Link provided in another newgroup.

Real or pure propaganda?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72cHf....kedrosky.com/

Eisboch

On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 18:21:49 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:

Link provided in another newgroup.

Real or pure propaganda?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72cHf....kedrosky.com/

Eisboch


"We can loan 25 billion now, or lose 156 billion later."

Notice that the only recourse to the loan is total, 100% collapse. No
comments made about anything in between, such as a chapter 11 bankruptcy.
Sounds like typical liberal (no, not CNN, Reuters, NY Times, !!)
propaganda.
--
A Harry Krause truism:

"It's not a *baby* kicking, beautiful bride, it's just a fetus!"

On Nov 17, 5:21*pm, "Eisboch" wrote:
Link provided in another newgroup.

Real or pure propaganda?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72cHf.../paul.kedrosky.....

Eisboch

I wonder if a 90 +/- day layoff would help. I mean. people ARE
entitled to unemployment compensation. Cease production for a while
and get some of the stock cleared out.

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
Link provided in another newgroup.

Real or pure propaganda?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72cHf....kedrosky.com/

Eisboch

Propaganda. First and most obvious, Toyota, Honda and Nissan and more I am
sure also make vehicles in the US, not just the loser 3.

Second issue is that if GM goes down and out, then Ford and Chrysler have a
better chance as they pick up former GM customers and increase market share.
This is very much in part a supply and demand issue, GM has no demand. By
letting GM go down, Chrysler and Ford stand a better chance.

It is like a raft that can only save 2, but the third overweight out of
shape whale wants in and they don't care who they kill to have it for
themselves.

In fact, to employ North Americans, you just buy a Toyota made in Texas. Or
a Honda from Ontario. Or a Nissan from Tennessee. Them be Americans and
Canadians making profitable cars and trucks. You do NOT have to buy Detroit
to buy American!!!

GM, UAW and CAW socialist greed is doing the hard sell PR BS.

And I don't see others being bailed out. Anyone helping Citi? Sun? NorTel?
Bombardier? Mercury? Lund? Brunswick? Grady? Or how about those laid off
from other companies?

Give me a break. If we had representation worth salt they would publicly
humiliate and besmirch UAW, CAW and GM for trying this stunt. Why should a
person working in Costco in Montana pay for a union lard a$$ in Michigan or
executives making 6 or 7 digits? Makes no sense. Just shows moral decay
and greed lust.

"Tim" wrote in message
...
On Nov 17, 5:21 pm, "Eisboch" wrote:
Link provided in another newgroup.

Real or pure propaganda?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72cHf.../paul.kedrosky....

Eisboch

I wonder if a 90 +/- day layoff would help. I mean. people ARE
entitled to unemployment compensation. Cease production for a while
and get some of the stock cleared out.
----
Debt and benefits continue but no income. Heck, they can even afford
severance for the masses any more.

GM is on it's knees to Chapter 11.

The question is will it be before or after Christmas? I was reading
somewhere Euro suppliers now want cash and "insurance" on non-payment has
been revoked.

GM might only have days. Lets hope Chapter 11...it will force real change
and less leaching and blood sucking talk. It will force union and
management to talk and walk the walk for the first time in over 30 years.

On Nov 17, 9:58 pm, "Canuck57" wrote:
"Tim" wrote in message

...
On Nov 17, 5:21 pm, "Eisboch" wrote:

Link provided in another newgroup.

Real or pure propaganda?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72cHf.../paul.kedrosky....

Eisboch

I wonder if a 90 +/- day layoff would help. I mean. people ARE
entitled to unemployment compensation. Cease production for a while
and get some of the stock cleared out.
----
Debt and benefits continue but no income. Heck, they can even afford
severance for the masses any more.

GM is on it's knees to Chapter 11.

The question is will it be before or after Christmas? I was reading
somewhere Euro suppliers now want cash and "insurance" on non-payment has
been revoked.

GM might only have days. Lets hope Chapter 11...it will force real change
and less leaching and blood sucking talk. It will force union and
management to talk and walk the walk for the first time in over 30 years.

