I've got a Furuno 1623 and the beamwidth is noticeable compared to the
high quality navigation radars I have been used in large ships.
Howeevr, it has proved to be pretty good - picking up small contacts
close in and dealing with clutter effectively.

First, I'd say that the Cat's skipper probably said that he saw it as
junk because he was used to something better. I've seen the world
through a USN 3D radar and now I think that all other radars are junk,
this is'nt really true but it is the way that I see it. My boat
doesn't have a radar, it did but the previous owner tore it out, and if
I get one it will be El Cheapo Dexulo whose sole purpose is as a
collision avoidance alarm. Which brings me to;

Second, for what purpose do you want it, collision avoidance or a
navigational aid?
If it's just an alarm, go cheap, mount low, but get the tiltable mount
and as another fellow mentioned, specify to your salesman short range!
If it is for a nav aid, spend as much as you can, mount as high as you
can. Otherwise, you will be calling your own radar a piece of junk,
after you've seen someone else's fancier radar [did you know that with
a REALLY good radar, you can actually see {oops, sorry, gotta censor
that, it's classified...}]



Thirdly, you could do what I do. Heave to, throw up two red lights,
set the auto fog horn to once a minute and go to bed.

Lastly, to make a truly informed decision that you won't regret, you
must See the various brands and models of radars, in the various
configurations and talk to the operators about what they do and Don't
like about it. And that's gonna take quite some time! When you run
into someone who says 'this is the best darned radar I ever had!' and
you ask him why And you understand his reasoning, then buy that radar
and mount it in that configuration.
You've gotten several good bits of advise here, but notice that no one
has confirmed or denied whether the 1623 is better or worse than the
1715. Of course they couldn't because you didn't state the purpose.

Well, good luck. And remember that I can fix a radar but I can't sell
them.
O, and ask that Cat Skipper [and everyone else] what radar Did he like,
and Why.

tom
SS_Kanwara
=-==





luc wrote:
I read in Practical Sailor about radar, and their reccomendations were
the Furuno 1715 (? I think), and not rated as good was the 1623. I
have a race boat, and want a radar, but as small and light as possible.
While sailing aboard Derek Baylis, a Wylie Cat 65 this past weekend, I
asked the captain what he thought of the 1623, since that is what was
on board. He answered that it was the worst piece of junk for a radar
he's ever seen, and he has much experience. Here I was ready to buy
one, but now not so sure about the 1623.

A few questions. Is there another small radar that is good? Is the
quality of the radar directly related to the size of the radome? What
are the pros and cons of locating a radar on short mast aft, as many
cruisers have, or on the main mast of a sloop?

thanks for any help,

Luc

Tlindy,

I strongly disagree, you are overestimating the lowest end of the radar
offerings. You cannot just set a guard zone and have it detect a
collision. There is no ARPA feature, and the MARPA feature requires a
lot of opearator assistance, as well as an extra $900 heading sensor to
help it better track targets.

At the lowest end they are much more difficult to be used for collision
avoidance with boats or land, paying more money quickly lessens the
amount of time and expertise needed to operating them, but even then, a
higher-end recreational radar probably requires more understanding to
operate then any other device on a sailboat, and a significant
concentration to operate. For example, on the lowest end radar most
other sailboats don't appear on the screen unless you play with the
gain with then requires even more concentration and experience, and
features like overlaying a chart with bouys and depths can further ease
the work load on a radar operator who is also piloting.

I don't believe the average person should get anything less than an
integrated chartplotter with maps a good 4kw radar, a lot of reading,
at least 4 hours of on the water training, and resolve to use the radar
in good conditions twice a month to keep up skills. Otherwise, all you
might be buying is a radar assisted collision.

Dan

p.s. I use a Raymarine E-80 chartplotter and 2kw radome, and have it
mounted the minimum distance up the mast I could arrange so that I have
good close in coverage, and placed it on a self leveling mount so I
don't have blind spots when the boat heals. I think the beamwidth is
good, but wish I got the extra power so I can see other sailboats,
especially the ones that are pointed right at me and have a very low
return. Pushing up the gain a bit I can see them, but then I get false
returns also. I also added a heading sensor to improve the MARPA
performance, which also improved my autopilot performance.






tlindly wrote:
First, I'd say that the Cat's skipper probably said that he saw it as
junk because he was used to something better. I've seen the world
through a USN 3D radar and now I think that all other radars are junk,
this is'nt really true but it is the way that I see it. My boat
doesn't have a radar, it did but the previous owner tore it out, and if
I get one it will be El Cheapo Dexulo whose sole purpose is as a
collision avoidance alarm. Which brings me to;

Second, for what purpose do you want it, collision avoidance or a
navigational aid?
If it's just an alarm, go cheap, mount low, but get the tiltable mount
and as another fellow mentioned, specify to your salesman short range!
If it is for a nav aid, spend as much as you can, mount as high as you
can. Otherwise, you will be calling your own radar a piece of junk,
after you've seen someone else's fancier radar [did you know that with
a REALLY good radar, you can actually see {oops, sorry, gotta censor
that, it's classified...}]



Thirdly, you could do what I do. Heave to, throw up two red lights,
set the auto fog horn to once a minute and go to bed.

Lastly, to make a truly informed decision that you won't regret, you
must See the various brands and models of radars, in the various
configurations and talk to the operators about what they do and Don't
like about it. And that's gonna take quite some time! When you run
into someone who says 'this is the best darned radar I ever had!' and
you ask him why And you understand his reasoning, then buy that radar
and mount it in that configuration.
You've gotten several good bits of advise here, but notice that no one
has confirmed or denied whether the 1623 is better or worse than the
1715. Of course they couldn't because you didn't state the purpose.

