AIS.Wonderful idea! Perhaps all the responders of this thread should think a
little more about where this is really going. AIS is being seriously abused
by Internet broadcast and other unintended recording of AIS traffic, as well
as environmentalists and governments (the real pirates). The net result is
everyone will have one because of regulations and no one will turn them on
because of the loss of security, risk of fines, unecessary taxation or other
abuses soon to appear. Damn shame.
Steve

"Pascal" wrote in message
oups.com...

This is posted on the IMO page: what are the concerns ans implications?
I have seen many people broadcasting the ships positions on the webb.

Maritime security - AIS ship data

At its79th session in December 2004, the Maritime Safety Committee
(MSC) agreed that, in relation to the issue of freely available
automatic information system (AIS)-generated ship data on the
world-wide web, the publication on the world-wide web or elsewhere of
AIS data transmitted by ships could be detrimental to the safety and
security of ships and port facilities and was undermining the efforts
of the Organization and its Member States to enhance the safety of
navigation and security in the international maritime transport sector.


The Committee condemned the regrettable publication on the world-wide
web, or elsewhere, of AIS data transmitted by ships and urged Member
Governments, subject to the provisions of their national laws, to
discourage those who make available AIS data to others for publication
on the world-wide web, or elsewhere from doing so.

In addition, the Committee condemned those who irresponsibly publish
AIS data transmitted by ships on the world-wide web, or elsewhere,
particularly if they offer services to the shipping and port
industries.

On 2006-03-26 02:14:00 +1100, "Steve Lusardi" said:

AIS.Wonderful idea! Perhaps all the responders of this thread should
think a little more about where this is really going. AIS is being
seriously abused by Internet broadcast and other unintended recording
of AIS traffic, as well as environmentalists and governments (the real
pirates). The net result is everyone will have one because of
regulations and no one will turn them on because of the loss of
security, risk of fines, unecessary taxation or other abuses soon to
appear. Damn shame.
Steve

"Pascal" wrote in message
oups.com...

This is posted on the IMO page: what are the concerns ans implications?
I have seen many people broadcasting the ships positions on the webb.

Maritime security - AIS ship data

At its79th session in December 2004, the Maritime Safety Committee
(MSC) agreed that, in relation to the issue of freely available
automatic information system (AIS)-generated ship data on the
world-wide web, the publication on the world-wide web or elsewhere of
AIS data transmitted by ships could be detrimental to the safety and
security of ships and port facilities and was undermining the efforts
of the Organization and its Member States to enhance the safety of
navigation and security in the international maritime transport sector.


The Committee condemned the regrettable publication on the world-wide
web, or elsewhere, of AIS data transmitted by ships and urged Member
Governments, subject to the provisions of their national laws, to
discourage those who make available AIS data to others for publication
on the world-wide web, or elsewhere from doing so.

In addition, the Committee condemned those who irresponsibly publish
AIS data transmitted by ships on the world-wide web, or elsewhere,
particularly if they offer services to the shipping and port
industries.

AIS is really only just the beginning. What is to prevent bouyage from
being AIS literate come to think of it we don't need a physical bouy
anymore just an AIS signal with the GPS coordinates of where the bouy
should be. Also could be used for isolated danger marks etc. As these
things don't move the beaconing time would be fairly long. Thus AIS
could start to form the basis of a virtual navaids system. Add a chart
background and voila you have an instanly updated marine chart
(ignoring depth conours etc).

I agree with Dennis. Don't blame AIS because there are a few people out
there who use the data for their own purposes (terrorists/criminals).
Just have the political will to solve that problem.

--
Regards,
John D Proctor

"John Proctor" wrote in message
news:2006032608152075249-lost@nowhereorg...
On 2006-03-26 02:14:00 +1100, "Steve Lusardi"
said:

AIS.Wonderful idea! Perhaps all the responders of this thread should
think a little more about where this is really going. AIS is being
seriously abused by Internet broadcast and other unintended recording of
AIS traffic, as well as environmentalists and governments (the real
pirates). The net result is everyone will have one because of regulations
and no one will turn them on because of the loss of security, risk of
fines, unecessary taxation or other abuses soon to appear. Damn shame.
Steve

"Pascal" wrote in message
oups.com...

This is posted on the IMO page: what are the concerns ans implications?
I have seen many people broadcasting the ships positions on the webb.

Maritime security - AIS ship data

At its79th session in December 2004, the Maritime Safety Committee
(MSC) agreed that, in relation to the issue of freely available
automatic information system (AIS)-generated ship data on the
world-wide web, the publication on the world-wide web or elsewhere of
AIS data transmitted by ships could be detrimental to the safety and
security of ships and port facilities and was undermining the efforts
of the Organization and its Member States to enhance the safety of
navigation and security in the international maritime transport sector.


