On Sat, 27 Jan 2007 22:40:34 -0500, "Bill Kearney"
wkearney-99@hot-mail-com wrote:

If this is true, the short answer is: You got the wrong box.

No, if he's got a WRT54GS he can load the dd-wrt firmware on it and use it
as a client just fine. I know, that's exactly what I've got in my boat.

Yes, noticed he had the GS version (though I understand there is now
workarounds for almost all version of the WRT54G, even the latest
one). But I think for most people purchasing a device already
configures for use as a Wireless Client is more straight forward then
reflashing. In any case, he will need to get two boxes, right? But
you are right, he could purchase either another WRT54GS and re-flash
the open firmware, or just purchase a Wireless Client.


I have used this setup a few times on Viking Star, but once it is all
set up and attached to a remote WiFi, I have not found a way to get
back into the Wireless Client (I am using a DWL2100AP) without
disconnecting the Ethernet cable from the WRT54GS and plugging it back
into the Laptop.

I do it all the time without disconnecting anything. The on-boat network is
always on the same wifi SSID; conveniently called "boat" on our vessel. So
the laptops aboard always stay connected to the same network. I just surf
to the shore-link device, also always on a fixed IP address as part of the
"boat" network, and use that to pick an on-shore SSID. Works well.


Do you give your shore-link / wireless client device an fixed IP
address within your 'boats' IP range? That is what I am doing and
works great. Can talk to the DWL2100AP no problem. Search for a
network and select it as appropriate. But what I have found is that
once I connect to a shore based station, unless that station happens
to use the same IP range as the IP address assigned to my shore-link
device I can no longer access it. If the shore based IP range is
within the fixed IP address of my shore-link box, then I can continue
to reach it no problem.... Are you able to continue to communicate
with your shore-link no matter what the shore base station uses for
its IP ranges?


This is an area where my knowledge runs out :-)

-al-

Al Thomason wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jan 2007 22:40:34 -0500, "Bill Kearney"
wkearney-99@hot-mail-com wrote:

If this is true, the short answer is: You got the wrong box.
No, if he's got a WRT54GS he can load the dd-wrt firmware on it and use it
as a client just fine. I know, that's exactly what I've got in my boat.

Yes, noticed he had the GS version (though I understand there is now
workarounds for almost all version of the WRT54G, even the latest
one). But I think for most people purchasing a device already
configures for use as a Wireless Client is more straight forward then
reflashing. In any case, he will need to get two boxes, right? But
you are right, he could purchase either another WRT54GS and re-flash
the open firmware, or just purchase a Wireless Client.

I think you need to have the version 4.x or earlier WRT-54 models to re
flash the firmware and one of the third party firmwares. The newest
version 5.0 and up models have less RAM and flash memory and can't
support the linux based re flashes. More details he

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WRT54G

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA (jackerbes at adelphia dot net)
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine dot com)

In any case, he will need to get two boxes, right?

Yes, two boxes. One to make the link to the shore and the other to provide
an on-boat wireless network. You could get away with just one making the
shore connection. But then you'd have to use a wired connection to any
other computers onboard. Which you could do, as I've done, by running a
single ethernet wire down from the shore-link router to a wired switch.
Then connect your computer(s) there. I found it was better to have wireless
to avoid the tripping hazards cables pose.

Do you give your shore-link / wireless client device an fixed IP
address within your 'boats' IP range?

Yes. On the boat I use a 172.16.x.x/255.255.0.0 range of addresses. This
helps avoid conflicts with anything on shore using a
192.168.x.x/255.255.255.0 range. The access point on the boat uses
172.16.x.2 and the shore-link router in the radar arch uses 172.16.x.1. So
I just keep a web browser bookmark setup for http://172.16.x.1 and use that
to configure the router when we get anchored. It's worked really well.

And when I mention 172.16.x.x the 'x' is a number from 1 to 255. I simply x
out the ones I use for the sake of, well, privacy. That and should someone
else happen to get networked along with me somewhere on the Chesapeake it
cuts down on the likely conflict. You could just as well use 172.16.1.x,
172.16.88.x or anything else up to 255.

