Nice Post Mark. Thanks

"markvictor" wrote in message
oups.com...
OK Marc,
These are the facts: first,on your incoming shorepower ground,you
would take care of any "stray current" problems caused by the marina or
other boats by installing a galvanic isolator....sometimes called a
zinc saver...almost all in-water boats made today have them installed
OEM...Second, your AC ground absolutely SHOULD be connected to the DC
ground buss, at 1 location only, to prevent ground loops....Why? Some
of these other posters have forgotten that just because you are not
connected to shore power,does not mean there is no AC power
present....ie.gensets and inverters....A gfi will do absolutely
nothing if there is no true earth ground, and if away from the dock,
that ground is seawater,via the ship ground(shaft, bonding system,
thru-hulls etc. Without that AC ground connection, you can become part
of the ground circuit if a fault occurs. That said, you should have a
seperate buss for each of the following: a neg. DC buss, a ship's
GROUND buss, and an AC ground buss...Note that the DC neg buss is for
connecting dc equipment to battery negative, the ship's GROUND buss is
for bonding all equipment and machinery and the protective anodes
together. Why connect the two? because in the event of a bad neg. DC
connection, say to an engine block, it prevents The DC current from
seeking an alternate path to the starter etc through seawater and the
bonding system itself. Therefore there should be 1 bond between the neg
DC and the ship's ground buss, and 1 bond between the AC ground buss
and either 1)neg DC buss, or 2) (preferred) Ship's ground buss. This is
not debateable or optional....it is absolutely necessary for
safety...Period.
If you have problems with rapid zinc consumption, you need to do a
complete corrosion survey with the proper equipment to determine the
source of the problem. Disconnecting the bond is like turning up the
stereo to make an engine noise go away...Someone else remarked about
the NEC and metal enclosures and sparks...He is wrong! each breaker IS
ignition protected...they don't use metal enclosures due to weight and
corrosion issues...This is a BOAT not a BUILDING, he needs to
familiarize himself with ABYC and Lloyd's Standards, they are the
applicable codes, and in almost all cases more stringent than the
NEC.,but written for the marine environment, not sitting on a piece of
dirt... Your SSB antenna better not be grounded or you'll cook your
radio the first time you send modulation.
SSB signals bounce off ground(called a counterpoise) which is seawater
connected by an RF ground, your bonding and thru hull system, a steel
hull, a metal fuel tank, or a dynaplate. This reflects the ssb signal
skyward. Marc, do it once and do it right...remember that your boat is
your total life support system when you're at sea... you can't walk out
the front door when there's a problem....think about that before taking
shortcuts or cutting corners to save money.
And not to stir up things, but I can tell you with certainty.....Listen
to Chuck, and forget
anything that Larry posted....Chuck is right on target,and knows
boats.....Guys like Larry are
responsible for a large portion of my income...
I have no problem correcting mistakes at $85.00/hour.. I'm not spouting
steam at you, I have over 25 years in the marine industry primarily in
electrical and electronics and plenty of schools and certs. It's
cheaper to do it right! Good Luck!
markvictor

Thanks John,
I hate to see people get screwed up by bad info..
One of the most common things I hear on service calls is "my buddy
hooked it up for me" or "my buddy said all I had to do was..."
I hate to tell them, but he's not their buddy, he's MY buddy!
Sad but true.....
markvictor

In article .com,
"markvictor" wrote:

Your SSB antenna better not be grounded or you'll cook your
radio the first time you send modulation.
SSB signals bounce off ground(called a counterpoise) which is seawater
connected by an RF ground, your bonding and thru hull system, a steel
hull, a metal fuel tank, or a dynaplate. This reflects the ssb signal
skyward.

I just wish that folks who give advice about MF/HF Radio Antenna Systems
ACTUALLY knew what they were talking about BEFORE they posted extainious
BS that has little basis in fact.


Me

Well "me", since you are anonymous I can only assume you can't back
your play...Tell me where the antenna ground is on a longwire or a
backstay. and tell me where the ground conductor is in GTO-15...do you
know what that is? Or perhaps you are referring to the TUNER.... which
IS connected to your ground... is that what "me" is thinking about?
Perhaps I should clarify for you the difference between antenna and
antenna system, would that make you feel better? Yes, I did simplify my
explanation of counterpoise but that was not the issue at hand; the
issue was grounding the antenna which I again will emphatically repeat
IS NOT GROUNDED! If you don't accept this I dare you to take the
insulators out of your backstay and show us what a little modulation
will do....with your radio, of course,not mine...Ground your
tuner?...Absolutely! ....Ground your antenna?....Not mine,thank you....
And FYI "me", I hold an F.C.C. General Radiotelephone Operator's
License with endorsements, I am a certified bench tech and am working
on my broadcast engineering cert. And you might want to use spell
check...."extainious"???
This isn't Harry, is it?
markvictor

I guess I was responsible for first saying 'ground the antenna.' I was
thinking the counterpoise and was sloppy in my terminology. I am strictly a
novice, but I do know better than to ground the antenna itself just like I
am not foolish enough to think I can ground anything to a plastic hull.