The Committee condemned the regrettable publication on the world-wide
web, or elsewhere, of AIS data transmitted by ships and urged Member
Governments, subject to the provisions of their national laws, to
discourage those who make available AIS data to others for publication
on the world-wide web, or elsewhere from doing so.

In addition, the Committee condemned those who irresponsibly publish
AIS data transmitted by ships on the world-wide web, or elsewhere,
particularly if they offer services to the shipping and port
industries.

AIS is really only just the beginning. What is to prevent bouyage from
being AIS literate come to think of it we don't need a physical bouy
anymore just an AIS signal with the GPS coordinates of where the bouy
should be.

Now that we have GPS, why are buoys needed anymore? Aren't you really
interested in where the channel is located and not the location of some buoy
that also happens to be trying to show you where the channel is located?
When did buoys become a destinatiion in and of themselves instead of merely
a source of nautical information guiding us around underwater obstructions?

Also could be used for isolated danger marks etc. As these things don't
move the beaconing time would be fairly long. Thus AIS could start to form
the basis of a virtual navaids system. Add a chart background and voila
you have an instanly updated marine chart

This is a great idea and the virtual danger mark would only need be
maintained with AIS until the charts get updated and then each ship will
know where the danger is located just from their GPS map data.

On 2006-03-27 01:46:39 +1100, "Ted" said:


"John Proctor" wrote in message
news:2006032608152075249-lost@nowhereorg...
On 2006-03-26 02:14:00 +1100, "Steve Lusardi" said:

AIS.Wonderful idea! Perhaps all the responders of this thread should
think a little more about where this is really going. AIS is being
seriously abused by Internet broadcast and other unintended recording
of AIS traffic, as well as environmentalists and governments (the real
pirates). The net result is everyone will have one because of
regulations and no one will turn them on because of the loss of
security, risk of fines, unecessary taxation or other abuses soon to
appear. Damn shame.
Steve

"Pascal" wrote in message
oups.com...

This is posted on the IMO page: what are the concerns ans implications?
I have seen many people broadcasting the ships positions on the webb.

Maritime security - AIS ship data

At its79th session in December 2004, the Maritime Safety Committee
(MSC) agreed that, in relation to the issue of freely available
automatic information system (AIS)-generated ship data on the
world-wide web, the publication on the world-wide web or elsewhere of
AIS data transmitted by ships could be detrimental to the safety and
security of ships and port facilities and was undermining the efforts
of the Organization and its Member States to enhance the safety of
navigation and security in the international maritime transport sector.


The Committee condemned the regrettable publication on the world-wide
web, or elsewhere, of AIS data transmitted by ships and urged Member
Governments, subject to the provisions of their national laws, to
discourage those who make available AIS data to others for publication
on the world-wide web, or elsewhere from doing so.

In addition, the Committee condemned those who irresponsibly publish
AIS data transmitted by ships on the world-wide web, or elsewhere,
particularly if they offer services to the shipping and port
industries.

AIS is really only just the beginning. What is to prevent bouyage from
being AIS literate come to think of it we don't need a physical bouy
anymore just an AIS signal with the GPS coordinates of where the bouy
should be.

Now that we have GPS, why are buoys needed anymore? Aren't you really
interested in where the channel is located and not the location of some
buoy that also happens to be trying to show you where the channel is
located? When did buoys become a destinatiion in and of themselves
instead of merely a source of nautical information guiding us around
underwater obstructions?

Also could be used for isolated danger marks etc. As these things don't
move the beaconing time would be fairly long. Thus AIS could start to
form the basis of a virtual navaids system. Add a chart background and
voila you have an instanly updated marine chart

This is a great idea and the virtual danger mark would only need be
maintained with AIS until the charts get updated and then each ship
will know where the danger is located just from their GPS map data.

You missed the point I was trying to develop. All the man made features
of a paper chart can be disseminated via AIS. AIS or its future
development will be the basis of a virtual marine charting system. No
need to maintain physicallity of bouys, danger marks etc. (A brave new
world eh?). Think of how much money could be saved?

After all, I'm not a pilot (aircraft type) but is this not the way
aircraft navigation works? Just thinking out loud.

--
Regards,
John D Proctor

John Proctor wrote:

You missed the point I was trying to develop. All the man made features
of a paper chart can be disseminated via AIS. AIS or its future
development will be the basis of a virtual marine charting system. No
need to maintain physicallity of bouys, danger marks etc. (A brave new
world eh?). Think of how much money could be saved?

After all, I'm not a pilot (aircraft type) but is this not the way
aircraft navigation works? Just thinking out loud.

Actually, you wouldn't even need a boat. You could go everywhere on
your laptop and save a bundle!