172.16.x.x using a Class B subnet of 255.255.0.0 is one of the private
network numbers that can be used for devices that are not directly connected
to the Internet. The 192.168.x.x Class C 255.255.255.0 is another one.
(note the difference in subnet masks) You can use either. Most folks don't
know about private addressing so get stuck with just the 192.168.x.x
numbering. But know this, you SHOULD NOT just make up numbering. Always
use the legitimate private network numbers. Otherwise you'd be screwed
if/when you actually need to route to something on the same addressing as
something you've 'made up'.

Are you able to continue to communicate
with your shore-link no matter what the shore base station uses for
its IP ranges?

Yes, routing is such that a local network is going to get priority anyway.
But since I use the 172.16.x.x range of private addresses the chances of
conflict are really quite low. Even if the shore network was on the same
range it's my on-boat network that's handling the packets first. I have the
shore-link router acting as a client but also running DHCP services. The
on-boat router runs nothing, it's just an access point. The ethernet wire
goes between the LAN side of each router. The WAN ports on both of them are
unused. I actually run my gear all into one ethernet switch. That's also
where my Raymarine E-80 is networked along with the SR1000 Sirius marine
weather unit. It's all worked quite nicely this past summer.

-Bill Kearney

I think you need to have the version 4.x or earlier WRT-54 models to re
flash the firmware and one of the third party firmwares. The newest
version 5.0 and up models have less RAM and flash memory and can't
support the linux based re flashes.

Generally, yes, it's better to have the 4.0 and earlier hardware versions.
Or get one of the new ones specifically noted as WRT54GL with L indicating
Linux. You can use a 'micro' version of the firmware on the new version 5
and later boxes. And for a simple shore-link and access point setup that's
actually sufficient.

I scoured fleabay for a couple of weeks and picked up several 4.0 and
earlier units just so I'd have spares.

Then there's also the new units from Buffalo. Check the
http://www.dd-wrt.com website to find out which models are supported.

-Bill Kearney

capt.bill11 wrote in
:

But the antenna came with the correct end fitting to hook to the
Linksys box. But what I'm not sure about is whether by just hooking
the WiFi antenna to one of the two antenna posts on the Linksys box I
should then start picking up local WiFi sites?

Whoa! This is a broadband ROUTER, not a BRIDGE or GATEWAY or REPEATER
(keywords). It's made to be the SOURCE of wifi broadband, connected to a
cable modem or DSL modem via Ethernet....NOT a wifi listening device, a
receiver connectable to other wifi systems.

The two antennas are called "space diversity antennas". They both
transceive the same signals and listen to the same channels. A "voter"
in the box determines which antenna has the best signal from your wifi
laptop/PDA/Skype Phone and uses that antenna. (My Netgear has 7 antennas
built into its internal phased array panel.)

You can't connect a wifi router to a wifi access point, then repeat what
it says to another wifi box like a laptop. The data flow is from the
Ethernet WAN port. It has no way to connect to a wifi hotspot.

I'm using a Linksys "Range Expander" in my car:
http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satel...ldpagename=US%
2FLayout&cid=1130267578138&pagename=Linksys%2FComm on%2FVisitorWrapper
This box IS a wifi repeater station. You put it on the edge of usable
wifi coverage from a wifi hotspot and it REPEATS the hotspot data, bi-
directionally, with wifi devices (laptop and Skype Phone here) that would
normally be out-of-range of that hotspot. At my local Denny's, there's
an unprotected linksys wifi router that has a lousy signal INSIDE the
metal old-fashioned diner style restaurant (Nothing at Denny's is DINER
PRICED, however, another matter.) So, when I carry my laptop or Skype
Phone into Denny's for breakfast, I plug this 110VAC repeater into a 75W
inverter-in-a-cigarette-lighter-plug, into the 12V port on my dash. The
AC line runs out the door seal to the Linksys repeater laying flat on the
roof with its little plastic antenna sticking up (it rotates). Signal
from the weak hotspot INSIDE Denny's goes from 1 bar to 4 bars out of 5
on the little Netgear Skype Phone, and I have solid phone service at
breakfast through it.

