On Jan 5, 2:10*pm, John H wrote:
On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:36:43 GMT, (Richard





Casady) wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:52:30 -0500, HK wrote:

Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 08:43:17 -0500, John H
wrote:

The bimini top on my Key West uses a mounting like this"

http://tinyurl.com/9ozwsy

This bracket allows the frame member mounted therein to rotate from front
to back without placing undue stress on the mounting screws. Note, I said
screws, not through bolts.

However when underway, even slowly, or just at anchor with a small amount
of ripple in the water, the bimini top sways from side to side. The side to
side motion gets transmitted directly to the screws in the brackets, and
causes them to loosen. I'm sure it's just a matter of time before they
strip or worse.

I'm wondering if there aren't some fittings made that would have a ball
socket or some such to allow complete forward and back movement *and* some
degree of lateral movement.

Anyone know of such a thing? Help!

The only way you are going to stop it is to make the stainless tubing
fairly rigid - it's not so much the movement in the mount as it is the
length of the tubing that is causing your problem. *And the only way
to stop that is to use heavier wall tubing - it's the wall flex that's
the problem, not the mount. *Cheap T-tops have the same problem - not
enough wall strength in the tubes to make it rigid so they cross brace
the hell out of them. *Even in custom made, heavy T-tops like mine
move without cross bracing.

This T-top is very similar to mine - mine is a little taller, made
from thicker tubing and is a slightly different design, but the point
is that it's cross braced to keep the sway down.

http://www.rangerboats.com/flash/gal...id=5511&gid=38

This is mine.

http://www.swsports.org/images/Pictu...g%20Boat02.jpg

With your current setup, the only way to make it stop is to cross
brace the tubing with some sort of cording - maybe bungee cord or
similar.

What I would do is brace the cornors of the top where the tubing
bends. *You might be able to do it with bungee cord, but that defeats
the purpose - it would cut down on the sway though.

--

"An idealist is one who, on noticing that
a rose smells better than a cabbage, concludes
that it will also make better soup."

H.L. Mencken

Buy a better top with heavier tubes and connectors.

I would take that advice myself, but this is Iowa, and good dealers
are scarce, to say the least. Aluminum boats last forever in fresh
water, and mine was built in 79. Good luck finding anything made
specifically for it. Custom made mail order is about it. Maybe I will
take it down the Mississippi and search the ICW for marine canvas
shops.

Casady

I've no idea where the 'buy a better top with heavier tubes, etc.' comes
from. The problem was in the swaying of the existing top and the stress put
on the mounting brackets. A heavier top would simply increase the torque on
the bracket.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Did you find out if you can access enough to get a through the hull
bolt? If not, could you add a plate to the top of the gunnel to spread
out weight?

On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:10:53 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Jan 5, 2:10*pm, John H wrote:
On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:36:43 GMT, (Richard





Casady) wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:52:30 -0500, HK wrote:

Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 08:43:17 -0500, John H
wrote:

The bimini top on my Key West uses a mounting like this"

http://tinyurl.com/9ozwsy

This bracket allows the frame member mounted therein to rotate from front
to back without placing undue stress on the mounting screws. Note, I said
screws, not through bolts.

However when underway, even slowly, or just at anchor with a small amount
of ripple in the water, the bimini top sways from side to side. The side to
side motion gets transmitted directly to the screws in the brackets, and
causes them to loosen. I'm sure it's just a matter of time before they
strip or worse.

I'm wondering if there aren't some fittings made that would have a ball
socket or some such to allow complete forward and back movement *and* some
degree of lateral movement.

Anyone know of such a thing? Help!

The only way you are going to stop it is to make the stainless tubing
fairly rigid - it's not so much the movement in the mount as it is the
length of the tubing that is causing your problem. *And the only way
to stop that is to use heavier wall tubing - it's the wall flex that's
the problem, not the mount. *Cheap T-tops have the same problem - not
enough wall strength in the tubes to make it rigid so they cross brace
the hell out of them. *Even in custom made, heavy T-tops like mine
move without cross bracing.

