Larry,
I have jusy puchased a "Blue Seal" brand - "Bussman series High Amp
Circuit Breaker" - 125 Amps; for my anchor winch circuit.

Stated on the packaging under "featuires" is "combines switching and
circuit breaker function into one unit"

Question: Is it good practice to use it as a switch?

cheers
Peter Hendra

Peter Hendra wrote:
Larry,
I have jusy puchased a "Blue Seal" brand - "Bussman series High Amp
Circuit Breaker" - 125 Amps; for my anchor winch circuit.

Stated on the packaging under "featuires" is "combines switching and
circuit breaker function into one unit"

Question: Is it good practice to use it as a switch?

cheers
Peter Hendra

No.

Chuck

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Peter,

You got one answer with no explanation.

A circuit breaker is a switch. - Period (Some used in vehicles are self
-resetting, they are still switches but with no manual control.)

The features note means that it is designed to be used as a manually
controlled disconnect under load. The manufacturer believes this device
can do that safely.

This is largely a moot point in your case. The windless switches are
the devices you use to control the actual motor. You will not be doing
that if your arrangement is at all like any I've ever seen.

The only time you will use this as a switch is if you choose to
disconnect the feed to the actual switching circuit for the windless.

Circuit breakers used to be certified to interrupt the current at rated
load or greater only five times, and came with instructions to replace
them if they had been tripped or manually operated more than twice.

Then along came the category called Switch Duty Breakers (SWB). These
are certified to pass UL, NFPA and NMEA requirements on matter how many
times they are cycled. Most still come with a note to replace if they
are opened by overcurrent - this is because the contact might be damaged.

I am paranoid (I find it serves me well) so I put Switch Duty Breakers
in my shop wiring to control the two banks of lights. Though I had
every intention of putting a pair of 3-way switches by the two doors, I
have been turning the lights on out there at least once a day for
fifteen years. When I tested them last (not something a normal person
can do), both were still within specification. I will put in the above
mentioned switches someday - if I don't kill my self getting to the
breaker box in the dark before that.

Matt Colie
Yachtman's Technical Support
www.yachtek.com



Peter Hendra wrote:
Larry,
I have jusy puchased a "Blue Seal" brand - "Bussman series High Amp
Circuit Breaker" - 125 Amps; for my anchor winch circuit.

Stated on the packaging under "featuires" is "combines switching and
circuit breaker function into one unit"

Question: Is it good practice to use it as a switch?

cheers
Peter Hendra

Matt Colie wrote:
Peter,

You got one answer with no explanation.

A circuit breaker is a switch. - Period (Some used in vehicles are self
-resetting, they are still switches but with no manual control.)

The features note means that it is designed to be used as a manually
controlled disconnect under load. The manufacturer believes this device
can do that safely.

This is largely a moot point in your case. The windless switches are
the devices you use to control the actual motor. You will not be doing
that if your arrangement is at all like any I've ever seen.

The only time you will use this as a switch is if you choose to
disconnect the feed to the actual switching circuit for the windless.

Circuit breakers used to be certified to interrupt the current at rated
load or greater only five times, and came with instructions to replace
them if they had been tripped or manually operated more than twice.

Then along came the category called Switch Duty Breakers (SWB). These
are certified to pass UL, NFPA and NMEA requirements on matter how many
times they are cycled. Most still come with a note to replace if they
are opened by overcurrent - this is because the contact might be damaged.

I am paranoid (I find it serves me well) so I put Switch Duty Breakers
in my shop wiring to control the two banks of lights. Though I had
every intention of putting a pair of 3-way switches by the two doors, I
have been turning the lights on out there at least once a day for
fifteen years. When I tested them last (not something a normal person
can do), both were still within specification. I will put in the above
mentioned switches someday - if I don't kill my self getting to the
breaker box in the dark before that.

