On Nov 18, 8:07*am, "Len McLaughlin" wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message

...



wrote in message
et...
On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 18:28:18 -0700, Canuck57 wrote:

Here is a solution for GM that will work.

Each and every employee of GM is to buy stock in the company. *Proceeds
will be used to fund GM financial needs.

Workers owning the company? *Isn't that communism?

Of course not.

Think UPS
Think Harley-Davidson.
There are several more examples I can't think of at the moment.

I was going to try it with the company I owned prior to the unexpected,
surprise offer of acquisition by another company.
The idea was an employee buyout, over time, at a price that now, as I
reflect back, was incredibly cheap.
I would have been paid out over a 10-15 year period that would help fund
my retirement.

I turned the "keys" over to a young, smart guy (this wasn't my son ... he
came later) *who wanted to run the company in the future.
After three months, he handed the keys back and said he didn't realize the
time and stress requirements of the job.
It was understandable. *He had a young family, two small kids, and the
demands of the job takes it's toll on the family.

In the case of Harley, the employee buyout from Brunswick is what
transformed it back to being a profitable company.
The quality of the bikes also improved dramatically.

Eisboch

====================

Excellent way to go and maybe the only way for the future.
Isn't Canwest in this picture too. *I'm sure there's many more but you can
bet the CEOs will fight it to the end unless the government forces it on
them.
As the next poster mentions , the old them/us mentality can be *a problem
but once your paycheck is tied to your input, that mentality can change
quickly.

The strike should be a relic of the past, it can be damaging to both the
employee and/or the company. The auto industry is where it's at because of
strong unions as well as bad management. *As owners , workers will have an
option vote to just having a strike vote.

Now the workers can lose everything including their pensions, so there has
to be a better way than handing out million dollar bonuses to non-performing
CEOs., while the *paychecks *and the pensions goes down the drain.

I'm a firm believer that the best ideas can most often come from the shop
floor and not the boardroom.



It would be interesting to see if the companies and the unions would
agree to say a 20%-25% wage reduction and freeze at that level for say
a 30% total share in the company, making the union the largest share
holder. The union would them be responsible for providing best trained
labour for the joint enterprise.

On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 22:17:33 -0500, BAR wrote:

No need to rip or beg from taxpayers
like beggars and thieves

No. Rip off the shareholders, especially the widows and orphans.

Casady

Richard Casady wrote:
On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 22:17:33 -0500, BAR wrote:

No need to rip or beg from taxpayers
like beggars and thieves

No. Rip off the shareholders, especially the widows and orphans.

Casady

The share holders bought into the risk. We didn't

"Canuck57" wrote in message
...
Here is a solution for GM that will work.

Each and every employee of GM is to buy stock in the company. Proceeds
will be used to fund GM financial needs.

Employees must own shares to work at GM. The amount is determined by
their compensation. They must own at least 20% of their annual
compensation in common shares of GM. If you are new, you must buy 5% of
your anticipate income immediately or you cannot be hired.

Managers need to own at least 25% minimum.

Executives must own the equivalent of last years total compensation or
more. This also applies to board members. Board members and executive not
owning at least 50% today are to be discharged unless they correct the
issue in 20 days or less.

Shares already owned count so you don't have to buy more if you already
have them. You may own them any way you wish, but must control the
percentage of shares required.

If you don't have them then 15% of your wage/salary goes towards share
purchases until topped up to the minimum for your job and pay scale. If
you are an executive or manager, that amount increases to 25%. Shares
will be accumulated at the months lowest daily average minus 5%. You are
not allowed to sell shares below your percentage or those not vested for 3
years.

Shares will be initially issued by GM, later if solvent they will be
purchased off the market but for now new issues to raise cash. The cash
will be used to finance the company. No need to rip or beg from taxpayers
like beggars and thieves. Plus, you get to own the company and vote for
your choice of the CEO!

Solves a lot of problems for everyone.

CAW/UAW, put your money where your mouth is!