This T-top is very similar to mine - mine is a little taller, made
from thicker tubing and is a slightly different design, but the point
is that it's cross braced to keep the sway down.

http://www.rangerboats.com/flash/gal...id=5511&gid=38

This is mine.

http://www.swsports.org/images/Pictu...g%20Boat02.jpg

With your current setup, the only way to make it stop is to cross
brace the tubing with some sort of cording - maybe bungee cord or
similar.

What I would do is brace the cornors of the top where the tubing
bends. *You might be able to do it with bungee cord, but that defeats
the purpose - it would cut down on the sway though.

--

"An idealist is one who, on noticing that
a rose smells better than a cabbage, concludes
that it will also make better soup."

H.L. Mencken

Buy a better top with heavier tubes and connectors.

I would take that advice myself, but this is Iowa, and good dealers
are scarce, to say the least. Aluminum boats last forever in fresh
water, and mine was built in 79. Good luck finding anything made
specifically for it. Custom made mail order is about it. Maybe I will
take it down the Mississippi and search the ICW for marine canvas
shops.

Casady

I've no idea where the 'buy a better top with heavier tubes, etc.' comes
from. The problem was in the swaying of the existing top and the stress put
on the mounting brackets. A heavier top would simply increase the torque on
the bracket.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Did you find out if you can access enough to get a through the hull
bolt? If not, could you add a plate to the top of the gunnel to spread
out weight?

It depends on how the rod holders are fabricated. It looks like they're
just held in place with about a dozen screws in the fiberglass behind them.
If I can get them out, then I think I can reach the holes where the
brackets are mounted. If I can get to them, I'll put a plate under each
bracket and through-bolt them. This is another reason not to let the wife
in on the boat-buying process!

John H wrote:
On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:36:43 GMT, (Richard
Casady) wrote:

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:52:30 -0500, HK wrote:

Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 08:43:17 -0500, John H
wrote:

The bimini top on my Key West uses a mounting like this"

http://tinyurl.com/9ozwsy

This bracket allows the frame member mounted therein to rotate from front
to back without placing undue stress on the mounting screws. Note, I said
screws, not through bolts.

However when underway, even slowly, or just at anchor with a small amount
of ripple in the water, the bimini top sways from side to side. The side to
side motion gets transmitted directly to the screws in the brackets, and
causes them to loosen. I'm sure it's just a matter of time before they
strip or worse.

I'm wondering if there aren't some fittings made that would have a ball
socket or some such to allow complete forward and back movement *and* some
degree of lateral movement.

Anyone know of such a thing? Help!
The only way you are going to stop it is to make the stainless tubing
fairly rigid - it's not so much the movement in the mount as it is the
length of the tubing that is causing your problem. And the only way
to stop that is to use heavier wall tubing - it's the wall flex that's
the problem, not the mount. Cheap T-tops have the same problem - not
enough wall strength in the tubes to make it rigid so they cross brace
the hell out of them. Even in custom made, heavy T-tops like mine
move without cross bracing.

This T-top is very similar to mine - mine is a little taller, made
from thicker tubing and is a slightly different design, but the point
is that it's cross braced to keep the sway down.

http://www.rangerboats.com/flash/gal...id=5511&gid=38

This is mine.

http://www.swsports.org/images/Pictu...g%20Boat02.jpg

With your current setup, the only way to make it stop is to cross
brace the tubing with some sort of cording - maybe bungee cord or
similar.

What I would do is brace the cornors of the top where the tubing
bends. You might be able to do it with bungee cord, but that defeats
the purpose - it would cut down on the sway though.

--

"An idealist is one who, on noticing that
a rose smells better than a cabbage, concludes
that it will also make better soup."

H.L. Mencken

Buy a better top with heavier tubes and connectors.
I would take that advice myself, but this is Iowa, and good dealers
are scarce, to say the least. Aluminum boats last forever in fresh
water, and mine was built in 79. Good luck finding anything made
specifically for it. Custom made mail order is about it. Maybe I will
take it down the Mississippi and search the ICW for marine canvas
shops.

