"Boater" wrote in message
...
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:03:32 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch
wrote:

The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM
builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and
management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have
designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices
are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced
themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking
that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for
Bull****.

Unions and labor costs are not the problem, and never have been. Non
union made toyotas and Hondas sell in greater numbers, despite being
considerable MORE expensive.

GM vehicles are crap. Honda's and Toyota's are good quality vehicles.
GM cannot put the effort, money, into quality due to the costs they
have to pay for union labor and union benefits.


Yep...you are indeed simple-minded.

You are always looking at the problem from the labor perspective and
immediately assign blame to management. You are the simple-minded idiot.

You need to look at it from all angles and find the cause of the problem.


Corporations are run by management, not by the workers. Lately, management
has been incompetent. It's that simple.


Grossly overpaid incompetent management. Unbelieveable the compensation
packages they receive while the industry heads for the dumpster.

"BAR" wrote in message
...
Boater wrote:
wrote:
On Nov 14, 3:12 pm, tin cup wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM
builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and
management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have
designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices
are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced
themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking
that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for
Bull****.
The Unions didn't do squat.
The bean counters and Wall Street's demand for maximum spread and
gambling did them in along with the rest of us.
How come you idiots keep blaming American workers whether they are in a
union or not. Obviously you are running a quicker mart or whatever and
paying your wage slaves 7.50 an hour no benefits and fire them before 6
mos.

Labor costs are a big part of gm's problem. Unfortunately the unions,
in their zeal, helped cause the problem. I mean let's face it, where
else besides auto plants could you get $25 - $30 dollars an hour for
semi-skilled labor. And the retirement programs are turning out to be
extremely costly. They were not based on your condtributions into an
account like today. They were fixed payouts based on your years of
service. A lot of those semi-skilled laborers retired at a fairly
young age and many get $50k or more a year in retirement.


What's your point, that a representative of assembly line works met at
the bargaining table with the employer of those workers and negotiated a
contract?

Negotiated a contract? I don't believe that for a minute.

That's the way it is supposed to be.

Who are we going to threaten with a strike this year?

The fix we are in right now has nothing to do with union workers and
everything to do with the landed aristocracy in this country of Wall
Street financial manipulators and corporate executives, and the hands-off
regulatory style of the Bush Administration. Even now, the crooks in the
Bush Administration won't tell us who is getting the bail-out money.

It has to do with union labor.

It's a wonder you know how to tie your shoelaces in the morning.
It's the greed of everyone involved in the auto industry....led by the
example of the senior management and the stupidity of the American consumer
always wanting bigger & better when durability, practicality, efficiency and
quality should have been the criteria.

"Don White" wrote in message
...



Grossly overpaid incompetent management. Unbelieveable the compensation
packages they receive while the industry heads for the dumpster.


Maybe. But they are under a contract to be paid it, just like the members
of the UAW employees.

As horrifying and ridiculous as it is, it only becomes an issue when times
are tough. When GM was making money hand over fist, nobody cared what the
top management made. That's also when the employment contracts were
written.

I am not saying it's right. It's just a matter of fact. In good times the
shareholders want the best management their money can buy to maximize their
return on investment. In bad times they just want good management.

Eisboch

On Nov 14, 4:38 pm, "Eisboch" wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message

...



Grossly overpaid incompetent management. Unbelieveable the compensation
packages they receive while the industry heads for the dumpster.

Maybe. But they are under a contract to be paid it, just like the members
of the UAW employees.

As horrifying and ridiculous as it is, it only becomes an issue when times
are tough. When GM was making money hand over fist, nobody cared what the
top management made. That's also when the employment contracts were
written.

I am not saying it's right. It's just a matter of fact. In good times the
shareholders want the best management their money can buy to maximize their
return on investment. In bad times they just want good management.

Eisboch

Here is an interesting set of stats from TCS daily:

"Here's a stat from my friend, blogger Mark Perry: Total compensation
per hour for the big-three carmakers is $73.20. That's a 52 percent
differential from Toyota's (Detroit South) $48 compensation (wages +
health and retirement benefits). In fact, the oversized UAW-driven pay
package for Detroit is 132 percent higher than that of the entire
manufacturing sector of the U.S., which comes in at $31.59."

So, the Dems want to bail out this bloated dinosaur?

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...


"Here's a stat from my friend, blogger Mark Perry: Total compensation
per hour for the big-three carmakers is $73.20. That's a 52 percent
differential from Toyota's (Detroit South) $48 compensation (wages +
health and retirement benefits). In fact, the oversized UAW-driven pay
package for Detroit is 132 percent higher than that of the entire
manufacturing sector of the U.S., which comes in at $31.59."

So, the Dems want to bail out this bloated dinosaur?


Please don't confuse our left leaning, union supporters with facts.
You'll just get called nasty names. They have a good thing going.

Eisboch

Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
Jim wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:03:32 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch
wrote:

The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM
builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and
management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have
designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices
are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced
themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking
that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for
Bull****.

Unions and labor costs are not the problem, and never have been. Non
union made toyotas and Hondas sell in greater numbers, despite being
considerable MORE expensive.
Right! Hondas and Toyotas are the problem. Quality is the problem.
Them scab non union workers is the problem. Ain't no union problems.
Boy, that's a relief.