Michael Porter Naval Architect / Boatbuilder
mporter at mp-marine dot com
www.mp-marine.com
*** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***
*** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com ***

"John Proctor" wrote in message
news:2006032707325016807-lost@nowhereorg...
On 2006-03-27 01:46:39 +1100, "Ted" said:


"John Proctor" wrote in message
news:2006032608152075249-lost@nowhereorg...
On 2006-03-26 02:14:00 +1100, "Steve Lusardi"
said:

AIS.Wonderful idea! Perhaps all the responders of this thread should
think a little more about where this is really going. AIS is being
seriously abused by Internet broadcast and other unintended recording
of AIS traffic, as well as environmentalists and governments (the real
pirates). The net result is everyone will have one because of
regulations and no one will turn them on because of the loss of
security, risk of fines, unecessary taxation or other abuses soon to
appear. Damn shame.
Steve

"Pascal" wrote in message
oups.com...

This is posted on the IMO page: what are the concerns ans
implications?
I have seen many people broadcasting the ships positions on the webb.

Maritime security - AIS ship data

At its79th session in December 2004, the Maritime Safety Committee
(MSC) agreed that, in relation to the issue of freely available
automatic information system (AIS)-generated ship data on the
world-wide web, the publication on the world-wide web or elsewhere of
AIS data transmitted by ships could be detrimental to the safety and
security of ships and port facilities and was undermining the efforts
of the Organization and its Member States to enhance the safety of
navigation and security in the international maritime transport
sector.


The Committee condemned the regrettable publication on the world-wide
web, or elsewhere, of AIS data transmitted by ships and urged Member
Governments, subject to the provisions of their national laws, to
discourage those who make available AIS data to others for publication
on the world-wide web, or elsewhere from doing so.

In addition, the Committee condemned those who irresponsibly publish
AIS data transmitted by ships on the world-wide web, or elsewhere,
particularly if they offer services to the shipping and port
industries.

AIS is really only just the beginning. What is to prevent bouyage from
being AIS literate come to think of it we don't need a physical bouy
anymore just an AIS signal with the GPS coordinates of where the bouy
should be.

Now that we have GPS, why are buoys needed anymore? Aren't you really
interested in where the channel is located and not the location of some
buoy that also happens to be trying to show you where the channel is
located? When did buoys become a destinatiion in and of themselves
instead of merely a source of nautical information guiding us around
underwater obstructions?

Also could be used for isolated danger marks etc. As these things don't
move the beaconing time would be fairly long. Thus AIS could start to
form the basis of a virtual navaids system. Add a chart background and
voila you have an instanly updated marine chart

This is a great idea and the virtual danger mark would only need be
maintained with AIS until the charts get updated and then each ship will
know where the danger is located just from their GPS map data.


You missed the point I was trying to develop.

And you seem to be having difficulty comprehending the fact that buoys are
completely irrelevant in a GPS navigation environment.

Another problem you don't seem to understand is that AIS uses a radio
frequency with limited bandwidth. Only a certain number of time domain slots
will fit in that bandwidth thus you can't fill it up with fixed points such
as obstructions and buoys and hazards. That is what a chart is for. AIS is
for moving objects or recently discovered objects that have not yet been
placed on the chart. When GPS charting and AIS technology becomes mature the
mariner won't even have to update his charts. It will happen automatically
whenever he pilots his craft within range of a wireless coastguard internet
hot spot where his GPS navigation device automatically collects the updates.

All the man made features of a paper chart can be disseminated via AIS.
AIS or its future development will be the basis of a virtual marine
charting system. No need to maintain physicallity of bouys, danger marks
etc.

There is no need to even have a virtual buoy. You want to know where the
edge of the channel is located not the location of some buoy that may or may
not be in the correct location. When the GPS chart becomes the universal
standard then all the buoys can be removed from the water and the charts
they are simply no longer required.

(A brave new world eh?). Think of how much money could be saved?

Electronic charts will save as much money.



After all, I'm not a pilot (aircraft type) but is this not the way
aircraft navigation works? Just thinking out loud.

Actually there are a lot of pilots who are using GPS to fly from one VOR
ground station to the next when it is completely unnecessary. They should
just fly direct to the destination they want while avoiding any prohibited
or hazardous airspace.



--
Regards,
John D Proctor

When GPS charting and AIS technology becomes mature the
mariner won't even have to update his charts. It will happen automatically
whenever he pilots his craft within range of a wireless coastguard
internet
hot spot where his GPS navigation device automatically collects the
updates.

And let's hope they actually start discusssing the security risks associated
with this idea.

When the GPS chart becomes the universal
standard then all the buoys can be removed from the water and the charts
they are simply no longer required.

I sure hope not. Electronic devices fail and radio frequencies can be
jammed or interferred with. I'll take a good ol' paper chart and an actual
physical marker, thank you. While I agree that electronic charting is
*definitely* worth using it's not without issues.

(A brave new world eh?). Think of how much money could be saved?
Electronic charts will save as much money.

