"Corny Collins from Baltimore" wrote in message
s.com...

Wouldn't it be funny if they all came back and kicked ass? Wouldnt it be
funny if the japanese companies quality continues to slip?

Somehow I think you are dreaming. The problems in D3 have been going on for
more than 30 years, they don't even have people union or non-union that have
worked in a profitable business. The culture itself is bankrupt.

"Gosi" wrote in message
...
On Jan 14, 3:42 pm, "HLS" wrote:
"Gosi" wrote in message news:2fa2af35-586b-46fd-a861-

It is impossible to wake up the dead
**********
Not impossible, but somewhat rare. A lot of corporations are so set in
their ways,
from top to bottom, that change can be all but impossible.

And, I think we are talking about significant change in these industries.
They
apparently cant continue to do "business as usual" and expect to prosper
in
the markets we are seeing just at this moment.

If their cars are ultimately desirable (which they havent been in later
years) and
if the market exists which will pay for value received, then it is smooth
sailing.

The Big 3 seemed to be just holding even (actually losing some money)
because
of their expense overhead, losing market share, and finally crushed by the
sudden
unpopularity of their profitable SUVs and pickups.

It will be a challenge.

If you could get considerable changes in the superstructure of GM it
might be possible to get it out of come.

Problem is of course the management culture of arrogance and
reluctance to face realities.

It will definitely not be possible with the current assholes at the
top.

It is really painful to know that there is a hell of a lot of
competence in the company that could be released and allowed to create
quality.

I am sure that after GM will be closed down that a lot of new good
companies will be built up.

It is a grave mistake to let this process go on and on to let
everything just stay in Limbo.

In a way it is a great study of how not to manage business.
========
What will happen is if GM enters chapter 11 then creditors, management and
unions get one more final chance, they have to come up with a 100% viable no
bull**** plan to get the company back on track. Tricks and lies pulled of
in the past will not work. If the union or management dilly dally, posture,
strike, whine, passive aggression, lack of good faith could all get to in
front of a judge or chapter 7.

Chapter 7 is GM to be auctioned off minus all the baggage, which incluses
all assets including brand, plants, parts, design rights, intelectual
property. It may be bought in whole or part for what ever generates the
most money. A privite equity form will probably pick it up and create GM
(New) and do quite well. In chapter 7, the unions and management are in
essense fired. So you can leave all the disfunctional baggage behind which
makes what left to be a valuable asset.

Agreed, Harvard/Yale types shoudl study GM's corporate culture for how not
to run a business.

"HLS" wrote in message
...

"C. E. White" wrote in message
...
Lot of total BS in that letter you seem to like. I think it was written
by a bitter overpaid salesman that failed at his job.

Assembly plants are routinely ranked on productivity by outside auditors.
GM and Ford plants often do better than US Toyota and Nissan Plants.
Unions have certainly gone to excess in some cases, but without unions
(or at least the threat of unions), how do you think GM, Ford, Toyota and
Nissan would treat their workers? I wonder how well Mr. Know treats
his...

It has been awhile, but I still recall the reports on how Toyota treats
it suppliers in Japan. I am not talking about the happy Toyota workers at
the Toyota assembly plants. I am talking about the harassed brow beaten
pennies a day worker at Toyota's suppliers.I'll bet Mr. Know would love
that model. Maybe when he get his wish and the "Big Three" go under, and
his only significant Customer is Japan Inc, he'll enjoy the experience.

Ed

This has little to do with it, as I see it, Ed.

These companies have to be successful financially, like any other
company,.
Their luck may have run bad, but their leadership and elaboration of their
activities has been poor.

They have been given a second shot at life, courtesy of the US taxpayers.

They need to step up to the plate, or leave the field.

Yep, a second shot from US and Canadian tax payers. Hope they don't waste
it but after 30+ of dysfunction my guess is they have neither the culture or
leadership to take advantage of it. But, if they took it seriously they
might make it work. Both the management and union need to get real, tough,
lean, mean and really really want it as lip service BS isn't going to carry
the day any longer.

"Canuck57" wrote in message
...

"HLS" wrote in message
...

"C. E. White" wrote in message
...
Lot of total BS in that letter you seem to like. I think it was written
by a bitter overpaid salesman that failed at his job.

Assembly plants are routinely ranked on productivity by outside
auditors. GM and Ford plants often do better than US Toyota and Nissan
Plants. Unions have certainly gone to excess in some cases, but without
unions (or at least the threat of unions), how do you think GM, Ford,
Toyota and Nissan would treat their workers? I wonder how well Mr. Know
treats his...

It has been awhile, but I still recall the reports on how Toyota treats
it suppliers in Japan. I am not talking about the happy Toyota workers
at the Toyota assembly plants. I am talking about the harassed brow
beaten pennies a day worker at Toyota's suppliers.I'll bet Mr. Know
would love that model. Maybe when he get his wish and the "Big Three" go
under, and his only significant Customer is Japan Inc, he'll enjoy the
experience.

Ed

This has little to do with it, as I see it, Ed.

