"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 19:50:30 -0700, "Canuck57"
wrote:


"Eisboch" wrote in message
om...
Link provided in another newgroup.

Real or pure propaganda?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72cHf....kedrosky.com/

Eisboch

Propaganda. First and most obvious, Toyota, Honda and Nissan and more I
am
sure also make vehicles in the US, not just the loser 3.

Second issue is that if GM goes down and out, then Ford and Chrysler have
a
better chance as they pick up former GM customers and increase market
share.
This is very much in part a supply and demand issue, GM has no demand. By
letting GM go down, Chrysler and Ford stand a better chance.

You keep hammering on GM, so I assume you once bought a Vega.
But the fact is Ford and Chrysler are also asking for fed money.
So don't think they'll be around if GM goes down.
Personally, I would move from GM to Toyota, without giving Ford or
Chrysler a thought.
Here's some car facts for those interested.
Often those in California or Toyota/Honda-heads don't have a real
picture of the wider world.
This was posted in another group as "6 myths about the Detroit 3."

http://www.freep.com/article/20081117/COL14/811170379

The debate over aid to the Detroit-based automakers is awash with
half-truths and misrepresentations that are endlessly repeated by
everyone from members of Congress to journalists.
Here are six myths about the companies and their vehicles, and the
reality in each case.

Myth No. 1
Nobody buys their vehicles.

Reality
General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC sold 8.5 million
vehicles in the United States last year and millions more around the
world.
GM outsold Toyota by about 1.2 million vehicles in the United States
last year and holds a U.S. lead over Toyota of about 560,000 so far
this year.
Globally, GM in 2007 remained the world's largest automaker, selling
9,369,524 vehicles worldwide -- about 3,000 more than Toyota.
Ford outsold Honda by about 850,000 and Nissan by more than 1.3
million vehicles in the United States last year.
Chrysler sold more vehicles here than Nissan and Hyundai combined in
2007 and so far this year.

Myth No. 2
They build unreliable junk.

Reality
The creaky, leaky vehicles of the 1980s and '90s are long gone.
Consumer Reports recently found that "Ford's reliability is now on par
with good Japanese automakers." The independent J.D. Power Initial
Quality Study scored Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Ford, GMC, Mercury,
Pontiac and Lincoln brands' overall quality as high or higher than
that of Acura, Audi, BMW, Honda, Nissan, Scion, Volkswagen and Volvo.
Power rated the Chevrolet Malibu the highest-quality midsize sedan.
Both the Malibu and Ford Fusion scored better than the Honda Accord
and Toyota Camry.

Myth No. 3
They build gas-guzzlers.

Reality
All of the Detroit Three build midsize sedans the Environmental
Protection Agency rates at 29-33 miles per gallon on the highway. The
most fuel-efficient Chevrolet Malibu gets 33 m.p.g. on the highway, 2
m.p.g better than the best Honda Accord. The most fuel-efficient Ford
Focus has the same highway fuel economy ratings as the most efficient
Toyota Corolla.
The most fuel-efficient Chevrolet Cobalt has the same city fuel
economy and better highway fuel economy than the most efficient
non-hybrid Honda Civic.
A recent study by Edmunds.com found that the Chevrolet Aveo subcompact
is the least expensive car to buy and operate.

Myth No. 4
They already got a $25-billion bailout.

Reality
None of that money has been lent out and may not be for more than a
year. In addition, it can, by law, be used only to invest in future
vehicles and technology, so it has no effect on the shortage of
operating cash the companies face because of the economic slowdown
that's killing them now.

Myth No. 5
GM, Ford and Chrysler are idiots for investing in pickups and SUVs.

Reality
The domestic companies' lineup has been truck-heavy, but Toyota,
Nissan, Mercedes-Benz and BMW have all spent billions of dollars on
pickups and SUVs because trucks are a large and historically
profitable part of the auto industry.
The most fuel-efficient full-size pickups from GM, Ford and Chrysler
all have higher EPA fuel economy ratings than Toyota and Nissan's
full-size pickups.

Myth No. 6
They don't build hybrids.

Reality
The Detroit Three got into the hybrid business late, but Ford and GM
each now offers more hybrid models than Honda or Nissan, with several
more due to hit the road in early 2009.




The problem is perception in the eyes of the consumer. The "green" movement
emphasises small, fuel efficient vehicles and Detroit still has the image of
only building low quality gas guzzlers.
It isn't so. The gas guzzlers are being phased out, as demand decreases.
Isn't it interesting that as Detroit downsizes, manufacturers like Toyota
are upsizing. The Tundra pickup has become huge, as large as my F-250
SuperDuty Ford and it gets worse mileage. The once very well done Maxima is
becoming an oversized boat of a car, as is Lexus.