With all this talk about bankruptcy, would YOU buy a GM product
thinking their warranty may be worthless? Obviously, no. The reality
is that GM is already worthless so it doesnt matter if they sell or
not.

On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 19:50:30 -0700, "Canuck57"
wrote:


"Eisboch" wrote in message
m...
Link provided in another newgroup.

Real or pure propaganda?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72cHf....kedrosky.com/

Eisboch

Propaganda. First and most obvious, Toyota, Honda and Nissan and more I am
sure also make vehicles in the US, not just the loser 3.

Second issue is that if GM goes down and out, then Ford and Chrysler have a
better chance as they pick up former GM customers and increase market share.
This is very much in part a supply and demand issue, GM has no demand. By
letting GM go down, Chrysler and Ford stand a better chance.

You keep hammering on GM, so I assume you once bought a Vega.
But the fact is Ford and Chrysler are also asking for fed money.
So don't think they'll be around if GM goes down.
Personally, I would move from GM to Toyota, without giving Ford or
Chrysler a thought.
Here's some car facts for those interested.
Often those in California or Toyota/Honda-heads don't have a real
picture of the wider world.
This was posted in another group as "6 myths about the Detroit 3."

http://www.freep.com/article/20081117/COL14/811170379

The debate over aid to the Detroit-based automakers is awash with
half-truths and misrepresentations that are endlessly repeated by
everyone from members of Congress to journalists.
Here are six myths about the companies and their vehicles, and the
reality in each case.

Myth No. 1
Nobody buys their vehicles.

Reality
General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC sold 8.5 million
vehicles in the United States last year and millions more around the
world.
GM outsold Toyota by about 1.2 million vehicles in the United States
last year and holds a U.S. lead over Toyota of about 560,000 so far
this year.
Globally, GM in 2007 remained the world's largest automaker, selling
9,369,524 vehicles worldwide -- about 3,000 more than Toyota.
Ford outsold Honda by about 850,000 and Nissan by more than 1.3
million vehicles in the United States last year.
Chrysler sold more vehicles here than Nissan and Hyundai combined in
2007 and so far this year.

Myth No. 2
They build unreliable junk.

Reality
The creaky, leaky vehicles of the 1980s and '90s are long gone.
Consumer Reports recently found that "Ford's reliability is now on par
with good Japanese automakers." The independent J.D. Power Initial
Quality Study scored Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Ford, GMC, Mercury,
Pontiac and Lincoln brands' overall quality as high or higher than
that of Acura, Audi, BMW, Honda, Nissan, Scion, Volkswagen and Volvo.
Power rated the Chevrolet Malibu the highest-quality midsize sedan.
Both the Malibu and Ford Fusion scored better than the Honda Accord
and Toyota Camry.

Myth No. 3
They build gas-guzzlers.

Reality
All of the Detroit Three build midsize sedans the Environmental
Protection Agency rates at 29-33 miles per gallon on the highway. The
most fuel-efficient Chevrolet Malibu gets 33 m.p.g. on the highway, 2
m.p.g better than the best Honda Accord. The most fuel-efficient Ford
Focus has the same highway fuel economy ratings as the most efficient
Toyota Corolla.
The most fuel-efficient Chevrolet Cobalt has the same city fuel
economy and better highway fuel economy than the most efficient
non-hybrid Honda Civic.
A recent study by Edmunds.com found that the Chevrolet Aveo subcompact
is the least expensive car to buy and operate.

Myth No. 4
They already got a $25-billion bailout.

Reality
None of that money has been lent out and may not be for more than a
year. In addition, it can, by law, be used only to invest in future
vehicles and technology, so it has no effect on the shortage of
operating cash the companies face because of the economic slowdown
that's killing them now.

Myth No. 5
GM, Ford and Chrysler are idiots for investing in pickups and SUVs.

Reality
The domestic companies' lineup has been truck-heavy, but Toyota,
Nissan, Mercedes-Benz and BMW have all spent billions of dollars on
pickups and SUVs because trucks are a large and historically
profitable part of the auto industry.
The most fuel-efficient full-size pickups from GM, Ford and Chrysler
all have higher EPA fuel economy ratings than Toyota and Nissan's
full-size pickups.

Myth No. 6
They don't build hybrids.