Repeating DOES have a drawback! If you add the time it takes to receive
data, store it, then transmit it back out to another wifi device, that
takes TWICE as long as connecting directly....for boxes like mine. Data
comes in half as fast as it did directly, but with a much better signal
that doesn't fade and dropout. For just browsing, Skyping, all but
downloading big files, it matters not but is something to think about.

Now....to get faster service....you need to buy a high powered Access
Point and run Ethernet from the access point up the mast to the computer
in the boat. That means the AP needs to be up the mast, powered by one
cable and Ethernet cable comes down the mast, not RF coax cable. If you
put another router on the other end of that Ethernet cable, you end up
with the problem of the second router inside the boat, which wirelessly
would connect to your laptop, INTERFERING with the receiver up the mast
talking to the hotspot....slowing us down to repeater speed, or worse as
it's not synchronized if the hotspot can't hear your laptop direct to
avoid crashing the signals simultaneously transmitting. RF on the air
ISN'T clairvoyant or magic...it's ANALOG.


Or do I need something that the antenna plugs into first then that
"box" gets plugged into the eithernet in port on the Linksys box?

That box won't work to connect to the hotspot. You need an ACCESS POINT
up the mast that REPLACES the wireless transceiver inside your laptop.
You connect the mast-topped AP to the computer via Ethernet wires.

These access points look like:
http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satel...ldpagename=US%
2FLayout&cid=1133201998719&pagename=Linksys%2FComm on%2FVisitorWrapper
Now, THIS product solves running TWO wires up the mast because it adds
the DC power to run the AP at the remote location (mast top) to the
Ethernet data on the Ethernet cable. At the computer end of the wire,
there is an interface box that you plug AC or DC power into and run the
Ethernet connections through it where it adds DC power without screwing
the data. Notice all access points have WAP in their Linksys model
numbers.



Because right now the WiFi antenna is hooked to the and we are in sight
of a local hot spot but can not get to the internet via the Linksys
box.
But we can if we sit on deck with just the WiFi cards in the laptops.
For what it's worth it's a WRT54GS Linksys box.



This is because the WR (wireless router) has no facility to connect to
another wireless access point. It is not an access point, itself. You
got the wrong box....WAP54GPE or my little wireless repeater box is the
box you need. Sorry....

Larry
--
Democracy is when two wolves and a sheep vote on who's for dinner.
Liberty is when the sheep has his own gun.

Whoa! This is a broadband ROUTER, not a BRIDGE or GATEWAY or REPEATER

No, it CAN be a device like that. If you load some other firmware is can
quite readily be used as a client device. I know, I've done it and it works
quite well. Same thing goes for other devices capable of loading the dd-wrt
firmware. Easy, reliable and cheap.

You can't connect a wifi router to a wifi access point, then repeat what
it says to another wifi box like a laptop.

Again, not correct. You CAN use one as a WDS device. It's basically a
repeater of sorts. And in the process of doing this wastes half the
bandwidth. Listens on the radio, processes the packets, then retransmits on
the same radio. It's not a full duplex operation. Thus while you CAN do
this it's generally a waste of effort because it's slow. Then there's also
the limitation that some networks won't interact with repeaters. Not to
mention the fact that the type of antenna you'd likely use up on the mast
won't give decent coverage down to the deck and cabins below.

The data flow is from the
Ethernet WAN port. It has no way to connect to a wifi hotspot.

It's a ROUTER, it can be configured to sling the packets around in any
direction. Assuming you'd want to, which I'd recommend against.

Why bother using an AC inverter? Many wifi devices work quite well off
12vDC.

Now....to get faster service....you need to buy a high powered Access
Point

Higher power is a myth. Higher power often gets you more signals than you
want, thus degrading the available bandwidth to the actual networks you
need. I can crank my WRT54GS to 250mw but found it works best at about
30mw. What's most important is to get a device that lets you adjust the
power settings and to keep them as low as possible. Both from a noise and a
heat perspective. Cranking a router up to it's full wattage often makes
them unstable. Couple that with being up on the mast in direct sunlight and
you'd have troubles.

If you
put another router on the other end of that Ethernet cable, you end up
with the problem of the second router inside the boat, which wirelessly
would connect to your laptop, INTERFERING with the receiver up the mast
talking to the hotspot....slowing us down to repeater speed, or worse as
it's not synchronized if the hotspot can't hear your laptop direct to
avoid crashing the signals simultaneously transmitting. RF on the air
ISN'T clairvoyant or magic...it's ANALOG.

