Al Thomason wrote in
news
I think that would not be a problem. On my House Bank, I have a
master isolation switch. The LN alternator is connected to the
'downward' side of this switch. So, opening the Master switch causes
all to be disconnected from the house battery, including the LN
alternator. (All except the bilge pumps, they are wired directly to
the House Battery with separate wiring)


Even moving the master switch, inadvertently or not, will guarantee the
running alternator will blow every piece of electronics running on the now-
open-circuited alternator(s) permanently connected to them. Even a little
terminal corrosion on the switch will make it happen, bigtime....

Why don't people connect the alternator through a suitable fuse, directly
to the battery, and switch only the field or external regulator power with
the engine switch, like it's supposed to be, so this doesn't happen and
cause some very expensive service???.... If the alternator shorts a diode,
it blows the alternator fuse...no harm done.

How many of you connected to the master switch like this have an alternator
fused at 50% over its generating capacity?....Fess up!

Good point. I will have to think about that.... Reason I did it this
way was to allow for the bat switch to cut off all power, usefull when
I need to work around the alternator as well as the DC generator. But
I like your point.

-al-

On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 10:35:27 -0500, Larry wrote:

He's correct. No car or truck on the street has some $4000 supercharger
computerized charging system sold to affluent yachties at amazing profits.
They all seem to function just fine for years and years.

There is a BIG difference between the charging requirements of a car
versus a boat. When things are working normally on a car the battery
never gets deep cycled. The only charging that takes place is for the
relatively small amount of power drawn during engine cranking. After
that the alternator supplies all of the power needed and the battery
just floats across the output, usually at about 13.8 volts.

On a boat however, the house bank routinely gets deeply discharged,
often to as low as 50% of capacity. To replace that amount of power
as quickly as possible, 3 stage charging is required.

Wayne.B wrote:
There is a BIG difference between the charging requirements of a car
versus a boat. When things are working normally on a car the battery
never gets deep cycled. The only charging that takes place is for the
relatively small amount of power drawn during engine cranking. After
that the alternator supplies all of the power needed and the battery
just floats across the output, usually at about 13.8 volts.

On a boat however, the house bank routinely gets deeply discharged,
often to as low as 50% of capacity. To replace that amount of power
as quickly as possible, 3 stage charging is required.

i don't know what use a charge controller is if you have a voltage
regulator, such as on an alternator. a charge controller, at least in
a solar panel install, is just there to regulate voltage and current,
because solar panels can put out upwards to 16 to 17 volts on a cool
clear day and that would be high enough to damage your batteries over
time. so with solar panels the charge controller's job is to make the
solar panel work like an alternator, supplying the voltage and amps
needed to properly recharge the batteries.

purple_stars wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:

There is a BIG difference between the charging requirements of a car
versus a boat. When things are working normally on a car the battery
never gets deep cycled. The only charging that takes place is for the
relatively small amount of power drawn during engine cranking. After
that the alternator supplies all of the power needed and the battery
just floats across the output, usually at about 13.8 volts.

On a boat however, the house bank routinely gets deeply discharged,
often to as low as 50% of capacity. To replace that amount of power
as quickly as possible, 3 stage charging is required.


i don't know what use a charge controller is if you have a voltage
regulator, such as on an alternator. a charge controller, at least in
a solar panel install, is just there to regulate voltage and current,
because solar panels can put out upwards to 16 to 17 volts on a cool
clear day and that would be high enough to damage your batteries over
time. so with solar panels the charge controller's job is to make the
solar panel work like an alternator, supplying the voltage and amps
needed to properly recharge the batteries.

Maybe you need to read regulators 101.
http://www.sailnet.com/collections/a...eid=caseyd0081
krj

Wayne.B wrote in
:

On a boat however, the house bank routinely gets deeply discharged,
often to as low as 50% of capacity. To replace that amount of power
as quickly as possible, 3 stage charging is required.



I'll take the bait.....

In the yard out front is a Chevy-based diesel stepvan, made for you
taxpayers by Union City Body in TN for the Air Force. When I bought it,
I added two L-16H deep cycle beasts in a custom-made box in the driver's
footwell, a useless space. The van is my electronics shop and has two
500W Tripplite inverters to run lighting, equipment, etc. It also has a
60A supply to two 400W bridged audio power amps I use in the DJ Biz where
there is no available AC and we don't want the Honda 3000i genset noise.

It gets deep cycled, regularly, and has for a couple of years. They're
regular golf cart batteries, not some exotic $800 AGM. There are two
AGMs in parallel the government installed to crank the 6.2L GM diesel V-8
up under the hood. One of them melted when the guaze shorted out and
Batteries Plus replaced it with another one that didn't cost me much.

Between the house batteries and the starting batteries is a 250A Guest
ON-OFF switch that simply parallels all the battery banks for charging
off the ordinary, everyday, 80A, Delco, internally-regulated alternator
on the GM diesel beast.

