? Are you aleady
doing it? If not, what kind of features might change your mind? If
you are out there now just looking for the right marine PC system,
what features are you looking for?

Just FYI, my system currently includes "marine" features that are
inspired from my own experiences and research, such as regulated 12VDC
input, shock & vibration resistance, conformally coated circuit
boards, and a small footprint (it's about the size of a shoebox).
What else may be useful on your boat?

Thanks in advance for any ideas!

I like the word "semi" in the title. The implications are in line with most
PC installations, and suggest that when the next Wonderbox comes out, we
will all ditch the old technology and re-install the new. About 6 months
perhaps?

I have been toying with the same as a hobby project.

The wishlist in short:

- Low power
- Suitable for marine use. Well engineered and splash proof.
- No moving parts, possibly except HDD. Certainly no fans.
- Low power
- Open source software. We do not want the machine to die 10 days from port
due to some MS virus or other hazzle.
- Server facilities as on-board e-mail server, DHCP, DNS, printer, file, X
etc for connected crew lap tops and others.
- Lots of I/O
- Low power
- Supporting logging, navigation, automation etc on board
- Providing entertainement, DVD, MP3, e-books etc
- Low power
- Automatic e-mail forwarding and fetching via SSB, GPRS, Satellite, WLAN or
whatever is available, cheep and chereful at the time
- Low power

and finally

- Low power

One could also think of having a second low power battery operated wireless
thin client in cockpit while sailing near land for navigation, radar image
or similar.

ottar

A normal windows installation will
wear out the flash disk in no time.

You have me puzzled here. How does it "wear out" solid state?


You'll need XP Embedded to make
sure it does not write registry, log and swapfiles files to the
flashdisk "millisecond".

What is wrong with writing data to a flash drive? I use them to move
data between computers anyway. They can hold with power off and
unplugged.

Unless I am misunderstanding what you are saying?

wrote in message
...
A normal windows installation will
wear out the flash disk in no time.

You have me puzzled here. How does it "wear out" solid state?

Because a solid-state flash disk has a limited number of write/erase cycles
per sector of 100,000 to 1,000,000 times. So having windows put a swapfile
on that, or any other temporary file will make the flash disk reach that
number in no time.

You'll need XP Embedded to make
sure it does not write registry, log and swapfiles files to the
flashdisk "millisecond".

What is wrong with writing data to a flash drive? I use them to move
data between computers anyway. They can hold with power off and
unplugged.

Unless I am misunderstanding what you are saying?

Yes. Writing data to flash is ok. But having an OS putting temporary files
on a flash disk that are write thousands of times during one session is bad.

Meindert

In article ,
wrote:

You have me puzzled here. How does it "wear out" solid state?

Flash type memory has a finite number of read/write cycles after which
it is prone to failure. (Stuck bits, ect) Most are above the 100K cycle
range, these days, so if your constantly doing Read/Writes to flash
memory eventually it will fail, and leave you with a blown OS. OEM's
spec the MTBF for each part in the literiture.

Me

I am using one of those Canon
portables, can't remeber the number right off,

I am interested when you can take a look.