What you're suggesting is socializing the ownership of GM. It's not full-on
Marxism, but basically the same thing.

In this case the employees are not the problem but are expected to provide
the solution. This is typical of what is happening eveywhe non-owners
involuntarily forced into becoming investors in banks and auto
manufacturers, whether it be taxpayers or GM employees.

How much longer is socialism going to have to support the capitalists and
"free" markets?

"Canuck57" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
t...
On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 18:28:18 -0700, Canuck57 wrote:

Here is a solution for GM that will work.

Each and every employee of GM is to buy stock in the company. Proceeds
will be used to fund GM financial needs.

Workers owning the company? Isn't that communism?

Nope. Not at all. Some very successful companies have many employees
financially involved it its well being. Which is precisely GMs problem,
making them shareholders diffuses 30 years of union rant.

That's fine if the financial involvement is voluntary. Mandatory investment
by workers is essentially socializing ownership - the same principles as
Marxism.

100% employee-owned businesses generally do well. That is because as
owners, if they want to exploit and mismanage the company, they are only
exploiting and mismanaging themselves. There is a direct realtionship for
financial reward, such as performing well, rather than getting rewarded
whether the company is failing or succeeding (the norm for today's
executives).

However, even if employees flocked together to buy some of GM, as a class
they would still be in a minority position. Why would anyone allow a
minority shareholder to call the shots? It just doesn't work that way.

On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 22:58:02 -0600, wrote:

On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 18:28:18 -0700, Canuck57 wrote:

Here is a solution for GM that will work.

Each and every employee of GM is to buy stock in the company. Proceeds
will be used to fund GM financial needs.

Workers owning the company? Isn't that communism?

The company logo of the Chicago&Northwestern railroad said "Employee
Owned" I always figure they had raided the pension fund.

Casady

On Nov 18, 1:27*pm, (Richard Casady)
wrote:
On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 22:58:02 -0600, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 18:28:18 -0700, Canuck57 wrote:

Here is a solution for GM that will work.

Each and every employee of GM is to buy stock in the company. *Proceeds
will be used to fund GM financial needs.

Workers owning the company? *Isn't that communism? *

The company logo of the Chicago&Northwestern railroad said "Employee
Owned" I always figure they had raided the pension fund.

Casady

Screw the unions.. My wife just called from Motor Vehicle in Enfield.
They have been on a work slow down for a couple of years now. I was in
Old Saybrook this morning, they moved 15 people in front of me in
about 12 minutes with three to four windows. As usual, my wife just
called me from Enfield and they have moved 10 people in 1 hour, with 4
- 5 windows but says they are taking breaks after every person...
Bull****, they aren't worth 10 cents an hour...

On Nov 18, 1:38*pm, wrote:
On Nov 18, 1:27*pm, (Richard Casady)
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 22:58:02 -0600, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 18:28:18 -0700, Canuck57 wrote:

Here is a solution for GM that will work.

Each and every employee of GM is to buy stock in the company. *Proceeds
will be used to fund GM financial needs.

Workers owning the company? *Isn't that communism? *

The company logo of the Chicago&Northwestern railroad said "Employee
Owned" I always figure they had raided the pension fund.

Casady

Screw the unions.. My wife just called from Motor Vehicle in Enfield.
They have been on a work slow down for a couple of years now. I was in
Old Saybrook this morning, they moved 15 people in front of me in
about 12 minutes with three to four windows. As usual, my wife just
called me from Enfield and they have moved 10 people in 1 hour, with 4
- 5 windows but says they are taking breaks after every person...
Bull****, they aren't worth 10 cents an hour...

This is nuts.. Just like the last time I was in there. Most MV's in
the state can move folks through a typical re-registration in less
than 5 minutes.. In Enfield, the average the last two times, and today
is 20 minutes per person in line. The typical re-registration consists
of filling in 6 boxes on a form, and paying the person behind the
counter.. Those people aren't worth crap... Let the Unions rot, make
them all work or go home...