These companies have to be successful financially, like any other
company,.
Their luck may have run bad, but their leadership and elaboration of
their
activities has been poor.

They have been given a second shot at life, courtesy of the US taxpayers.

They need to step up to the plate, or leave the field.

Yep, a second shot from US and Canadian tax payers. Hope they don't waste
it but after 30+ of dysfunction my guess is they have neither the culture
or leadership to take advantage of it. But, if they took it seriously
they might make it work. Both the management and union need to get real,
tough, lean, mean and really really want it as lip service BS isn't going
to carry the day any longer.

You do realize that GM has not taken one cent from the Canadian government
yet, right?

"80 Knight" nospam wrote in message
...
"Canuck57" wrote in message
...

"HLS" wrote in message
...

"C. E. White" wrote in message
...
Lot of total BS in that letter you seem to like. I think it was written
by a bitter overpaid salesman that failed at his job.

Assembly plants are routinely ranked on productivity by outside
auditors. GM and Ford plants often do better than US Toyota and Nissan
Plants. Unions have certainly gone to excess in some cases, but without
unions (or at least the threat of unions), how do you think GM, Ford,
Toyota and Nissan would treat their workers? I wonder how well Mr. Know
treats his...

It has been awhile, but I still recall the reports on how Toyota treats
it suppliers in Japan. I am not talking about the happy Toyota workers
at the Toyota assembly plants. I am talking about the harassed brow
beaten pennies a day worker at Toyota's suppliers.I'll bet Mr. Know
would love that model. Maybe when he get his wish and the "Big Three"
go under, and his only significant Customer is Japan Inc, he'll enjoy
the experience.

Ed

This has little to do with it, as I see it, Ed.

These companies have to be successful financially, like any other
company,.
Their luck may have run bad, but their leadership and elaboration of
their
activities has been poor.

They have been given a second shot at life, courtesy of the US
taxpayers.

They need to step up to the plate, or leave the field.

Yep, a second shot from US and Canadian tax payers. Hope they don't
waste it but after 30+ of dysfunction my guess is they have neither the
culture or leadership to take advantage of it. But, if they took it
seriously they might make it work. Both the management and union need to
get real, tough, lean, mean and really really want it as lip service BS
isn't going to carry the day any longer.

You do realize that GM has not taken one cent from the Canadian government
yet, right?


Not sure, but they might not have gotten it all yet. But the $4-5B in money
is allocated and as good as gone. $760M has already been flushed outright.
I think it has some condition with the union... like no-strike then woosh
down the toilet it goes. Well, if your sitting on your ass for 95% pay at
home for Christmas and January that is very expensive tax payer subsidy.

On Jan 15, 1:55*pm, "Canuck57" wrote:
"80 Knight" nospam wrote in message

...





"Canuck57" wrote in message
...

"HLS" wrote in message
.. .

"C. E. White" wrote in message
...
Lot of total BS in that letter you seem to like. I think it was written
by a bitter overpaid salesman that failed at his job.

Assembly plants are routinely ranked on productivity by outside
auditors. GM and Ford plants often do better than US Toyota and Nissan
Plants. Unions have certainly gone to excess in some cases, but without
unions (or at least the threat of unions), how do you think GM, Ford,
Toyota and Nissan would treat their workers? I wonder how well Mr. Know
treats his...

It has been awhile, but I still recall the reports on how Toyota treats
it suppliers in Japan. I am not talking about the happy Toyota workers
at the Toyota assembly plants. I am talking about the harassed brow
beaten pennies a day worker at Toyota's suppliers.I'll bet Mr. Know
would love that model. Maybe when he get his wish and the "Big Three"
go under, and his only significant Customer is Japan Inc, he'll enjoy
the experience.

Ed

This has little to do with it, as I see it, Ed.

These companies have to be successful financially, like any other
company,.
Their luck may have run bad, but their leadership and elaboration of
their
activities has been poor.

They have been given a second shot at life, courtesy of the US
taxpayers.

They need to step up to the plate, or leave the field.

Yep, a second shot from US and Canadian tax payers. *Hope they don't
waste it but after 30+ of dysfunction my guess is they have neither the
culture or leadership to take advantage of it. *But, if they took it
seriously they might make it work. *Both the management and union need to
get real, tough, lean, mean and really really want it as lip service BS
isn't going to carry the day any longer.

You do realize that GM has not taken one cent from the Canadian government
yet, right?

Not sure, but they might not have gotten it all yet. *But the $4-5B in money
is allocated and as good as gone. *$760M has already been flushed outright.
I think it has some condition with the union... like no-strike then woosh
down the toilet it goes. *Well, if your sitting on your ass for 95% pay at
home for Christmas and January that is very expensive tax payer subsidy.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Subsidized vacation... They should have given the money to the tax
payers to buy cars.. That would have gotten the money to the companies
and cleared their lots, the down side is the Union would have had to
stay at work and build cars instead of going on retreats and playing
monopoly in the break room..

wrote:


Subsidized vacation... They should have given the money to the tax
payers to buy cars.. That would have gotten the money to the companies
and cleared their lots, the down side is the Union would have had to
stay at work and build cars instead of going on retreats and playing
monopoly in the break room..