Matt Colie
Yachtman's Technical Support
www.yachtek.com



Peter Hendra wrote:
Larry,
I have jusy puchased a "Blue Seal" brand - "Bussman series High Amp
Circuit Breaker" - 125 Amps; for my anchor winch circuit.

Stated on the packaging under "featuires" is "combines switching and
circuit breaker function into one unit"

Question: Is it good practice to use it as a switch?

cheers
Peter Hendra


Why not ask Blue Sea how many switch
operations you can expect their breaker
to perform with your anchor winch load?
Then you'll have an answer you can rely
on. It goes without saying that you'll
be installing the breaker in what is
euphemistically considered a "damp
environment". Be sure to mention that to
Blue Sea, so as to discourage
presentation of results from laboratory
testing in a pristine environment.

As a general rule, combining functions
tends to result in compromises to one or
more of the functions. The links below
examine this issue for breakers as
switches, but not specifically for Blue
Sea products.

You obviously are aware of that and are
questioning Blue Sea's advertising.
You're just asking the wrong people: not
one of us on this group has probably
developed credible statistical data on
Blue Sea breaker failure rates as a
function of number of cycles of
operation. Their web site seems mute on
the subject also. Some breakers have
been designed to perform well as
switches and manufacturers often quote
performance data to support their claims.

http://www.etk.ee.kth.se/personal/li...eSubmitted.pdf

http://history.nasa.gov/alsj/alsj-CBsVsSwitches.html
Using Circuit Breakers as Switches

Good luck!

Chuck

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

I suppose that I should have been more specific. What I intended to
convey was that I already have a heavy duty switch that cuts off the
power to the anchor circuit. I did not mean that I would use it as an
"up" or "down" switch. I was wondering whether I could use the breaker
as an on/off switch to control the power from the batteries

Thanks
Peter

On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 10:21:48 -0400, Chuck
wrote:

Matt Colie wrote:
Peter,

You got one answer with no explanation.

A circuit breaker is a switch. - Period (Some used in vehicles are self
-resetting, they are still switches but with no manual control.)

The features note means that it is designed to be used as a manually
controlled disconnect under load. The manufacturer believes this device
can do that safely.

This is largely a moot point in your case. The windless switches are
the devices you use to control the actual motor. You will not be doing
that if your arrangement is at all like any I've ever seen.

The only time you will use this as a switch is if you choose to
disconnect the feed to the actual switching circuit for the windless.

Circuit breakers used to be certified to interrupt the current at rated
load or greater only five times, and came with instructions to replace
them if they had been tripped or manually operated more than twice.

Then along came the category called Switch Duty Breakers (SWB). These
are certified to pass UL, NFPA and NMEA requirements on matter how many
times they are cycled. Most still come with a note to replace if they
are opened by overcurrent - this is because the contact might be damaged.

I am paranoid (I find it serves me well) so I put Switch Duty Breakers
in my shop wiring to control the two banks of lights. Though I had
every intention of putting a pair of 3-way switches by the two doors, I
have been turning the lights on out there at least once a day for
fifteen years. When I tested them last (not something a normal person
can do), both were still within specification. I will put in the above
mentioned switches someday - if I don't kill my self getting to the
breaker box in the dark before that.

Matt Colie
Yachtman's Technical Support
www.yachtek.com



Peter Hendra wrote:
Larry,
I have jusy puchased a "Blue Seal" brand - "Bussman series High Amp
Circuit Breaker" - 125 Amps; for my anchor winch circuit.

Stated on the packaging under "featuires" is "combines switching and
circuit breaker function into one unit"

Question: Is it good practice to use it as a switch?

cheers
Peter Hendra


Why not ask Blue Sea how many switch
operations you can expect their breaker
to perform with your anchor winch load?
Then you'll have an answer you can rely
on. It goes without saying that you'll
be installing the breaker in what is
euphemistically considered a "damp
environment". Be sure to mention that to
Blue Sea, so as to discourage
presentation of results from laboratory
testing in a pristine environment.