"Canuck57" wrote in message
...
Here is a solution for GM that will work.

Each and every employee of GM is to buy stock in the company. Proceeds
will be used to fund GM financial needs.

Employees must own shares to work at GM. The amount is determined by
their compensation. They must own at least 20% of their annual
compensation in common shares of GM. If you are new, you must buy 5% of
your anticipate income immediately or you cannot be hired.

Managers need to own at least 25% minimum.

Executives must own the equivalent of last years total compensation or
more. This also applies to board members. Board members and executive not
owning at least 50% today are to be discharged unless they correct the
issue in 20 days or less.

Shares already owned count so you don't have to buy more if you already
have them. You may own them any way you wish, but must control the
percentage of shares required.

If you don't have them then 15% of your wage/salary goes towards share
purchases until topped up to the minimum for your job and pay scale. If
you are an executive or manager, that amount increases to 25%. Shares
will be accumulated at the months lowest daily average minus 5%. You are
not allowed to sell shares below your percentage or those not vested for 3
years.

Shares will be initially issued by GM, later if solvent they will be
purchased off the market but for now new issues to raise cash. The cash
will be used to finance the company. No need to rip or beg from taxpayers
like beggars and thieves. Plus, you get to own the company and vote for
your choice of the CEO!

Solves a lot of problems for everyone.

CAW/UAW, put your money where your mouth is!
=======================

How about all executive bonuses being only in the form of ten year deferred
stock? This would make them plan 10 years ahead instead of just as far as
their quarterly or yearly bonus. If the company goes bankrupt before the
ten years, then they lose.
Just as pure democracy can have its drawbacks, pure capitalism can too.
-lm

"Chom Noamsky" wrote in message
news:AJDUk.1538$o15.781@edtnps83...
"Canuck57" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
t...
On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 18:28:18 -0700, Canuck57 wrote:

Here is a solution for GM that will work.

Each and every employee of GM is to buy stock in the company. Proceeds
will be used to fund GM financial needs.

Workers owning the company? Isn't that communism?

Nope. Not at all. Some very successful companies have many employees
financially involved it its well being. Which is precisely GMs problem,
making them shareholders diffuses 30 years of union rant.

That's fine if the financial involvement is voluntary. Mandatory
investment by workers is essentially socializing ownership - the same
principles as Marxism.

100% employee-owned businesses generally do well. That is because as
owners, if they want to exploit and mismanage the company, they are only
exploiting and mismanaging themselves. There is a direct realtionship for
financial reward, such as performing well, rather than getting rewarded
whether the company is failing or succeeding (the norm for today's
executives).

However, even if employees flocked together to buy some of GM, as a class
they would still be in a minority position. Why would anyone allow a
minority shareholder to call the shots? It just doesn't work that way.

Limp excuses. I guess then CAW doesn't want the jobs.

The government is just starting to realize how many people are being laid
off from other than CAW (Canadian Auto ******) as they get this from EI
registration. They have the civil service white as a sheet. I even know of
a company you least expect preparing year end severances for thousands. We
actually might clock the year out at better than 10% unemployed if GM keeps
working! Even government revenue is plummeting. Yes, the government is
worried for their own CUPE asses!!

Now the amount of money to bail out a GM employee is really about $2 million
dollars each with wages, debt, liabilities and pensions etc. EI is maybe
$15k, you do the math. GM is really to a point where they have to go down.
Even the US government where a trillion is trivial is touching this turkey.

Who do you think is going to win, CUPE or CAW??

LOL. Going to be fun to watch. Investors will not be paying taxes this
year. Most companies will not. With spending halted (GST/excise) and
gasoline down, unemployment skyrocking with income taxes collected
plummeting....

Bet the government is in about a 30 billion a year shortfall in burn rate
right now if it was annualized. The CN Tower isn't for sale because this is
a good time to sell. And even Ottawa can't get credit. LOL.