BTW A billion dollars or so is going up in smoke around 8PM
tonight. Hope yall is watchin.


Life after the Navy, where you did not excel, must have been a hell
of a letdown for you, FloridaJim. I've never seen anyone here work
harder at being an idiot. Yes, yes, I know about Loogy and Just Wait,
but they don't have to work at it.

You're not that far from the Northeast Florida State Hospital at
Macclenny, right? I believe it is the one that serves your county.
You'd probably get better treatment there than at an old sailor's
home. Once you are Baker-acted, I'm sure you could get in there.


Has Harry turned a bit more sour than usual? It is amazing that his
candidate or party has won and he isn't jumping for joy in the streets.


It's interesting that neither you nor Florida Jim have boats. What are
you doing here?

Apparently we are bothering you something terrible. Ask your shrink how
to deal with it. You did make the appointment to see the lady at the
bricklayers union, didn't you?

Eisboch wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message
...


Grossly overpaid incompetent management. Unbelieveable the compensation
packages they receive while the industry heads for the dumpster.


Maybe. But they are under a contract to be paid it, just like the members
of the UAW employees.

As horrifying and ridiculous as it is, it only becomes an issue when times
are tough. When GM was making money hand over fist, nobody cared what the
top management made. That's also when the employment contracts were
written.

I am not saying it's right. It's just a matter of fact. In good times the
shareholders want the best management their money can buy to maximize their
return on investment. In bad times they just want good management.

Eisboch




You think there is a connection between "the best management" and the
astronomical deals many of these execs get? I don't.

Jim wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
Jim wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:03:32 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch
wrote:

The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM
builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and
management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have
designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas
prices
are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions
priced
themselves out of work and the management allowed short term
thinking
that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for
Bull****.

Unions and labor costs are not the problem, and never have been. Non
union made toyotas and Hondas sell in greater numbers, despite being
considerable MORE expensive.
Right! Hondas and Toyotas are the problem. Quality is the problem.
Them scab non union workers is the problem. Ain't no union
problems. Boy, that's a relief.

BTW A billion dollars or so is going up in smoke around 8PM
tonight. Hope yall is watchin.


Life after the Navy, where you did not excel, must have been a hell
of a letdown for you, FloridaJim. I've never seen anyone here work
harder at being an idiot. Yes, yes, I know about Loogy and Just
Wait, but they don't have to work at it.

You're not that far from the Northeast Florida State Hospital at
Macclenny, right? I believe it is the one that serves your county.
You'd probably get better treatment there than at an old sailor's
home. Once you are Baker-acted, I'm sure you could get in there.


Has Harry turned a bit more sour than usual? It is amazing that his
candidate or party has won and he isn't jumping for joy in the streets.


It's interesting that neither you nor Florida Jim have boats. What are
you doing here?

Apparently we are bothering you something terrible. Ask your shrink how
to deal with it. You did make the appointment to see the lady at the
bricklayers union, didn't you?


You seem to be obsessed with my wife. She's in the middle of setting up
a substantial research project right now. Maybe you could be a subject.

"Boater" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message
...


Grossly overpaid incompetent management. Unbelieveable the compensation
packages they receive while the industry heads for the dumpster.


Maybe. But they are under a contract to be paid it, just like the
members of the UAW employees.

As horrifying and ridiculous as it is, it only becomes an issue when
times are tough. When GM was making money hand over fist, nobody cared
what the top management made. That's also when the employment contracts
were written.

I am not saying it's right. It's just a matter of fact. In good times
the shareholders want the best management their money can buy to maximize
their return on investment. In bad times they just want good
management.

Eisboch


You think there is a connection between "the best management" and the
astronomical deals many of these execs get? I don't.

My point was that nobody complained when times were good.

Eisboch

Boater wrote:
Jim wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
Jim wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:03:32 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch
wrote:

The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM
builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and
management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have
designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas
prices
are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions
priced
themselves out of work and the management allowed short term
thinking
that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for
Bull****.

Unions and labor costs are not the problem, and never have been. Non
union made toyotas and Hondas sell in greater numbers, despite being
considerable MORE expensive.
Right! Hondas and Toyotas are the problem. Quality is the problem.
Them scab non union workers is the problem. Ain't no union
problems. Boy, that's a relief.

BTW A billion dollars or so is going up in smoke around 8PM
tonight. Hope yall is watchin.


Life after the Navy, where you did not excel, must have been a hell
of a letdown for you, FloridaJim. I've never seen anyone here work
harder at being an idiot. Yes, yes, I know about Loogy and Just
Wait, but they don't have to work at it.

You're not that far from the Northeast Florida State Hospital at
Macclenny, right? I believe it is the one that serves your county.
You'd probably get better treatment there than at an old sailor's
home. Once you are Baker-acted, I'm sure you could get in there.


Has Harry turned a bit more sour than usual? It is amazing that his
candidate or party has won and he isn't jumping for joy in the streets.


It's interesting that neither you nor Florida Jim have boats. What
are you doing here?

Apparently we are bothering you something terrible. Ask your shrink
how to deal with it. You did make the appointment to see the lady at
the bricklayers union, didn't you?


You seem to be obsessed with my wife. She's in the middle of setting up
a substantial research project right now. Maybe you could be a subject.

Good for her. What about your appointment with the shrink. Has that been
facilitated yet?