John

"markvictor" wrote in message
oups.com...
Well "me", since you are anonymous I can only assume you can't back
your play...Tell me where the antenna ground is on a longwire or a
backstay. and tell me where the ground conductor is in GTO-15...do you
know what that is? Or perhaps you are referring to the TUNER.... which
IS connected to your ground... is that what "me" is thinking about?
Perhaps I should clarify for you the difference between antenna and
antenna system, would that make you feel better? Yes, I did simplify my
explanation of counterpoise but that was not the issue at hand; the
issue was grounding the antenna which I again will emphatically repeat
IS NOT GROUNDED! If you don't accept this I dare you to take the
insulators out of your backstay and show us what a little modulation
will do....with your radio, of course,not mine...Ground your
tuner?...Absolutely! ....Ground your antenna?....Not mine,thank you....
And FYI "me", I hold an F.C.C. General Radiotelephone Operator's
License with endorsements, I am a certified bench tech and am working
on my broadcast engineering cert. And you might want to use spell
check...."extainious"???
This isn't Harry, is it?
markvictor

In article .com,
"markvictor" wrote:

Well "me", since you are anonymous I can only assume you can't back
your play...

snipped for brevity

And FYI "me", I hold an F.C.C. General Radiotelephone Operator's
License with endorsements, I am a certified bench tech and am working
on my broadcast engineering cert. And you might want to use spell
check...."extainious"???
This isn't Harry, is it?
markvictor


Well as long as your looking to compare "Wall Paper", it would seem,
your just a novice, in the Marine Electronics Field. I have held FCC
licenses for over 40 years, both RadioTelephone and RadioTelegraph
and First Class for both. I have an Aircraft Endorsement, as well
as Sea Time Endosements on the Telegraph ticket, and Radar Endorsements
on both. I have more time in the field of Marine Electronics than
you probubly have been alive. I have worked for the biggest OEM in
MF/HF Communications in the North Pacific, back in the day. Spent
more summers, traveling in Alaska, doing radio system design and
installation, and am the LAST of the Alaska Cannery Radiomen.
I have been an FCC Resident Field Agent, and done more SOLAS Inspections
of Title III Part II and Part III Vessels, than you have ever seen, let
alone actually been aboard. I started my career in Broadcasting before
switching to twoway, and left that field as Chief Engineer, of a 10Kw
AM/FM Station, and that was back before anyone knew about SolidState
Broadcast Transmitters, and folks dealt with REAL Big tubes and water
cooled finals. The above doesn't include any of the Papers that I have
around here somewhere, with NABER/PCIA Logos all over them, either.

I have known and worked with the best MF/HF Radiomen in Commercial
Service. These guys MADE MF/HF Communications. The likes of Ed
Parsens, Dan Farley, Dick Stephens, Eddie Zanbergen, Len Miller, Don
Hollingsworth Sr. & Jr., Bill Forgey, Bruce Gordon, Mac McPhereson,
Billy Pulse, Mark Johnson, Ed Shilling, Dennis Seth, and many, many,
more, over the years.

Sonny, your a bush league'er, and not a very good one at that. When you
figure out what a "Counterpoise" actually is, and does, and what the
difference between it and RF Ground is, and why these are required for a
Marconi Antenna to function, then maybe, if you can actually do the math
required, to explain all the above to a High School Physics Class, THEN
you will have made a, very small, dent in the Knowledge Base of RF
Communications. Untill then, best you study and learn the basics of the
field, you seem to have choosen for a career.


Me just an "Old Fart" in semi-retirment........

I humbly bow in respect to an old fart!
But your antenna is Still not grounded....

Gotcha....
It sure has ruffled "me's" feathers...

Or would it be more acceptable if I said the radiating component of
your antenna system?

"markvictor" wrote in message
oups.com...
I humbly bow in respect to an old fart!
But your antenna is Still not grounded....


I humbly bow in respect to an old fart!

I think he's constipated. Happens sometimes when you get older. Makes a
person snippy and ornery.