As a general rule, combining functions
tends to result in compromises to one or
more of the functions. The links below
examine this issue for breakers as
switches, but not specifically for Blue
Sea products.

You obviously are aware of that and are
questioning Blue Sea's advertising.
You're just asking the wrong people: not
one of us on this group has probably
developed credible statistical data on
Blue Sea breaker failure rates as a
function of number of cycles of
operation. Their web site seems mute on
the subject also. Some breakers have
been designed to perform well as
switches and manufacturers often quote
performance data to support their claims.

http://www.etk.ee.kth.se/personal/li...eSubmitted.pdf

http://history.nasa.gov/alsj/alsj-CBsVsSwitches.html
Using Circuit Breakers as Switches

Good luck!

Chuck

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Peter Hendra wrote:
I suppose that I should have been more specific. What I intended to
convey was that I already have a heavy duty switch that cuts off the
power to the anchor circuit. I did not mean that I would use it as an
"up" or "down" switch. I was wondering whether I could use the breaker
as an on/off switch to control the power from the batteries

Thanks
Peter


Thanks for the clarification, Peter. It
really doesn't change anything though.
The point is that the more often you
switch a breaker on or off, the greater
the chance of failure. If you do it once
a week, the breaker may outlive your
boat. If you do it several times a day,
then depending on the breaker design and
a whole lot of other stuff, it may fail
before your boat does. Switches, on the
other hand, will usually sustain many
more operation cycles before failure.

Keep in mind that circuit breaker
deterioration and/or failure may not
even be evident in its use as a switch!
For all anyone knows, half the breakers
now in boats may not function in
accordance with their original
specifications. Who ever tests them?

For anything more specific, I think you
might want to consult Blue Sea.

In the end, it is all economics, broadly
defined.

Chuck

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

"Peter Hendra" wrote in message
...
| I suppose that I should have been more specific. What I intended to
| convey was that I already have a heavy duty switch that cuts off the
| power to the anchor circuit. I did not mean that I would use it as an
| "up" or "down" switch. I was wondering whether I could use the breaker
| as an on/off switch to control the power from the batteries
|
| Thanks
| Peter
|
| On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 10:21:48 -0400, Chuck
| wrote:
|
| Matt Colie wrote:
| Peter,
|
| You got one answer with no explanation.
|
| A circuit breaker is a switch. - Period (Some used in vehicles are
self
| -resetting, they are still switches but with no manual control.)
|
| The features note means that it is designed to be used as a manually
| controlled disconnect under load. The manufacturer believes this
device
| can do that safely.
|
| This is largely a moot point in your case. The windless switches are
| the devices you use to control the actual motor. You will not be doing
| that if your arrangement is at all like any I've ever seen.
|
| The only time you will use this as a switch is if you choose to
| disconnect the feed to the actual switching circuit for the windless.
|
| Circuit breakers used to be certified to interrupt the current at rated
| load or greater only five times, and came with instructions to replace
| them if they had been tripped or manually operated more than twice.
|
| Then along came the category called Switch Duty Breakers (SWB). These
| are certified to pass UL, NFPA and NMEA requirements on matter how many
| times they are cycled. Most still come with a note to replace if they
| are opened by overcurrent - this is because the contact might be
damaged.
|
| I am paranoid (I find it serves me well) so I put Switch Duty Breakers
| in my shop wiring to control the two banks of lights. Though I had
| every intention of putting a pair of 3-way switches by the two doors, I
| have been turning the lights on out there at least once a day for
| fifteen years. When I tested them last (not something a normal person
| can do), both were still within specification. I will put in the above
| mentioned switches someday - if I don't kill my self getting to the
| breaker box in the dark before that.
|
| Matt Colie
| Yachtman's Technical Support
| www.yachtek.com
|
|
|
| Peter Hendra wrote:
| Larry,
| I have jusy puchased a "Blue Seal" brand - "Bussman series High Amp
| Circuit Breaker" - 125 Amps; for my anchor winch circuit.
|
| Stated on the packaging under "featuires" is "combines switching and
| circuit breaker function into one unit"
|
| Question: Is it good practice to use it as a switch?
|
| cheers
| Peter Hendra
|
|
| Why not ask Blue Sea how many switch
| operations you can expect their breaker
| to perform with your anchor winch load?
| Then you'll have an answer you can rely
| on. It goes without saying that you'll
| be installing the breaker in what is
| euphemistically considered a "damp
| environment". Be sure to mention that to
| Blue Sea, so as to discourage
| presentation of results from laboratory
| testing in a pristine environment.
|
| As a general rule, combining functions
| tends to result in compromises to one or
| more of the functions. The links below
| examine this issue for breakers as
| switches, but not specifically for Blue
| Sea products.
|
| You obviously are aware of that and are
| questioning Blue Sea's advertising.
| You're just asking the wrong people: not
| one of us on this group has probably
| developed credible statistical data on
| Blue Sea breaker failure rates as a
| function of number of cycles of
| operation. Their web site seems mute on
| the subject also. Some breakers have
| been designed to perform well as
| switches and manufacturers often quote
| performance data to support their claims.
|
|
http://www.etk.ee.kth.se/personal/li...4TommieSubmitt
ed.pdf
|
| http://history.nasa.gov/alsj/alsj-CBsVsSwitches.html
| Using Circuit Breakers as Switches
|
| Good luck!
|
| Chuck
|
| ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet
News==----
| http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
Newsgroups
| ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
=----