IF I have AC power, I charge them all, again in parallel, with the
unregulated, simple 40A AC charger Cap'n Geoffrey gave me off the Amel
when he installed an automatic Guest charger to replace it. The Amel
charger is simply a tapped transformer, a 50A rectifier with a switch
that selects "Low" "Medium or "High" on 115 or 230VAC, changing the tap
arrangement for the various countries and guestimated loads. It has 3
stage charging! You start on HIGH then downshift, if you think about it,
to MEDIUM or LOW when the gravity comes up...(c; You wouldn't want it,
like he didn't, because it has no shutoff when the cells are charged.

Those silly L-16Hs have just wonderful gravity readings and can run the
whole DJ station, computers/monitors/preamps/processors/big power amps
for just hours and hours......and have for years.

And I don't have a $4000 charger to keep them that way. What nonsense.

krj wrote in news:rlJKf.1275$u%.1221
@bignews1.bellsouth.net:

sailnet.com

From people who sold (past tense) expensive regulators and chargers....(c;

krj wrote:
[snip]
Maybe you need to read regulators 101.
http://www.sailnet.com/collections/a...eid=caseyd0081
krj

that article is dumb. it sounds alarmist, like suddenly the world of
batteries and voltage regulation has ran into a new problem that needs
to be solved by 3 way chargers and PWM. they are making up a problem
so that they can solve it. it reminds me of acid reflux disease ...
something we used to call being a pig and eating too damn much then
getting indigestion all the time. but this new acid reflux disease
sure sells a lot of purple pills.

simple fact is, batteries have been charging a long time without these
battery chargers. period. and the batteries don't go bad unless you
don't maintain them, that is, you let the electrolyte level get down on
the plates and/or leave it there for a long time, discharged. then you
get sulfate on the plates and it won't take a charge. but even that's
not the end of the world since you can hook it up to a high current
source and gas a lot of the sulfate off of the plates and "recondition"
the batteries just by making it froth up vigorously.

the article is insincere, it even has terms like "over-charging". what
is that ? i mean really! your battery is made of plates of metal
inside of an acid solution inside of a box. what exactly is getting
over-charged ? what's going to happen ? the plates are going to
suddenly stop being made out of lead ? the acid is going to suddenly
stop being acidic ? the box is going to stop being a box ? i mean
what is this "over-charging" anyway ? the worst thing that's going to
happen is that you're going to create some hydrogen gas and have to put
water in more often ... the hydrogen isn't a problem because a good
install already has good ventilation. and as far as the vigorous broth
you're making in the batteries by "over-charging" (at the extreme) ...
that's a GOOD THING! why would you want to stop that ? if you've got
power to waste, OVER-CHARGE and get rid of some of the sulfate on the
plates already. and then in the article they turn right around ..
right after talking about over-charging, and then say it's a good thing
by giving it the name "equalization"!!!! i mean come on!!!! it's the
same damn thing!!! lol. i mean what kind of snake oil is this when you
say over-charging is a bad thing because it gasses off your electrolyte
and then turn right around and say "equalization" is a good thing!!!
it's the same thing!!!! lol.

purple_stars wrote:

krj wrote:
[snip]

Maybe you need to read regulators 101.
http://www.sailnet.com/collections/a...eid=caseyd0081
krj


that article is dumb. it sounds alarmist, like suddenly the world of
batteries and voltage regulation has ran into a new problem that needs
to be solved by 3 way chargers and PWM. they are making up a problem
so that they can solve it. it reminds me of acid reflux disease ...
something we used to call being a pig and eating too damn much then
getting indigestion all the time. but this new acid reflux disease
sure sells a lot of purple pills.

simple fact is, batteries have been charging a long time without these
battery chargers. period. and the batteries don't go bad unless you
don't maintain them, that is, you let the electrolyte level get down on
the plates and/or leave it there for a long time, discharged. then you
get sulfate on the plates and it won't take a charge. but even that's
not the end of the world since you can hook it up to a high current
source and gas a lot of the sulfate off of the plates and "recondition"
the batteries just by making it froth up vigorously.

the article is insincere, it even has terms like "over-charging". what
is that ? i mean really! your battery is made of plates of metal
inside of an acid solution inside of a box. what exactly is getting
over-charged ? what's going to happen ? the plates are going to
suddenly stop being made out of lead ? the acid is going to suddenly
stop being acidic ? the box is going to stop being a box ? i mean
what is this "over-charging" anyway ? the worst thing that's going to
happen is that you're going to create some hydrogen gas and have to put
water in more often ... the hydrogen isn't a problem because a good
install already has good ventilation. and as far as the vigorous broth
you're making in the batteries by "over-charging" (at the extreme) ...
that's a GOOD THING! why would you want to stop that ? if you've got
power to waste, OVER-CHARGE and get rid of some of the sulfate on the
plates already. and then in the article they turn right around ..
right after talking about over-charging, and then say it's a good thing
by giving it the name "equalization"!!!! i mean come on!!!! it's the
same damn thing!!! lol. i mean what kind of snake oil is this when you
say over-charging is a bad thing because it gasses off your electrolyte
and then turn right around and say "equalization" is a good thing!!!
it's the same thing!!!! lol.

Yes, people, including me, have been charging batteries for years
without a three stage regulator. A three stage regulator just makes the
charging take less time. As for over charging, keeping the charge
voltage at a high voltage, i.e. 14.4 causes the electrolite to boil off
and require water replacement more frequently.
krj