Here's an idea for the bailout versus bankruptcy debate as options for GM
(and possibly Ford and Chrysler)


Do both.

Agree to a government (taxpayer) financed cash infusion as part of the
reorganization plan in Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

GM apparently has multiple, costly contractual obligations to suppliers, for
unused facilities, pension plans, etc. that can only be restructured in a
bankruptcy situation, under the watch of a bankruptcy judge.

To pour money into GM without addressing these issues is, in the words of
the famous chant, "More of the same". GM will still be obligated to these
contracts, including retired pension and existing labor unions contracts.

Under Chapter 11 reorganization, GM can end contributions for existing
retired pensions. The cost of these pensions will be absorbed into an
existing federal pension insurance program (forget the name of it).

This arrangement will also afford GM to be completely restructured, lean and
mean, and costly contractual obligations that are no longer of benefit can
be terminated by the bankruptcy judge.
The judge can also require labor union contracts to be renegotiated,
management replaced and/or restructured, including salary and perk caps.

Then, with the "new" GM structure in place, a taxpayer financed investment
makes sense to kick start the reorganized company with the money spent to
develop and market modern, fuel efficient vehicles at a cost that can be
competitive with the likes of Toyota and Honda.

It makes sense to me. I also think that Toyota and Honda are walking down
the same path as the US auto industry and eventually will become bloated and
inefficient. We should restructure the US industry now, and stay ahead of
the curve.

Eisboch

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

Here's an idea for the bailout versus bankruptcy debate as options for GM
(and possibly Ford and Chrysler)


Do both.



BTW .... I don't take any credit for this plan. I heard it expressed by a
guest on Morning Joe.

Eisboch

On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 06:59:56 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:

Here's an idea for the bailout versus bankruptcy debate as options for GM
(and possibly Ford and Chrysler)


Do both.

Agree to a government (taxpayer) financed cash infusion as part of the
reorganization plan in Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

GM apparently has multiple, costly contractual obligations to suppliers, for
unused facilities, pension plans, etc. that can only be restructured in a
bankruptcy situation, under the watch of a bankruptcy judge.

To pour money into GM without addressing these issues is, in the words of
the famous chant, "More of the same". GM will still be obligated to these
contracts, including retired pension and existing labor unions contracts.

Under Chapter 11 reorganization, GM can end contributions for existing
retired pensions. The cost of these pensions will be absorbed into an
existing federal pension insurance program (forget the name of it).

This arrangement will also afford GM to be completely restructured, lean and
mean, and costly contractual obligations that are no longer of benefit can
be terminated by the bankruptcy judge.
The judge can also require labor union contracts to be renegotiated,
management replaced and/or restructured, including salary and perk caps.

Then, with the "new" GM structure in place, a taxpayer financed investment
makes sense to kick start the reorganized company with the money spent to
develop and market modern, fuel efficient vehicles at a cost that can be
competitive with the likes of Toyota and Honda.

It makes sense to me. I also think that Toyota and Honda are walking down
the same path as the US auto industry and eventually will become bloated and
inefficient. We should restructure the US industry now, and stay ahead of
the curve.

Just saw that on CNBC.

I'm skeptical - which is my default position, but some of it makes
sense.

On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 06:59:56 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:

Here's an idea for the bailout versus bankruptcy debate as options for GM
(and possibly Ford and Chrysler)


Do both.

Agree to a government (taxpayer) financed cash infusion as part of the
reorganization plan in Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

On the other hand...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/17/bu...hp&oref=slogin

"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ...
On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 06:59:56 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:

Here's an idea for the bailout versus bankruptcy debate as options for GM
(and possibly Ford and Chrysler)


Do both.

Agree to a government (taxpayer) financed cash infusion as part of the
reorganization plan in Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

On the other hand...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/17/bu...hp&oref=slogin


That's an option and it does away with unions for the most part.

I'd like to see the American auto industry survive, even if it still
includes union contracts and workers.
But, the whole structure including products, management and union
relationships/contracts needs to be rewritten, using a blank sheet. The
bailout plus Chapter 11 concept takes those decisions out of the hands of
existing management and BOD's and puts them in the hands of the bankrupcy
court.

Eisboch

Eisboch wrote:
"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ...
On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 06:59:56 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:

Here's an idea for the bailout versus bankruptcy debate as options for GM
(and possibly Ford and Chrysler)


Do both.

Agree to a government (taxpayer) financed cash infusion as part of the
reorganization plan in Chapter 11 bankruptcy.
On the other hand...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/17/bu...hp&oref=slogin


That's an option and it does away with unions for the most part.

I'd like to see the American auto industry survive, even if it still
includes union contracts and workers.
But, the whole structure including products, management and union
relationships/contracts needs to be rewritten, using a blank sheet. The
bailout plus Chapter 11 concept takes those decisions out of the hands of
existing management and BOD's and puts them in the hands of the bankrupcy
court.

Eisboch




Obviously, the answer for America is to turn all workers into chattel.

On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 06:59:56 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:

Here's an idea for the bailout versus bankruptcy debate as options for GM
(and possibly Ford and Chrysler)


Do both.

Agree to a government (taxpayer) financed cash infusion as part of the
reorganization plan in Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

GM apparently has multiple, costly contractual obligations to suppliers, for
unused facilities, pension plans, etc. that can only be restructured in a
bankruptcy situation, under the watch of a bankruptcy judge.

To pour money into GM without addressing these issues is, in the words of
the famous chant, "More of the same". GM will still be obligated to these
contracts, including retired pension and existing labor unions contracts.