Casady

I've no idea where the 'buy a better top with heavier tubes, etc.' comes
from. The problem was in the swaying of the existing top and the stress put
on the mounting brackets. A heavier top would simply increase the torque on
the bracket.

A narcissistic idiot wrote that. Ignore it and move forward.

Richard Casady wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:52:30 -0500, HK wrote:

Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 08:43:17 -0500, John H
wrote:

The bimini top on my Key West uses a mounting like this"

http://tinyurl.com/9ozwsy

This bracket allows the frame member mounted therein to rotate from front
to back without placing undue stress on the mounting screws. Note, I said
screws, not through bolts.

However when underway, even slowly, or just at anchor with a small amount
of ripple in the water, the bimini top sways from side to side. The side to
side motion gets transmitted directly to the screws in the brackets, and
causes them to loosen. I'm sure it's just a matter of time before they
strip or worse.

I'm wondering if there aren't some fittings made that would have a ball
socket or some such to allow complete forward and back movement *and* some
degree of lateral movement.

Anyone know of such a thing? Help!
The only way you are going to stop it is to make the stainless tubing
fairly rigid - it's not so much the movement in the mount as it is the
length of the tubing that is causing your problem. And the only way
to stop that is to use heavier wall tubing - it's the wall flex that's
the problem, not the mount. Cheap T-tops have the same problem - not
enough wall strength in the tubes to make it rigid so they cross brace
the hell out of them. Even in custom made, heavy T-tops like mine
move without cross bracing.

This T-top is very similar to mine - mine is a little taller, made
from thicker tubing and is a slightly different design, but the point
is that it's cross braced to keep the sway down.

http://www.rangerboats.com/flash/gal...id=5511&gid=38

This is mine.

http://www.swsports.org/images/Pictu...g%20Boat02.jpg

With your current setup, the only way to make it stop is to cross
brace the tubing with some sort of cording - maybe bungee cord or
similar.

What I would do is brace the cornors of the top where the tubing
bends. You might be able to do it with bungee cord, but that defeats
the purpose - it would cut down on the sway though.

--

"An idealist is one who, on noticing that
a rose smells better than a cabbage, concludes
that it will also make better soup."

H.L. Mencken

Buy a better top with heavier tubes and connectors.

I would take that advice myself, but this is Iowa, and good dealers
are scarce, to say the least. Aluminum boats last forever in fresh
water, and mine was built in 79. Good luck finding anything made
specifically for it. Custom made mail order is about it. Maybe I will
take it down the Mississippi and search the ICW for marine canvas
shops.

Casady



Well, the tubes and mounting hardware on my Parker's bimini are heavy
duty stainess steel. In fact, the mounting bracket is a heavy duty slide
through-bolted to the gunnel tops. One on each side. The only other
attachments are for the straps. If it sways, the sway is imperceptible.

Looks like this:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...s/IMG_0416.jpg


It's the factory bimini. I suspect some boat manufacturers spec tops
more suitable for boats that'll be run on small inland lakes.

On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 20:54:26 -0500, D K wrote:

John H wrote:
On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:36:43 GMT, (Richard
Casady) wrote:

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:52:30 -0500, HK wrote:

Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 08:43:17 -0500, John H
wrote:

The bimini top on my Key West uses a mounting like this"

http://tinyurl.com/9ozwsy

This bracket allows the frame member mounted therein to rotate from front
to back without placing undue stress on the mounting screws. Note, I said
screws, not through bolts.

However when underway, even slowly, or just at anchor with a small amount
of ripple in the water, the bimini top sways from side to side. The side to
side motion gets transmitted directly to the screws in the brackets, and
causes them to loosen. I'm sure it's just a matter of time before they
strip or worse.

I'm wondering if there aren't some fittings made that would have a ball
socket or some such to allow complete forward and back movement *and* some
degree of lateral movement.