Well, good luck. And remember that I can fix a radar but I can't sell
them.
O, and ask that Cat Skipper [and everyone else] what radar Did he like,
and Why.

tom
SS_Kanwara
=-==





luc wrote:
I read in Practical Sailor about radar, and their reccomendations were
the Furuno 1715 (? I think), and not rated as good was the 1623. I
have a race boat, and want a radar, but as small and light as possible.
While sailing aboard Derek Baylis, a Wylie Cat 65 this past weekend, I
asked the captain what he thought of the 1623, since that is what was
on board. He answered that it was the worst piece of junk for a radar
he's ever seen, and he has much experience. Here I was ready to buy
one, but now not so sure about the 1623.

A few questions. Is there another small radar that is good? Is the
quality of the radar directly related to the size of the radome? What
are the pros and cons of locating a radar on short mast aft, as many
cruisers have, or on the main mast of a sloop?

thanks for any help,

Luc

"b393capt" wrote in
ups.com:

I use a Raymarine E-80 chartplotter and 2kw radome

Look inside your 2KW radome and see if it's all wet in there corroding up
the pot metal it's made of. We'll look at ours in spring to see if it
needs its 4th replacement....(sigh).

It doesn't really "leak", as in rainwater pouring in. It breathes. It
breathes in wet air after dusk which condenses all night on the pot metal
parts, then burns off into 100% humidity swamp all day, expelling some hot
air so it will be able to breathe in the next load of wet air, tonight.
The pot metal turns into a white powder conductive salt that rains down on
the circuit boards that SHOULD have been in a sealed container, but that
would have required we use sealed plugs, not pins sticking off the printed
circuit board for a connector. So they left it open. Not only is it all
corroded up on the outside....but inside, too, where the data and receiver
boards are located.

Notice how the magnetron's soft iron core is all rusted....

Larry
--
Halloween candy left over.....
Is there a downside?

4 units. Wow. What's the average life ?

Larry wrote:
"b393capt" wrote in
ups.com:

I use a Raymarine E-80 chartplotter and 2kw radome

Look inside your 2KW radome and see if it's all wet in there corroding up
the pot metal it's made of. We'll look at ours in spring to see if it
needs its 4th replacement....(sigh).

It doesn't really "leak", as in rainwater pouring in. It breathes. It
breathes in wet air after dusk which condenses all night on the pot metal
parts, then burns off into 100% humidity swamp all day, expelling some hot
air so it will be able to breathe in the next load of wet air, tonight.
The pot metal turns into a white powder conductive salt that rains down on
the circuit boards that SHOULD have been in a sealed container, but that
would have required we use sealed plugs, not pins sticking off the printed
circuit board for a connector. So they left it open. Not only is it all
corroded up on the outside....but inside, too, where the data and receiver
boards are located.

Notice how the magnetron's soft iron core is all rusted....

Larry
--
Halloween candy left over.....
Is there a downside?

"b393capt" wrote in
oups.com:

4 units. Wow. What's the average life ?



A year or two. So far, Raymarine has been replacing them, as they did the
Raystar 120. Can't complain about the tech support...but wouldn't it be
better to fix the design? I notice the new radars on the dock are now in a
different case, but still have the drain tit sticking out the bottom,
instead of a pressurizing, SEALED radome. I don't understand it...??

Sitting in the muck at the bottom of the mizzenmast the 2KW radome is
mounted on is an Icom AT-140 HF antenna tuner for the insulated backstay on
the main. Its plastic box is SEALED with many screws and a rubber grommet.
It has been awash in water since we got it, seawater spray offshore. The
inside of it is as shiny new as it came to us. Why can't radar
manufacturers use a SEALED radome with proper SEALED stuffing tubes that
doesn't breathe in the muck and rot the guts? How silly....like the stupid
push-to-open wire clamps the control cable on the radome has inside it,
also in the muck....(sigh)

I'm not asking for proper dry nitrogen pressurization....just something
that SEALS and doesn't BREATHE! Changing radomes sucks!

Larry
--
Halloween candy left over.....
Is there a downside?

Charlie Morgan wrote in
news
No corrosion problems at all with my Furuno. You'll notice that the
vast majority of commercial fishing boats have Furuno RADAR. Corrosion
problems with other brands may be the reason!



How is that one sealed up? Is there any drain in it? I couldn't believe
there was a hole in the bottom of the Raymarine when I looked at it.

Larry
--
Halloween candy left over.....
Is there a downside?

Charlie Morgan wrote in
:

Seems to be very well sealed. The dome and base have a tight fitting
rubber gasket that wraps around the edges of both pieces. The cable
goes through a rubber "compression" seal as well. No need for a drain.
I haven't tried it, but it might even surivive submersion, at least
for a while.


Yo! Raymarine! You readin' dis, bo?!

Thanks. Just wanted to see if they were watchin'.

Larry
--
Halloween candy left over.....
Is there a downside?

Luc,

You out there ? Did this help ??

Thanks for the information, I've learned something here. My principal
concern is collision avoidance, but it occurred to me that it could
also be used tactically while racing.

I know most of you are likely cruisers, and I am too, which is why I
need to use a radar for collision avoidance. Last summer, I had to
sail my boat from San Diego to Moss Landing, and we did most of it at
night, and in fog, without radar. Nuts? yeah, seemed like it at the
time.

A couple of weeks ago, I took a friend's boat to San Diego from Moss
Landing, and it had a new Raymarine radar and chartplotter. It worked
great, though my experience with radar is limited, by the time we got
to SD, I had a pretty good idea of the menus, and how the thing worked.


Racing is pretty nutty at times, and weight and weight aloft is taken
quite seriously. But not at the expense of safety. Many race boats
have no radar, but someday, I will.

thanks again folks!