Bull**** all around. The point is to set your boat's access point to a
different frequency and to use a low power setting with proper antennae. I
found our on-boat network worked best at about 10mw with just the regular
rubber duckie antennae on it. No interference whatsoever. That and it
doesn't interfere with the up-mast router because that antenna's radiation
pattern (donut shaped on the horizontal plane) doesn't extend downward to
the cabin. And since the on-boat access point is set to a low power it
doesn't interfere with the shore networks either. Same thing goes for the
on-boat laptops, they're also configured to use a lower power setting and
thus only see the on-boat SSID.

Now, THIS product solves running TWO wires up the mast because it adds
the DC power to run the AP at the remote location (mast top) to the
Ethernet data on the Ethernet cable.

Power over Ethernet (PoE) is nothing new. Most routers support it or you
can use an adapter to split the cable to support it. Bear in mind the
further you push DC voltage the more drop you'll have due to skinny wire. I
found it was more reliable to just run 16ga for power right to the router.

This is because the WR (wireless router) has no facility to connect to
another wireless access point. It is not an access point, itself. You
got the wrong box....WAP54GPE or my little wireless repeater box is the
box you need. Sorry....

Or you need advice that's accurate. Loading up new firmware opens quite a
few more options for some models of router. Try it, it works quite nicely.

-Bill Kearney

On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 15:32:08 -0500, "Bill Kearney"
wkearney-99@hot-mail-com wrote:
I have the
shore-link router acting as a client but also running DHCP services. The
on-boat router runs nothing, it's just an access point. The ethernet wire
goes between the LAN side of each router. The WAN ports on both of them are
unused. I actually run my gear all into one ethernet switch. That's also
where my Raymarine E-80 is networked along with the SR1000 Sirius marine
weather unit. It's all worked quite nicely this past summer.

-Bill Kearney

Ok, so I have configured a little differently. I use the on-board
WRT54G as an access point as you do, but also use the NAT/DHCP
services in it and I bring in the Wireless Client in through the WAN
port.

I chose to do it this way to be able to preserve the hardware firewall
in the WRT54, separating my on-board network from what ever I attach
to. With more and more open WiFi systems being hosted at a municipal
level (and hence lots of different users on these open WiFi networks),
I want to keep a firewall between me and any outside network I connect
to.

I though about configuring as you have, sure would have solved the
access issues to the Shorelink / Wireless Enternet device I am having,
but I could not see a way to keep a firewall. With your
configuration, is there a firewall in your shorelink / Wireless
client, or somewhere else? Does the open Firmware retain that
capability even when running in Shorelink / Wireless Ethernet mode?

-al-

Ok, so I have configured a little differently. I use the on-board
WRT54G as an access point as you do, but also use the NAT/DHCP
services in it and I bring in the Wireless Client in through the WAN
port.

Yes, if you're actually using a wireless client device then you'd be wise to
think about the firewall issues. Good setup.

I though about configuring as you have, sure would have solved the
access issues to the Shorelink / Wireless Enternet device I am having,
but I could not see a way to keep a firewall. With your
configuration, is there a firewall in your shorelink / Wireless
client, or somewhere else? Does the open Firmware retain that
capability even when running in Shorelink / Wireless Ethernet mode?

When I use my shore-link unit it's acting as a gateway so it's firewall
features are preserved. So the shore sees my client as a single connection.
Then all traffic is routed through that same WRT54GS using it's firewall
features. The on-boat network is just an access point. The dd-wrt firmware
handles all this without much configuring at all.

-Bill Kearney

That setup sounds very clean but what do you do about power? The WRT54GS
comes standard at 63mw and if you boost it over 100mw it will over heat.

The 200mw out of my little EUB-362 in my traveling set up makes a major
difference in usable range.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Yes, that is the answer.

Been away from the dock for a rew days. But in the mean time we did find out that the Linksys box we already had will not work as we wish it to. So a new box is on the way that we have been told can both receive and broadcast WiFi. We'll see. And I'll let you all know.

Thanks to all, Capt. Bill