Anyone know of such a thing? Help!
The only way you are going to stop it is to make the stainless tubing
fairly rigid - it's not so much the movement in the mount as it is the
length of the tubing that is causing your problem. And the only way
to stop that is to use heavier wall tubing - it's the wall flex that's
the problem, not the mount. Cheap T-tops have the same problem - not
enough wall strength in the tubes to make it rigid so they cross brace
the hell out of them. Even in custom made, heavy T-tops like mine
move without cross bracing.

This T-top is very similar to mine - mine is a little taller, made
from thicker tubing and is a slightly different design, but the point
is that it's cross braced to keep the sway down.

http://www.rangerboats.com/flash/gal...id=5511&gid=38

This is mine.

http://www.swsports.org/images/Pictu...g%20Boat02.jpg

With your current setup, the only way to make it stop is to cross
brace the tubing with some sort of cording - maybe bungee cord or
similar.

What I would do is brace the cornors of the top where the tubing
bends. You might be able to do it with bungee cord, but that defeats
the purpose - it would cut down on the sway though.

--

"An idealist is one who, on noticing that
a rose smells better than a cabbage, concludes
that it will also make better soup."

H.L. Mencken

Buy a better top with heavier tubes and connectors.
I would take that advice myself, but this is Iowa, and good dealers
are scarce, to say the least. Aluminum boats last forever in fresh
water, and mine was built in 79. Good luck finding anything made
specifically for it. Custom made mail order is about it. Maybe I will
take it down the Mississippi and search the ICW for marine canvas
shops.

Casady

I've no idea where the 'buy a better top with heavier tubes, etc.' comes
from. The problem was in the swaying of the existing top and the stress put
on the mounting brackets. A heavier top would simply increase the torque on
the bracket.

A narcissistic idiot wrote that. Ignore it and move forward.

On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 20:54:26 -0500, D K wrote:

John H wrote:
On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:36:43 GMT, (Richard
Casady) wrote:

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:52:30 -0500, HK wrote:

Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 08:43:17 -0500, John H
wrote:

The bimini top on my Key West uses a mounting like this"

http://tinyurl.com/9ozwsy

This bracket allows the frame member mounted therein to rotate from front
to back without placing undue stress on the mounting screws. Note, I said
screws, not through bolts.

However when underway, even slowly, or just at anchor with a small amount
of ripple in the water, the bimini top sways from side to side. The side to
side motion gets transmitted directly to the screws in the brackets, and
causes them to loosen. I'm sure it's just a matter of time before they
strip or worse.

I'm wondering if there aren't some fittings made that would have a ball
socket or some such to allow complete forward and back movement *and* some
degree of lateral movement.

Anyone know of such a thing? Help!
The only way you are going to stop it is to make the stainless tubing
fairly rigid - it's not so much the movement in the mount as it is the
length of the tubing that is causing your problem. And the only way
to stop that is to use heavier wall tubing - it's the wall flex that's
the problem, not the mount. Cheap T-tops have the same problem - not
enough wall strength in the tubes to make it rigid so they cross brace
the hell out of them. Even in custom made, heavy T-tops like mine
move without cross bracing.

This T-top is very similar to mine - mine is a little taller, made
from thicker tubing and is a slightly different design, but the point
is that it's cross braced to keep the sway down.

http://www.rangerboats.com/flash/gal...id=5511&gid=38

This is mine.

http://www.swsports.org/images/Pictu...g%20Boat02.jpg

With your current setup, the only way to make it stop is to cross
brace the tubing with some sort of cording - maybe bungee cord or
similar.

What I would do is brace the cornors of the top where the tubing
bends. You might be able to do it with bungee cord, but that defeats
the purpose - it would cut down on the sway though.

--

"An idealist is one who, on noticing that
a rose smells better than a cabbage, concludes
that it will also make better soup."

H.L. Mencken

Buy a better top with heavier tubes and connectors.
I would take that advice myself, but this is Iowa, and good dealers
are scarce, to say the least. Aluminum boats last forever in fresh
water, and mine was built in 79. Good luck finding anything made
specifically for it. Custom made mail order is about it. Maybe I will
take it down the Mississippi and search the ICW for marine canvas
shops.