Eisboch

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 19:50:30 -0700, "Canuck57"
wrote:


"Eisboch" wrote in message
news:lLudnTmVRqBIYLzUnZ2dnUVZ_jmdnZ2d@giganews. com...
Link provided in another newgroup.

Real or pure propaganda?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72cHf....kedrosky.com/

Eisboch

Propaganda. First and most obvious, Toyota, Honda and Nissan and more I
am
sure also make vehicles in the US, not just the loser 3.

Second issue is that if GM goes down and out, then Ford and Chrysler have
a
better chance as they pick up former GM customers and increase market
share.
This is very much in part a supply and demand issue, GM has no demand.
By
letting GM go down, Chrysler and Ford stand a better chance.

You keep hammering on GM, so I assume you once bought a Vega.
But the fact is Ford and Chrysler are also asking for fed money.
So don't think they'll be around if GM goes down.
Personally, I would move from GM to Toyota, without giving Ford or
Chrysler a thought.
Here's some car facts for those interested.
Often those in California or Toyota/Honda-heads don't have a real
picture of the wider world.
This was posted in another group as "6 myths about the Detroit 3."

http://www.freep.com/article/20081117/COL14/811170379

The debate over aid to the Detroit-based automakers is awash with
half-truths and misrepresentations that are endlessly repeated by
everyone from members of Congress to journalists.
Here are six myths about the companies and their vehicles, and the
reality in each case.

Myth No. 1
Nobody buys their vehicles.

Reality
General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC sold 8.5 million
vehicles in the United States last year and millions more around the
world.
GM outsold Toyota by about 1.2 million vehicles in the United States
last year and holds a U.S. lead over Toyota of about 560,000 so far
this year.
Globally, GM in 2007 remained the world's largest automaker, selling
9,369,524 vehicles worldwide -- about 3,000 more than Toyota.
Ford outsold Honda by about 850,000 and Nissan by more than 1.3
million vehicles in the United States last year.
Chrysler sold more vehicles here than Nissan and Hyundai combined in
2007 and so far this year.

Myth No. 2
They build unreliable junk.

Reality
The creaky, leaky vehicles of the 1980s and '90s are long gone.
Consumer Reports recently found that "Ford's reliability is now on par
with good Japanese automakers." The independent J.D. Power Initial
Quality Study scored Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Ford, GMC, Mercury,
Pontiac and Lincoln brands' overall quality as high or higher than
that of Acura, Audi, BMW, Honda, Nissan, Scion, Volkswagen and Volvo.
Power rated the Chevrolet Malibu the highest-quality midsize sedan.
Both the Malibu and Ford Fusion scored better than the Honda Accord
and Toyota Camry.

Myth No. 3
They build gas-guzzlers.

Reality
All of the Detroit Three build midsize sedans the Environmental
Protection Agency rates at 29-33 miles per gallon on the highway. The
most fuel-efficient Chevrolet Malibu gets 33 m.p.g. on the highway, 2
m.p.g better than the best Honda Accord. The most fuel-efficient Ford
Focus has the same highway fuel economy ratings as the most efficient
Toyota Corolla.
The most fuel-efficient Chevrolet Cobalt has the same city fuel
economy and better highway fuel economy than the most efficient
non-hybrid Honda Civic.
A recent study by Edmunds.com found that the Chevrolet Aveo subcompact
is the least expensive car to buy and operate.

Myth No. 4
They already got a $25-billion bailout.

Reality
None of that money has been lent out and may not be for more than a
year. In addition, it can, by law, be used only to invest in future
vehicles and technology, so it has no effect on the shortage of
operating cash the companies face because of the economic slowdown
that's killing them now.

Myth No. 5
GM, Ford and Chrysler are idiots for investing in pickups and SUVs.

Reality
The domestic companies' lineup has been truck-heavy, but Toyota,
Nissan, Mercedes-Benz and BMW have all spent billions of dollars on
pickups and SUVs because trucks are a large and historically
profitable part of the auto industry.
The most fuel-efficient full-size pickups from GM, Ford and Chrysler
all have higher EPA fuel economy ratings than Toyota and Nissan's
full-size pickups.

Myth No. 6
They don't build hybrids.

Reality
The Detroit Three got into the hybrid business late, but Ford and GM
each now offers more hybrid models than Honda or Nissan, with several
more due to hit the road in early 2009.




The problem is perception in the eyes of the consumer. The "green"
movement emphasises small, fuel efficient vehicles and Detroit still has
the image of only building low quality gas guzzlers.
It isn't so. The gas guzzlers are being phased out, as demand decreases.
Isn't it interesting that as Detroit downsizes, manufacturers like Toyota
are upsizing. The Tundra pickup has become huge, as large as my F-250
SuperDuty Ford and it gets worse mileage. The once very well done Maxima
is becoming an oversized boat of a car, as is Lexus.

Eisboch


Just possibly the Japanese companies are late to the party. We'll see how
nimble they are to reverse the trend of their larger offerings.