I doubt it. And when it comes to safety I'm not sure I'd even bother
arguing for 'saving'. Penny-wise, pound-foolish, more or less.

"Bill Kearney" wrote in message
t...

When GPS charting and AIS technology becomes mature the
mariner won't even have to update his charts. It will happen
automatically
whenever he pilots his craft within range of a wireless coastguard
internet
hot spot where his GPS navigation device automatically collects the
updates.

And let's hope they actually start discusssing the security risks
associated
with this idea.

What security risks would that be?



When the GPS chart becomes the universal
standard then all the buoys can be removed from the water and the charts
they are simply no longer required.

I sure hope not. Electronic devices fail and radio frequencies can be
jammed or interferred with.

Paper maps can be misprinted. They can get destroyed accidentally, and buoys
can be moved by storms and collisions. A compass can be damaged and also
interfered with by magnetic sources on the ship or in the waters. They too
are not 100% reliable. Your fears come from your lack of understanding of
the basic principles of navigation.

I'll take a good ol' paper chart and an actual
physical marker, thank you.

Its clear that you are one of the old geezers who thinks its a sin to use
anything but compass and paper map. You think this way because thats all you
know.

While I agree that electronic charting is
*definitely* worth using it's not without issues.

Again, what issues would that be? Its interesting how vague your language
gets when telling the world how much you hate electronic navigation. You
don't want to admit that the only problem is that you fear it because you
don't understand it.



(A brave new world eh?). Think of how much money could be saved?
Electronic charts will save as much money.

I doubt it.

I doubt that you know what you are talking about.

And when it comes to safety I'm not sure I'd even bother
arguing for 'saving'. Penny-wise, pound-foolish, more or less.

You seem to be a rather slow individual. The idea that GPS navigation does
not require buoys in any way in the water or on a chart has completely
soared over your head. Your mind clearly has not come to grips with that
basic fact. Instead you spend this post arguing that buoys should stay for
redundancy. This is a perfectly good reason to keep buoys in the water but
has absolutely nothing to do with the point I was making. Considering your
inability to think and process written material in this thread, I'm glad I
won't be riding on any of your boats. It doesn't sound safe.

And let's hope they actually start discusssing the security risks
associated with this idea.

What security risks would that be?

Invalid data being improperly uploaded from an authorized source.

I sure hope not. Electronic devices fail and radio frequencies can be
jammed or interferred with.

Paper maps can be misprinted. They can get destroyed accidentally, and
buoys
can be moved by storms and collisions. A compass can be damaged and also
interfered with by magnetic sources on the ship or in the waters. They too
are not 100% reliable.

And a chartplotter's electronics can die at hundreds of different points of
failure. Even something as simple a blown backlight on the LCD can render
it useless. To say nothing of corrosion on any number of connectors. Or
just plain power failure. If the power goes out I can simply walk out in
the SUNLIGHT, read the paper chart and eye up the navigation markers.

The point is that none of them work well enough to be consider 'exclusive'
of the others.

Your fears come from your lack of understanding of
the basic principles of navigation.

And your naivete regarding possible interference with GPS is likewise
lacking in understanding.

Its clear that you are one of the old geezers who thinks its a sin to use
anything but compass and paper map. You think this way because thats all
you
know.

You're a fool if you think you know my level of experience. You're fishing
to insult the intelligence of the group but all you're doing is painting
yourself the idiot.

While I agree that electronic charting is
*definitely* worth using it's not without issues.

Again, what issues would that be? Its interesting how vague your language
gets when telling the world how much you hate electronic navigation. You
don't want to admit that the only problem is that you fear it because you
don't understand it.

Again, see earlier fool comment. I understand electronic navigation quite
well, thank you and I like using it whenever possible. But it's ridiculous
to think it's and end-all, beat-all solution for navigation.

And when it comes to safety I'm not sure I'd even bother
arguing for 'saving'. Penny-wise, pound-foolish, more or less.

You seem to be a rather slow individual.

And you're an arrogant ass, but I'm sure you've heard that before.

The idea that GPS navigation does
not require buoys in any way in the water or on a chart has completely
soared over your head. Your mind clearly has not come to grips with that
basic fact. Instead you spend this post arguing that buoys should stay for
redundancy. This is a perfectly good reason to keep buoys in the water but
has absolutely nothing to do with the point I was making. Considering your
inability to think and process written material in this thread, I'm glad I
won't be riding on any of your boats. It doesn't sound safe.

Wow, how stunningly immature. Instead of carrying out a rational
conversation all you can do it stoop to insulting anyone that contradicts
you? Wake us up when you grow up and learn how to converse.

"Bill Kearney" wrote in
t:

If the power goes out I can simply walk out in
the SUNLIGHT, read the paper chart and eye up the navigation markers.



If the power "goes out", the chartplotter will be the least of our
worries....(c;