Casady

I've no idea where the 'buy a better top with heavier tubes, etc.' comes
from. The problem was in the swaying of the existing top and the stress put
on the mounting brackets. A heavier top would simply increase the torque on
the bracket.

A narcissistic idiot wrote that. Ignore it and move forward.

What's strange is Harry's idea that the Parker frame is heavier than the
Key West frame, which is horse manure. Both Key West and Parker use 316
Stainless Steel, 7/8" diameter frames. The Key West frome is mounted in
four places, as it's a bigger bimini than that on Harry's boat. In looking
at Harry's picture, I was surprised at how small that bimini was.

On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 19:25:38 -0500, John H
wrote:

The screws worked themselves loose already. I just worry anytime wood type
screws are used in fiberglass - for anything.

You know what you might want to try - rebedding them using 3M 5200.

That stuff is really strong and with some good stainless screws with
an agressive thread, that thing should hold forever.

Hell - the T-top on my Ranger was set in place with that stuff before
they sunk the screws. I could hang from it before it was secured - no
joke. :)

On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 19:35:06 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"John H" wrote in message
.. .


I don't leave the bimini up if I'm going more than 'no wake' speed. But,
often the boat rocks at anchor or even when going slow, if the wind is
strong enough.

You've talked me out of the 'ball and socket' arrangement I was thinking
of. I'll try through bolting after getting the rod holders out. If that
doesn't work, bungee cords will have to do.

If you want to mount something that will be strong on a boat, there's no
good substitute for through bolts and backing plates to distribute the
stresses. Often, like in your situation, there is no access to the
underside of the surface you want to mount something. One option, (and I
am not encouraging you to do this for a bimini ... it's just something to
keep in mind) is to install an access or "deck" plate in a vertical surface
near the place that you need to get behind for the addition of a backing
plate and the bolts/nuts. Access or deck plates are available at marine
stores like West Marine and come in several sizes. It's similar to
installing a speaker. You use a large hole saw or a jig saw to cut out the
proper sized hole for the access plate, then install the flange. The
removable plate screws into the flange. When you need to get behind a
surface within arm's reach, you simply unscrew and remove the access plate,
install your device's backing plate and through bolts, then put the access
plate back in place.

They look like this:

http://images.westmarine.com/full/4581658.jpg

Eisboch

Thanki. If I can't get to the brackets once I remove the rod holders, I may
have to consider something like that. Wouldn't be hard to do.

On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:15:37 -0500, John H
wrote:

On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 19:35:06 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"John H" wrote in message
. ..


I don't leave the bimini up if I'm going more than 'no wake' speed. But,
often the boat rocks at anchor or even when going slow, if the wind is
strong enough.

You've talked me out of the 'ball and socket' arrangement I was thinking
of. I'll try through bolting after getting the rod holders out. If that
doesn't work, bungee cords will have to do.

If you want to mount something that will be strong on a boat, there's no
good substitute for through bolts and backing plates to distribute the
stresses. Often, like in your situation, there is no access to the
underside of the surface you want to mount something. One option, (and I
am not encouraging you to do this for a bimini ... it's just something to
keep in mind) is to install an access or "deck" plate in a vertical surface
near the place that you need to get behind for the addition of a backing
plate and the bolts/nuts. Access or deck plates are available at marine
stores like West Marine and come in several sizes. It's similar to
installing a speaker. You use a large hole saw or a jig saw to cut out the
proper sized hole for the access plate, then install the flange. The
removable plate screws into the flange. When you need to get behind a
surface within arm's reach, you simply unscrew and remove the access plate,
install your device's backing plate and through bolts, then put the access
plate back in place.

They look like this:

http://images.westmarine.com/full/4581658.jpg

Eisboch

Thanki. If I can't get to the brackets once I remove the rod holders, I may
have to consider something like that. Wouldn't be hard to do.