Reality
The Detroit Three got into the hybrid business late, but Ford and GM
each now offers more hybrid models than Honda or Nissan, with several
more due to hit the road in early 2009.

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
On Nov 17, 9:58 pm, "Canuck57" wrote:
"Tim" wrote in message

...
On Nov 17, 5:21 pm, "Eisboch" wrote:

Link provided in another newgroup.

Real or pure propaganda?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72cHf.../paul.kedrosky....

Eisboch

I wonder if a 90 +/- day layoff would help. I mean. people ARE
entitled to unemployment compensation. Cease production for a while
and get some of the stock cleared out.
----
Debt and benefits continue but no income. Heck, they can even afford
severance for the masses any more.

GM is on it's knees to Chapter 11.

The question is will it be before or after Christmas? I was reading
somewhere Euro suppliers now want cash and "insurance" on non-payment has
been revoked.

GM might only have days. Lets hope Chapter 11...it will force real
change
and less leaching and blood sucking talk. It will force union and
management to talk and walk the walk for the first time in over 30 years.

With all this talk about bankruptcy, would YOU buy a GM product
thinking their warranty may be worthless? Obviously, no. The reality
is that GM is already worthless so it doesnt matter if they sell or
not.

But my daughters 2000 Ford Explorer was a POS. Even the dealer admitted
after too many miles it should have gone back on the lemon law. But they
could supply a warrantee like the after market warrantee where you can get
it fixed at somewhere else than the dealer. Just modified to a dealer is
warrantee station.

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
On Nov 17, 9:58 pm, "Canuck57" wrote:
"Tim" wrote in message

...
On Nov 17, 5:21 pm, "Eisboch" wrote:

Link provided in another newgroup.

Real or pure propaganda?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72cHf.../paul.kedrosky....

Eisboch

I wonder if a 90 +/- day layoff would help. I mean. people ARE
entitled to unemployment compensation. Cease production for a while
and get some of the stock cleared out.
----
Debt and benefits continue but no income. Heck, they can even afford
severance for the masses any more.

GM is on it's knees to Chapter 11.

The question is will it be before or after Christmas? I was reading
somewhere Euro suppliers now want cash and "insurance" on non-payment has
been revoked.

GM might only have days. Lets hope Chapter 11...it will force real
change
and less leaching and blood sucking talk. It will force union and
management to talk and walk the walk for the first time in over 30 years.

With all this talk about bankruptcy, would YOU buy a GM product
thinking their warranty may be worthless? Obviously, no. The reality
is that GM is already worthless so it doesnt matter if they sell or
not.

I might, how cheap is it?

Factory condition Sierra with a Duramax Diesel, auto, legal, $20k loaded and
odo at under 200? Made 2 to 8 months ago, look me up. Any main line color
will work, as long as it has good leather and bun warmers.

Must be made more than 2 months ago, I don't want left over scavenged parts
in it.

4 cylinder, nope, not unless I can get more at the recycling depot.

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...


With all this talk about bankruptcy, would YOU buy a GM product
thinking their warranty may be worthless? Obviously, no. The reality
is that GM is already worthless so it doesnt matter if they sell or
not.


If a deal were made for the government to provide restructuring money in a
Chapter 11 reorganization, it may alleviate fears on the consumer's part.
Right now is the opportune time however. Consumer purchases of new vehicles
is at an all time low. I'd would do it, suck it up, reorganize and get it
behind me if I were king of GM.

Meanwhile, the fact that GM is circulating that ad that I posted the link to
is very revealing. It certainly doesn't do anything to bolster consumer
confidence to buy a car from any of the big 3. They are basically
admitting that it is over unless they get a bailout. Never saw anything
like that before.
The "bailout" of Chrysler years ago was a completely different animal. It
wasn't a bailout, it was a loan and it was tied to very demanding
conditions. It was also repaid in short order. I remember Iacocca took a
salary of one dollar during the loan period. It didn't really affect the
bottom line, but it was symbolic and generated trust and confidence.

Speaking of Iacocca, his book "Where Have All the Leaders Gone?" is worth
reading, just to get a feel for how he thinks if nothing else.

Eisboch