Under Chapter 11 reorganization, GM can end contributions for existing
retired pensions. The cost of these pensions will be absorbed into an
existing federal pension insurance program (forget the name of it).

This arrangement will also afford GM to be completely restructured, lean and
mean, and costly contractual obligations that are no longer of benefit can
be terminated by the bankruptcy judge.
The judge can also require labor union contracts to be renegotiated,
management replaced and/or restructured, including salary and perk caps.

Then, with the "new" GM structure in place, a taxpayer financed investment
makes sense to kick start the reorganized company with the money spent to
develop and market modern, fuel efficient vehicles at a cost that can be
competitive with the likes of Toyota and Honda.

It makes sense to me. I also think that Toyota and Honda are walking down
the same path as the US auto industry and eventually will become bloated and
inefficient. We should restructure the US industry now, and stay ahead of
the curve.

Eisboch


Bottom line...will the plan buy more votes than giving GM a few billion
every week to pay the union members?
--
A Harry Krause truism:

"It's not a *baby* kicking, beautiful bride, it's just a fetus!"

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
Here's an idea for the bailout versus bankruptcy debate as options for GM
(and possibly Ford and Chrysler)


Do both.

Agree to a government (taxpayer) financed cash infusion as part of the
reorganization plan in Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

GM apparently has multiple, costly contractual obligations to suppliers,
for unused facilities, pension plans, etc. that can only be restructured
in a bankruptcy situation, under the watch of a bankruptcy judge.

To pour money into GM without addressing these issues is, in the words of
the famous chant, "More of the same". GM will still be obligated to
these contracts, including retired pension and existing labor unions
contracts.

Under Chapter 11 reorganization, GM can end contributions for existing
retired pensions. The cost of these pensions will be absorbed into an
existing federal pension insurance program (forget the name of it).

This arrangement will also afford GM to be completely restructured, lean
and mean, and costly contractual obligations that are no longer of benefit
can be terminated by the bankruptcy judge.
The judge can also require labor union contracts to be renegotiated,
management replaced and/or restructured, including salary and perk caps.

Then, with the "new" GM structure in place, a taxpayer financed investment
makes sense to kick start the reorganized company with the money spent to
develop and market modern, fuel efficient vehicles at a cost that can be
competitive with the likes of Toyota and Honda.

It makes sense to me. I also think that Toyota and Honda are walking
down the same path as the US auto industry and eventually will become
bloated and inefficient. We should restructure the US industry now, and
stay ahead of the curve.

Eisboch

Makes sense to me. But I would say best to wait until in chapter 11 before
giving them money. Any agreements or caveats with money at this point at no
longer valid in chapter 11.

Chapter 11 must come first as once in chapter 11 they are talking their
first real step in fixing the real problems. More good cash after bad, not
a good idea. They must do chapter 11 first.

Boater wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ...
On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 06:59:56 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:

Here's an idea for the bailout versus bankruptcy debate as options
for GM
(and possibly Ford and Chrysler)


Do both.

Agree to a government (taxpayer) financed cash infusion as part of the
reorganization plan in Chapter 11 bankruptcy.
On the other hand...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/17/bu...hp&oref=slogin



That's an option and it does away with unions for the most part.

I'd like to see the American auto industry survive, even if it still
includes union contracts and workers.
But, the whole structure including products, management and union
relationships/contracts needs to be rewritten, using a blank sheet.
The bailout plus Chapter 11 concept takes those decisions out of the
hands of existing management and BOD's and puts them in the hands of
the bankrupcy court.

Eisboch



Obviously, the answer for America is to turn all workers into chattel.

Chattel of King Obama? What do you stand to gain? A job as Court Jester.

"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ...
On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 06:59:56 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:

Here's an idea for the bailout versus bankruptcy debate as options for GM
(and possibly Ford and Chrysler)


Do both.

Agree to a government (taxpayer) financed cash infusion as part of the
reorganization plan in Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

GM apparently has multiple, costly contractual obligations to suppliers,
for
unused facilities, pension plans, etc. that can only be restructured in a
bankruptcy situation, under the watch of a bankruptcy judge.

To pour money into GM without addressing these issues is, in the words of
the famous chant, "More of the same". GM will still be obligated to
these
contracts, including retired pension and existing labor unions contracts.

Under Chapter 11 reorganization, GM can end contributions for existing
retired pensions. The cost of these pensions will be absorbed into an
existing federal pension insurance program (forget the name of it).

This arrangement will also afford GM to be completely restructured, lean
and
mean, and costly contractual obligations that are no longer of benefit can
be terminated by the bankruptcy judge.
The judge can also require labor union contracts to be renegotiated,
management replaced and/or restructured, including salary and perk caps.

Then, with the "new" GM structure in place, a taxpayer financed investment
makes sense to kick start the reorganized company with the money spent to
develop and market modern, fuel efficient vehicles at a cost that can be
competitive with the likes of Toyota and Honda.

It makes sense to me. I also think that Toyota and Honda are walking
down
the same path as the US auto industry and eventually will become bloated
and
inefficient. We should restructure the US industry now, and stay ahead
of
the curve.

Just saw that on CNBC.

I'm skeptical - which is my default position, but some of it makes
sense.

You scepticism is well founded. What is to stop GM from doing with the new
money:

Bail out management with fat packages and paid up pension transfers then do
chapter 11 before the judge can stop such activities? Then just as broke as
before?

Just to get the hooks deeper into taxpayers that are not even in the auto
industry?

Union rats are not the only rats in a scurry. Management and the board rats
are too.