It might be if your Key West is foam filled like my Ranger is.

Trust me - that ain't an easy job - I did it to put backing plates in
for the down riggers - it wasn't fun.

John H wrote:
On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 14:32:47 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Jan 6, 12:17 pm, John H wrote:
On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 20:54:26 -0500, D K wrote:
John H wrote:
On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:36:43 GMT, (Richard
Casady) wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:52:30 -0500, HK wrote:
Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 08:43:17 -0500, John H
wrote:
The bimini top on my Key West uses a mounting like this"
http://tinyurl.com/9ozwsy
This bracket allows the frame member mounted therein to rotate from front
to back without placing undue stress on the mounting screws. Note, I said
screws, not through bolts.
However when underway, even slowly, or just at anchor with a small amount
of ripple in the water, the bimini top sways from side to side. The side to
side motion gets transmitted directly to the screws in the brackets, and
causes them to loosen. I'm sure it's just a matter of time before they
strip or worse.
I'm wondering if there aren't some fittings made that would have a ball
socket or some such to allow complete forward and back movement *and* some
degree of lateral movement.
Anyone know of such a thing? Help!
The only way you are going to stop it is to make the stainless tubing
fairly rigid - it's not so much the movement in the mount as it is the
length of the tubing that is causing your problem. And the only way
to stop that is to use heavier wall tubing - it's the wall flex that's
the problem, not the mount. Cheap T-tops have the same problem - not
enough wall strength in the tubes to make it rigid so they cross brace
the hell out of them. Even in custom made, heavy T-tops like mine
move without cross bracing.
This T-top is very similar to mine - mine is a little taller, made
from thicker tubing and is a slightly different design, but the point
is that it's cross braced to keep the sway down.
http://www.rangerboats.com/flash/gal...id=5511&gid=38
This is mine.
http://www.swsports.org/images/Pictu...g%20Boat02.jpg
With your current setup, the only way to make it stop is to cross
brace the tubing with some sort of cording - maybe bungee cord or
similar.
What I would do is brace the cornors of the top where the tubing
bends. You might be able to do it with bungee cord, but that defeats
the purpose - it would cut down on the sway though.
--
"An idealist is one who, on noticing that
a rose smells better than a cabbage, concludes
that it will also make better soup."
H.L. Mencken
Buy a better top with heavier tubes and connectors.
I would take that advice myself, but this is Iowa, and good dealers
are scarce, to say the least. Aluminum boats last forever in fresh
water, and mine was built in 79. Good luck finding anything made
specifically for it. Custom made mail order is about it. Maybe I will
take it down the Mississippi and search the ICW for marine canvas
shops.
Casady
I've no idea where the 'buy a better top with heavier tubes, etc.' comes
from. The problem was in the swaying of the existing top and the stress put
on the mounting brackets. A heavier top would simply increase the torque on
the bracket.
A narcissistic idiot wrote that. Ignore it and move forward.
What's strange is Harry's idea that the Parker frame is heavier than the
Key West frame, which is horse manure. Both Key West and Parker use 316
Stainless Steel, 7/8" diameter frames. The Key West frome is mounted in
four places, as it's a bigger bimini than that on Harry's boat. In looking
at Harry's picture, I was surprised at how small that bimini was.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Mayeb you're worrying about a problem that doesn't exist. Biminis
have been made this way for years. Practically all the ones I've seen
just have wood style screws going into the fiberglass. No bolts, no
backing plates. Can't say I've ever seen one that was torn out unless
the owner ran the bimini into something. Mine is built and installed
that way and I've had it for 13 years. I ran it into the garage door
once after forgetting to put it down and it mangled the tubes up but
did nothing to the mounts.

The screws worked themselves loose already. I just worry anytime wood type
screws are used in fiberglass - for anything.

I'll try the bungee cord trick, and see if I can get my arm inside the
gunwale far enough to reach and through-bolt the brackets.



Set the screws in some 3M 5200 if you can't get access for a backing plate.