On my previous boat I've used one of these as my anchor main switch to
isolate from the batteries for 10 years without a problem. Of course it is
not used to switch the high amps load for the anchor winch. It is used as an
isolation switch only. A load switch and an isolation switch are 2 different
things. Having said that, all the switches on the distribution/ switchboard
were also combined switches/circuit brakers. I never had a problem using
them for switching small loads (e.g. to turn the cabin lighting on or off).
Wout

On Apr 16, 10:21 am, Chuck wrote:
Matt Colie wrote:
Peter,

You got one answer with no explanation.

A circuit breaker is a switch. - Period (Some used in vehicles are self
-resetting, they are still switches but with no manual control.)

The features note means that it is designed to be used as a manually
controlled disconnect under load. The manufacturer believes this device
can do that safely.

This is largely a moot point in your case. The windless switches are
the devices you use to control the actual motor. You will not be doing
that if your arrangement is at all like any I've ever seen.

The only time you will use this as a switch is if you choose to
disconnect the feed to the actual switching circuit for the windless.

Circuit breakers used to be certified to interrupt the current at rated
load or greater only five times, and came with instructions to replace
them if they had been tripped or manually operated more than twice.

Then along came the category called Switch Duty Breakers (SWB). These
are certified to pass UL, NFPA and NMEA requirements on matter how many
times they are cycled. Most still come with a note to replace if they
are opened by overcurrent - this is because the contact might be damaged.

I am paranoid (I find it serves me well) so I put Switch Duty Breakers
in my shop wiring to control the two banks of lights. Though I had
every intention of putting a pair of 3-way switches by the two doors, I
have been turning the lights on out there at least once a day for
fifteen years. When I tested them last (not something a normal person
can do), both were still within specification. I will put in the above
mentioned switches someday - if I don't kill my self getting to the
breaker box in the dark before that.

Matt Colie
Yachtman's Technical Support
www.yachtek.com

Peter Hendra wrote:
Larry,
I have jusy puchased a "Blue Seal" brand - "Bussman series High Amp
Circuit Breaker" - 125 Amps; for my anchor winch circuit.