Why are you still here? We thought you started up a discussion board for
Right Wing Retardos?

Herring will love your crossposting...

wrote in message
...
On Jan 15, 1:55 pm, "Canuck57" wrote:
"80 Knight" nospam wrote in message

...





"Canuck57" wrote in message
...

"HLS" wrote in message
.. .

"C. E. White" wrote in message
...
Lot of total BS in that letter you seem to like. I think it was
written
by a bitter overpaid salesman that failed at his job.

Assembly plants are routinely ranked on productivity by outside
auditors. GM and Ford plants often do better than US Toyota and
Nissan
Plants. Unions have certainly gone to excess in some cases, but
without
unions (or at least the threat of unions), how do you think GM, Ford,
Toyota and Nissan would treat their workers? I wonder how well Mr.
Know
treats his...

It has been awhile, but I still recall the reports on how Toyota
treats
it suppliers in Japan. I am not talking about the happy Toyota
workers
at the Toyota assembly plants. I am talking about the harassed brow
beaten pennies a day worker at Toyota's suppliers.I'll bet Mr. Know
would love that model. Maybe when he get his wish and the "Big Three"
go under, and his only significant Customer is Japan Inc, he'll enjoy
the experience.

Ed

This has little to do with it, as I see it, Ed.

These companies have to be successful financially, like any other
company,.
Their luck may have run bad, but their leadership and elaboration of
their
activities has been poor.

They have been given a second shot at life, courtesy of the US
taxpayers.

They need to step up to the plate, or leave the field.

Yep, a second shot from US and Canadian tax payers. Hope they don't
waste it but after 30+ of dysfunction my guess is they have neither the
culture or leadership to take advantage of it. But, if they took it
seriously they might make it work. Both the management and union need
to
get real, tough, lean, mean and really really want it as lip service BS
isn't going to carry the day any longer.

You do realize that GM has not taken one cent from the Canadian
government
yet, right?

Not sure, but they might not have gotten it all yet. But the $4-5B in
money
is allocated and as good as gone. $760M has already been flushed outright.
I think it has some condition with the union... like no-strike then woosh
down the toilet it goes. Well, if your sitting on your ass for 95% pay at
home for Christmas and January that is very expensive tax payer subsidy.-
Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Subsidized vacation... They should have given the money to the tax
payers to buy cars.. That would have gotten the money to the companies
and cleared their lots, the down side is the Union would have had to
stay at work and build cars instead of going on retreats and playing
monopoly in the break room..
----
I would also bet accumulated vacation is extra and that bench time does not
decrease while on the bench! They might get back to work in time for
vacation, LOL.

You make too much sense. None of the buffoons pandering bailouts gets your
valid point. With the main stream middle class taxpayers income and wealth
value decreasing, and the credit all dried up because they are overextended,
they can't afford GMs vehicles.

Someone in DC and Ottawa has their heads right up their butts.

"Canuck57" wrote in message
...

"80 Knight" nospam wrote in message
...
"Canuck57" wrote in message
...

"HLS" wrote in message
...

"C. E. White" wrote in message
...
Lot of total BS in that letter you seem to like. I think it was
written by a bitter overpaid salesman that failed at his job.

Assembly plants are routinely ranked on productivity by outside
auditors. GM and Ford plants often do better than US Toyota and Nissan
Plants. Unions have certainly gone to excess in some cases, but
without unions (or at least the threat of unions), how do you think
GM, Ford, Toyota and Nissan would treat their workers? I wonder how
well Mr. Know treats his...

It has been awhile, but I still recall the reports on how Toyota
treats it suppliers in Japan. I am not talking about the happy Toyota
workers at the Toyota assembly plants. I am talking about the harassed
brow beaten pennies a day worker at Toyota's suppliers.I'll bet Mr.
Know would love that model. Maybe when he get his wish and the "Big
Three" go under, and his only significant Customer is Japan Inc, he'll
enjoy the experience.

Ed

This has little to do with it, as I see it, Ed.

These companies have to be successful financially, like any other
company,.
Their luck may have run bad, but their leadership and elaboration of
their
activities has been poor.

They have been given a second shot at life, courtesy of the US
taxpayers.

They need to step up to the plate, or leave the field.

Yep, a second shot from US and Canadian tax payers. Hope they don't
waste it but after 30+ of dysfunction my guess is they have neither the
culture or leadership to take advantage of it. But, if they took it
seriously they might make it work. Both the management and union need
to get real, tough, lean, mean and really really want it as lip service
BS isn't going to carry the day any longer.

You do realize that GM has not taken one cent from the Canadian
government yet, right?


Not sure, but they might not have gotten it all yet. But the $4-5B in
money is allocated and as good as gone. $760M has already been flushed
outright. I think it has some condition with the union... like no-strike
then woosh down the toilet it goes. Well, if your sitting on your ass for
95% pay at home for Christmas and January that is very expensive tax payer
subsidy.

GM has not taken any money from the Canadian government as they wish to know
the exact terms of the loan, and the government has not provided those terms
yet.