Stated on the packaging under "featuires" is "combines switching and
circuit breaker function into one unit"

Question: Is it good practice to use it as a switch?

cheers
Peter Hendra

Why not ask Blue Sea how many switch
operations you can expect their breaker
to perform with your anchor winch load?
Then you'll have an answer you can rely
on. It goes without saying that you'll
be installing the breaker in what is
euphemistically considered a "damp
environment". Be sure to mention that to
Blue Sea, so as to discourage
presentation of results from laboratory
testing in a pristine environment.

As a general rule, combining functions
tends to result in compromises to one or
more of the functions. The links below
examine this issue for breakers as
switches, but not specifically for Blue
Sea products.

You obviously are aware of that and are
questioning Blue Sea's advertising.
You're just asking the wrong people: not
one of us on this group has probably
developed credible statistical data on
Blue Sea breaker failure rates as a
function of number of cycles of
operation. Their web site seems mute on
the subject also. Some breakers have
been designed to perform well as
switches and manufacturers often quote
performance data to support their claims.

http://www.etk.ee.kth.se/personal/li...PMAPS04TommieS...

http://history.nasa.gov/alsj/alsj-CBsVsSwitches.html
Using Circuit Breakers as Switches

Good luck!

Chuck

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----http://www.newsfeeds.comThe #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

You may get the answers you want regarding breaker statistics from
Blue Sea Systems but, since they don't manufacture them, Carling may
be the better source. While on the subject of circuit protection,
it's worth mentioning the DC Circuit Wizard at their website. They
just put on their site and it appears to be a good tool. Although it
helps to have some technical knowledge to answer all the questions
accurately I think this will help many do-it-yourselfers, based on the
number of questions on circuit protection and wire sizing I see at
various sailing groups.
Tim

Peter Hendra wrote in
:

Question: Is it good practice to use it as a switch?

cheers
Peter Hendra



Yeah, it's ok. You won't own it long enough to wear it out. All the
sailboats I sail on use all the breakers as switches, anyways. They seem
fine. Make sure you have 125A WIRES to go with it....(c;

Larry
--

Chuck wrote in news:1176743785_1169
@sp12lax.superfeed.net:

Thanks for the clarification, Peter. It
really doesn't change anything though.
The point is that the more often you
switch a breaker on or off, the greater
the chance of failure. If you do it once
a week, the breaker may outlive your
boat. If you do it several times a day,
then depending on the breaker design and
a whole lot of other stuff, it may fail
before your boat does. Switches, on the
other hand, will usually sustain many
more operation cycles before failure.



I disagree. The more you move them, the less likely you are going to
find them inoperative from being corroded up by the sea air and open.
Using them as a power switch, the regular movement of the wiping contact
surfaces and a little arcing on the DC circuit under load, keeps the
contacts clean and free of interfering corrosion that cause them to
nuisance-trip because the corroded contacts get hotter than normal,
causing the bimetal strip to trip the breaker when nothing is really
wrong.

I know lots of 60s sailboats that have no power switches for any of their
DC lights other than to flip the breakers on and off for everything.
Those breakers are over 40 years old and STILL functioning fine....from
being constantly cleaned by the arcing and metal scraping across metal as
they are opened and closed.

I DO wish the boat breaker companies would spend a little more money on a
better product and the damned boat manufacturers would stop putting
electrical components in FLAMMABLE WOODEN BOXES, not fire/flameproof
enclosures. You're not allowed to install the breakers in your house on
a piece of plastic or plywood and just screw it into the sheetrock. Why
is this acceptable by the standards authorities for installation in a
damned boat?! ALL boats should have NEMA-approved AC and DC breaker
panels in proper NEMA panel boxes. Hell, just carve out a hole in the
mahogany and screw a double AC outlet to it with some wood screws. You
all know exactly where these AC and DC outlets are installed with NO
HANDIBOX to prevent fires from overcurrents. I'll rant about the
FLAMMABLE WIREWAYS another time....I wanna see CONDUIT, DAMMIT!

Damned cheap boat crap.....(d^

Larry
--